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Author Topic: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?  (Read 80479 times)

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Grujah

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #175 on: February 11, 2013, 05:05:42 pm »
+1

Just tried going over to Goko.

I quit, reasons.:

-No automatch, finding a game is a pain in the ass - the biggest problem for sure.
-If you want "pro" leaderboard, you cannot see what expansions are included in the game, and you most likely end up in a base only game, which you don't want to play.
-No misclick protection - this makes game so much more frustrating.
-No point counter, I'm too used to that thing.
-Fast mode too slow, very fast too fast. Biggest issue here is not being able to see opponent's moves and choices. This leads to being forced to open log every damn turn.
-UI still wonky - manly cause of ill positioned buttons on top right which makes things too slow/misclicks too easy to do.
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werothegreat

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #176 on: February 11, 2013, 05:15:59 pm »
0

Re: the first two: I'll play with you sometime if you don't mind my recording it.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #177 on: February 11, 2013, 08:33:35 pm »
0

Just tried going over to Goko.

I quit, reasons.:

-No automatch, finding a game is a pain in the ass - the biggest problem for sure.
-If you want "pro" leaderboard, you cannot see what expansions are included in the game, and you most likely end up in a base only game, which you don't want to play.
-No misclick protection - this makes game so much more frustrating.
-No point counter, I'm too used to that thing.
-Fast mode too slow, very fast too fast. Biggest issue here is not being able to see opponent's moves and choices. This leads to being forced to open log every damn turn.
-UI still wonky - manly cause of ill positioned buttons on top right which makes things too slow/misclicks too easy to do.

I agree with you on automatch. And, being someone who does own all the sets, I agree, they should make it easy to tell who owns what cards. And, I do agree with you on the misclick preventation. It isn't the end of the world, but annoying. Also, I would like a point counter. You should PM Dr. Held (is that right, or is his name Keld?) Last I heard, he was working on a point counter extension that works on Goko. And, I do agree about the whole log issue. I can usually track what is happening on super fast, but I sometimes miss something. I usually bring up the log once or twice each game.
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Grujah

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #178 on: February 11, 2013, 09:24:40 pm »
0

Just tried going over to Goko.

I quit, reasons.:

-No automatch, finding a game is a pain in the ass - the biggest problem for sure.
-If you want "pro" leaderboard, you cannot see what expansions are included in the game, and you most likely end up in a base only game, which you don't want to play.
-No misclick protection - this makes game so much more frustrating.
-No point counter, I'm too used to that thing.
-Fast mode too slow, very fast too fast. Biggest issue here is not being able to see opponent's moves and choices. This leads to being forced to open log every damn turn.
-UI still wonky - manly cause of ill positioned buttons on top right which makes things too slow/misclicks too easy to do.

I agree with you on automatch. And, being someone who does own all the sets, I agree, they should make it easy to tell who owns what cards. And, I do agree with you on the misclick preventation. It isn't the end of the world, but annoying. Also, I would like a point counter. You should PM Dr. Held (is that right, or is his name Keld?) Last I heard, he was working on a point counter extension that works on Goko. And, I do agree about the whole log issue. I can usually track what is happening on super fast, but I sometimes miss something. I usually bring up the log once or twice each game.

Log thing is probably cause I'm not used to it.

And dividing players in "rooms" sure doesn't help finding a match..
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flies

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #179 on: February 13, 2013, 10:53:42 am »
+3

It's not merely that Goko costs money.  It's that it costs money to buy something worse than what I already get for free at iso.  Lack of automatch is the main problem; the amount of time it takes to get a game is another big factor.  (I like the interface, except sometimes it's hard to figure out what my opponents did.)  I am a grad student and I don't have much cash laying around to spend on games.

I don't know how much it's just a question of being used to iso and disliking goko merely for being different, but the textyness of iso makes it easier to follow the game.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 10:55:53 am by flies »
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #180 on: February 13, 2013, 12:21:09 pm »
0

Dr Held is on a 3 month tour of Asia.  So I doubt he is going to be hacking on much.
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Jacob marley

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #181 on: February 13, 2013, 12:31:55 pm »
0

Just tried going over to Goko.

I quit, reasons.:

-No automatch, finding a game is a pain in the ass - the biggest problem for sure.
-If you want "pro" leaderboard, you cannot see what expansions are included in the game, and you most likely end up in a base only game, which you don't want to play.
-No misclick protection - this makes game so much more frustrating.
-No point counter, I'm too used to that thing.
-Fast mode too slow, very fast too fast. Biggest issue here is not being able to see opponent's moves and choices. This leads to being forced to open log every damn turn.
-UI still wonky - manly cause of ill positioned buttons on top right which makes things too slow/misclicks too easy to do.

I agree with you on automatch. And, being someone who does own all the sets, I agree, they should make it easy to tell who owns what cards. And, I do agree with you on the misclick preventation. It isn't the end of the world, but annoying. Also, I would like a point counter. You should PM Dr. Held (is that right, or is his name Keld?) Last I heard, he was working on a point counter extension that works on Goko. And, I do agree about the whole log issue. I can usually track what is happening on super fast, but I sometimes miss something. I usually bring up the log once or twice each game.

Log thing is probably cause I'm not used to it.

And dividing players in "rooms" sure doesn't help finding a match..

I agree that the room divisions are a problem.  What I wish is that there is a room (or rooms) reserved for pro matches.  That way at least you don't have to wait through a bunch of non-pro games to get someone playing a pro game.  Of course, auto match would solve this, especially if it is not limited to matching you with players in the same room.

As for the problem of base only games, there are two solutions.  One is simply to live with it, the other is to buy the cards yourself and start your own games. 

However, my experience is that the majority of the time I join someone elses pro game, I get more than just the basic set, so I can accept the occasional basic game as the price of playing free.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #182 on: February 13, 2013, 07:40:52 pm »
0

I think the biggest reason I don't play on goko is the interface. On my turn, I pretty much know what's going on. However, on my opponents turn (especially against AI) all I see is a lots of cards moving around the board and then its my turn again. I look at the log to figure out what my opponent did, and it takes me a full minute to learn that my opponent played an ironmonger and a witch and bought a gold. The logs really need some formatting.
Additionally, whenever some plays militia, I always thinks it's my turn so I try to play my witch. That ends badly. Maybe a warning should be implemented if you're discarding something besides victory cards, curses, or coppers.

These are also my problems with it. It's all UI.

I have animations on fast, because I don't want to waste time and be annoyed by watching the animations. But that means I have to open and close the log every damn turn. I think you'd have to have animations on slow and pay super-close attention to avoid that. Or just not care about what the other players do on your turn. I'm sure lots of casual players don't care, but I play competitively.

That log is way more difficult to read than on isotropic. It's just a wall of text with no color or formating, and lots of unnecessary repetition. Talk about a non-graphical interface! Scrolling up is also incredibly wonky. I find myself using the scroll wheel on my mouse, which doesn't work of course. So you have to grab that scrollbar. But it seems when you first click the scrollbar, you're stuck dragging it, even the next time you open the log? I think you have to click again to un-grab?? Something non-intuitive anyway. Really really annoying stuff.

When you have to click several cards, after each card, the others get a little "activation animation", which is NOT any faster when you set animation to fast. Selecting several cards should be just that: selecting - like on iso. You check the cards, THEN do the thing, discard or whatever. This would be much more convenient, and would save you from accidentally discarding your Witch to a Militia attack because you think it's your turn. Also, trashing each card in turn (with e.g. Chapel) is wrong rules-wise: You trash them all at once. Even if this works correctly on Goko now, it gives the wrong impression to the player: It seems each card is trashed after the other.

More about selecing cards: I played with Schemes (lots of them), and a more-or-less self-drawing deck. With lots of cards in play, I had to select those card slivers. They were not grouped at all. It was impossible to see what I was selecting: the only thing that identified them was a sliver of the card art at the side. When actually selecting a card to Scheme, it moved to the front of the huge line of cards for some reason, but was otherwise not marked. If I wanted to look at a card sliver (to see what card i was), I could do that by pulling it out I think. This did not Scheme it (which is good), but it DID move to the front of the line! So which cards had I actually Schemed? Impossible to tell. A nightmare. Isotropic does this well.

Intuitiveness and chat: When opening the chat window, I find myself clicking in the textbox to start typing there. This works horribly, as I could easily click on a card below the textbox. So even if this is HTML-based, they are using "proprietary" textboxes that work differently than everybody is used to on the web. You can't use Home or End or arrow keys to edit what you write. A typing mistake at the beginning means you have to delete everything you wrote and start over, or just post it anyway. Why..??

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #183 on: February 13, 2013, 09:35:59 pm »
0

I HATE the chat system they use right now. I can't even paste a link. I was going to copy+paste the link to the PPR blog post  to help someone but then I realized something... I CAN NOT PASTE! T.T

I also dislike the fact that I can't ignore/mute someone and if they decide to be a jerk well then... I have to put up with it until the game ends.
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Stefan_k

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #184 on: February 14, 2013, 01:52:54 pm »
0

I gave Goko a try today.

It was fun to play one duel of dark ages. I couldn't the card so I lost it badly but it worked fine.

Second game, I tried to play a three handed game. I played a rat and didn't draw any cards. The other persons started to become annoyed in the chat. I couldn't respond even though i could read the chat. Refreshing the page made me come back to the login screen. Kind of disappointed that they can't handle disconnections.

Stefan
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Insomniac

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #185 on: February 14, 2013, 01:55:23 pm »
+1

I gave Goko a try today.

It was fun to play one duel of dark ages. I couldn't the card so I lost it badly but it worked fine.

Second game, I tried to play a three handed game. I played a rat and didn't draw any cards. The other persons started to become annoyed in the chat. I couldn't respond even though i could read the chat. Refreshing the page made me come back to the login screen. Kind of disappointed that they can't handle disconnections.

Stefan

The update in a few days has diconnects/reconnects handled.
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Stefan_k

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #186 on: February 15, 2013, 02:52:27 am »
0

I gave Goko a try today.

It was fun to play one duel of dark ages. I couldn't the card so I lost it badly but it worked fine.

Second game, I tried to play a three handed game. I played a rat and didn't draw any cards. The other persons started to become annoyed in the chat. I couldn't respond even though i could read the chat. Refreshing the page made me come back to the login screen. Kind of disappointed that they can't handle disconnections.

Stefan

The update in a few days has diconnects/reconnects handled.

Awesome. Where did you found this info?
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Insomniac

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #187 on: February 15, 2013, 10:47:43 am »
0

I gave Goko a try today.

It was fun to play one duel of dark ages. I couldn't the card so I lost it badly but it worked fine.

Second game, I tried to play a three handed game. I played a rat and didn't draw any cards. The other persons started to become annoyed in the chat. I couldn't respond even though i could read the chat. Refreshing the page made me come back to the login screen. Kind of disappointed that they can't handle disconnections.

Stefan

The update in a few days has diconnects/reconnects handled.

Awesome. Where did you found this info?

The private beta with alchemy has it. And has for about a month
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #188 on: February 15, 2013, 11:09:13 am »
0

I gave Goko a try today.

It was fun to play one duel of dark ages. I couldn't the card so I lost it badly but it worked fine.

Second game, I tried to play a three handed game. I played a rat and didn't draw any cards. The other persons started to become annoyed in the chat. I couldn't respond even though i could read the chat. Refreshing the page made me come back to the login screen. Kind of disappointed that they can't handle disconnections.

Stefan

The update in a few days has diconnects/reconnects handled.

Awesome. Where did you found this info?

The private beta with alchemy has it. And has for about a month

It also has a much better store layout.
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Brando Commando

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #189 on: February 15, 2013, 12:35:19 pm »
+1


These are also my problems with it. It's all UI.

I have animations on fast, because I don't want to waste time and be annoyed by watching the animations. But that means I have to open and close the log every damn turn. I think you'd have to have animations on slow and pay super-close attention to avoid that. Or just not care about what the other players do on your turn. I'm sure lots of casual players don't care, but I play competitively.

That log is way more difficult to read than on isotropic. It's just a wall of text with no color or formating, and lots of unnecessary repetition. Talk about a non-graphical interface! Scrolling up is also incredibly wonky. I find myself using the scroll wheel on my mouse, which doesn't work of course. So you have to grab that scrollbar. But it seems when you first click the scrollbar, you're stuck dragging it, even the next time you open the log? I think you have to click again to un-grab?? Something non-intuitive anyway. Really really annoying stuff.


I'm not doing justice to your list, but you're pretty exhaustive, and with each new paragraph I just wonder how this is every going to work if Goko's strategy is to have the player base ask them to fix each and every one of these. These are the kinds of things that make me think when Isotropic goes down I'll just stop playing.

A question to software people...Does anybody have any insight into why Goko has gotten so many of these small things wrong when Isotropic was designed, well, by a guy in a cave with spare parts, etc.? As a non-software-guy, I just don't get how Goko could be biffing so badly when DougZ did it in his spare time.

Honestly, any insights would be fascinating.
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pinkymadigan

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #190 on: February 15, 2013, 12:54:47 pm »
+1


These are also my problems with it. It's all UI.

I have animations on fast, because I don't want to waste time and be annoyed by watching the animations. But that means I have to open and close the log every damn turn. I think you'd have to have animations on slow and pay super-close attention to avoid that. Or just not care about what the other players do on your turn. I'm sure lots of casual players don't care, but I play competitively.

That log is way more difficult to read than on isotropic. It's just a wall of text with no color or formating, and lots of unnecessary repetition. Talk about a non-graphical interface! Scrolling up is also incredibly wonky. I find myself using the scroll wheel on my mouse, which doesn't work of course. So you have to grab that scrollbar. But it seems when you first click the scrollbar, you're stuck dragging it, even the next time you open the log? I think you have to click again to un-grab?? Something non-intuitive anyway. Really really annoying stuff.


I'm not doing justice to your list, but you're pretty exhaustive, and with each new paragraph I just wonder how this is every going to work if Goko's strategy is to have the player base ask them to fix each and every one of these. These are the kinds of things that make me think when Isotropic goes down I'll just stop playing.

A question to software people...Does anybody have any insight into why Goko has gotten so many of these small things wrong when Isotropic was designed, well, by a guy in a cave with spare parts, etc.? As a non-software-guy, I just don't get how Goko could be biffing so badly when DougZ did it in his spare time.

Honestly, any insights would be fascinating.

My thinking is talent level. 10 entry level programmers are not the same as 1 good programmer. I doubt Goko is using entry level, but all the same, I think if you are going to be breaking new ground (building an HTML5 gaming platform) you really need a high caliber team.

As for the simple things that they miss on, that's definitely an experience thing, in my opinion. You can get a great coder to work on your UI, but if he's not a UI guy, he's probably going to make some pretty obvious mistakes.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #191 on: February 15, 2013, 05:14:48 pm »
0


These are also my problems with it. It's all UI.

I have animations on fast, because I don't want to waste time and be annoyed by watching the animations. But that means I have to open and close the log every damn turn. I think you'd have to have animations on slow and pay super-close attention to avoid that. Or just not care about what the other players do on your turn. I'm sure lots of casual players don't care, but I play competitively.

That log is way more difficult to read than on isotropic. It's just a wall of text with no color or formating, and lots of unnecessary repetition. Talk about a non-graphical interface! Scrolling up is also incredibly wonky. I find myself using the scroll wheel on my mouse, which doesn't work of course. So you have to grab that scrollbar. But it seems when you first click the scrollbar, you're stuck dragging it, even the next time you open the log? I think you have to click again to un-grab?? Something non-intuitive anyway. Really really annoying stuff.


I'm not doing justice to your list, but you're pretty exhaustive, and with each new paragraph I just wonder how this is every going to work if Goko's strategy is to have the player base ask them to fix each and every one of these. These are the kinds of things that make me think when Isotropic goes down I'll just stop playing.

A question to software people...Does anybody have any insight into why Goko has gotten so many of these small things wrong when Isotropic was designed, well, by a guy in a cave with spare parts, etc.? As a non-software-guy, I just don't get how Goko could be biffing so badly when DougZ did it in his spare time.

Honestly, any insights would be fascinating.

My thinking is talent level. 10 entry level programmers are not the same as 1 good programmer. I doubt Goko is using entry level, but all the same, I think if you are going to be breaking new ground (building an HTML5 gaming platform) you really need a high caliber team.

As for the simple things that they miss on, that's definitely an experience thing, in my opinion. You can get a great coder to work on your UI, but if he's not a UI guy, he's probably going to make some pretty obvious mistakes.

It also helps that DougZ was very familiar with the game.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #192 on: February 15, 2013, 06:58:18 pm »
0

Also, Isotropic doesnt have to deal with any of the fancy graphics and UI and AI and all those things.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #193 on: February 15, 2013, 08:00:39 pm »
+9

Also, many current users of Isotropic would not tolerate playing on the first public version of Isotropic. I started playing on Iso in summer 2010, there was no levels/rank of any kind, no automatch, limited to like 20 players on the server, no image mode, no point tracker, no veto mode, no status in the lobby, pretty sure there was no identical starting hands mode, only one lobby, and no game logs.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #194 on: February 16, 2013, 07:39:39 pm »
+2

Also, many current users of Isotropic would not tolerate playing on the first public version of Isotropic. I started playing on Iso in summer 2010, there was no levels/rank of any kind, no automatch, limited to like 20 players on the server, no image mode, no point tracker, no veto mode, no status in the lobby, pretty sure there was no identical starting hands mode, only one lobby, and no game logs.

I played on isotropic when all of these things weren't there yet, except image mode. I remember I thought it was several magnitudes better than BSW. And I'm certain I would think it was better than Goko too.

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #195 on: February 17, 2013, 03:09:00 pm »
0

I liked it a lot more than BSW too. My point was that there are a decent number of things people want to see in Goko that weren't in Iso from the start; it takes time to get in all the things people want, and Goko's been working at that.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #196 on: February 17, 2013, 03:56:22 pm »
0

At the time I started playing on Iso, the main thing Iso had over BSW was the cards.  BSW had something like 8 cards from some (not all) of the expansions.  Iso had them all.  Now, of course, Iso has a ton of things that are better... many of which Goko are now (theoretically) working on.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #197 on: February 18, 2013, 08:30:49 am »
0

Also, Isotropic doesnt have to deal with any of the fancy graphics and UI and AI and all those things.

That's a poor excuse. The graphics are NOT fancy or difficult to code. These are very routine things to deal with. 2D UI is pretty well established as to how it should work, and how you are supposed to put things together programming wise.
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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #198 on: February 19, 2013, 03:44:07 pm »
0

I tried Goko again today. Goko does not lag for me with Firefox 18 like it did with 17. So I am happy the performance issues were taken care of there. It still crashed once when I was playing Adventures (out of 5 games) and once when loading a multiplayer game (out of 2 games), though.

All the cards are released, I have not had any major problems lately, and I have enjoyed the experience enough to finally make the $40 purchase (using PayPal).
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Kirian

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Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« Reply #199 on: February 19, 2013, 03:50:00 pm »
0

I tried Goko again today. Goko does not lag for me with Firefox 18 like it did with 17. So I am happy the performance issues were taken care of there. It still crashed once when I was playing Adventures (out of 5 games) and once when loading a multiplayer game (out of 2 games), though.

All the cards are released, I have not had any major problems lately, and I have enjoyed the experience enough to finally make the $40 purchase (using PayPal).


Are the Alchemy cards available now to non-early-adopters?
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