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[ShinKyo]

Just a simply idea which comes in my mind. I have some versions. Which would be most attractive?

Forfeit - Treasure - $3 (v1)
Worth $0
When you play this, you may trash a card in play.
If you do: +$1

No use if you don't want to trash anything, boring?

Forfeit - Treasure - $3/4 (v2)
Worth $1
When you play this, you may trash a card in play.
If you do: +$1

Probably too strong at $3 compared with Loan but maybe also at $4.

Forfeit - Treasure - $5 (v3)
Worth $1
When you play this, you may trash a card you have in play or
choose a card which you would discard from play this turn and put it on your deck.
If you trash a card: +$1

Really strong as Trasher and 'Scheme', maybe too much.

[Sakako]

I like the first one, but make it "trash another card in play" to avoid timing issues, or something like that.

[Tables]

The first looks good, it's probably considerably better than loan - it's more likely to hit early, and by the time you don't want it anymore, it trashes itself.

The second looks too good. It's like a Silver for a while which clears out your coppers, and near the end of the game either becomes a copper, or trashes itself. I think it'd be fine at $5, but maybe a little weak.

The third seems better at $5, although it's complex enough that I would be hesitant to say much without playtesting it first.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I think you need to compare some of these to Counterfeit.

[cluckyb]

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

[Jack Rudd]

Jack Rudd plays a Forfeit...
...trashing ShinKyo's Wharf from the play area.

[sudgy]

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

This is a treasure, you couldn't play more actions after playing it.

[eHalcyon]

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

This is a treasure, you couldn't play more actions after playing it.

Black Market.

[mail-mi]

Jack Rudd plays a Forfeit...
...trashing ShinKyo's Wharf from the play area.

Agreed. There should be some clause about this.

[sudgy]

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

This is a treasure, you couldn't play more actions after playing it.

Black Market.

Ah, didn't think of that...

[ShinKyo]

Jack Rudd plays a Forfeit...
...trashing ShinKyo's Wharf from the play area.

Oh yeah, that's not what I want. My wording was not exact enough.

I like the first one, but make it "trash another card in play" to avoid timing issues, or something like that.

It should be possibly to trash the card itself like to put a scheme with the scheme back. So you get a one shot silver at the end.
I think I choose my second version (with new wording):

Forfeit - Treasure - $4
Worth $1
When you play this, you may trash a card you have in play and would discard this turn.
If you do: +$1

Weaker version, not self-trashing:

Forfeit - Treasure - $4
Worth $1
When you play this, you may trash another card you have in play and would discard this turn.
If you do: +$1

At the beginning the card is surely better than silver but later it could be only a copper if you don't want to trash anything but keeping it for later. And a copper for $4 balance the strong starting effect. Also you cannot start with double-Forfeit which is important and it don't trashes estates und curses anyway.

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

How does it works? Please give me an example. If it's possible then I have to change something although it's really unlikely to get such a combo started.

[sudgy]

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

How does it works? Please give me an example. If it's possible then I have to change something although it's really unlikely to get such a combo started.

He doesn't have an example, he's just saying that you might be able to.  But Graverobber couldn't take King's Courts out of the trash, and if you played a Bridge-like card before hand you couldn't get the black market...

[cluckyb]

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

How does it works? Please give me an example. If it's possible then I have to change something although it's really unlikely to get such a combo started.

He doesn't have an example, he's just saying that you might be able to.  But Graverobber couldn't take King's Courts out of the trash, and if you played a Bridge-like card before hand you couldn't get the black market...

Good point, I had forgotten that KC cost too much to pull out of the trash. In that case you can't go infinitely as if you use throne rooms you can't get a net profit of cards from the trash (play throne room, play grave robber, save throne room, save grave robber...) With KC I wasn't able to convince myself it wasn't impossible.

[SirPeebles]

You could play a highway, fish out the king's court, then use a black market and this card to trash the highway, allowing you to fish out black market.

[ShinKyo]

Please, can somebody tell me what benefit do I have if I can build an infinite combo with the Forfeit? I mean, I also can play a Secret Chamber infinite but that would change nothing for my turn. Only if the combo can generate more and more valuable things it would be bad. I can't figure out what problem could be there.

[sudgy]

The main problem would be you could keep on buying things and three-pile the game.

[ShinKyo]

The main problem would be you could keep on buying things and three-pile the game.

Well, how could I do this exactly? I have limited actions and buys and with the BlackMarket I could only buy from the special pile. Please again, explain me step by step how this could be possible. I'm obviously too dumb to catch it, sorry!

[Tables]

There really isn't an issue with it, you can ignore that critisicm really. Even if an infinite chain is possible, I personally can't see it and at minimum, we're talking about a combo that requires 5 or 6 different specific cards (this, Procession, King's Court, Black Market, Counterfeit, probably Throne Room, plus a drawing card). I mean with that many cards specified we can empty the supply in about 8-9 turns!

This card can lead to interesting tricks not currently possible in the game. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Imagine if people took this attitude to real cards, Donald couldn't publish anything new. 'Woah Procession lets you trash a card from play and gain something, this could lead to infinite turns, we should just ban it permanently now!'

[ShinKyo]

There really isn't an issue with it, you can ignore that critisicm really. Even if an infinite chain is possible, I personally can't see it and at minimum, we're talking about a combo that requires 5 or 6 different specific cards (this, Procession, King's Court, Black Market, Counterfeit, probably Throne Room, plus a drawing card). I mean with that many cards specified we can empty the supply in about 8-9 turns!

This card can lead to interesting tricks not currently possible in the game. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Imagine if people took this attitude to real cards, Donald couldn't publish anything new. 'Woah Procession lets you trash a card from play and gain something, this could lead to infinite turns, we should just ban it permanently now!'

Thanks Tables!
That's what I also thought. Card ideas of players are much stronger criticized than Donald's finished cards would ever be. Many ideas was disliked before they came out as a similar official card. And I really can't understand why so many players 'hate' Fan Cards even if they are verified by the community long time.
My last two versions:
V1: Only possible to trash another card and not itself. So one Forfeit would stay over. I think $4 should fit. Maybe it's quite a bit stronger than moneylender (but not always and thats important -> Throneroom+Moneylender+2 Coppers), but far from strong enough for $5.

Forfeit - Treasure - $4
Worth $1
When you play this, you may trash another card you have in play and would discard this turn.
If you do: +$1

V2: Extra Bonus, if you trash an action card (which is rarely done compared to trashing coppers) -> this means a gold if you trash an old shabby sea hag.

Forfeit - Treasure - $5
Worth $1
When you play this, you may trash another card you have in play and would discard this turn.
If you do: +$1
If it is an Action card: +$1

[sudgy]

V2: Extra Bonus, if you trash an action card (which is rarely done compared to trashing coppers) -> this means a gold if you trash an old shabby sea hag.

Forfeit - Treasure - $5
Worth $1
When you play this, you may trash another card you have in play and would discard this turn.
If you do: +$1
If it is an Action card: +$1

I've had cards swindled to me that I didn't want (but still played anyway).