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Author Topic: Bureaucrat Success!  (Read 2687 times)

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NinjaBus

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Bureaucrat Success!
« on: June 17, 2011, 12:37:12 am »
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While deservedly ranked as the worst 4$ card in the entire game, I actually managed to play a set where they worked beautifully. I'm not exactly sure if they add anything besides more random luck into a game where your opponent goes bishop, as they can as easily save an estate for next's turns bishop as they can deny one. Either way, it worked out.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201106/16/game-20110616-164006-68b51b3c.html

While amusing, we both agreed that it was helped along by dumb luck (Check out turn 15) and poor draws on my opponents part.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 01:04:19 am »
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I actually think Bureacrat is extremely underrated, and while it's not even a good card at all, I don't know that it's more than slightly below average. There are a lot of things it works with, though it seems that with ever new set, it seems it gets less and less likely that it'll be a good card a) because there are more good 4s to compete with, and b)wherein silver itself is increasingly less important.
But I think it compares pretty decently to Explorer, which is admittedly a pretty horrid $5

tlloyd

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 01:09:54 am »
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Every card has its moments. I played a game recently where the Explorer saved my bacon in a big way. Unlike Laboratory, which is incredibly straightforward and works along with virtually any strategy, cards like Explorer (and to a lesser extent Bureaucrat - in my opinion) take a certain amount of cleverness to determine when and how to use them. I find that much more interesting and good for the game of Dominion in general. Who would want to play if every combo or strategy was obvious and universally strong or weak?
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chwhite

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 01:33:46 am »
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I agree that Bureaucrat is probably a better card than Explorer- I sometimes buy it in Gardens games, if nothing else.  Of course, Explorer is one of the two cards (along with Thief) that I basically never buy at all, so that's not exactly high praise. 

I was beaten once by someone who used Explorer to power a Duke rush, but I have never, ever managed to use it effectively myself.  And Thief is as far as I'm concerned the worst card in the game by a wide margin.  It's not even worth buying in 4p.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 01:39:29 am by chwhite »
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To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

tlloyd

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 03:29:43 am »
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Ever tried using thief in a Chapel game with no strong +coin actions?
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DG

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2011, 07:27:18 am »
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I'm happy with bureaucrats and explorers. I don't use them very often at all, but when I do they're typically strong and do well. I also think people underestimate the bag of gold prize and trading posts.
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theory

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 08:47:24 am »
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I'm happy with bureaucrats and explorers. I don't use them very often at all, but when I do they're typically strong and do well. I also think people underestimate the bag of gold prize and trading posts.
He speaketh the truth:

DG's baseline winning rate: 1.36 0.04
Win rate given Bcrat, Explorer avail: 1.44 0.13, 1.38 0.13
Frequency gaining Bcrat, Explorer when avail: 21.7%, 33.2%
Win rate with: 1.51 0.29, 1.45 0.22
Win rate without: 1.42 0.14   ,    1.33 0.16   
Effect with: 2.24, 1.37
Effect without: 0.07,   -0.53
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guided

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2011, 10:39:44 am »
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Chiming in to agree that Bureaucrat is definitely not the worst $4 card. As I said in another thread yesterday, it's just difficult to recognize situations where it's strong.
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Silverback

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 10:06:11 am »
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okay, I know that small decks are usually better.
But then I saw this game where one player spammed coppers with talismans and against mountebanks to return them to his hand with counting house (you remember?)
Are there possibly situations, where spamming is a viable option? Bureaucrat into Duchy-Rush comes to mind. What do you think?
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drg

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 04:56:25 am »
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Bureaucrat definitely has its uses - especially if there's a useful victory/action or victory/treasure card in play, or if you're playing an attrition game with ambassadors + any village and can actually use the silvers while making them put their estates back.
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Silverback

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Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2011, 06:28:35 am »
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Yeah, but what about a spamming strategy?
If you can trash, you build a small deck with good cards, that gets shuffled a lot.
If you can't trash, you build medium sized deck with filter cards like warehouse or cellar to cycle faster and to get past your crap.

But I was thinking about a strategy that doesnt care about deck size or shuffling. If the average quality of your deck is high enough, those aspects shouldn't be an issue. Even going green doesnt hurt such a deck as much.

It dont know if it's viable, but it could work.
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