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Author Topic: How can he be getting Peddlers this fast?  (Read 1563 times)

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zahlman

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How can he be getting Peddlers this fast?
« on: December 21, 2012, 01:34:34 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/20/game-20121220-223032-97ed1b3e.html

I open 5/2 on a board with Witch and still get crushed. I'm throwing the Curses at him right away and he still manages to build a Peddler stack ending in a couple of Plats that just doesn't even care. Meanwhile I just can't seem to get any economy going, ever.

I don't even.
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dondon151

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Re: How can he be getting Peddlers this fast?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 01:53:37 am »
+1

Well, so without going into a deep analysis, it's rather self-defeating to hand your opponent Curses and then buy a Bishop that lets your opponent trash them.
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zahlman

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Re: How can he be getting Peddlers this fast?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 02:38:29 am »
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How am I supposed to get any cycling of my own then, though? Anyway, by the time he'd grabbed the Peddlers, I'd only gotten to play Bishop twice, and he only trashed on one of them.
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Asklepios

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Re: How can he be getting Peddlers this fast?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 04:03:01 am »
+1

Difficult one to analyse, as it was a complex approach by both players rather than a single path to victory, and Black Market makes it asymmetrical.

Broadly though I'd say the following:

Spice Merchant is going to be better than Bishop at the goal of creating a Peddler based engine, as Spice Merchant draws cards when it trashes, and provides the curcial +buy when you hit that point. However Bishop I would say has its role and ought to be bought at some stage as it will clear out the estates and let the Peddlers be turned into heaps of VP.

Native Village, of course, is widely recognised as a card that slows your overall tempo, and takes a lot of carefulness to get use out of. If you're trying to rush towards Peddlers and large amounts of $ from peddlers, then I would expect each buy of Native Village to slow this progress.

With a 3/4 split I personally would have gone for Spice Merchant / Silver, though I think Black Market was a valid choice because of the strength of some of the BM-deck cards.
With a 5/2 split, I think Witch was definitely sensible, but I'd personally have been more tempted by Witch / Haven than Witch / NV. Why? Well, examine your Turn 4, for example, and what would have happened had the NV been a Haven. I'd even say that Witch/nothing might have been good, especially as you quickly acquired 2 witches, and 2 witches + BM could have been quite fast (though I suspect, not fast enough for a Colony game).
Of course, I see that you were going for the small chance of having NV and 2 witches played in one turn...

Ultimately though, I think that the reason your opponent started running away with Peddlers is because he got there first. Once you've got a Peddler or two its much easier to play a sufficient chain to bring down the price of future peddlers, then its all about how many buys you can generate. His buys were more focused towards generating buys and thinning the deck, hence he won the race.
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DG

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Re: How can he be getting Peddlers this fast?
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 05:23:18 am »
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You could have got three peddlers yourself by turn 7 if you'd bought a worker's village instead of the bishop. In this sort of game, if your opponent is taking curses to get the peddlars he'll have nowhere to go if you get your share of the peddlers.
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dondon151

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Re: How can he be getting Peddlers this fast?
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 05:35:07 pm »
+3

How am I supposed to get any cycling of my own then, though?

How does Bishop improve your cycling more than it improves your opponent's?

But you know, you don't get to see the effects of improved cycling until your next shuffle, and the Peddlers go fast. Use Spice Merchant. If you can both win the Curse split and the Peddler split, the Spice Merchant will prove to be far less useful to your opponent, who will have used it to trash a bunch of money-generating cards out of his deck.

You also seem to have the strange impression that a deck that only has a couple of Curses will have trouble picking up Peddlers. But he only has 1 Curse in his deck until turn 7, which won't prevent him from chaining cantrip action cards.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 05:38:34 pm by dondon151 »
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