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Author Topic: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?  (Read 80471 times)

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Polk5440

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #200 on: February 19, 2013, 04:10:14 pm »
0

I tried Goko again today. Goko does not lag for me with Firefox 18 like it did with 17. So I am happy the performance issues were taken care of there. It still crashed once when I was playing Adventures (out of 5 games) and once when loading a multiplayer game (out of 2 games), though.

All the cards are released, I have not had any major problems lately, and I have enjoyed the experience enough to finally make the $40 purchase (using PayPal).


Are the Alchemy cards available now to non-early-adopters?

yes
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bedlam

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #201 on: February 19, 2013, 05:43:08 pm »
0


-If you want "pro" leaderboard, you cannot see what expansions are included in the game, and you most likely end up in a base only game, which you don't want to play.


I wonder if they could program in next to the picture of the person hosting a game a little letter for each of the expansions you might be playing with. "D" for base set, "S" for seaside, etc... This would help to avoid those base only games that many of us don't like playing.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #202 on: February 19, 2013, 06:52:55 pm »
0


-If you want "pro" leaderboard, you cannot see what expansions are included in the game, and you most likely end up in a base only game, which you don't want to play.


I wonder if they could program in next to the picture of the person hosting a game a little letter for each of the expansions you might be playing with. "D" for base set, "S" for seaside, etc... This would help to avoid those base only games that many of us don't like playing.

It also makes it easier for us who do own all the expansions.
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werothegreat

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #203 on: February 24, 2013, 03:38:05 pm »
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Goko now has all current sets, with Alchemy just gone public.  So for those using that as their reason, it is no longer valid.
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Kirian

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #204 on: February 24, 2013, 04:18:00 pm »
+2

Goko now has all current sets, with Alchemy just gone public.  So for those using that as their reason, it is no longer valid.

Yup.  I've been trying to have a mostly-working weekend, so I haven't had the chance to buy and play.  But my boycott is at an end, not that many people will actually care. :)
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Dargone

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #205 on: February 24, 2013, 04:51:13 pm »
0

Goko now has all current sets, with Alchemy just gone public.  So for those using that as their reason, it is no longer valid.

Yeah, and $45 for everything is a steal. I like your videos by the way.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #206 on: February 24, 2013, 04:59:59 pm »
0


-If you want "pro" leaderboard, you cannot see what expansions are included in the game, and you most likely end up in a base only game, which you don't want to play.


I wonder if they could program in next to the picture of the person hosting a game a little letter for each of the expansions you might be playing with. "D" for base set, "S" for seaside, etc... This would help to avoid those base only games that many of us don't like playing.

I think "D" would probably be Dark Ages, but I like your idea. If the letters just indicated which sets the game's creator owns, you wouldn't even need a letter for the base set.
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werothegreat

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #207 on: February 24, 2013, 05:07:38 pm »
0

Goko now has all current sets, with Alchemy just gone public.  So for those using that as their reason, it is no longer valid.

Yeah, and $45 for everything is a steal. I like your videos by the way.

Thank you very much!
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #208 on: February 24, 2013, 10:02:06 pm »
0

I tried Goko again today. Goko does not lag for me with Firefox 18 like it did with 17. So I am happy the performance issues were taken care of there. It still crashed once when I was playing Adventures (out of 5 games) and once when loading a multiplayer game (out of 2 games), though.

All the cards are released, I have not had any major problems lately, and I have enjoyed the experience enough to finally make the $40 purchase (using PayPal).


Are the Alchemy cards available now to non-early-adopters?

Yes
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Agile

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #209 on: February 25, 2013, 04:54:54 pm »
+2

Here are my reasons at the moment (not particularly in any order):

1. Cards - I have access to all the cards prior to DA on Isotropic for free. All things considered $45 for all the cards is a pretty good deal (particularly as I haven't bought them IRL yet), but for now Isotropic is a better option as I am learning the game.

2. More game options - I am still pretty new to Dominion so I am still working on learning the different cards and how to play them in different situations. On Isotropic I can limit or bias automatch selections based on expansion and so far this isn't an option on Goko. So when I played some Goko I would be thrown into a few games full of Dark Ages cards and/or with a lot of cards I'm unfamiliar with, which would make the games a lot harder for me and I can't really ease my way into the different decks like I can on Isotropic. I don't really choose to use the point tracker or veto on Isotropic (I usually automatch with don't care on both settings, so I'm willing to play with them, but don't by default) and some options like this would be nice to have available on Goko.

3. No automatch / smaller userbase - This is obviously a common complaint. Often there aren't many open games at any one point and even if you create one there isn't really any assurance that the player you play will be around your skill level (though of course you can kick them out, it just seems a bit inefficient). The userbase will obviously increase once Goko leaves the beta phase and Isotropic is ended, but everyone will not necessarily migrate over, the amount of cards people have will be variable rather than unified, and there still is not an effective way to match similar-skilled players.

4. User Interface - First, one of my main problems is the in-game chat log. I personally don't really go back and look at my game logs, but that also seems to be an issue. However, I do want to know what is happening in the game and sometimes its really hard to get that on Goko. I want to be able to see what my opponent played and did and sometimes its difficult to tell with the animations either being too fast or too slow. The Goko Log parser looks like its great, though I haven't had the chance to try it yet, but I do to some extent still have a problem that some people may have access to that while others might not, giving the group using it an advantage (even if its the same information), and how its something that should really be implemented into the game itself. Second, it would be nice to have some sort of safety against misclicks like Isotropic has. Sometimes I get impatient and wind up misclicking, I have been Militia'd and thinking it was my turn I have accidently discarded a Witch (secondary complaint, though there are color differences in the aura around the cards from attacks and your turn, it still is somewhat subtle and easy to misclick with) which could be helped by some sort of confirmation quickly, and the other cases that Isotropic seems to defend against. Thirdly, hand organization. Fourth, those avatars?

5. Unreliability - I haven't played Goko as much recently and I have heard that it has been getting better and more reliable (though there are still some complaints of crashing), but I had some trouble with crashing if I had more than a few other windows open in Chrome other than Goko. I saw that there now is rejoining upon disconnecting, but I haven't tested it yet. I see that as a positive step though.

6. Rankings - The rankings on Isotropic seem much more straightforward and there has seemed to be less variation for me in the rankings on Isotropic than on Goko, though part of that may be that Iso is updated daily rather than after every game like Goko. Though the systems are supposed to be similar I feel like sometimes there are ridiculous point swings for me on Goko. I think that I've had some games on Goko that I have won yet lost points (or maybe gained a very, very small amount of points) and I am no expert in the game, just okay and sometimes playing the only game I can really get, which goes back to the smaller userbase and lack of automatch. Its also much harder to understand really where I stand with the rankings. Yes, there is a leaderboard, but thats a lot more relative and the levels on Isotropic, though not all-encompassing, give a more discrete idea of position.

7. Distrust of the company - There have been a lot of complaints about Goko's communication and relation to the community, and though I haven't been around for a lot of it, that is what I have seen so far. The failed beta launch being the premier example. Past that, there seems to often be a lack of communication by Goko with the community and I don't feel totally confident in the extent that they are listening to our concerns. This has been particularly prescient following the departure of a few staff from the company, particularly trisha, who seemed to be more involved in the community. To be fair, they have held some Q&A's and seem to be working on some of the things that this community has looked at. I also in principle dislike secondary currency units instead of just paying in straight dollars (both here on Goko and even things like Xbox live marketplace) and don't like how they just recently upped some of the prices as Alchemy came out, though they do have the right to set prices where they see fit. Some of the problems hurt my confidence in general about the product and my willingness to put down the money for the cards in a virtual format when the platform may or may not be there in the future.

Overall, I do plan to play more on Goko and make a switch when it leaves beta. However, I still have some misgivings and right now I feel like isotropic is simpler and preferable to me at the moment. I will probably wait a bit, but will likely try and buy all the cards at some point, maybe once I gain more confidence in Goko overall.
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hsiale

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #210 on: February 25, 2013, 05:05:43 pm »
+1

I think for learning the game Goko is actually better than Iso - mostly because there are bots. Bots are patient, if you want to take 5 minutes to think midgame, they won't be annoyed.

To avoid getting overwhelmed by cards, I think it's best to go in 3 steps:
- learn basics playing Base,
- get Big Pack of Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity which will keep you busy for some time and learn you a lot as those sets contain many interesting cards,
- get everything else and play the full game.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #211 on: March 03, 2013, 09:54:07 am »
0

Two main reasons:

1 - I dislike the interface a LOT.  To the point where I wouldn't play it even if it was completely free.  If I'm playing a board game online, I want it to cut out the cruft that necessarily comes with IRL play (physically moving cards around the screen, noises, annoying colours and animations etc etc etc), not add to it.  I really, REALLY like the stripped-down, nonsense implementation of Iso; I'm here because I enjoy the mechanics of the game, not the look of it.  Iso puts those foremost, goko does not.

2 - Security concerns.  I've heard enough problems with Goko's security that I just don't trust them with my $$$ (well, specifically with my card details, but whatever).

Add to that a whole host of minor issues, mostly to do with gameplay, speed of play, and the implementation of a number of features, and my general preference for Iso, and my having gotten a little bored with Dominion in general recently, and you get me not being remotely interested in Goko.

When Iso dies, so will my online play of Dominion.  But it's OK, I have Through The Ages.
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bedlam

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #212 on: March 03, 2013, 11:21:49 am »
0

Two main reasons:

2 - Security concerns.  I've heard enough problems with Goko's security that I just don't trust them with my $$$ (well, specifically with my card details, but whatever).


I guess i'll be the first to remind you (and anyone else that lists this as a concern) that Goko never sees your card info, you pay through paypal, which is secure enough.

I'm not trying to convince you to play on goko, your other concerns are valid enough to keep you away if you want to, you just don't need to list security (when it comes to money) as a reason to stay away.
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pst

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #213 on: March 03, 2013, 11:56:47 am »
+1

Also, many current users of Isotropic would not tolerate playing on the first public version of Isotropic. I started playing on Iso in summer 2010, there was no levels/rank of any kind, no automatch, limited to like 20 players on the server, no image mode, no point tracker, no veto mode, no status in the lobby, pretty sure there was no identical starting hands mode, only one lobby, and no game logs.

Imagine how Isotropic would be today if all these incremental improvements had continued! Naturally they more or less stopped after Goko it was clear that Isotopic will disappear soonish anyway.
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blueblimp

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #214 on: March 05, 2013, 02:27:56 am »
0

Honestly I think the reason I'm not playing on Goko currently is that I can't decide whether to attach my Google account to it (for Walled Village). And if I choose wrongly, then I've spent a bunch of money to attach cards to an account I don't want.
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Kirian

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #215 on: March 05, 2013, 03:04:14 am »
0

Also, many current users of Isotropic would not tolerate playing on the first public version of Isotropic. I started playing on Iso in summer 2010, there was no levels/rank of any kind, no automatch, limited to like 20 players on the server, no image mode, no point tracker, no veto mode, no status in the lobby, pretty sure there was no identical starting hands mode, only one lobby, and no game logs.

Imagine how Isotropic would be today if all these incremental improvements had continued! Naturally they more or less stopped after Goko it was clear that Isotopic will disappear soonish anyway.

Except that Isotropic did continue incremental improvements.  For the last two years.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #216 on: March 05, 2013, 03:59:09 am »
0

Honestly I think the reason I'm not playing on Goko currently is that I can't decide whether to attach my Google account to it (for Walled Village). And if I choose wrongly, then I've spent a bunch of money to attach cards to an account I don't want.

I thought they'd sorted that out, and that anyone could get Walled Village now.  At least I've picked that impression up from somewhere (whether here or Goko I couldn't say).
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #217 on: March 05, 2013, 07:16:09 am »
+1

Honestly I think the reason I'm not playing on Goko currently is that I can't decide whether to attach my Google account to it (for Walled Village). And if I choose wrongly, then I've spent a bunch of money to attach cards to an account I don't want.

I thought they'd sorted that out, and that anyone could get Walled Village now.  At least I've picked that impression up from somewhere (whether here or Goko I couldn't say).

For some time Walled Village was obviously free for everyone to get (and I got it during that timeslot), but this probably was a mistake and it was recently returned to the only-Google-state.
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pst

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #218 on: March 05, 2013, 08:30:37 am »
0

Imagine how Isotropic would be today if all these incremental improvements had continued! Naturally they more or less stopped after Goko it was clear that Isotopic will disappear soonish anyway.

Except that Isotropic did continue incremental improvements.  For the last two years.

I'm talking about since last summer. When dougz explained the recent Dark Ages mishap he wrote that he hadn't updated the public server since July until that small recent change which accidentally made him roll out the Dark Ages changes he checked in in August. Isotropic is already excellent as it is, but with "normal" (as earlier) improvements during this time as well it would be even more awesome. That's all.
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DStu

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #219 on: March 06, 2013, 10:42:27 am »
+6

You know, for all your complaining, how many of you have actually played on Goko, and are not just going by what you've heard?

As only one person has complained in this thread, I will just answer this to make it two and justify the plural.


I have played beta till the first "release".  I was not at all satisfied on how this beta has taken place, felt like a little low communication on what their goal is, what they are planning, someone posted something on the forums, and nobody knows if they will fix it, if it is a bug or a feature, if maybe they don't have the resources now and will do it later etc. pp.
Then there was the morning with the severe security reports and the "fine, we will fix this later; now we launch" post, the failed launch and something like $80 for the full product, where I decided to not play there unless something great happens.

And from what I have seen since then, there was nothing that convinced me.  Seeing the videos there is still not a really smooth interface, it's all been posted often enough, speed is not really good (sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow),  matchmaking is still not there, there's been some other don'ttrusttheclientbug after the mess at the launch.  Reaction on feedback on the getsatisfaction seems to be as plentiful as in the beta.  Price is still higher than an AAA game which did not have it's rules already financed by a boardgame version.  Or higher than Wasteland2 and DoubleFine adventure combined.  The problem with the logs had to be "solved" by an browserplugin hacking into their Javascript, the point counter will take the same route, which is not good neither if you want to have an official one nor if you don't want to have a point counter. I don't have the feeling to be the target audience, I actually don't have the impression they have a target audience. I mean, I could accept something like: "We don't have this or thus feature because target is mass market, there, X,Y and Z are more important", but to really go viral it's too expensive.  I mean, I am not a marketing or internet-startup expert, but $45 is not the marginal cost that they have to let me play all cards over other cards, it's probably more like $0.  So if the aim would be to really go viral, either the price would more at $0 than at $45, or (more common), you crossfinance many people that play for $0 by some people that play for $45.  In which case you should have target in mind that pays $45 and polish the product such that this target is pleased.  Which I don't see done, at least not see assuming I'm in this target.

/rant
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 10:47:26 am by DStu »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #220 on: March 06, 2013, 02:11:06 pm »
0

You know, for all your complaining, how many of you have actually played on Goko, and are not just going by what you've heard?

As only one person has complained in this thread, I will just answer this to make it two and justify the plural.


I have played beta till the first "release".  I was not at all satisfied on how this beta has taken place, felt like a little low communication on what their goal is, what they are planning, someone posted something on the forums, and nobody knows if they will fix it, if it is a bug or a feature, if maybe they don't have the resources now and will do it later etc. pp.
Then there was the morning with the severe security reports and the "fine, we will fix this later; now we launch" post, the failed launch and something like $80 for the full product, where I decided to not play there unless something great happens.

And from what I have seen since then, there was nothing that convinced me.  Seeing the videos there is still not a really smooth interface, it's all been posted often enough, speed is not really good (sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow),  matchmaking is still not there, there's been some other don'ttrusttheclientbug after the mess at the launch.  Reaction on feedback on the getsatisfaction seems to be as plentiful as in the beta.  Price is still higher than an AAA game which did not have it's rules already financed by a boardgame version.  Or higher than Wasteland2 and DoubleFine adventure combined.  The problem with the logs had to be "solved" by an browserplugin hacking into their Javascript, the point counter will take the same route, which is not good neither if you want to have an official one nor if you don't want to have a point counter. I don't have the feeling to be the target audience, I actually don't have the impression they have a target audience. I mean, I could accept something like: "We don't have this or thus feature because target is mass market, there, X,Y and Z are more important", but to really go viral it's too expensive.  I mean, I am not a marketing or internet-startup expert, but $45 is not the marginal cost that they have to let me play all cards over other cards, it's probably more like $0.  So if the aim would be to really go viral, either the price would more at $0 than at $45, or (more common), you crossfinance many people that play for $0 by some people that play for $45.  In which case you should have target in mind that pays $45 and polish the product such that this target is pleased.  Which I don't see done, at least not see assuming I'm in this target.

/rant

But, the cost is $0 for the base game, and lots of people new to Dominion will play with Base first and probably gradually buy the expansions at $4 and $7. The $45 price tag is more for those of us who have played on iso for a long time and want everything at once.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #221 on: March 06, 2013, 02:18:39 pm »
0

The problem with the logs had to be "solved" by an browserplugin hacking into their Javascript, the point counter will take the same route, which is not good neither if you want to have an official one nor if you don't want to have a point counter.

I don't think there's a way to prevent point counter plugins, and I certainly don't think there should be a point counter built into the game itself. We've been through all of this before, and if you're playing Dominion (rather than a variant), using a point counter other than your brain is cheating.
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Donald X.

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #222 on: March 06, 2013, 02:45:02 pm »
0

The problem with the logs had to be "solved" by an browserplugin hacking into their Javascript, the point counter will take the same route, which is not good neither if you want to have an official one nor if you don't want to have a point counter.

I don't think there's a way to prevent point counter plugins, and I certainly don't think there should be a point counter built into the game itself. We've been through all of this before, and if you're playing Dominion (rather than a variant), using a point counter other than your brain is cheating.
I'm not strictly against that variant though. It has some baggage that comes with it - matchmaking that takes into account whether or not people are okay with the point counter or demand it or demand not to have it. I don't know if they will add one but it's not out of the question. And as has been pointed out, if they don't someone else will.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #223 on: March 06, 2013, 02:59:08 pm »
0

But, the cost is $0 for the base game, and lots of people new to Dominion will play with Base first and probably gradually buy the expansions at $4 and $7. The $45 price tag is more for those of us who have played on iso for a long time and want everything at once.

But the game is 5 years old.  How many people do you really have that are "new to Dominion" against at least the ones that are familiar with it? And also for the newbies, maybe I'm wrong, but I can't really see people paying $4 for 10 times and every time just thinking "let's play $4 to improve the game".  Either you are hooked, maybe you try one expansion for $7, but after that, either you are really interested in which case you want to have the whole thing, or you are not, in which case you just stay with your base+one expansion+leaching from other players.
Maybe I'm wrong, after all they are the one with the CEO of monetarization, but I can't imagine this gradually "let's pay $4 for it again" really happen very often.

Quote
I don't think there's a way to prevent point counter plugins, and I certainly don't think there should be a point counter built into the game itself. We've been through all of this before, and if you're playing Dominion (rather than a variant), using a point counter other than your brain is cheating.
Yeah, we had this before, my opinion still is that the only way to prevent a point counter in this environment is to have the option for one already in the game, but Donald also said he can imagine Ray not liking this; and now that most of the work (finding the right code that deals with the log) is already done for the log, it would have happend anyway unless the build-in counter tells you everything.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 03:00:13 pm by DStu »
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Donald X.

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #224 on: March 06, 2013, 03:06:20 pm »
+2

But the game is 5 years old.  How many people do you really have that are "new to Dominion" against at least the ones that are familiar with it?
Going by sales of the physical main set, there continue to be plenty of new players.

And also for the newbies, maybe I'm wrong, but I can't really see people paying $4 for 10 times and every time just thinking "let's play $4 to improve the game".  Either you are hooked, maybe you try one expansion for $7, but after that, either you are really interested in which case you want to have the whole thing, or you are not, in which case you just stay with your base+one expansion+leaching from other players.
I don't have all the data here, but I think people are leaning heavily towards buying packages rather than individual sets or halves.

Yeah, we had this before, my opinion still is that the only way to prevent a point counter in this environment is to have the option for one already in the game, but Donald also said he can imagine Ray not liking this; and now that most of the work (finding the right code that deals with the log) is already done for the log, it would have happend anyway unless the build-in counter tells you everything.
It's Jay.

I don't like the general argument some make that "if you can't stop X you should encourage it," but for sure people will have a point counter one way or another. It would be better to include it so that matchmaking can use it. Matchmaking could potentially cover it without including it but I don't see that happening.
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