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[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Welcome to Blitz Mafia VIII: Veterans and Friends (Old or New)

READ THIS POST IN ITS ENTIRETY TO ENTER!


A spectator QT is available - just PM the moderator.

This game will use the hidden democracy method to determine lynches when votes are tied at the deadline.  This means that if Player X and Y are tied at deadline, I lock the thread, EVERYONE sends me a PM of which player they are voting for (X or Y). The player that receives the most this way is lynched. If neither player has a majority, no lynch occurs. The results of the vote are made public afterwards, and are useful information.

Setup Information (Less Pressure), but different.  Changes in red below.

3 Mafia Goons
3 Vanilla Townies
2 Innocent Children
2 Masons

Mechanics:

This game is Nightless.
This game uses a White Flag: town needs to lynch any two Mafia Goons to win.
Mafia have daytalk.
Masons have daytalk.
When the first Mafia Goon is lynched, the killed mafia player gets a return kill on a player of their choice. This choice shall be delivered to the mod immediately upon the mafia player's demise.
Innocent Children are announced at the start of the game.

I would like to encourage anyone that has been considering playing for the first time to give it a try.  This version plays in about 3 real-life days, so you can experience the game without investing weeks of your time.  We welcome new players (and new forum members) to join us.  Be forewarned however, the game can be addicting.

If you are signing up, confirm in your sign-up post that the following statements are true for you:
a) you have read the ENTIRETY of the opening post
b) you understand the setup and agree to the rules and the information in the opening post.
Without such specific language in your sign-up post, you will not be signed up.


Players (make sure you followed the rules to sign up, you may not be in when you think you are):
1 - Eevee
2 - Insomniac
3 - Ashersky
4 - Dsell Lynched Day 1, Vanilla Townie
5 - Destierro
6 - Robz888
7 - Galzria Lynched Day 2,  Vanilla Townie
8 - Jimmm

Backup Mods: Archetype, Shraeye


Selected waypoints:

Day 1 start:  http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6050.msg159666#msg159666
Day 2 start:  http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6050.msg161512#msg161512

Mafia QT:        http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/BfHSydaqWMJQ
Mason QT:       http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FzfdCvc2RCn
Spectator QT:  http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/AVaetMd2iFe


Blitz Mafia Ruleset Changes in RED BECAUSE RED GOES FASTER

Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage at any time. Masons may talk at any time in their QT.
3. There are no nights.
4. Dead players cannot post in QTs, other than the spectator one.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1.Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched.
1b.  If there is a tie at deadline, THE HIDDEN DEMOCRACY METHOD WILL BE UTILIZED (see above).
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight, UNTIL THE THREAD IS LOCKED.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may NOT Vote: No Lynch.
7. This game will have 24 HOUR deadlines.  If a player does not have a simple majority at deadline, the player with most votes currently on them will be lynched, and the game will go into twilight.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night venge kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game. BEFORE SIGNING UP, BE ADVISED THIS IS MY FIRST GAME AS MODERATOR.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
  
• Newbie Guide
  
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
  
• Mafia Theory

TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.

[Robz888]

In.

[Eevee]

don eevee, reporting for duty.

[Insomniac]

IN

[Destierro]

I'll play, i never have before however.

[Eevee]

I'll play, i never have before however.

Awesome, welcome!

[Archetype]

I'll play, i never have before however.

Oh hey, new guy. Welcome!

I'd be willing to co-mod SFS.

[yuma]

/follow

[Archetype]

hah! You guys are going to be /in...

[Captain_Frisk]

In depending on start date

[Captain_Frisk]

In depending on start date

Oppose mason though

[Archetype]

hah! You guys are NOT going to be /in...

FTFM

[Dsell]

In!

[Eevee]

Have read the OP too!

[Eevee]

Have read the OP too!

Also understand and agree with the rules. One clarifying question though, no unique votes this time?

[yuma]

I have read the OP and understand the rules, but I am only going to /follow the game (for interest and stat keeping purposes as well)

[Eevee]

I also think SfS will make a great mod.

[ashersky]

In if there's space.  I know the rules.

[ashersky]

Yeah, I think I was #8.

[Eevee]

Yeah, I think I was #8.

I think you were 3rd.

:)

[Captain_Frisk]

I have read the rules, but I don't need them because I make my own.  When does it start?

[Insomniac]

Have read the entire post in its entirety, reccommend you remove the [/quote] tag at the end

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Have read the OP too!

Also understand and agree with the rules. One clarifying question though, no unique votes this time?

Congrats, Eevee, you are the first contestant, for having successfully complied with both confirming statements.  Many others have come close, but have not yet succeeded.

No unique votes.  I worry a little about that system being gamed, and I proved today in ZM7 its easy to screw up the formatting on vote counts.  Since this is my first mod, I wanted to make it easier.

Thoughts on start date?

[ashersky]

I read and understand and agree.

[Captain_Frisk]

Have read the OP too!

Also understand and agree with the rules. One clarifying question though, no unique votes this time?

Congrats, Eevee, you are the first contestant.

No unique votes.  I worry a little about that system being gamed, and I proved today in ZM7 its easy to screw up the formatting on vote counts.  Since this is my first mod, I wanted to make it easier.

Thoughts on start date?

I need it to start pretty much tomorrow, or next week.

[Dsell]

Have read the OP too!

Also understand and agree with the rules. One clarifying question though, no unique votes this time?

Congrats, Eevee, you are the first contestant.

No unique votes.  I worry a little about that system being gamed, and I proved today in ZM7 its easy to screw up the formatting on vote counts.  Since this is my first mod, I wanted to make it easier.

Thoughts on start date?

I need it to start pretty much tomorrow, or next week.

I vote tomorrow, because I'm not playing Mafia on Christmas.

[Eevee]

Just give me my pm.

No unique votes is fine with me, it was a arbitrary anyways and a lot of work for the mod.

[ashersky]

Have read the OP too!

Also understand and agree with the rules. One clarifying question though, no unique votes this time?

Congrats, Eevee, you are the first contestant.

No unique votes.  I worry a little about that system being gamed, and I proved today in ZM7 its easy to screw up the formatting on vote counts.  Since this is my first mod, I wanted to make it easier.

Thoughts on start date?

I need it to start pretty much tomorrow, or next week.

Now is good.

[ashersky]

Just give me my pm.

No unique votes is fine with me, it was a arbitrary anyways and a lot of work for the mod.

Yes, yes it is.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Ok guys, I'm a hard ass.  Lots of you are 1/3 of the way there, some 2/3, but only Eevee has read and dealt with the OP.  It's a simple 3 step process.

a) in
b) confirm
c) confirm

The three elements don't even have to be in the same post, but that would make my life easier, and be much safer for you.

[Insomniac]

Lol  kk SFS I also understand the setup and rules.

[Dsell]

Ok sorry, yes, I read all of the original post and understand it and want in. I even read that bit before, I just thought it was a formality for those who've dealt with these types of games before.

[Archetype]

I'd recommend just starting it now.

Or tomorrow may work too. Like Dsell said, I don't plan on doing Mafia on Christmas (I'm Christian, sue me).

[ashersky]

I read and understand and agree.

This must count.

[Destierro]

I've read the rules and I got it. Advocating tomorrow start.

[Captain_Frisk]

I have inner and read.  If I have to agree to them... Well tough crap.

[Robz888]

I have read the rules and agree to A and B. Although I am hurt you didn't auto-include me.

[shraeye]

Tag.

[Captain_Frisk]

Are we launching today?

[Galzria]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

[Eevee]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

[jotheonah]

I would like to /in but I am travelling home this weekend and can't guarantee sustained access.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I have inner and read.  If I have to agree to them... Well tough crap.

If I have offended you in some way with the circumstances of ZM7 or the subsequent discussion, it was not my intention, and I apologize.  I believe we simply have differing viewpoints on the claiming topic, and I have no issue with that or with you.

That being said, I find comments like:

I have read the rules, but I don't need them because I make my own.

and

I have inner and read.  If I have to agree to them... Well tough crap.

to be at best, unwelcoming to other (especially new) players, and at worst, possibly misrepresenting the person I believe you to be. Don't make yourself into schoolyard bully.

Please know that you are MOST welcome in this game, but to get in, you have to follow procedure, and you've not done so. If you don't like that, well, tough crap. If we need to continue this discussion, let's do it through PMs.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I have read the rules and agree to A and B. Although I am hurt you didn't auto-include me.

I am trying to eliminate situations that potentially affect the outcome or integrity of the game, especially after gamestart.  Look at Grujah's comment about vengekills in ZM7, and that's not the first example.  If you want other's, Archetype and I will be happy to PM you a large one.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

Thats the spirit.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

As of this post, there are 2 spots left. I'll be out for a few hours, but if we get two more, we will start today.  Days can be lengthened to accommodate the weekend and/or Christmas V/LA if necessary, and since Monday is Christmas Eve, that may be a factor as well.

[Galzria]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

Thats the spirit.

If I'm /in, I've implicitly agreed.

[Eevee]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

Thats the spirit.

If I'm /in, I've implicitly agreed.

The difference between implicit and explicit is enormous though!

[Captain_Frisk]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

Thats the spirit.

If I'm /in, I've implicitly agreed.

Exactly.

[Galzria]

As of this post, there are 2 spots left. I'll be out for a few hours, but if we get two more, we will start today.  Days can be lengthened to accommodate the weekend and/or Christmas V/LA if necessary, and since Monday is Christmas Eve, that may be a factor as well.

That's why we gotta rush it. Let's do 12 hour days! Super-Blitz! Go!

I kid. But I think we can finish by the weekend if we start today. D2 on Thursday, D3 if needed Friday.

[Jimmmmm]

Sorry guys, Blitz VII has totally killed these games for me. Too stressful. I'm swearing off Blitz games.

/in

[Captain_Frisk]

So Galz, do you want to cave and /in so we can get this thing started?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

Thats the spirit.

If I'm /in, I've implicitly agreed.

The difference between implicit and explicit is enormous though!

Exactly

[Jimmmmm]

If there's no space, I'm happy to try my hand at co-modding.

[Galzria]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

Thats the spirit.

If I'm /in, I've implicitly agreed.

The difference between implicit and explicit is enormous though!

Isn't inferring my agreement through my /in enough?  When you go to a sporting event, and pay to park, do you sign a waiver saying that the owners of the car park are not responsible for the contents in your car? No. But if something happens it's understood by default that you agreed to any and all risks when you choose to park your vehicle there.

[Eevee]

SfS's game, SfS's rules.

[Voltgloss]

I have read the entirety of the opening post.
I understand the setup and agree to the rules and information in the opening post.

I am NOT /inning as a player though, as playing blitz is not conducive for my schedule.  But, I am more than happy to serve as backup-backup mod.

[Galzria]

So Galz, do you want to cave and /in so we can get this thing started?

I already did!

[Eevee]

If the owner of the stadium said you need to sign a waiver or you can't park there, wouldn't you?

[Captain_Frisk]

If there's no space, I'm happy to try my hand at co-modding.

I think you're going to get my space.

[Galzria]

SfS's game, SfS's rules.

Psh, lame comeback scum.

Vote: Eevee

And yes, my fully reading the rules, then choosing to /in, constitutes my agreement to them.

[Galzria]

If the owner of the stadium said you need to sign a waiver or you can't park there, wouldn't you?

Yes! But in that case I wouldn't actually read it, as it's boring and I've already agreed to it by choosing to park there anyway.

[Voltgloss]

People who are bristling at SFS's sign-in procedure:  It is clearly an effort by SFS to make sure that all players have read the rules in their entirety, and thus complied with the sign-in instructions "buried" in the middle of the rules.  We have a history of players NOT reading the rules of a game before participating, and it's never a good thing when it happens.

This isn't about waivers, or implicit/explicit consent, or whether you philosophically agree that the setup is balanced, or anything like that.  This is a safeguard against people saying "What's a vengekill?" two-thirds of the way through Day 1.  (No offense Grujah, but you're the most recent and blatant example.)

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

[Jimmmmm]

In the event that there's space for me, I read the whole OP and understand and agree to and will abide by and fully endorse and will defend to the death the rules of this game.

[Captain_Frisk]

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

Thats a shame, because you're my favorite mod, and I'll /out of all of those games if you don't think that I can read the rules.

[Jimmmmm]

If this doesn't work, I suppose the next step would be to require each entrant to rewrite the rules in their own words.

[Galzria]

People who are bristling at SFS's sign-in procedure:  It is clearly an effort by SFS to make sure that all players have read the rules in their entirety, and thus complied with the sign-in instructions "buried" in the middle of the rules.  We have a history of players NOT reading the rules of a game before participating, and it's never a good thing when it happens.

This isn't about waivers, or implicit/explicit consent, or whether you philosophically agree that the setup is balanced, or anything like that.  This is a safeguard against people saying "What's a vengekill?" two-thirds of the way through Day 1.  (No offense Grujah, but you're the most recent and blatant example.)

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

I don't think anybody is bristling at them. Well, maybe CF. I'm just bored and waiting for it to start, and trolling Eevee in the meantime. I DID say that I had fully read the rules when I signed up, after all.

[Eevee]

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

Thats a shame, because you're my favorite mod, and I'll /out of all of those games if you don't think that I can read the rules.

Lol. It's obviously nothing personal against anyone, no one is saying YOU wouldn't know the rules, it just covers all the angles so people don't have to start lying about not knowing some of the rules and stuff. Game just works better if everyone knows the rules is all. Why is this such a big deal? I would have missed unique votes not being in effect in this game if SfS didn't make me read the rules.

[Eevee]

Everyone likes bullying poor Eevee though!

[Eevee]

My least lurky pre-game ever.

[Galzria]

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

Thats a shame, because you're my favorite mod, and I'll /out of all of those games if you don't think that I can read the rules.

Lol. It's obviously nothing personal against anyone, no one is saying YOU wouldn't know the rules, it just covers all the angles so people don't have to start lying about not knowing some of the rules and stuff. Game just works better if everyone knows the rules is all. Why is this such a big deal? I would have missed unique votes not being in effect in this game if SfS didn't make me read the rules.

Wait.... Unique voting isn't?

.....

Again, I kid, I kid!

[Voltgloss]

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

Thats a shame, because you're my favorite mod, and I'll /out of all of those games if you don't think that I can read the rules.

If I put a safeguard in the middle of the rules to guarantee that they've been read, it's not because I "don't think that Frisk can read the rules."  It is because SOME PLAYERS HAVE DEMONSTRABLY NOT READ THE RULES IN PREVIOUS GAMES, and therefore it is reasonable to include a requirement confirming that ALL players have read ALL the rules.

Would you prefer a line in the middle of the rules saying "If your name is Grujah, you must do X Y Z to sign in?"  Do you think that would be fair?  Do you think that would protect against new players signing into a game without reading the rules?

[Captain_Frisk]

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

Thats a shame, because you're my favorite mod, and I'll /out of all of those games if you don't think that I can read the rules.

Lol. It's obviously nothing personal against anyone, no one is saying YOU wouldn't know the rules, it just covers all the angles so people don't have to start lying about not knowing some of the rules and stuff. Game just works better if everyone knows the rules is all. Why is this such a big deal? I would have missed unique votes not being in effect in this game if SfS didn't make me read the rules.

I have sent my feedback to SFS via PM as he requested (but not before personally calling me a bully in thread)

[Captain_Frisk]

I wholeheartedly and fully endorse what SFS is trying to do here.  I think it's a good idea and will likely shamelessly copy it in my future games.

Thats a shame, because you're my favorite mod, and I'll /out of all of those games if you don't think that I can read the rules.

If I put a safeguard in the middle of the rules to guarantee that they've been read, it's not because I "don't think that Frisk can read the rules."  It is because SOME PLAYERS HAVE DEMONSTRABLY NOT READ THE RULES IN PREVIOUS GAMES, and therefore it is reasonable to include a requirement confirming that ALL players have read ALL the rules.

Would you prefer a line in the middle of the rules saying "If your name is Grujah, you must do X Y Z to sign in?"  Do you think that would be fair?  Do you think that would protect against new players signing into a game without reading the rules?

Grujah's "what's a vengekill" is a already classic moment in f.ds mafia history.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'll play. Not like I've got other things to do...

Oh wait...

Yes, I read everything.

Do you agree with it though?

Thats the spirit.

If I'm /in, I've implicitly agreed.

Which is great!

Here's the thing though. The OP explicitly says that explicit agreement is required.  It's your choice whether to enter.

I don't have to keep addressing this issue, and I won't from here on.  The only reason I have done so to the extent I have is so I won't have to the next time, WHEN THE RULES TO ENTER WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME.

[Eevee]

Frisk, you might always do your due diligence, but it's obvious not all others do (myself included). Do you think some people not knowing the rules completely is fine, or should mods just make an exception for you?

[Captain_Frisk]

Frisk, you might always do your due diligence, but it's obvious not all others do (myself included). Do you think some people not knowing the rules completely is fine, or should mods just make an exception for you?

I think people not knowing the rules is fine.

[Voltgloss]

I think people not knowing the rules is fine.

On this, we will have to agree to disagree.

[Eevee]

I think people not knowing the rules is fine.

On this, we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes, mostly because it opens the door to some ugly angleshoots. Basically forces people to lie about not knowing the rules.

(I don't think you are a bully, Frisk. Sorry if I implied that. All in jest.)

[Captain_Frisk]

I think people not knowing the rules is fine.

On this, we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes, mostly because it opens the door to some ugly angleshoots. Basically forces people to lie about not knowing the rules.

(I don't think you are a bully, Frisk. Sorry if I implied that. All in jest.)

You didn't imply anything.  SFS straight up called me one.

[shraeye]

Yes, mostly because it opens the door to some ugly angleshoots. Basically forces people to lie about not knowing the rules.

(I don't think you are a bully, Frisk. Sorry if I implied that. All in jest.)

You didn't imply anything.  SFS straight up called me one.

Now that's not even true.  He told you to stop misrepresenting the person he thinks you are.  I know SFS has respect for you, and I've got tons of respect for you too.  Let's just move past this by having all quickly confirm to SFS that they agree with the rules, and then things will be much more fun.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I think people not knowing the rules is fine.

On this, we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes, mostly because it opens the door to some ugly angleshoots. Basically forces people to lie about not knowing the rules.

(I don't think you are a bully, Frisk. Sorry if I implied that. All in jest.)

You didn't imply anything.  SFS straight up called me one.

I will address this last comment in-thread, because it is a mis-representation (for the second time).  I did not call you a bully.  I expressed concern that your comments would be perceived as unwelcoming, I pointed out such would be unlike you based on my previous experience, and I asked you not to make things worse by making yourself into a bully.  Here is the quote, and I leave it to the community to decide if your posts since then, such as (paraphrasing here) "hey man, wanna cave and get this started" means you were successful.

I have inner and read.  If I have to agree to them... Well tough crap.

If I have offended you in some way with the circumstances of ZM7 or the subsequent discussion, it was not my intention, and I apologize.  I believe we simply have differing viewpoints on the claiming topic, and I have no issue with that or with you.

That being said, I find comments like:

I have read the rules, but I don't need them because I make my own.

and

I have inner and read.  If I have to agree to them... Well tough crap.

to be at best, unwelcoming to other (especially new) players, and at worst, possibly misrepresenting the person I believe you to be. Don't make yourself into schoolyard bully.

Please know that you are MOST welcome in this game, but to get in, you have to follow procedure, and you've not done so. If you don't like that, well, tough crap. If we need to continue this discussion, let's do it through PMs.
[/quote]

I've not read your PM Frisk, but I will in a moment. Thanks for sending it.  FWIW if you've not read the Mason QT for ZM7, you may want to.  The entry conditions were not dreamed up after ZM7.  But I don't want, and will not allow the players in a game I'm moderating to be subjected to, another game where a lack of knowledge of the rules affects the outcome of a game (and you know the game I'm talking about)

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

And of course, I screwed up a quote.

[Jimmmmm]

FWIW if you've not read the Mason QT for ZM7, you may want to.

Please, enjoy my pain.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

FWIW if you've not read the Mason QT for ZM7, you may want to.

Please, enjoy my pain.

Mason, not mafia.  In it, I expressed to Insom my intent to make sure everyone reads the rules here before a game starts.

Jimm, I thought you did pretty well, especially with the relatively little support you got because of the time differences.  I remember I hated my first game as mafia.

[Jimmmmm]

Mason, not mafia.

...oh yeah.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

THREAD IS LOCKED, PMs ARE SENT, NINJA START IS IMMINENT - WRITING FLAVOR NOW.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

The crowd gradually hushed as a professorial figure took the stage.  "Good evening, and welcome to the first session of Anthropology 101.  This is the class I most look forward to teaching every fall, as I hope it ignites in you a desire to learn more about why we act the way we do as a species. My name is Dr. Richard Leakey, and I hope to show you, through this survey course, that evolution of humanity is an interesting, sophisticated, and ultimately logical explanation for most of our present day human behaviors."  Suddenly a blinding flash of light stuns everyone, and when the audience regains its senses, there are multiple murmurs of "what happened to the guy that was just sitting here?"

I'm not sure this was the best location to procure humans who have not been subjected to these tests before. I seem to recognize most of these faces.

Relax, there is at least one person we've not seen, so perhaps we will gain additional insights.  We can always select another location next time.  Shall we begin?


Eevee, Insomniac, Ashersky, Dsell, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmmmm and a newcomer all awaken in a comfortably furnished space, with chairs, tables, multiple gaming consoles, computers, and a fully stocked bar.  Insomniac says "I have a feeling we're about to do this all over again.  Frisk tried to tell us not to hide, that we were better out in the open - we should have listened"  Galzria says, "Well, if we have to do it again, at least we have a bar.  Maybe we should try it inebriated!"  Robz turns to the stranger and says "This has never happened without me, so I know everyone. Who are you?"  Destierro introduces himself and asks "where are we, what happened?" Ashersky explains "it's not so much what happened as what is about to.  Maybe you can be some help."


Out of a perforated ceiling panel  comes a very familiar voice: Welcome humans.  I am your speaker, and you know what is required.  There are once again among you three Mafia Goons.  Find them.  Destroy them.  Or they will absolutely destroy you.

To aid you in your quest for survival, we selected two innocents, and once again implanted the same neural transmitters that the evil ones have. Those innocents may therefore confer and share information.  We call them the Masons.

"What the hell?" says Destierro.

Day 1 has begun.  Deadline is tomorrow night, December 20, at 8:00 pm forum time
I've allowed extra time because of the ninja start, and the wide variety of timezones for the players.

[Eevee]

Good day all. I'll be online for the next 6 hours or so, and then back with phone access when I wake up.

[Galzria]

I'm here as well and always available.

[Insomniac]

Also here

[Robz888]

I'm here, but I'm also in an online conference meeting until 4:30. So, I'm paying some attention there, some here.

[Eevee]

I'm here, but I'm also in an online conference meeting until 4:30. So, I'm paying some attention there, some here.

We all know how that's going to work out.

[Eevee]

I again think masons should just do whatever they feel is best.

[Destierro]

I'm here on and off for the next few hours

[Jimmmmm]

I'm at work (nightshift again). I really need to get some sleep today too, so I'll be in and out. Also, I think the deadline is at 12pm on Friday my time, and I'll have to leave for work at 9am, and probably won't be able to be online at all during that time.

[Insomniac]

I'm still strongly opposed to claiming

[Galzria]

I'm still strongly opposed to claiming

I agree, and if I'm a mason, I simply won't.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Mod really is away for a few hours now.

[Galzria]

I'm here, but I'm also in an online conference meeting until 4:30. So, I'm paying some attention there, some here.

We all know how that's going to work out.

+1

[Dsell]

I'm here!

[Dsell]

I'm opposed to claiming unless the mason is at L-1 or maybe L-2.

[Robz888]

Hmm. Well, I'm still strongly in favor of Masons claiming. Treat it like the other version of the game, except strictly superior, because our ICs have daychat.

I'm sure we don't want to take up much time debating this all over again--and the only person who agreed with me has vanished from the forums--but... it's better people.

[Eevee]

I think Galzria was really scummy in the pregame, with his vote on me and everything. Only one problem, roles hadn't been divided yet then.

[Jimmmmm]

FoS: SFS for Dr. Richard Leakey.

[Dsell]

And even then, probably only that mason should claim.


Wait, here's a theory question: Is it better to have at least one mason claim before the end of D1 to make sure that mafia cannot fakeclaim the next day and get a 50/50 at a win?

For example, if we are all opposed to masons claiming, and we get through Day 1 and lynch a VT without either of the masons claiming, that gives mafia the chance to claim masons the next day. The rest of us will have to pick between the two claimed mason teams and we have a 50/50 shot at losing right then and there or discovering the scum team.

So actually, in light of this, I strongly think that at least 1 mason should claim Day 1. Although damn, if we lynch mafia and only 1 has claimed, that person will die and that opens mafia up to a fakeclaim.

Uhhhh thoughts on this?

[Robz888]

And even then, probably only that mason should claim.


Wait, here's a theory question: Is it better to have at least one mason claim before the end of D1 to make sure that mafia cannot fakeclaim the next day and get a 50/50 at a win?

For example, if we are all opposed to masons claiming, and we get through Day 1 and lynch a VT without either of the masons claiming, that gives mafia the chance to claim masons the next day. The rest of us will have to pick between the two claimed mason teams and we have a 50/50 shot at losing right then and there or discovering the scum team.

So actually, in light of this, I strongly think that at least 1 mason should claim Day 1. Although damn, if we lynch mafia and only 1 has claimed, that person will die and that opens mafia up to a fakeclaim.

Uhhhh thoughts on this?

False. If we lynch a mafia day 1, a mason goes down, and then another mason comes forward... if that person gets counterclaimed, we will be able to lynch both claimants and win for sure.

[Dsell]

You are right! Yeah ok we are in a better position if we lynch scum day 1. Cool, then!

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah, day 1 scum lynch is awesome. Day 1 Town lynch, I'm not sure. I guess in most cases where scum manage to get a Townie lynched on Day 1 they're hoping for a >50% chance of winning. Blitz VII was an exception of course.

[Dsell]

In light of that, I am in favor of 1 mason claiming before the end of Day 1.

[Insomniac]

In light of that, I am in favor of 1 mason claiming before the end of Day 1.

Why? That doesn't make sense.

[Jimmmmm]

In light of that, I am in favor of 1 mason claiming before the end of Day 1.

Sorry, why? I don't understand why only one Mason would claim. Isn't the main reason not to claim so that scum don't know who to vengekill?

PPE ninja'd by Insom.

[Dsell]

Look at my post earlier. If nobody claims and we lynch town, scum is put in a position where they can fakeclaim.

[Eevee]

In light of that, I am in favor of 1 mason claiming before the end of Day 1.

Why? That doesn't make sense.

We'd get 100% of the downside and 50% of the upside...

[Galzria]

I think Galzria was really scummy in the pregame, with his vote on me and everything. Only one problem, roles hadn't been divided yet then.

Wow, a little jumpy today? Worried that I had already read you for your yet to be received scum PM? Hmmm?

[Robz888]

Look people, if the Masons don't claim... I bet we get a townie lynch today like for sure. Fine, we usually get a townie lynch Day 1 anyway. Tomorrow we play a guessing game, Masons or Mafia. Do you trust us to win that game? I don't.

I would much rather put the power in the hands of the true Masons and give them 2/3 chances to guess the scum team.

[Eevee]

I think Galzria was really scummy in the pregame, with his vote on me and everything. Only one problem, roles hadn't been divided yet then.

Wow, a little jumpy today? Worried that I had already read you for your yet to be received scum PM? Hmmm?

Lol, people, which of us is jumpy here?

[Insomniac]

In light of that, I am in favor of 1 mason claiming before the end of Day 1.

Why? That doesn't make sense.

We'd get 100% of the downside and 50% of the upside...

I forgot how much I like getting 100% downside and only 50% upside!

[Eevee]

This discussion will lead to masons being outed anyways...

[Galzria]

Look at my post earlier. If nobody claims and we lynch town, scum is put in a position where they can fakeclaim.

Yes, this is true. One needs to claim, the other stay silent -by days end-.

Even if we hit scum, and that Mason gets vengkilled, the other Mason is still an IC after he claims D2. Scum cannot counterclaim him, because a 1-1 trade at that point is strictly a scum loss.

[Jimmmmm]

Can someone explain the benefit of the other Mason not claiming please?

[Dsell]

Look at my post earlier. If nobody claims and we lynch town, scum is put in a position where they can fakeclaim.

Yes, this is true. One needs to claim, the other stay silent -by days end-.

Even if we hit scum, and that Mason gets vengkilled, the other Mason is still an IC after he claims D2. Scum cannot counterclaim him, because a 1-1 trade at that point is strictly a scum loss.

Yeah, this exactly.

@Jimmm, maybe they could, but AT LEAST one needs to claim.

[Dsell]

Eevee and Insomniac, do you see my point now? You obviously weren't seeing it earlier, but Galz laid it out pretty well.

[Robz888]

Okay guys, look. The Masons need to claim, for a reason we haven't really considered yet.

The scum are probably well on their way to figuring out exactly who the Masons are. I mean, would they be under any delusion about me being a Mason? Because obviously I probably wouldn't have stayed silent about being one if I was one. So they cross me off the list. Now, I see Eevee and Galzria yelling at each other a little bit. Well, guess what--they're probably not Masons together. Jimm's statements about the Masons suggest to me that he is also unlikely to be one. Possibly Dsell too. So my guess is some combination of Galzria/Insomniac/the new guy.

I'm positive that if I can put this together after 1 hour of playing, the three scum working together can as well.

Now, if the Masons were deliberately making public statements to throw people off, that could work. Like, let's imagine I am a Mason and I am doing that. Okay, then when I claim Mason, you're not going to believe me. So the Masons have this impossible task here of trying to not seem like Masons, but they'll need to prove they're Masons eventually! This is just not going to work.

Sorry to be outing people again, but... look, the scum are already figuring this stuff out, very likely.

[Eevee]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

[Destierro]

Look at my post earlier. If nobody claims and we lynch town, scum is put in a position where they can fakeclaim.

Yes, this is true. One needs to claim, the other stay silent -by days end-.

Even if we hit scum, and that Mason gets vengkilled, the other Mason is still an IC after he claims D2. Scum cannot counterclaim him, because a 1-1 trade at that point is strictly a scum loss.

Yeah, this exactly.

@Jimmm, maybe they could, but AT LEAST one needs to claim.

I don't see any benifit to claiming unless the mason is about to get lynched. Since there are no night kills besides Vengkill, it would be better to have them stay in the dark to avoid getting vengkilled.

[Eevee]

I basically agree with robz and hinted at that earlier.

[Galzria]

Well, he can sit here and Mason hunt all he wants, or he can do something useful like scum hunt.

[Dsell]

Look at my post earlier. If nobody claims and we lynch town, scum is put in a position where they can fakeclaim.

Yes, this is true. One needs to claim, the other stay silent -by days end-.

Even if we hit scum, and that Mason gets vengkilled, the other Mason is still an IC after he claims D2. Scum cannot counterclaim him, because a 1-1 trade at that point is strictly a scum loss.

Yeah, this exactly.

@Jimmm, maybe they could, but AT LEAST one needs to claim.

I don't see any benifit to claiming unless the mason is about to get lynched. Since there are no night kills besides Vengkill, it would be better to have them stay in the dark to avoid getting vengkilled.

Because if no masons claim today and we lynch a townie, then the mafia may claim masons tomorrow and we will be forced to choose between the real masons and the mafia, and that is a bad spot to be in. If we pick right, we win, if we pick wrong, we lose.

[Jimmmmm]

On the other hand, if we lynch a Townie first up, still having a 50% chance of winning isn't terrible.

[Dsell]

That may be true, but I'd still rather have 1 IC rather than no ICs.

If we have 1 IC, 3 mafia, and 1 other townie (assuming you are town), you have a better than 50% chance of hitting scum.

[Dsell]

That may be true, but I'd still rather have 1 IC rather than no ICs.

If we have 1 IC, 3 mafia, and 1 other townie (assuming you are town), you have a better than 50% chance of hitting scum.

No, 2 ICs, sorry. Or 1 IC and 2 townies. This is the day after a townie lynch, assuming a mason claimed day 1.

[Jimmmmm]

Well true, but if we're going by percentages, hitting scum then only takes us back to the 50%.

[Robz888]

Well, he can sit here and Mason hunt all he wants, or he can do something useful like scum hunt.

I only want to know the thing the scum probably already know!

[Dsell]

Robz, I really doubt the mafia has already pieced together both masons. There is so much WIFOM with that.

That said, I guessed it's not SO bad if they both claim now, but I think I'd rather see some organic wagon growth before they step in to give IC thoughts.

[Galzria]

Well, he can sit here and Mason hunt all he wants, or he can do something useful like scum hunt.

I only want to know the thing the scum probably already know!

And by the end of the day you'll know one. With the Masons deciding which is best to step forward, and at what time.

[Robz888]

Robz, I really doubt the mafia has already pieced together both masons. There is so much WIFOM with that.

That said, I guessed it's not SO bad if they both claim now, but I think I'd rather see some organic wagon growth before they step in to give IC thoughts.

Why is there WIFOM? If the Masons are creating WIFOM by not acting like Masons, they will be harder to believe tomorrow. If they aren't creating WIFOM, the scum probably have it narrowed down pretty well.

[Robz888]

Well, he can sit here and Mason hunt all he wants, or he can do something useful like scum hunt.

I only want to know the thing the scum probably already know!

And by the end of the day you'll know one. With the Masons deciding which is best to step forward, and at what time.

OK.

[Dsell]

It's not a matter of being hard to believe! If one or more masons come forward before the end of the day, they'll be ICs unless counterclaimed. If they're counterclaimed then voila! we have the scum team.

[Galzria]

Robz, I really doubt the mafia has already pieced together both masons. There is so much WIFOM with that.

That said, I guessed it's not SO bad if they both claim now, but I think I'd rather see some organic wagon growth before they step in to give IC thoughts.

Why is there WIFOM? If the Masons are creating WIFOM by not acting like Masons, they will be harder to believe tomorrow. If they aren't creating WIFOM, the scum probably have it narrowed down pretty well.

How will they be "harder to believe"? There will be a 0% chance of them being scum, thus a 100% chance that they are as claimed when they claim.

[Insomniac]

Anyways we should start doing some scum hunting instead of fishing for masons.

[Eevee]

To try to move the game into a more fruitful direction, Vote: Dsell. Closed my eyes for 15 seconds and thought about the players in here, he felt scummiest.

[Robz888]

Robz, I really doubt the mafia has already pieced together both masons. There is so much WIFOM with that.

That said, I guessed it's not SO bad if they both claim now, but I think I'd rather see some organic wagon growth before they step in to give IC thoughts.

Why is there WIFOM? If the Masons are creating WIFOM by not acting like Masons, they will be harder to believe tomorrow. If they aren't creating WIFOM, the scum probably have it narrowed down pretty well.

How will they be "harder to believe"? There will be a 0% chance of them being scum, thus a 100% chance that they are as claimed when they claim.

Today, yes. As long as they claim today. I have no problem with that.

[Galzria]

Robz, I really doubt the mafia has already pieced together both masons. There is so much WIFOM with that.

That said, I guessed it's not SO bad if they both claim now, but I think I'd rather see some organic wagon growth before they step in to give IC thoughts.

Why is there WIFOM? If the Masons are creating WIFOM by not acting like Masons, they will be harder to believe tomorrow. If they aren't creating WIFOM, the scum probably have it narrowed down pretty well.

How will they be "harder to believe"? There will be a 0% chance of them being scum, thus a 100% chance that they are as claimed when they claim.

Today, yes. As long as they claim today. I have no problem with that.

Yes. One will claim by the end of the day, making both IC's tomorrow no matter what happens.

[Dsell]

Seriously? I am being really, really pro-town here. If you got your way and no masons claimed, a D1 mislynch would mean you couldn't even trust your masons day 2.

I'm getting a townie vibe from Robz. He's not making the greatest arguments, but I don't really think that's a trait of scumRobz this early.

[Robz888]

Seriously? I am being really, really pro-town here. If you got your way and no masons claimed, a D1 mislynch would mean you couldn't even trust your masons day 2.

I'm getting a townie vibe from Robz. He's not making the greatest arguments, but I don't really think that's a trait of scumRobz this early.

Man I'm taking a beating lately.

[Dsell]

Seriously? I am being really, really pro-town here. If you got your way and no masons claimed, a D1 mislynch would mean you couldn't even trust your masons day 2.

I'm getting a townie vibe from Robz. He's not making the greatest arguments, but I don't really think that's a trait of scumRobz this early.

This is all addressed at Eevee, of course.

[Insomniac]

Seriously? I am being really, really pro-town here. If you got your way and no masons claimed, a D1 mislynch would mean you couldn't even trust your masons day 2.

I'm getting a townie vibe from Robz. He's not making the greatest arguments, but I don't really think that's a trait of scumRobz this early.

If they were scummy, but I am of course coming around to the claiming day 1. As long as its at the right time

[Dsell]

Seriously? I am being really, really pro-town here. If you got your way and no masons claimed, a D1 mislynch would mean you couldn't even trust your masons day 2.

I'm getting a townie vibe from Robz. He's not making the greatest arguments, but I don't really think that's a trait of scumRobz this early.

Man I'm taking a beating lately.

I'm sorry! It's true though. As long as one of the masons claims today, they will be ICs tomorrow. There is no need for them to worry about not being believed.

Maybe you understood that and I was missing something, in which case sorry I guess.

[Eevee]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

[Jimmmmm]

Seriously? I am being really, really pro-town here.

Nothing you've said so far has really jumped out at me, but I think this bothers me a little, especially in light of how Robz and Frisk acted last game. Of course, I'm always a tad suspicious of anyone going out of their way to appear really Towny. Not sure yet if that general suspicion is warranted.

[Robz888]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

Eevee. So town.

[Dsell]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

Oh it was my mistake to lump you in with people who were really opposed to them claiming at all. My mistake. But still, I first pointed out how important it is for at least 1 mason to claim Day 1.

[Insomniac]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

Gimme credit guys I need it!

FTFY

[Galzria]

To try to move the game into a more fruitful direction, Vote: Dsell. Closed my eyes for 15 seconds and thought about the players in here, he felt scummiest.

I'm really... Not.

Granted, it's really tough to separate agreement/disagreement from scum/not scum. Still, I think Dsell is setting out ideas that make the best use of our assets, and leave no room for town to end up in an "well now what" moment. So for that, at least, he reads slightly townie to me.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I'm about to finish work, so I'll be gone while I head home. I'll jump back on for a bit when I get home, but then I'll really need to sleep.

[Dsell]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

Gimme credit guys I need it!

FTFY

No, just no.

[Galzria]

Man... Dsell, what wad the last game I played with you in?

I can't recall your meta information.

[Insomniac]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

But still, I first pointed out how important it is for at least 1 mason to claim Day 1.

This part of your post just seems like you're trying too hard to get credit

[Dsell]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

But still, I first pointed out how important it is for at least 1 mason to claim Day 1.

This part of your post just seems like you're trying too hard to get credit

Man... Dsell, what wad the last game I played with you in?

I can't recall your meta information.

Insom knows my mafia meta better than anyone else. This feels really fabricated from him.

[Galzria]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

But still, I first pointed out how important it is for at least 1 mason to claim Day 1.

This part of your post just seems like you're trying too hard to get credit

Actually, while I haven't found him scummy, you're correct about this - it does feel like "trying too hard".

[Robz888]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

But still, I first pointed out how important it is for at least 1 mason to claim Day 1.

This part of your post just seems like you're trying too hard to get credit

Actually, while I haven't found him scummy, you're correct about this - it does feel like "trying too hard".

I disagree, this was quintessential Eevee. Who is town.

[Insomniac]

The question to me is whether to claim right away or to wait for an opportune moment (sometime d1).

Yay people read my posts yay.

But still, I first pointed out how important it is for at least 1 mason to claim Day 1.

This part of your post just seems like you're trying too hard to get credit

Actually, while I haven't found him scummy, you're correct about this - it does feel like "trying too hard".

I disagree, this was quintessential Eevee. Who is town.

Did you read the post? It's talking about DSell

[Galzria]

^^^^^

[Robz888]

^^^^^

Oops, sorry, there was Eevee in there, but your comment was directed at Dsell.

[Dsell]

I will take credit for my pro-town ideas, yes. It's up to everybody else whether that makes me scummy or townie.

I think having ideas that are not only good for town but important for town is a pretty pro-town thing.

Now there's a bit of an argument to be made that the idea isn't actually that important (Jimmmmm pointed out that the odds might not be that much better) but some people were arguing for something that would be really really bad if it was carried out.

[Eevee]

So, guys, assume I'm town, what do you make of Robz's statement? He is right about me once again, but I dont think what little he has this far should necessarily convince him yet. Although it could, and it's not like he has said I'm an IC or anything, just expressed a town read. But what do you think? Keep in mind generally buddying up to me has been an effective scum strategy because I'm naive like that.

And I don't mean that as a FOS towards Robz, I'm literally trying to decipher what it could mean. I'm leaning towards it being a town tell just because scum doesn't want to eliminate people from the pool of townies they can vote for without seeming opportunistic.

[Dsell]

I think he means that "quintessential Eevee" is town. Not necessarily that you, current Eevee, are town.

[Robz888]

So, guys, assume I'm town, what do you make of Robz's statement? He is right about me once again, but I dont think what little he has this far should necessarily convince him yet. Although it could, and it's not like he has said I'm an IC or anything, just expressed a town read. But what do you think? Keep in mind generally buddying up to me has been an effective scum strategy because I'm naive like that.

And I don't mean that as a FOS towards Robz, I'm literally trying to decipher what it could mean. I'm leaning towards it being a town tell just because scum doesn't want to eliminate people from the pool of townies they can vote for without seeming opportunistic.

I would obviously recosnider my read on you if I had reason to, but at the moment you are just so town, I think.

[Robz888]

I think he means that "quintessential Eevee" is town. Not necessarily that you, current Eevee, are town.

No, I actually do think this current Eevee is pretty town.

[Dsell]

I'm naive like that.

Also, ugh.

[Dsell]

I think he means that "quintessential Eevee" is town. Not necessarily that you, current Eevee, are town.

No, I actually do think this current Eevee is pretty town.

Ok.

[Galzria]

I will take credit for my pro-town ideas, yes. It's up to everybody else whether that makes me scummy or townie.

I think having ideas that are not only good for town but important for town is a pretty pro-town thing.

Now there's a bit of an argument to be made that the idea isn't actually that important (Jimmmmm pointed out that the odds might not be that much better) but some people were arguing for something that would be really really bad if it was carried out.

[Galzria]

I have a hard time trusting Robz ability to read Eevee.

Not that I think he's wrong here, at least not yet.

[Eevee]

Well, if no one else has any input on that, I'm going to conclude Robz seems towny to me then.

Galzria, were you joking when you called me jumpy? I still have the bad feeling about Dsell.

[Robz888]

Btw, should we do that scum reads/town reads thing? I feel like that's a fine and useful tool for town.

Normally we would have the ICs ask, but they haven't claimed, blah blah blah.

Anyway, I'll just start.

Likely Town: Galzria, Eevee, Insomniac (in that order, yes I have a stronger townread on Galz actually)

Lurking Scum (like, what have they even said?): Destierro, ashersky

Non-lurking scum: Jimm, Dsell

At this point I'd guess that the scum team is 3 of Destierro, ashersky, Jimm, and Dsell... based mostly on my townreads of the others.

[Eevee]

I have a hard time trusting Robz ability to read Eevee.

Not that I think he's wrong here, at least not yet.

Iirc Robz has generally read me pretty well. Do you disagree?

[Insomniac]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

[Robz888]

I have a hard time trusting Robz ability to read Eevee.

Not that I think he's wrong here, at least not yet.

Iirc Robz has generally read me pretty well. Do you disagree?

Yeah, what's this then? I have like a pretty good history of reading Eevee. I read him right in BlitzVI (I read Galz wrong, unfortunately). Oh, and I read him mostly right last game, I just had to not get myself lynched which was why I voted for him and I was trusting Frisk.

[Galzria]

Well, if no one else has any input on that, I'm going to conclude Robz seems towny to me then.

Galzria, were you joking when you called me jumpy? I still have the bad feeling about Dsell.

About the pregame stuff? Of course. You were joking about me seeming scummy before I ever got my PM, so I figured claiming my ability to read you as scum before you ever received your PM was appropriate.

[Robz888]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

[Insomniac]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

I just find it a bit wierd because I don't have any strong feelings yet, I think Dsell is slightly scummy for trying to be given town credit super hard but I don't have any Eureka reads or anything yet. So it has more to do with you having 3 reads this early.

[Dsell]

I find Insomniac scummiest for reading me incorrectly.

Robz seems townie.

[Robz888]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

I just find it a bit wierd because I don't have any strong feelings yet, I think Dsell is slightly scummy for trying to be given town credit super hard but I don't have any Eureka reads or anything yet. So it has more to do with you having 3 reads this early.

I reserve the right to completely change them, but I think it's better for the game if everybody tossed out some reads. And what can I say, I have strong townreads on Eevee and Galz.

[Eevee]

Well, if no one else has any input on that, I'm going to conclude Robz seems towny to me then.

Galzria, were you joking when you called me jumpy? I still have the bad feeling about Dsell.

About the pregame stuff? Of course. You were joking about me seeming scummy before I ever got my PM, so I figured claiming my ability to read you as scum before you ever received your PM was appropriate.

I think Galzria was really scummy in the pregame, with his vote on me and everything. Only one problem, roles hadn't been divided yet then.

Wow, a little jumpy today? Worried that I had already read you for your yet to be received scum PM? Hmmm?

This is what I was referring to, okay. Fair enough, if you had thought I really was jumpy, that would have been scummy to me. But no.

Robz's exercise:

I have a couple of guys who I think are either masons or scummy, but I think revealing those might be antitown. Wouldnt it be?

Robz is a top town read. Dsell top scum, but it's very slight. Ashersky is probably just asleep, I didn't even remember he was playing but meh. Scummy because he hasnt posted, hopefully this will change soon. Galzria I don't know, don't have a town read on him but his d1 as town has read scummy to me earlier (see the game we just lost one game back). Insomniac is no read yet, which is slightly scummy because I sometimes get town reads from him. New guy is pretty much noread (slight scum), don't think his lurking is scummy yet but not really towny either.

[Dsell]

I wasn't meaning to try to take town credit, I was just shocked that Eevee found my scummiest after all I had done was put forth one idea (which was a good one).

[Eevee]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

I just find it a bit wierd because I don't have any strong feelings yet, I think Dsell is slightly scummy for trying to be given town credit super hard but I don't have any Eureka reads or anything yet. So it has more to do with you having 3 reads this early.

I reserve the right to completely change them, but I think it's better for the game if everybody tossed out some reads. And what can I say, I have strong townreads on Eevee and Galz.

i absolutely agree with this way of playing the game, especially in blitz.

[Insomniac]

Eevee I remember a time when you used to always think I was scum, I didn't realize I had shifted to town in your eyes.

Scummiest: Dsell

Haven't enough content from: Ash, Destierro

Towniest: Galz

Null: Everyone else.

[Destierro]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

I feel like I'm at a distinct disadvantage here, as I don't get this kind of intuition.

Anyways, Dsell seems to be overly trying to get credit for being pro town, and that sounds really scummy to me.
Rob is really driving the conversation, not sure if that means much, could be overly active scum, or just town. I don't have a good read on him.
Galz seems very town, cause of his earlier posts, namely 127 [/quote] Well, he can sit here and Mason hunt all he wants, or he can do something useful like scum hunt. [/quote]
So with all that, i think i'm going to vote : Dsell just because he seems the scummiest of those who have weighed in yet.

[Destierro]

I'll figure out quotes eventually! =/

[Galzria]

Btw, should we do that scum reads/town reads thing? I feel like that's a fine and useful tool for town.

Normally we would have the ICs ask, but they haven't claimed, blah blah blah.

Anyway, I'll just start.

Likely Town: Galzria, Eevee, Insomniac (in that order, yes I have a stronger townread on Galz actually)

Lurking Scum (like, what have they even said?): Destierro, ashersky

Non-lurking scum: Jimm, Dsell

At this point I'd guess that the scum team is 3 of Destierro, ashersky, Jimm, and Dsell... based mostly on my townreads of the others.

Let's see....

I don't have any strong town reads, tbh. I can't argue with the LALL list, and I find Dsell less scummy than you make him out to be, but...

Probably Eevee is my Towniest, because he does seem to be happy-go-lucky Eevee - however that HASN'T been the town!Eevee showing up to most games recently, so... I'm wary still.

After Eevee is probably Robz. I honestly want to put Insomniac here, but something about his posts have felt forced. I'll reread and see if I cab put my finger on it.

Then comes Dsell, but I'll admit I have very little Meta information here. I don't know what town!Dsell vs scum!Dsell looks like, but isn't scum!Dsell more lurky? Despite his asking for credit, I do think he deserves some, do there's that.

Fourth is Insomniac. As stated above, he's felt a little forced, but I can't put my finger on it.

Jimmmmm/Ashersky/Destierro I've got nothing on, but one is likely to be town, and maybe two. I doubt very much that paints the scum team.

[Eevee]

Destierro, I can definitely symphatize. A lot of new people have been very annoyed about the constant referring to past games in the past. Not much you can do about it though, and it gets easier as you start remembering who is who better.

[Eevee]

Really liking the participation level this far. Also got a good feeling about Galzria's read post, in that I agree with a lot of what he said which has been the case when we've been on the same side in the past.

[Dsell]

Like someone pointed out, Ashersky is probably asleep. I'll be really interested to hear what he says when he does show up.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.1


Dsell (2) - Eevee, Destierro

Not voting: Insomniac, Ashersky, Dsell, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 pm forum time.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Shraeye, Arch - I'm back, thanks.

[Jimmmmm]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

That doesn't make sense. If he's always Town, how do you know that you'll be able to tell if he's scum?

[Robz888]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

That doesn't make sense. If he's always Town, how do you know that you'll be able to tell if he's scum?

If he acts differently than usual, I'll think he's scum. I mean, obviously, we'll see if that works.

[Eevee]

Jimmm has got a point there, Robz. As long as you've never pinned me as scum early, you always reading me well pretty much just proves me that "I always act in a certain way, you recognize it and I draw town helluvalot". No proof you'd be able to tell the difference if I was scum yet?

[Galzria]

Jimmm has got a point there, Robz. As long as you've never pinned me as scum early, you always reading me well pretty much just proves me that "I always act in a certain way, you recognize it and I draw town helluvalot". No proof you'd be able to tell the difference if I was scum yet?

I got weird Vibes from you D1 of "Read the Freakin' Flavor", but nobody else did so I dropped it until I came back, then lynched your scummy tail.

Still, it was far from slamdunk even then, and I wouldn't count on my ability to do so any time you're scum.

[Jimmmmm]

I think its weird Robz has a town read on Eevee but I'm not treating the exchange as anything yet.

Why is this remotely weird? I have played more games with Eevee than any of you and he's always Town and lately I can pretty much tell correctly.

That doesn't make sense. If he's always Town, how do you know that you'll be able to tell if he's scum?

If he acts differently than usual, I'll think he's scum. I mean, obviously, we'll see if that works.

Hmm. I don't know. I guess I see where you're coming from. I'm finding both you and Eevee have an annoying habit of flipping Town when I think you're scummy. One of you has got to be scum eventually, why not now?

Obviously that line of reasoning is even worse than yours.

[Dsell]

Jimmm has got a point there, Robz. As long as you've never pinned me as scum early, you always reading me well pretty much just proves me that "I always act in a certain way, you recognize it and I draw town helluvalot". No proof you'd be able to tell the difference if I was scum yet?

I got weird Vibes from you D1 of "Read the Freakin' Flavor", but nobody else did so I dropped it until I came back, then lynched your scummy tail.

Still, it was far from slamdunk even then, and I wouldn't count on my ability to do so any time you're scum.

Not true, I made the case against Eevee on day 1!

[Eevee]

Jimmm has got a point there, Robz. As long as you've never pinned me as scum early, you always reading me well pretty much just proves me that "I always act in a certain way, you recognize it and I draw town helluvalot". No proof you'd be able to tell the difference if I was scum yet?

I got weird Vibes from you D1 of "Read the Freakin' Flavor", but nobody else did so I dropped it until I came back, then lynched your scummy tail.

Still, it was far from slamdunk even then, and I wouldn't count on my ability to do so any time you're scum.

yeah, and people have mislynched me a bunch too. you even said "eevee hasnt been his jolly self in the most recent games" like two hours ago. I guess this game isn't that easy, and gut-reads are never really bulletproof. Not that anyone is claiming that. And I do think they are a useful tool for town.

[Galzria]

Jimmm has got a point there, Robz. As long as you've never pinned me as scum early, you always reading me well pretty much just proves me that "I always act in a certain way, you recognize it and I draw town helluvalot". No proof you'd be able to tell the difference if I was scum yet?

I got weird Vibes from you D1 of "Read the Freakin' Flavor", but nobody else did so I dropped it until I came back, then lynched your scummy tail.

Still, it was far from slamdunk even then, and I wouldn't count on my ability to do so any time you're scum.

Not true, I made the case against Eevee on day 1!

Hey, you WERE in that game! I'd forgotten. I don't recall your D1 case on Eevee either, but I won't argue that it wasn't there. It's just enough people read him as town that I didn't explore my feelings about him further until later.

[Insomniac]

Jimmm has got a point there, Robz. As long as you've never pinned me as scum early, you always reading me well pretty much just proves me that "I always act in a certain way, you recognize it and I draw town helluvalot". No proof you'd be able to tell the difference if I was scum yet?

I got weird Vibes from you D1 of "Read the Freakin' Flavor", but nobody else did so I dropped it until I came back, then lynched your scummy tail.

Still, it was far from slamdunk even then, and I wouldn't count on my ability to do so any time you're scum.

Not true, I made the case against Eevee on day 1!

Hey, you WERE in that game! I'd forgotten. I don't recall your D1 case on Eevee either, but I won't argue that it wasn't there. It's just enough people read him as town that I didn't explore my feelings about him further until later.

I think I read Eevee as town there incorrectly but it might have been offset because I thought you were scummy for your pushing Neo so hard when I knew I had eHalcs favourite role in the game.

[Dsell]

@Galz, I was also in Hydra. I was doduo (with Insom) and I did all the posting on the final day.

[Galzria]

@Galz, I was also in Hydra. I was doduo (with Insom) and I did all the posting on the final day.

I never wrapped my head around ANYTHING in Hydra, tbh.

But let's focus, people! This game, here, now!
(This goes for me too)

[Insomniac]

How's this for focus

Vote: Destierro

I know I know its the new guy.

BUT Destierro voted for Dsell when Robz, Eevee, Myself and Sort of Galz had expressed suspicion of Dsell, thus making him the popular opinion and it just seemed a bit opportunistic to vote Dsell there and what I would expect of a newer scum player.

[Jimmmmm]

Welcome to Mafia.

[Dsell]

What am I supposed to do if I have a scum read on Insomniac but it's based almost 100% on meta reasons that other people wouldn't even get?

Because I genuinely think that Insomniac is able to read me better than this, having been scum with me at least a couple times. He's burying his head in the sand and saying I'm scummy, and it feels highly manufactured to me (I think I can read him fairly well too).

But I can see how these would be uncompelling to anyone else.

[Eevee]

What am I supposed to do if I have a scum read on Insomniac but it's based almost 100% on meta reasons that other people wouldn't even get?

Because I genuinely think that Insomniac is able to read me better than this, having been scum with me at least a couple times. He's burying his head in the sand and saying I'm scummy, and it feels highly manufactured to me (I think I can read him fairly well too).

But I can see how these would be uncompelling to anyone else.

Well, he just voted for someone for voting you, which implies he thinks you are town again.

[Dsell]

Actually I think his last post was a pretty good catch. So maybe reconsidering.

[ashersky]

Okay, I'm here, and caught up.

Since I literally invented this set-up, I of course know how to break it.  (Not really.  Well, I did invent it, but not the other part.)

Here's my scum team prediction to go back and check at games end:  Dsell/Eevee/(Insom)

Anyway.  No comment on the masons thing, I watched this unfold the last game and if you really want my thought, you'll see them in the QTs.

I'm actually good with a Vote: Dsell already, after watching his interactions so far in thread, especially with Eevee.  Insom vs. Galz vs. Robz went through my head for the 3rd scum slot, for different reasons.

Insom for not being himself, Galz for being brasher than usual, and Robz for sounded exactly like he did as VT in VII.  I mean EXACTLY.  Which is what scum!Robz would do for sure.

So there we are.


PPE -- Nope, no more confusion on the third scum:

How's this for focus

Vote: Destierro

I know I know its the new guy.

BUT Destierro voted for Dsell when Robz, Eevee, Myself and Sort of Galz had expressed suspicion of Dsell, thus making him the popular opinion and it just seemed a bit opportunistic to vote Dsell there and what I would expect of a newer scum player.

[Robz888]

Jimmm has got a point there, Robz. As long as you've never pinned me as scum early, you always reading me well pretty much just proves me that "I always act in a certain way, you recognize it and I draw town helluvalot". No proof you'd be able to tell the difference if I was scum yet?

Yeah. But the time for me to reconsider my Eevee reading ability will be after he flips scum in a game where I pegged him as town, not before. Like if you had been scum in VI, then kaboom.

[Jimmmmm]

Hi ash! Nice to hear an opinion out of you.

[Dsell]

Ashersky's confidence in this scumteam prediction is laughable.

[ashersky]

Ashersky's confidence in this scumteam prediction is laughable.

Where's Frisk to do his patented quote change?

[Insomniac]

Ashersky's confidence in this scumteam prediction is laughable.

Where's Frisk to do his patented quote change?

He's left us and it's sad, but don't worry I still change people's quotes

[shraeye]

Vote Count 1.2

Dsell (3) - Eevee, Destierro, ashersky
Destierro (1) - Insomniac

Not voting: Dsell, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmmmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 pm forum time.

[Dsell]

Insomniac, Robz, Destierro, Ashersky, and Eevee (and maybe Galz? Not really sure) have all expressed a fair amount of suspicion on me in this game. Within the first few hours.

I suck at playing town.

[Eevee]

Okay Dsell wagon is growing at an alarming rate. L-2!

On first glance ashersky's post feels scummy, I'll try to put my finger on it once I'm done eating.

[Robz888]

Insomniac, Robz, Destierro, Ashersky, and Eevee (and maybe Galz? Not really sure) have all expressed a fair amount of suspicion on me in this game. Within the first few hours.

I suck at playing town.

No, I don't know. I kind of find you less suspicious than ashersky now. Ashersky just zipped in here, called out the scum team, and dropped vote #3 on you.

[Dsell]

I would have been at L-1 had Insomniac not just switched his vote!

[Insomniac]

I would have been at L-1 had Insomniac not just switched his vote!

I never voted for you

[Dsell]

And Asher only addressed Insom's post in a PPE, meaning he was ready to put me at L-1!

[Dsell]

Really? Oh well then nvm.

[Eevee]

Calling ashersky-Destierro-Jimmm then myself!

[Eevee]

ashersky, can you explain why my interactions with Dsell lead you to believe we are a scum pair?

[Dsell]

I think I am down with a vote on Ashersky. My only reservation is that he's done some pretty wild stuff as town before.

[Eevee]

Unvote, Dsell lynch looking not so good anymore. Scyn coordinating everyone suspecting Dsell to get the heat off him in the daychat is a possibility, but I don't believe it's the likeliest one.

[Dsell]

Oh, and I think everyone should follow this:

IF ANYONE HAMMERS BEFORE AT LEAST ONE MASON HAS CLAIMED, I WILL VOTE FOR YOU IN MY FIRST POST TOMORROW. (Assuming I'm alive.)

[Eevee]

Derphammers are and admission of guilt, I agree.

[Dsell]

Where did Ashersky go? He's not logged on anymore.

[Jimmmmm]

Derphammers are and admission of guilt, I agree.

True that.

I would also suggest we avoid putting anyone on L - 1 without giving them a chance to claim.

[Robz888]

I'm going away for awhile now. Don't know if I'll be back tonight, but will be here tomorrow of course.

[ashersky]

Where did Ashersky go? He's not logged on anymore.

I'm here.

[Eevee]

ashersky, can you explain why my interactions with Dsell lead you to believe we are a scum pair?

[ashersky]

ashersky, can you explain why my interactions with Dsell lead you to believe we are a scum pair?

Put it this way--I've watched you play a billion games, and all the Blitz ones.  I feel like I have fairly good insight into the way you interact with the other players...when town.  Because you are always town.

And so your interactions with Dsell, especially early in the day, did not match your normal mode.  Robz pointed it out, in fact, that the way we'll know scum!Eevee is when you act differently.

[Dsell]

Vote: Ashersky

Vagueness is vague.

[Eevee]

ashersky, can you explain why my interactions with Dsell lead you to believe we are a scum pair?

Put it this way--I've watched you play a billion games, and all the Blitz ones.  I feel like I have fairly good insight into the way you interact with the other players...when town.  Because you are always town.

And so your interactions with Dsell, especially early in the day, did not match your normal mode.  Robz pointed it out, in fact, that the way we'll know scum!Eevee is when you act differently.

Robz also pointed out that this isn't different from the town Eevee we all know and love.

I think you had to "invent" reads out of thin air because you are scum.

[ashersky]

Here's a series of Eevee quotes about Dsell.  Now, we all know Eevee's propensity for town!buddying.  This is different.

To try to move the game into a more fruitful direction, Vote: Dsell. Closed my eyes for 15 seconds and thought about the players in here, he felt scummiest.

Well, if no one else has any input on that, I'm going to conclude Robz seems towny to me then.

Galzria, were you joking when you called me jumpy? I still have the bad feeling about Dsell.

Robz is a top town read. Dsell top scum, but it's very slight. Ashersky is probably just asleep, I didn't even remember he was playing but meh. Scummy because he hasnt posted, hopefully this will change soon. Galzria I don't know, don't have a town read on him but his d1 as town has read scummy to me earlier (see the game we just lost one game back). Insomniac is no read yet, which is slightly scummy because I sometimes get town reads from him. New guy is pretty much noread (slight scum), don't think his lurking is scummy yet but not really towny either.

Unvote, Dsell lynch looking not so good anymore. Scyn coordinating everyone suspecting Dsell to get the heat off him in the daychat is a possibility, but I don't believe it's the likeliest one.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.3


Dsell (2) - Destierro, Ashersky
Destierro (1) - Insomniac
Ashersky (1) - Dsell
Not voting: Eevee, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 pm forum time.


Note: Votecount 1.1 (at post #194) had a small error.  The actual number of votes on Dsell at that time (2) was improperly listed as "1".  Post #194 has now been corrected.  If you guys were just being gentle with me 'cause you know I've had a rough day at the Forum, then thanks.

[Eevee]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

[ashersky]

So, either Eevee and Dsell are scum together, or masons together.  Scum is more likely.

[Insomniac]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

[Eevee]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Especially interested in destierro and jimm.

[Dsell]

Ashersky, Eevee doesn't have a history of buddying up to his top scum suspect.

[ashersky]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

[ashersky]

Ashersky, Eevee doesn't have a history of buddying up to his top scum suspect.

That's my point.

[Insomniac]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

I can afford to be more brash when I'm unlynchable

[Dsell]

Ashersky, Eevee doesn't have a history of buddying up to his top scum suspect.

That's my point.

Then why are you saying it's scummy that he wasn't buddying up to me?

My read on Eevee is still pretty neutral, tbh, but you have become by far my biggest scumread with this.

[ashersky]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

I can afford to be more brash when I'm unlynchable

Or when you know you are town.  I think I do the same thing.

I still don't see why people say Mason = IC.  Masons are town-confirmed by one player.  ICs are town-confirmed by the mod.

[Galzria]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Don't like it. If mine eyes do not deceive me, then I see good reasons for Ash to play this way as town. Doesn't make him right, but it makes him less likely to be scum. Impossible? No, of course not. But I'll withhold that judgment until I have more information.

[Dsell]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

I can afford to be more brash when I'm unlynchable

I echo this sentiment, I have played really differently when I've been IC. It's easy to be much less restricted, because you really just want to get everything off the table before you're taken out.

The start of this game has actually been a bit of an awakening to me; I can't be in IC mode (MXI) anymore.

[Insomniac]

Ash the masons can't be counterclaimed in this setup so claiming them makes you an IC. Similarly whenever you claim a role aligned to town in ANY GAME and aren't counterclaimed you are an IC to the town.

[Dsell]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

I can afford to be more brash when I'm unlynchable

Or when you know you are town.  I think I do the same thing.

I still don't see why people say Mason = IC.  Masons are town-confirmed by one player.  ICs are town-confirmed by the mod.

If they are not counterclaimed, then they are the same as ICs. Of course, if scum fakeclaims mason, the real masons are obliged to counterclaim, because otherwise the rest of the town has no choice but to believe the fakeclaim.

[ashersky]

Ashersky, Eevee doesn't have a history of buddying up to his top scum suspect.

That's my point.

Then why are you saying it's scummy that he wasn't buddying up to me?

My read on Eevee is still pretty neutral, tbh, but you have become by far my biggest scumread with this.

To pull a Voltgloss: "Quote me saying that."

My point is that Eevee's interactions with you are unlike his normal interactions with players as town!Eevee.  Town!Eevee is a known buddier.  We all (except newbies) know this.  So we've come to expect it. 

Eevee + Dsell, as I've quoted, is a different type of interaction all together.  He refers to you without addressing you.  He mentions you as an aside in the middle of other paragraphs.  He's made sure that when you flip scum, he can point back to his early suspicions.  That's what I'm seeing.

I'm on the Dsell wagon because it's a wagon.  I'm good to lynch Eevee, too.

[ashersky]

Ash the masons can't be counterclaimed in this setup so claiming them makes you an IC. Similarly whenever you claim a role aligned to town in ANY GAME and aren't counterclaimed you are an IC to the town.

I've theoried out ways that scum could use a fake claim to their advantage in ZMVII.  I don't know if the scum team is bold enough to do it, though.

[Dsell]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Don't like it. If mine eyes do not deceive me, then I see good reasons for Ash to play this way as town. Doesn't make him right, but it makes him less likely to be scum. Impossible? No, of course not. But I'll withhold that judgment until I have more information.

What do you think of the fact that more than half of the players here have thought I'm scummy.

What do you think of Destierro jumping on me when that's the case?

What about Ashersky?

[Galzria]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

[Dsell]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

[Galzria]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

[ashersky]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

Incorrect.  But hey, if the scum team hasn't figured out how to do it, good for us.

[Galzria]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

Incorrect.  But hey, if the scum team hasn't figured out how to do it, good for us.

Ash, I read the Mod QT, and I've gone over this. They simply cannot break it.

If 1 scum claims first, then 1 Mason counters, with the threat of having his buddy back him up. He demands the same from the first claimant. If claimant #1 does not bring in backup, and #2 does, then you've caught your scum. If he DOES, then it's a 50/50 crap shoot D1, that ends in revealing TWO scum with the lynch flip, thus forcing a town win by D3.

If a mason claims first, scum counterclaims, and it works out exactly as above. Prove your second, or you're lying scum.

If a Mason claims, and scum waits until twilight to go "oh btw, I'm the real mason not him, but no time to prove partners", guess what? You've found scum for the next day because the real masons wouldn't wait to counterclaim.

It's a no win scenario for scum to try and game the mason claims. As long as one real mason claims today, all scum can do is out themselves.

[ashersky]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

Incorrect.  But hey, if the scum team hasn't figured out how to do it, good for us.

Ash, I read the Mod QT, and I've gone over this. They simply cannot break it.

If 1 scum claims first, then 1 Mason counters, with the threat of having his buddy back him up. He demands the same from the first claimant. If claimant #1 does not bring in backup, and #2 does, then you've caught your scum. If he DOES, then it's a 50/50 crap shoot D1, that ends in revealing TWO scum with the lynch flip, thus forcing a town win by D3.

If a mason claims first, scum counterclaims, and it works out exactly as above. Prove your second, or you're lying scum.

If a Mason claims, and scum waits until twilight to go "oh btw, I'm the real mason not him, but no time to prove partners", guess what? You've found scum for the next day because the real masons wouldn't wait to counterclaim.

It's a no win scenario for scum to try and game the mason claims. As long as one real mason claims today, all scum can do is out themselves.

Galz, you are too towny for your own good.

I will not post my idea for how scum can successfully use a fake Mason claim to win, because I don't want them to do it.

[Eevee]

Ashersky, are you saying my friendly nature would stop me from pushing Dsell that "hard", so it mus be staged?

Others, do you think it's reasonable of him to assume I must be lying scum because I my suspicions of Dsell?

What I'm getting at is, obviously I still have scum reads and bad feelings too, even if I generally am better at taking town reads. Heck, this game is an example, I have a town read on Robz and mild ones on Galz and Insomniac. Also Dsell is becoming a town read now.

[Dsell]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

[Robz888]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

I also think they are thin, particularly concerning Eevee.

[ashersky]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

I also think they are thin, particularly concerning Eevee.

Feel free to try and lynch me, or possibly re-read Eevee with my comments in mind.

[Robz888]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

I also think they are thin, particularly concerning Eevee.

Feel free to try and lynch me, or possibly re-read Eevee with my comments in mind.

Ok.

[Eevee]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Still really interested in this.

(In general I myself think he is a great guy and an exceptionally superb moderator. In this game I think he seems really scummy, mostly because of his Eevee-Dsell theory, and I think getting an answer to the question above is extremely useful in the quest of hunting for scum / determining today's lynch.)

[ashersky]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Still really interested in this.

(In general I myself think he is a great guy and an exceptionally superb moderator. In this game I think he seems really scummy, mostly because of his Eevee-Dsell theory, and I think getting an answer to the question above is extremely useful in the quest of hunting for scum / determining today's lynch.)

Agree with the part in bold.

[ashersky]

Where is everyone?

[Eevee]

Where is everyone?

I'm here waiting for people to appear and answer my question. :/

[Eevee]

Robz should never leave the forums, everything just dies in here instantly.

[Insomniac]

I'm not opposed to an ashersky lynch but I don't think its particularily strong. I don't like he's trying to call the scum team day 1 but again I don't think that makes him scum

[Galzria]

Where is everyone?

I'm here waiting for people to appear and answer my question. :/

I did! But I'm at dinner now, so not posting everywhere I normally would. I know, FoS dinner.

[Robz888]

Robz should never leave the forums, everything just dies in here instantly.

Dont worry I never will. I didn't like the suddenness of ash's brash reads. Because he wasn't around, so it's not like the organically built up to him calling the team like that, you know? Coming in with "this is my opinion" and it being a fairly comprehensive opinion, I think that's just a bit more likely to be fake than if you were around all day, your reads slowly getting more certain.

[Dsell]

Scummy<-Ashersky----Destierros-----------Insomniac-Jimmmm----Eevee-------------------------Galzria-----Robz----------->Townie

[Eevee]

It's interesting how suddenly Dsell and I have very similar reads/thoughts. I also think similar with Robz and Galzria to an extent, but ashersky and Destierros both being scum caught this effortlessly just feels too easy to be true.

Robz>Dsell>Galzria>Insomniac>Jimmm>ashersky>Destierros for me, towniest to scummiest.

[Dsell]

I will say this for Ashersky: I've just reread Eevee and there has been little to no buddying from him. I'm willing to chock it up to a quick start to the game/theory talk for now, but it is interesting to note.

[Eevee]

I think this thing with me buddying up to everyone
might be blowing out of proportion.

[Dsell]

It's not that you always buddy up to everyone, but it might be something to note that you haven't buddied up to anyone in this game. Or it might not. I'm not sure yet.

[ashersky]

Back from lunch, btw.

I will be around at deadline tomorrow, fyi.  I know this place starts slowing down around now, which is just after 2:00 p.m. here.

Where is everyone else?  We could LaLL at this point.

[Destierro]

Robz should never leave the forums, everything just dies in here instantly.

Dont worry I never will. I didn't like the suddenness of ash's brash reads. Because he wasn't around, so it's not like the organically built up to him calling the team like that, you know? Coming in with "this is my opinion" and it being a fairly comprehensive opinion, I think that's just a bit more likely to be fake than if you were around all day, your reads slowly getting more certain.

See, I don't really see the logic behind this argument. The forum is only 4-5 pages of game, so it's easily read in 10 minutes or so. Add maybe another half hour and a fresh view has the same weight as one who has been following the thread the whole time.

I still think Dsell is the scummiest, but his reactions to being at L-2 appear to be as it would if he were town. Sadly, no one else has stood out to me, so he remains at the top of my list.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like we haven't heard much from jimm. I have 0 read on him, scum or no. Last thing he said was a while ago, and he hasn't really added anything meaningful to the conversation. It's a little disconcerting.

Ash seems to be getting a lot of hate for just pointing out the facts. He seems to be town-sided in all of his arguments, and really doesn't strike me as scum.

[ashersky]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like we haven't heard much from jimm. I have 0 read on him, scum or no. Last thing he said was a while ago, and he hasn't really added anything meaningful to the conversation. It's a little disconcerting.

Good point.  He's at the top of the lurker list, I think.

[Eevee]

Destierro seems to be picking up the game really fast.

.. however, I still think find him pretty scummy. Also disagree on ashersky's LaLL-point, there was plenty of talking earlier when you weren't here and you weren't suspected for it. On top of that guys like me and Dsell have been here posting from the day start pretty much non stop.

Jimms is always on the quieter side, but I do agree his lack of posting is making him look slightly worse. And he wasn't a townread for me earlier.

[Dsell]

Pretty sure that Jimmmm is sleeping now. I'm sure he'll have stuff to say when he gets up.

And Ashersky did a whole lot more than just point out the facts...he called out an entire scumteam on Day 1. A prediction that I know is not true. Nobody's objecting to him listing the facts, but it should be no surprise that calling out a whole scumteam would get a strong reaction.

[Destierro]

I looked in the wiki but couldnt find it, LaLL? What does it mean?

[ashersky]

Btw, should we do that scum reads/town reads thing? I feel like that's a fine and useful tool for town.

Normally we would have the ICs ask, but they haven't claimed, blah blah blah.

Anyway, I'll just start.

Likely Town: Galzria, Eevee, Insomniac (in that order, yes I have a stronger townread on Galz actually)

Lurking Scum (like, what have they even said?): Destierro, ashersky

Non-lurking scum: Jimm, Dsell

At this point I'd guess that the scum team is 3 of Destierro, ashersky, Jimm, and Dsell... based mostly on my townreads of the others.

Eevee, here's me being called out for lurking, which refutes this:

...Also disagree on ashersky's LaLL-point, there was plenty of talking earlier when you weren't here and you weren't suspected for it...

[ashersky]

I looked in the wiki but couldnt find it, LaLL? What does it mean?

Lynch All Lurkers, Literally.

[Dsell]

Lynch all Lurkers, Literally.

Lynch all Lurkers has always been a thing, but LALL is something Robz has been saying since the end of the game he modded, where he had a mod's-eye-view of the entire scumteam lurk every day. Now everyone's picking up on it to emphasize that lurking is really a crime worthy of lynching.

[Destierro]

Ah I see. Well sleeping is perfectly acceptable, but if he doesn't post much tomorrow he's going to look really suspicious.

[ashersky]

And Ashersky did a whole lot more than just point out the facts...he called out an entire scumteam on Day 1. A prediction that I know is not true. Nobody's objecting to him listing the facts, but it should be no surprise that calling out a whole scumteam would get a strong reaction.

Dsell is right here--there should have been a strong reaction to me naming a scum team in my first post.  Am I absolutely correct?  Maybe, maybe not.  But it's a start for where we look, based on what I saw happen up to that point, and a reference point for comparing everything that came after.

[Eevee]

Btw, should we do that scum reads/town reads thing? I feel like that's a fine and useful tool for town.

Normally we would have the ICs ask, but they haven't claimed, blah blah blah.

Anyway, I'll just start.

Likely Town: Galzria, Eevee, Insomniac (in that order, yes I have a stronger townread on Galz actually)

Lurking Scum (like, what have they even said?): Destierro, ashersky

Non-lurking scum: Jimm, Dsell

At this point I'd guess that the scum team is 3 of Destierro, ashersky, Jimm, and Dsell... based mostly on my townreads of the others.

Eevee, here's me being called out for lurking, which refutes this:

...Also disagree on ashersky's LaLL-point, there was plenty of talking earlier when you weren't here and you weren't suspected for it...

To which I answered with "ashersky is probably sleeping, which is a null tell, not a scum tell".

And yeah, ashersky you called the entire scum team on your very first post and it included me who I know to be town and also all your other reads on everything seemed totally different from mine. It just looks bad for you in my eyes.

[Destierro]

I'm out for the night, see you guys tomorrow.

[ashersky]

And yeah, ashersky you called the entire scum team on your very first post and it included me who I know to be town and also all your other reads on everything seemed totally different from mine. It just looks bad for you in my eyes.

Wouldn't you say this if you were scum?

[ashersky]

To which I answered with "ashersky is probably sleeping, which is a null tell, not a scum tell".

Right.  You didn't call me out for it, which I appreciate.  You're good with time zones.  I'm just saying I didn't get a full pass for it either.

[Eevee]

And yeah, ashersky you called the entire scum team on your very first post and it included me who I know to be town and also all your other reads on everything seemed totally different from mine. It just looks bad for you in my eyes.

Wouldn't you say this if you were scum?

I probably would. Stupid post by me. Although not really, if I'm lynched or vengekilled it becomes relevant again.

To which I answered with "ashersky is probably sleeping, which is a null tell, not a scum tell".

Right.  You didn't call me out for it, which I appreciate.  You're good with time zones.  I'm just saying I didn't get a full pass for it either.

You did from me!

Sad to see the action died down from today. 8h 15min until the deadline, I don't know about my access tomorrow, we plan on going christmas shopping in 4 hours and that should last until the deadline. I have access before leaving home, and phone with me the entire time, but can't really be staring at it the entire time now can I?

But, as of now destierro, ashersky, Jimm and maybe-maybe Insomniac have my blessing as lynch targets.

[Eevee]

Robz, Ins, Jimm and Galzria vanishing from the forums when ashersky got in and we could have had everyone there at the same time was unfortunate, but such is blitz.

[Galzria]

I'm here, I'm just mentally fatigued. Is the deadline seriously in 8 hours? I don't think that's right.... That would be shorter than 24 hours...

[Galzria]

No, deadline is in 20 hours. 8:00 PM forum time.

[Eevee]

I suck with the 12 hour clock, sorry for the confusion. That would mean it's in night time for me, which in turn means I'm very likely to be here for that! So, I expect to disappear soonish, then come back with spotty access after waking up and then have a full access closer to the deadline. So, good!

[Eevee]

Any thoughts on recent developments, Galzria?

[Galzria]

Any thoughts on recent developments, Galzria?

Erm, which? I don't think anything has changed since I last posted my reads.

Have we had an "awake" time for all players now? Maybe a post count is in order?

[Galzria]

Just as a useless point of interest:

I love Straight No Chaser.

[Dsell]

Just as a useless point of interest:

I love Straight No Chaser.

Me too! If you mean the a capella group. I am a big fan of a capella music in general.

Ahem.

[Galzria]

Just as a useless point of interest:

I love Straight No Chaser.

Me too! If you mean the a capella group. I am a big fan of a capella music in general.

Ahem.

I do very much indeed.

[Eevee]

Robz: 28
Galzria: 39
Eevee: 59
Jimmmm: 20
Dsell: 55
Destierro: 10
Insomniac: 46
ashersky: 29

[ashersky]

Robz: 28
Galzria: 39
Eevee: 59
Jimmmm: 20
Dsell: 55
Destierro: 10
Insomniac: 46
ashersky: 29

Including pre-game?  I didn't realize Jimmmmm said so much.

[Eevee]

It includes pre-game, and me neither.

[Eevee]

For reference, Frisk has 14.

[Galzria]

Robz: 28
Galzria: 39
Eevee: 59
Jimmmm: 20
Dsell: 55
Destierro: 10
Insomniac: 46
ashersky: 29

Yeah, if I had to pick one person right now to bet the game was town, it would be Eevee. High post count is hard to fake without throwing around useless one-liners, and active, high count Eevee is town.

[Galzria]

Dsell I ALSO think is town, but I need to refresh my scum-Dsell meta. But in RMM: RTFF, he was VERY active and useful in figuring out the setup.

I wouldn't bet the game on this, but it's strong.

[Galzria]

Ashersky I suspect is town, but I'll refine and explain that later. It could definitely be wrong, but for now he's in my town column.

[Galzria]

And that just leaves one town in Jimmmmm, Robz, Insomniac and Destierro.

[Galzria]

And that just leaves one town in Jimmmmm, Robz, Insomniac and Destierro.

If the above were correct, of course.

[Galzria]

Right now I lean towards Robz. But he has fewer posts than I recall, and certainly scum!Robz has perfect town!Robz to base hoods play on from just one game ago. Emulating it wouldn't be a challenge for him. Eh, not sure.

[Eevee]

And that just leaves one town in Jimmmmm, Robz, Insomniac and Destierro.

I can actually live with trying to find scum in that subset (so my town reads on you and Dsell are still alive and kicking). Town read on Robz is dwindling mostly because he hasn't posted and I forget, I think anyways.

I hate to be mean to the new guy but I'll Vote: Destierro before going to sleeps. I really want to see those 4 getting active and saying things tomorrow though!

[Galzria]

Where did everybody go?

[ashersky]

Robz and Jimmmmm are lurking for sure, so are suspect.

Town for me is me, Galz, and Destierro.

Scum = 3 out of Eevee, Dsell, Insom, Robz, and Jimmmmm.

So Galz and I have intersect on Robz and Insom.

[Dsell]

I am here. Absolutely fine with a vote on the new guy. Sorry Destierro!

Vote: Destierro

[Jimmmmm]

Robz and Jimmmmm are lurking for sure, so are suspect.

Lurking or wurking, one or the other.

I'm home and catching up.

[Eevee]

Ashersky, obviously it's been what a couple of hours? Robz is in his conference and Jimmm said he'd be gone too. Obviously not posting doesn't exactly give you any town points, but I don't think anyone is really lurking in this game.

[Eevee]

Pleasantly surprised with how we got this game rolling and reads flying even without the masons claiming.

[Galzria]

Unofficial:

Dsell (2) - Destierro, Ashersky
Destierro (3) - Insomniac, Eevee, Dsell
Not voting: Eevee, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmmmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 pm forum time.

[Galzria]

No Eevee, you don't get a second vote!

[Eevee]

I'm also listed at not voting, not a big deal though obviously.

[ashersky]

Ashersky, obviously it's been what a couple of hours? Robz is in his conference and Jimmm said he'd be gone too. Obviously not posting doesn't exactly give you any town points, but I don't think anyone is really lurking in this game.

Yep.  I didn't vote them, just pointing it out.  I honestly forgot about Robz's conference.  Jimmmmmm works the late shift, too, I think, so that makes sense that he's here.

[Galzria]

I'm also listed at not voting, not a big deal though obviously.

That's what I was referring to. You don't get to cast again.

[Eevee]

No Eevee, you don't get a second vote!

If I did, I'd put it down on Jimmm.

Little uneasy about Dest now. Lets assume he is scum. Would scum Ins plant his vote on him early? Obv ewually interesting is how he'd react to it turning into L-2 wagon, but we dont want to coach him on how to react.

[ashersky]

No Eevee, you don't get a second vote!

If I did, I'd put it down on Jimmm.

Little uneasy about Dest now. Lets assume he is scum. Would scum Ins plant his vote on him early? Obv ewually interesting is how he'd react to it turning into L-2 wagon, but we dont want to coach him on how to react.

Do we want Dest to claim at L-2?

[Eevee]

Do we want both masons to claim now that bases have been established? My answer: dunno. I feel it could be overall helpful, but not claiming could be too. I'm not the best guy to ask this!

[Dsell]

Little uneasy about Dest now. Lets assume he is scum. Would scum Ins plant his vote on him early?

Whenever Insom rolls scum, the first thing he posts in the QT is that he will bus you if you give him reason to.

[Galzria]

No Eevee, you don't get a second vote!

If I did, I'd put it down on Jimmm.

Little uneasy about Dest now. Lets assume he is scum. Would scum Ins plant his vote on him early? Obv ewually interesting is how he'd react to it turning into L-2 wagon, but we dont want to coach him on how to react.

Scum!Ins does nothing but vote his teammates. Recall ZM-VI (I'm still frustrated with that Robz! Big meanie!)? He never made a case for, or voted on, anybody but Munch/Shraeye.

Now, did he get caught? Sure. But not for that reason, and scum still won. What's more, is we won't know the truth until the game is over, so "repeating the play" isn't a dead scum!Ins tell.

But don't think for a moment that he wouldn't do it.

[Dsell]

Well I think Dest went to bed, right? So we should certainly not lynch him before he's back.

[ashersky]

Well I think Dest went to bed, right? So we should certainly not lynch him before he's back.

That is correct.  We should certainly not lynch him.

[Jimmmmm]

Well I can say this much: I still think I'm terrible at reading people. It's funny how everything seems so damn obvious when you know everyone's alignments but now I'm just in the dark on everyone again. Have to get back into the reading and suspecting mindset rather than the making stuff up and hoping people buy it mindset.

Going to have a look at ash and try to answer Eevee's question.

[Eevee]

I'd say we are not lynching anyone before the deadline actually starts to death near, unless we all somehow get online at the same time and hash everything out early. I dont really see this town stalling (with multiple people online, obviously slower moments when no one is around). I think there is still a lot to comment to a lot of people, and the destroyed lynch is not a slam dunk AT ALL. Fos for even suggesting that.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 1.4


Dsell (2) - Destierro, Ashersky
Destierro (3) - Insomniac, Eevee, Dsell
Not voting: Robz888, Galzria, Jimmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 pm forum time.

[Jimmmmm]

My main impression of ash is that he's trying (maybe subconsciously?) to use the fact that he's been modding these games to get, not necessarily Town-cred, but knowledge-cred, if that makes sense? Like this gives him more insight in how to read people and pick out scum. I'm not saying it doesn't, I haven't modded myself, but that's the impression I'm getting. Of course, he could just as easily be doing that as Town as as scum.

[Eevee]

He DID invent the setup though. It's like playing dominion with Donald X. He might not be the absolute best player, but is going to be pretty good by default.

[Jimmmmm]

Not really sure what to make of ash making a scumteam prediction. I mean, he's mostly saying "I'm going to say this now in case I happen to be right so then I'll look awesome after the game." So it's not a particularly strong accusation.

I think probably the reason most people would do this that early in the game as Town would be to gauge people's reaction to it. I think when doing this sort of thing as scum, the general formula is to call out two Towns and one scum. Well that's what I did anyway. Of course, that could mean he could deliberately avoid doing that.

[Jimmmmm]

He DID invent the setup though. It's like playing dominion with Donald X. He might not be the absolute best player, but is going to be pretty good by default.

Yeah, I don't think I disagree. He just seems to be playing on that a little.

[Eevee]

He DID invent the setup though. It's like playing dominion with Donald X. He might not be the absolute best player, but is going to be pretty good by default.

Yeah, I don't think I disagree. He just seems to be playing on that a little.

I agree with that.

[Jimmmmm]

I think my main concern about ash is his supposed plan for scum to successfully claim. I really don't see it. It's not that complicated a game, either, there are what, 5 different possible gamestates:

1) Day 1. We all know fakeclaiming here is doomed to fail.
2) Day 2 after a scum lynch and a Mason vengekill. Again, doomed to fail.
3) Day 2 after a scum lynch and a VT vengekill. Just as doomed.
4) Day 2 after a Town lynch. Well, Town's at lylo here so claiming puts scum at "50%", but we all know that.
5) Day 3. Again at lylo, so again "50%".

tl;dr fakeclaiming is doomed to fail unless Town is at lylo, in which case it's "50%". But that's not news to anyone.

Maybe I should go back and read the QTs as ash has suggested, but unless I've (and everyone else except ash) missed something, it just sort of seems like he's trying to stir us.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.5


Dsell (2) - Destierro, Ashersky
Destierro (3) - Insomniac, Eevee, Dsell

Not voting: Robz888, Galzria, Jimmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (That's about 12 hours and 10 minutes from the timestamp on this post.)

[Destierro]

Well it was not much of a surprise to wake up today and see that two of my top scum reads had voted for me. Apparently they didn't like what I was saying.

Dsell voted for me, only saying that he was "ok" with voting me, but really doesn't say why. Also it seems like there is a lot of agreeing going on between Dsell and Eevee. Considering that they have the same scum reads that contradict mine, ashes, galvs and insom(?)'s that is mighty suspicious. They are either mason pair (extremely unlikely based on their voting so far) or scum pair. I wont go so far as to say that everyone on me is scum, but it is more than likely that at least 2 are, if galv is assumed to be town.

Eevee claiming that he is town proves nothing obviously, as he would respond that way no matter his role. He's still my second top scum read atm.

[Insomniac]

a heads up I will NOT be able to be around at the deadline, staff christmas party today that requires some travelling at 3pm my time so I will be dissapearing around 6pm forum time.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I will be leaving in the next hour, probably very close to 11:30 forum time, and will be gone several hours.  I could return as late as 6:00, though I doubt I will be gone THAT long.  I will be back WELL before the deadline, and the thread will have my undivided attention.

Co-mods are monitoring the thread, and I will post again to confirm my actual departure when it occurs.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Leaving now.

[Robz888]

I'm here, a little annoyed to see the L-word applied to me, I said I would likely be away the rest of the day (and post counts that count pre-game are garbage counts. In 50 games I've never said more than one word in pre-game. That word is "IN." Anything else is pollution.)

I still have massive townreads on Eevee and Galzria. I guess I lean town on Insomniac, though not as strongly. Jimm looks much more like town Jimm from earlier Blitz games than he does like scum Jimm from last game.

But if I am right about ashersky being Town that leaves only two people and they are the two people who have votes against them, so that's impossible. Who am I wrong about?

[Robz888]

Well it was not much of a surprise to wake up today and see that two of my top scum reads had voted for me. Apparently they didn't like what I was saying.

Dsell voted for me, only saying that he was "ok" with voting me, but really doesn't say why. Also it seems like there is a lot of agreeing going on between Dsell and Eevee. Considering that they have the same scum reads that contradict mine, ashes, galvs and insom(?)'s that is mighty suspicious. They are either mason pair (extremely unlikely based on their voting so far) or scum pair. I wont go so far as to say that everyone on me is scum, but it is more than likely that at least 2 are, if galv is assumed to be town.

Eevee claiming that he is town proves nothing obviously, as he would respond that way no matter his role. He's still my second top scum read atm.

You know, I can't really find anything here to criticize. These are valid points.

[Robz888]

My main impression of ash is that he's trying (maybe subconsciously?) to use the fact that he's been modding these games to get, not necessarily Town-cred, but knowledge-cred, if that makes sense? Like this gives him more insight in how to read people and pick out scum. I'm not saying it doesn't, I haven't modded myself, but that's the impression I'm getting. Of course, he could just as easily be doing that as Town as as scum.

I'm pretty sure ash is Town. Like actually more sure than anyone else.

[Robz888]

Blah, I guess I am closest to voting for Dsell. Call it a POE vote. There was like a TOn of discussion about how scummy he is, but now there are noly actually 2 people voting for him.

This may be my bias toward not killing new players talking, though.

Well, Vote: Dsell for now. That may not be a final vote.

A Mason will say something soon, yes?

[Galzria]

I would think we're getting close to one coming out, yes. We're closing in on 8 hours, which in a Blitz game is a lot, but we've got solid points out from everybody now that having someone step forward and start organizing might be worthwhile, so that we make the most of our remaining time.

[Insomniac]

I would think we're getting close to one coming out, yes. We're closing in on 8 hours, which in a Blitz game is a lot, but we've got solid points out from everybody now that having someone step forward and start organizing might be worthwhile, so that we make the most of our remaining time.

I have less than that I have 6

[Eevee]

I'm back with phone now and will have computer access until deadline in 30min. Our mutual townread-club all but has to have some scum in it..

[Robz888]

I'm back with phone now and will have computer access until deadline in 30min. Our mutual townread-club all but has to have some scum in it..

Nah, couldn't be, let's just keep congratulating each other on how townie we are.

[Galzria]

I'm back with phone now and will have computer access until deadline in 30min. Our mutual townread-club all but has to have some scum in it..

Nah, couldn't be, let's just keep congratulating each other on how townie we are.

It is a striking difference to, like, every other game ever. Hey, maybe ZM-VI taught us something about each other... Or maybe there's scum skating by on "yay! Townie reads for all!"

[Eevee]

Town reads, town reads everywhere!

[Destierro]

Well, I suppose there is no better time to say it than now.

I am a Mason.

It was fun playing with you guys, as I am almost certain that by saying this I will be the target for a vengekilling. Clearly I am awful at playing town because I got to L-2 almost immediately!:P I still advocate a Dsell lynch, followed by Eevee as my top two scum picks.

[Insomniac]

Unvote

[Eevee]

Unvote, I was feeling a little uneasy about this even before this actually, mainly because how fast it shot up. I think it's likely either Dsell or Insomniac is scum.

Destierro was actually the read I wasn't comfortable divulging early early in the game. I felt he'd be mafia or a mason based on his posts´, was kinda hoping he'd claim vt. 

I think I agree with Galzria that Dsell is scummiest now, but I don't like agreeing with someone.. Ashersky is one lynch I might be interested in. This is very interesting though!

[Robz888]

Well, I suppose there is no better time to say it than now.

I am a Mason.

It was fun playing with you guys, as I am almost certain that by saying this I will be the target for a vengekilling. Clearly I am awful at playing town because I got to L-2 almost immediately!:P I still advocate a Dsell lynch, followed by Eevee as my top two scum picks.

Okay, interesting.

[Robz888]

So Des, who do you think is suspicious? What do you want us to talk about? You're the boss, now.

[Galzria]

Unvote, I was feeling a little uneasy about this even before this actually, mainly because how fast it shot up. I think it's likely either Dsell or Insomniac is scum.

Destierro was actually the read I wasn't comfortable divulging early early in the game. I felt he'd be mafia or a mason based on his posts´, was kinda hoping he'd claim vt. 

I think I agree with Galzria that Dsell is scummiest now, but I don't like agreeing with someone.. Ashersky is one lynch I might be interested in. This is very interesting though!

You agree with Robz on Dsell, not me - although I'm not as sure now.

[Eevee]

I don't see the upside in the other mason not claiming by the way.  :\

[Insomniac]

Unvote, I was feeling a little uneasy about this even before this actually, mainly because how fast it shot up. I think it's likely either Dsell or Insomniac is scum.

Destierro was actually the read I wasn't comfortable divulging early early in the game. I felt he'd be mafia or a mason based on his posts´, was kinda hoping he'd claim vt. 

I think I agree with Galzria that Dsell is scummiest now, but I don't like agreeing with someone.. Ashersky is one lynch I might be interested in. This is very interesting though!

Interesting because I think this makes it more likely for you and/or Dsell to be scum as you both kind of half heartedly joined the wagon I started with a real case, and I could easily see scum going hey thats a good enough case I'll join in.

[Galzria]

I now consider Ashersky to be scummy, btw. Originally I thought he was a Mason trying to be pushy and see who would take the easy bait of voting him over "daring to call the scum team D1".

With Destierro's reveal, the odds of Ashersky being a Mason are drastically reduced. While it's still possible, I am forced to switch my view of him.

[Destierro]

Town ----Desti----galz----ash-----------robs-----insom--------------eevee---Dsell----Scummy

I dont have a read on Jimm, cause it seems like he's added next to nothing. I think that would put him closer to the scum side though.

[Eevee]

I'm conflicted, otoh i know early votes are good and informational, otoh i'd like to see what happens because it helps determining where i'd want my vote to be.

[Eevee]

Desti, why is Ash towny?

[Robz888]

I now consider Ashersky to be scummy, btw. Originally I thought he was a Mason trying to be pushy and see who would take the easy bait of voting him over "daring to call the scum team D1".

With Destierro's reveal, the odds of Ashersky being a Mason are drastically reduced. While it's still possible, I am forced to switch my view of him.

Uh, yeah. I obviously thought Ash was a Mason, too. If he's not, he's by far my number one choice for scum.

The other Mason should probably just claim, yes? We know it's not Dsell or Insomniac or Eevee, since they voted for Des. It's not me, as I've said. Is there a point to the last one not claiming, really?

[Robz888]

Town ----Desti----galz----ash-----------robs-----insom--------------eevee---Dsell----Scummy

I dont have a read on Jimm, cause it seems like he's added next to nothing. I think that would put him closer to the scum side though.

Desti, in the future, don't actually give us your reads. Keep to yourself and your partner, so you can catch us in traps. Say "X" is scummy, and see who pounces.

[Eevee]

Yeah, especially because Dest gives us town-lists and is forced to either lie or reveal his partner in them. And seriously I don't see the advantage in not claiming anyways.

[Galzria]

I now consider Ashersky to be scummy, btw. Originally I thought he was a Mason trying to be pushy and see who would take the easy bait of voting him over "daring to call the scum team D1".

With Destierro's reveal, the odds of Ashersky being a Mason are drastically reduced. While it's still possible, I am forced to switch my view of him.

Obviously this is a generic. Basically saying: If he IS a Mason, as I thought, then I understood from the start and read correctly. If he's NOT a Mason, he's likely scum.

I don't find room for a VT Ashersky in this game.

[Insomniac]

Vote: Eevee

The complete lack of buddying, the half hearted voting for Desti. Quickly trying to make it that Dsell or I are scum about Desti's reveal. Coupled with the fact that TOO many people want to lynch Dsell, and I think Eevee is a case I like today.

[Galzria]

Vote: Eevee

The complete lack of buddying, the half hearted voting for Desti. Quickly trying to make it that Dsell or I are scum about Desti's reveal. Coupled with the fact that TOO many people want to lynch Dsell, and I think Eevee is a case I like today.

I do find his recent reactions less genuine, fwiw, but he's not bottom of the heap for me yet.

[Robz888]

I now consider Ashersky to be scummy, btw. Originally I thought he was a Mason trying to be pushy and see who would take the easy bait of voting him over "daring to call the scum team D1".

With Destierro's reveal, the odds of Ashersky being a Mason are drastically reduced. While it's still possible, I am forced to switch my view of him.

Obviously this is a generic. Basically saying: If he IS a Mason, as I thought, then I understood from the start and read correctly. If he's NOT a Mason, he's likely scum.

I don't find room for a VT Ashersky in this game.

If Des really wants to keep the last Mason a secret (although it's barely a secret), he could confirm that the other Mason is NOT Ash. If he does that, I would be most comfortable voting for Ash.

[Destierro]

Town ----Desti----galz----ash-----------robs-----insom--------------eevee---Dsell----Scummy

I dont have a read on Jimm, cause it seems like he's added next to nothing. I think that would put him closer to the scum side though.

Desti, in the future, don't actually give us your reads. Keep to yourself and your partner, so you can catch us in traps. Say "X" is scummy, and see who pounces.

Thanks for the tip, didn't really realize this before. It's out there anyways, so oh well.

[Galzria]

Robz, how do you feel about the Insomniac-Dsell interactions? Especially relating to Dsell's "I'm mad at Insomniac, how dare he not read me right!"? Does it feel forced, faked or contrived to you? Or does it feel real?

[Dsell]

Unvote

Well, I thought he was either scum or a mason. Ugh, I feel like all mason talk has been the pink elephant in the room all day. Oh well.

I have to address this post because it's wrong:

Well it was not much of a surprise to wake up today and see that two of my top scum reads had voted for me. Apparently they didn't like what I was saying.

Dsell voted for me, only saying that he was "ok" with voting me, but really doesn't say why. Also it seems like there is a lot of agreeing going on between Dsell and Eevee. Considering that they have the same scum reads that contradict mine, ashes, galvs and insom(?)'s that is mighty suspicious. They are either mason pair (extremely unlikely based on their voting so far) or scum pair. I wont go so far as to say that everyone on me is scum, but it is more than likely that at least 2 are, if galv is assumed to be town.

Eevee claiming that he is town proves nothing obviously, as he would respond that way no matter his role. He's still my second top scum read atm.

These are never the only choices. It's too narrow-minded to look at 2 people with similar reads and say that they MUST be working together because of it. Scum often want to have different opinions from each other, and having the same ideas and reads as someone is just another form of buddying.

That said, despite having nearly the same reads as Eevee recently, I have only had a neutral read on him at best. With Dest being IC, it's very possible that Eevee is scum.

My thoughts on Ashersky are the same as Galz' and Robz'.

[Eevee]

Yeah, I find scum often makes a strategical choice of picking a townie who is wrong and agreeing with his reads.

[Galzria]

Yeah, I find scum often makes a strategical choice of picking a townie who is wrong and agreeing with his reads.

Robz knows it's my favorite scumtell. I point to myself/Joth in M-II, or Robz/Volt in M-II, or Theorel/eHunt in M-IV, or Theorel/Frisk in M-VIII, etc. When two people align on almost everything, usually one is scum, and the other town.

That said, we've seen a lot of town/town buddying lately, so I haven't stuck by the read as hard as I used to. I cannot recall really seeing scum/scum though. Not that it couldn't happen, mind you.

[Insomniac]

I cannot recall really seeing scum/scum though. Not that it couldn't happen, mind you.

Didn't you and Robz scum buddy in a blitz game where you were trying to get SFS under the bus.

[Robz888]

Robz, how do you feel about the Insomniac-Dsell interactions? Especially relating to Dsell's "I'm mad at Insomniac, how dare he not read me right!"? Does it feel forced, faked or contrived to you? Or does it feel real?

I thought Dsell's scorn was pretty fake, in that I didn't actually think he was mad. But I've never seen Dsell get mad before. Maybe he's just a polite angry person.

What brings me to Dsell is really townreads on everyone else. Even Insomniac looks a lot better to me all of a sudden, for almost paradoxical reasons. I do think Eevee is town, but if Eevee were town and Insomniac scum, would Insomniac go after Eevee now? He has to know that's risky, because I have a big townread on Eevee and am inclined to look at Eevee accusations with suspicion. Unless they are both scum (and then why do that?) it looks like a bad move. Which makes me think it's sincere.

[Galzria]

I cannot recall really seeing scum/scum though. Not that it couldn't happen, mind you.

Didn't you and Robz scum buddy in a blitz game where you were trying to get SFS under the bus.

No, I was hard on Robz that whole game. Robz was on SFS. SFS choose two townies. None of us called town reads on each other, just scum.

[Dsell]

Robz, why the town read on Eevee? Where does it stem from?

Also, I very rarely get mad. Although I did fake mad in M-IV at pops.

[Eevee]

Galzria and Robz, do you feel I always read you as towny? Trying to recognize my possible biases.

[Robz888]

Galzria and Robz, do you feel I always read you as towny? Trying to recognize my possible biases.

The Blitz game where me Galz and SFS were mafia, you did read me as scum, but I think it was only after I pushed a case on you. What as your read on me in VIII? I don't remember. I think you may have a me-town bias, yes.

[Robz888]

Robz, why the town read on Eevee? Where does it stem from?

Also, I very rarely get mad. Although I did fake mad in M-IV at pops.

It's just the way he behaves. He had some short sentence earlier, the one where I responded "so town" that is just vintage Eevee.

[Robz888]

Unfortunately I have to disappear now for about 5 hours. Will be back in advance of deadline. I'd like to vote for ash but I have no idea whether he is the other Mason. If he is, I guess I keep my vote for Dsell. I suppose I could vote for Jimm, especialyl if he doesn't ever appear.

[Galzria]

Galzria and Robz, do you feel I always read you as towny? Trying to recognize my possible biases.

You probably do for me, but it's also likely a bias built on my record. The last game I was mafia in was me/Robz/SFS. Prior to that was ZM 1, then BMMMM, and lastly M-II, which you weren't around for. So your bias is based on me almost always BEING town.

[Insomniac]

Bump, we need some more activity in here before I have to go as it draws closer and closer (~4 hours)

What do people think of my Eevee case I think it's better than Dsell on the basis that EVERYONE seems to find him scummy and want to lynch him

[Eevee]

Idk, there was a time when Dsell was a town read for everyone too.

[Galzria]

Bump, we need some more activity in here before I have to go as it draws closer and closer (~4 hours)

What do people think of my Eevee case I think it's better than Dsell on the basis that EVERYONE seems to find him scummy and want to lynch him

I think you very well could be partners with Dsell, tbh. I don't see Eevee being the lynch of the day. Most likely I'll support you/Dsell/Jimmmmm/(Ashersky unless he's a Mason)/maaaaybe Robz.

[Dsell]

Bump, we need some more activity in here before I have to go as it draws closer and closer (~4 hours)

What do people think of my Eevee case I think it's better than Dsell on the basis that EVERYONE seems to find him scummy and want to lynch him

Destierro being IC changes some things in my mind, I now definitely find you townier and Eevee scummier.

I feel like I need to know who the other Mason is at this point, actually, because 1) it will help me know what to think of Ashersky, and 2) it will help me PoE some people.

Right now I think Eevee, Jimmmmmmm scummiest. Agree with others that Asher is either mason or scum.

[Eevee]

Bump, we need some more activity in here before I have to go as it draws closer and closer (~4 hours)

What do people think of my Eevee case I think it's better than Dsell on the basis that EVERYONE seems to find him scummy and want to lynch him

I think you very well could be partners with Dsell, tbh. I don't see Eevee being the lynch of the day. Most likely I'll support you/Dsell/Jimmmmm/(Ashersky unless he's a Mason)/maaaaybe Robz.

Interestingly 100% agreed..

[Dsell]

Bump, we need some more activity in here before I have to go as it draws closer and closer (~4 hours)

What do people think of my Eevee case I think it's better than Dsell on the basis that EVERYONE seems to find him scummy and want to lynch him

I think you very well could be partners with Dsell, tbh. I don't see Eevee being the lynch of the day. Most likely I'll support you/Dsell/Jimmmmm/(Ashersky unless he's a Mason)/maaaaybe Robz.

Interestingly 100% agreed..

Destierro is driving us apart so much...

[Insomniac]

Bump, we need some more activity in here before I have to go as it draws closer and closer (~4 hours)

What do people think of my Eevee case I think it's better than Dsell on the basis that EVERYONE seems to find him scummy and want to lynch him

I think you very well could be partners with Dsell, tbh. I don't see Eevee being the lynch of the day. Most likely I'll support you/Dsell/Jimmmmm/(Ashersky unless he's a Mason)/maaaaybe Robz.

I'm curious as to why you listed me first am I your number 1 scum read? Do you think scum Insom would risk driving a case on an IC? Also if you think Dsell is my partner why haven't I voted for him?

[Galzria]

Bump, we need some more activity in here before I have to go as it draws closer and closer (~4 hours)

What do people think of my Eevee case I think it's better than Dsell on the basis that EVERYONE seems to find him scummy and want to lynch him

I think you very well could be partners with Dsell, tbh. I don't see Eevee being the lynch of the day. Most likely I'll support you/Dsell/Jimmmmm/(Ashersky unless he's a Mason)/maaaaybe Robz.

I'm curious as to why you listed me first am I your number 1 scum read? Do you think scum Insom would risk driving a case on an IC? Also if you think Dsell is my partner why haven't I voted for him?

Wow, a bit defensive. I haven't cast any votes, and didn't indicate I was listing orders.

Why would you push a case on an IC? Because you didn't know he was one. That's why we didn't have them claim early on, so that people would be forced to take stances on unknowns. Scum couldn't skate through by sucking up to the IC's out of the gates. Further, I went out of my way to try and give off Mason vibes, to discourage scum from "picking me" as their "scummy reads". This increased the chances that they would, in fact, pick a real Mason.

Why haven't you voted your "partner"? Because it's something scum!Insomniac CAN do, not WILL do.

[Insomniac]

Not being defensive Galz but up until now you never expressed a desire to vote for me. So it felt a bit outta the blue and something I feel I needed to respond to

[Eevee]

Galzria, you went out of your way to give off mason vibes? I must suck at this because I 100% missed that.

[Galzria]

Galzria, you went out of your way to give off mason vibes? I must suck at this because I 100% missed that.

Well, I went out of my way to detail very precisely exactly what I would be planning on doing if I were a Mason, in the hopes that it would come across as "I'm a mason, who's planning on doing X". Maybe it wasn't quite as much as I thought?

[Dsell]

Galzria, you went out of your way to give off mason vibes? I must suck at this because I 100% missed that.

Well, I went out of my way to detail very precisely exactly what I would be planning on doing if I were a Mason, in the hopes that it would come across as "I'm a mason, who's planning on doing X". Maybe it wasn't quite as much as I thought?

I didn't get mason vibes. Several times I did get vibes that you thought you knew who some of the masons were and wanted to keep to yourself.

[Galzria]

Not being defensive Galz but up until now you never expressed a desire to vote for me. So it felt a bit outta the blue and something I feel I needed to respond to

This was my very first full reads post of the game!:

Btw, should we do that scum reads/town reads thing? I feel like that's a fine and useful tool for town.

Normally we would have the ICs ask, but they haven't claimed, blah blah blah.

Anyway, I'll just start.

Likely Town: Galzria, Eevee, Insomniac (in that order, yes I have a stronger townread on Galz actually)

Lurking Scum (like, what have they even said?): Destierro, ashersky

Non-lurking scum: Jimm, Dsell

At this point I'd guess that the scum team is 3 of Destierro, ashersky, Jimm, and Dsell... based mostly on my townreads of the others.

Let's see....

I don't have any strong town reads, tbh. I can't argue with the LALL list, and I find Dsell less scummy than you make him out to be, but...

Probably Eevee is my Towniest, because he does seem to be happy-go-lucky Eevee - however that HASN'T been the town!Eevee showing up to most games recently, so... I'm wary still.

After Eevee is probably Robz. I honestly want to put Insomniac here, but something about his posts have felt forced. I'll reread and see if I cab put my finger on it.

Then comes Dsell, but I'll admit I have very little Meta information here. I don't know what town!Dsell vs scum!Dsell looks like, but isn't scum!Dsell more lurky? Despite his asking for credit, I do think he deserves some, do there's that.

Fourth is Insomniac. As stated above, he's felt a little forced, but I can't put my finger on it.

Jimmmmm/Ashersky/Destierro I've got nothing on, but one is likely to be town, and maybe two. I doubt very much that paints the scum team.

[Insomniac]

Let's see....

I don't have any strong town reads, tbh. I can't argue with the LALL list, and I find Dsell less scummy than you make him out to be, but...

Probably Eevee is my Towniest, because he does seem to be happy-go-lucky Eevee - however that HASN'T been the town!Eevee showing up to most games recently, so... I'm wary still.

After Eevee is probably Robz. I honestly want to put Insomniac here, but something about his posts have felt forced. I'll reread and see if I cab put my finger on it.

Then comes Dsell, but I'll admit I have very little Meta information here. I don't know what town!Dsell vs scum!Dsell looks like, but isn't scum!Dsell more lurky? Despite his asking for credit, I do think he deserves some, do there's that.

Fourth is Insomniac. As stated above, he's felt a little forced, but I can't put my finger on it.

Jimmmmm/Ashersky/Destierro I've got nothing on, but one is likely to be town, and maybe two. I doubt very much that paints the scum team.

I don't see how wanting to be second and being 4th turns into willing to lynch but eh

[Galzria]

You were at the bottom, with three people I had no data points on below you. As I commented in that post, one of those three was likely town (Destierro is), and potentially two (my guess now is that's where the other Mason resides).

What's that leave? Dsell/Insomniac/X on the bottom. My only read that's really changed is that Robz is too damn good, and I -never- feel comfortable with my reads on him.

[Insomniac]

Also you claimed you were gonna reread to see if you could put a finger on it for my posting feeling different, what was the result?

[Galzria]

Also you claimed you were gonna reread to see if you could put a finger on it for my posting feeling different, what was the result?

The result was that you do indeed seem off, but that I can't quite put my finger on it. The closest I came was watching your interactions with Dsell, which felt forced, and I pointed that out already.

[Dsell]

If Ashersky is not the mason, he is obvscum, so on the assumption that Ashersky is a mason...well I can see why this setup is so tense.

Destierro/(Ashersky) - IC

I am town and I believe Robz is town. I could be wrong about Robz.

Insomniac seems like town now. He seems very much like his usual town self now, but he is a strong mafia player who could certainly emulate his town play as scum. I still don't like that he suspected me early on, but I'm willing to look past that because he's made a lot more posts that seem pretty townie.

...and crap. If those two reads are right, they are the only other townies.

My next strongest town read (who I actually have a hard time classifying) is Galzria. He seems genuinely townie, but I am not good at reading him. I think he could fool me easily. I think he'll always be my biggest question mark.

Which leaves Eevee and Jimmmmmmmmm. I have always had a neutral read on Eevee and have had mostly no read on Jimmmmm except that he's lurking some.

I think it's pretty likely that these bottom two are both scum, though.

[Eevee]

Lol, calling anyone "obvscum" at this point is quite preposterous. I do suspect ashersky a fair bit as well.

My town reads:
Galzria
Robz

Hard to read / scummy
Insomniac
Dsell

Scummy
Jimmm
Ashersky

[Dsell]

I think it's more likely that Ashersky is the other mason. But have you read some of his earlier posts? He is obviously setting up to claim mason. (The reason I think it's true is because of his interactions with Destierro.) But if he is not the mason then he needs to give some serious explanation for why he was softclaiming mason SO MUCH.

[Eevee]

I can agree him being the 2nd mason being quite likely. What I don't agree with is that he'd be OBVSCUM. Only obv here is Dest's towniness.

[Galzria]

I wonder if Ashersky will enjoy how much people are calling his earlier play obvMason as much as I am... Especially because these same people had him listed as scum before Destierro claimed and the field narrowed.

[Dsell]

I wonder if Ashersky will enjoy how much people are calling his earlier play obvMason as much as I am... Especially because these same people had him listed as scum before Destierro claimed and the field narrowed.

I knew almost immediately that he was either mason or scum, I just didn't think he'd be as obvious about it if he were mason.

[Dsell]

Vote: Jimmmmmm

I feel there's a chance that Eevee is town, really don't think so with Jimmmm.

[Eevee]

Dsell you are awfully awfully sure about things..

[Dsell]

Well if Ashersky is a mason, I have better than a 50% chance of picking out scum, plus my reads. And I don't think my reads are that bad.

Although I'm looking back and reconsidering my strong town read on Robz. Not willing to abandon it yet, but looking back at it carefully.

[Galzria]

So... I don't know. Of my bottom 3, I think that I do find Insomniac the most scummy, especially after that last round of posts.

I'm going to vote Insomniac, but I would like to have a discussion on Jimmmmm too. I think a lot of these "too many people are willing to vote" people are just as likely to be scum as town. Quite simply, words are cheap, and easy to bandy around. Actions and votes speak a whole lot louder - and what's more, scum don't have their backs to a wall yet, so they can absolutely be bussing, especially if their doing so makes people go "stop, too many people want X dead for X to be scum!"

My point is... Take wagons or willingness to vote with a large grain of salt.

Vote: Insomniac

[Jimmmmm]

Hey guys, I'm here but not for long. Sorry I haven't been that active - I've had too much on. Doing an Eevee read now.

[Jimmmmm]

Update: just found out my shifts today and tomorrow have been cancelled, so I should be here until deadline now.

[Eevee]

Jimmms absence is in line with his behavior in all the other games fwiw, I don't feel he has been particularly lurky here.

[ashersky]

Here now.  I confirm Dest is a Mason.

Dsell/Insom/Eevee still are my top lynch choices, now in that order.  I've read up to here to gauge reactions.  Love that everyone who said I was sooooo scummy is now like "oh yeah, he's probably the other mason..."

Best bet for VTs are Galz/Robz/Jimmmmm....I don't think Jimmmmmm lurks intentionally as scum this game after his experience in VII.

[Dsell]

No, you WERE scummy. The other option was that you were just softclaiming mason, but hey, we weren't supposed to talk about that. There's no need to softclaim mason either, so I still don't know what that was about.

This is starting to get really frustrating because both of our ICs are pushing for me, and they're both wrong.

[Jimmmmm]

And by the end of the day you'll know one. With the Masons deciding which is best to step forward, and at what time.

Yes. One will claim by the end of the day, making both IC's tomorrow no matter what happens.

Eevee, I think this is what Galz was talking about. When I saw them I kind of thought "Oh I guess that mean Galz is obvMason, which probably means he isn't."

[ashersky]

No, you WERE scummy. The other option was that you were just softclaiming mason, but hey, we weren't supposed to talk about that. There's no need to softclaim mason either, so I still don't know what that was about.

This is starting to get really frustrating because both of our ICs are pushing for me, and they're both wrong.

That's actually possible.  I was scummy-seeming, maybe, to gauge reactions.  It worked, in my opinion.  But now folks can go back and re-read all our interactions with the knowledge that Dest and I are Masons and see where it leads them.

[Eevee]

ashersky, the reason I concluded you are more likely to be the 2nd mason was just poe/knowing my own role combined with Dest having a nonexpained town read on you.

Assume I'm town, should I be more or less likely to trust the IC's on Dsell given that they are wrong about me?

[Eevee]

Well, I know I had a scum read on both the IC's...

[ashersky]

Well, I know I had a scum read on both the IC's...

So it is possible the ICs have wrong reads, as we've seen.

Here's what you should know about my posts specifically while re-reading.  My scumteam prediction was ridiculous, but based on my reads to that point.  So I did think those three were the scummiest at the time.  My scumteam prediction in my first post today is based on the same stuff.

I was a bit forceful and out there with some ideas to see how people would react, especially the fake claiming stuff.  Scum didn't bite, but I think it helped clear Galz in my mind.

Read it knowing I was doing it on purpose, and gauge how others reacted.  Think about how you would react as scum.  I think it's all there to be found.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.6


Dsell (3) - Destierro, Ashersky, Robz888
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (1) - Dsell
Insomniac (1) - Galzria

Not voting: Jimmm, Eevee

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 3 hours and 23 minutes from the timestamp on this post)

[Dsell]

If I am the lynch today, be VERY suspicious of whoever puts me at L-1 and hammers me.

[Eevee]

If I am the lynch today, be VERY suspicious of whoever puts me at L-1 and hammers me.

This sounds like you are threatening people

[Dsell]

I was a bit forceful and out there with some ideas to see how people would react, especially the fake claiming stuff.  Scum didn't bite, but I think it helped clear Galz in my mind.

How did this give you a town read on Galz? I mean, yes he did his due diligence, but scumGalz is totally capable of that.

[Eevee]

"townies if you vote for me you run the risk of me flipping town and you getting suspected"

why would you be especially suspicious? or VERY suspiciou like you put it.

[Dsell]

If I am the lynch today, be VERY suspicious of whoever puts me at L-1 and hammers me.

This sounds like you are threatening people

I am a lil bit! If town refuses to vote for me, it forces scum to occupy those last two spots.

But really, the ideal thing is for me not to be lynched at all. I really think that both you and Jimmm are probably scum, so I advocate lynching either of you.

[Dsell]

"townies if you vote for me you run the risk of me flipping town and you getting suspected"

why would you be especially suspicious? or VERY suspiciou like you put it.

Both ICs are already voting for me. It is so so easy for scum to get behind a mislynch that both ICs have already endorsed.

[Eevee]

A lynch with two IC's is BETTER because I can know it's not scum driven.

[Insomniac]

So I'm not sure I'll be able to commit too much to this game now I've had some RL stuff come up thats quite important, so if someone wants to replace in thats fine, otherwise I'll do my best

[Galzria]

So I'm not sure I'll be able to commit too much to this game now I've had some RL stuff come up thats quite important, so if someone wants to replace in thats fine, otherwise I'll do my best

I hope everything is ok.

[Eevee]

Yeah obv just take care of your IRL stuff, hope it's nothing too bad.

I don't think we necessarily need a replacement even, Insomniac has given us plenty of content this far. Would obviously be better though, and not too hard to find to a game this small.

[Galzria]

Ash, I don't recall, but were you in Chicken Mafia (I get so lost with these games after they're done)?

The two biggest things I have against Insomniac are:

A) That his play was very off-putting early on. That's a little harder to pinpoint, but I've been decent at gut reading Insomniac lately. His interactions with Dsell were particularly... Forced sounding to me.

B) And this is why I ask about Chicken Mafia - but town!Insomniac is an extremely reactionary and passionate player. He doesn't take kindly to being voted on, and yells and screams when people make what he feels are bad cases on him. He hasn't at all done this here. Yes, he was a LITTLE jumpy when I listed him as possible scum and lynch target, but after I explained I got a "well, I didn't get that from before, but ok".

I just really feel like I'm looking at calculating scum!Insomniac, not play by your passion town!Insomniac.

I'm willing to vote Dsell, but his reaction to being voted by the IC's reads a little more townie than Insomniac's reactions.

---

Insomniac, if something is wrong, I'm truly sorry. I'm not picking on you because of it, and it has no bearing on my case here. We really don't want to lose you too.

[Dsell]

A lynch with two IC's is BETTER because I can know it's not scum driven.

Not scum driven, but very possibly scum finished. Which is why I'm telling people to be very suspicious of those who finish up my lynch.

Actually, scum is in an interesting position here. They know that both ICs are on the lynch, so that's a good excuse for getting on the lynch, EXCEPT that when I flip town, that means that the other 3 people on the lynch will be analyzed even more. So I'm not sure whether scum has incentive to get on my lynch or not, but my original point (be suspicious of those who finish my lynch) still stands.

I echo Galz when I say that I hope everything is alright for you, Insom.

[Jimmmmm]

Just re-read Eevee, and most of it seemed pretty genuine, I think. I feel like this is more normal Eevee than we've seen in the last couple of games, although he was Town in those game so I don't know.

I would like an explanation on this:

Lol, calling anyone "obvscum" at this point is quite preposterous. I do suspect ashersky a fair bit as well.

My town reads:
Galzria
Robz

Hard to read / scummy
Insomniac
Dsell

Scummy
Jimmm
Ashersky

Jimmms absence is in line with his behavior in all the other games fwiw, I don't feel he has been particularly lurky here.

Eevee, if your problem is not with my post count what is it? Or is it just elimination/wanting to have two in each category?

[Jimmmmm]

So I'm not sure I'll be able to commit too much to this game now I've had some RL stuff come up thats quite important, so if someone wants to replace in thats fine, otherwise I'll do my best

I hope everything is ok.

Yeah, this.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, time to read Dsell and then Insom.

Pre-re-read thought on Dsell:

Could it possibly be a scum ploy to see a little heat on Dsell, and then deliberately push that further to make it look like scum are trying to lynch him ala Eevee's "Okay Dsell wagon is growing at an alarming rate. L-2!"?

[Eevee]

A lynch with two IC's is BETTER because I can know it's not scum driven.

Not scum driven, but very possibly scum finished. Which is why I'm telling people to be very suspicious of those who finish up my lynch.

Actually, scum is in an interesting position here. They know that both ICs are on the lynch, so that's a good excuse for getting on the lynch, EXCEPT that when I flip town, that means that the other 3 people on the lynch will be analyzed even more. So I'm not sure whether scum has incentive to get on my lynch or not, but my original point (be suspicious of those who finish my lynch) still stands.

I echo Galz when I say that I hope everything is alright for you, Insom.

Well, for me as a townie the situation is that there are two confirmed townies voting for you. Usually a wagon that large is concerning because it's likely scum driven, here I KNOW that's not the case. So stop trying to spin it around, what you say applies to every wagon ever.

[Eevee]

Just re-read Eevee, and most of it seemed pretty genuine, I think. I feel like this is more normal Eevee than we've seen in the last couple of games, although he was Town in those game so I don't know.

I would like an explanation on this:

Lol, calling anyone "obvscum" at this point is quite preposterous. I do suspect ashersky a fair bit as well.

My town reads:
Galzria
Robz

Hard to read / scummy
Insomniac
Dsell

Scummy
Jimmm
Ashersky

Jimmms absence is in line with his behavior in all the other games fwiw, I don't feel he has been particularly lurky here.

Eevee, if your problem is not with my post count what is it? Or is it just elimination/wanting to have two in each category?

Well, when you've been online I've actually found your contributions good. Which is towny. And I don't blame you for not being online when everyone else is, that's just timezones/tough luck/different online habits.

I guess it' mostly a combination of PoE and knowing how well you sounded towny in the last game when you were scum. You are for sure a calculating and strong scum player who knows his town meta and how to emulate it. I have zero doubt in my mind you'd lurk any more as scum, in fact I'd expect you to play just this way. Problem with this game though, everyone is so good that it applies to all of you. I'm quite certain at least one of my town read trio, Galzria Robz and Dsell, is scum. I'm leaning towards Dsell (then Robz, Galzria still he strongest town read). If I had to call the scum team now, I'd say Dsell-Jimmmm-Insomniac, but I don't really know. And I am worried I just have a town bias for the way Galzria and Robz ALWAYS play this game.

[Insomniac]

Thanks all for the concern, needless to say everything SHOULD be ok but I have to do everything in my power to make sure that is the case. Don't think I'm leaving forum mafia just have some things to deal with in RL that are going to make the time I can contribute here less.


Galz I do not think you are picking on me, you had a scum read on me before my personal issue came up which is RL not Mafia related.

My rebuttal is that its hard to overreact to a gut feeling, there is no case there nothing I can do to make you think your gut is wrong. I argue that my interactions with Dsell were not fake and I did and still do find him scummy but I thought I had something with Desti, and I think Eevee is the scummier of the two

[Dsell]

A lynch with two IC's is BETTER because I can know it's not scum driven.

Not scum driven, but very possibly scum finished. Which is why I'm telling people to be very suspicious of those who finish up my lynch.

Actually, scum is in an interesting position here. They know that both ICs are on the lynch, so that's a good excuse for getting on the lynch, EXCEPT that when I flip town, that means that the other 3 people on the lynch will be analyzed even more. So I'm not sure whether scum has incentive to get on my lynch or not, but my original point (be suspicious of those who finish my lynch) still stands.

I echo Galz when I say that I hope everything is alright for you, Insom.

Well, for me as a townie the situation is that there are two confirmed townies voting for you. Usually a wagon that large is concerning because it's likely scum driven, here I KNOW that's not the case. So stop trying to spin it around, what you say applies to every wagon ever.

No it doesn't! ICs put us in a weird situation here. In a normal game, the whole wagon is up for analysis. Here, the ICs obviously aren't up for analysis, meaning more pressure on the other people involved in a mislynch. But it also gives the perfect excuse. I don't know, point to the exact thing I said that can be applied to every wagon, rather than just bashing my argument.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Approximately 2.5 hours to deadline.

[Eevee]

Well, sounded to me like you were saying townies should think especially hard before joining this wagon. I say it's the opposite, this is actually a lot better for a townie than your standard wagon because you know it isn't driven by malicious intent. If you got to 3 votes without IC's participating, I'd be worried at how easy it seems to be to lynch you. Now I just know 2 IC's and Robz of unknown alignment agree with my concern about you.

[Dsell]

Well, sounded to me like you were saying townies should think especially hard before joining this wagon. I say it's the opposite, this is actually a lot better for a townie than your standard wagon because you know it isn't driven by malicious intent. If you got to 3 votes without IC's participating, I'd be worried at how easy it seems to be to lynch you. Now I just know 2 IC's and Robz of unknown alignment agree with my concern about you.

That would be true if it wasn't a mislynch, but it is. Obviously only myself and scum know that at this point, but I strongly urge the VTs to avoid my lynch because our ICs are wrong. And because no matter what, I am going to argue to my grave that whoever finishes up my lynch should come under heavy scrutiny.

That said, I advocate lynching Jimmm or Eevee over myself.

[Galzria]

Fascinating. Tell me if I'm crazy (from my perspective, of course):

Dsell (3): Ashersky, Destierro, Robz

Expressed willingness to vote Dsell: Eevee, Insomniac, Me.

No input yet: Jimmmmm

Now, I know that I'm town. So:

If Dsell is town, and Robz/Eevee/Insomniac are scum, then the entire scum team has expressed interest in lynching a single townie. This seems highly unusual to me. Scum generally spread their voices around a bit more. If Dsell were to flip town, those 3 would look much worse.

So I can't believe that scum!trio is accurate. This means that if Dsell is town, then one of those 3 is likely also town. That means Jimmmmm must be scum.

Is it fair to say that Town!Dsell = Scum!Jimmmmm (again, from my perspective), or am I missing something? Am I wrong to think that Robz/Eevee/Insomniac is unlikely based on their stated desire to lynch Dsell?

Of course, Dsell being scum is entirely different. Oddly, I find Jimmmmm more likely to be scum here as well, but wouldn't bet on it. It's just that if Dsell is scum, I don't see BOTH of his partners expressing interest in his lynch now.

[Dsell]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

[Insomniac]

So I have to leave and won't be back before deadline, I prefer an Eevee lynch but it doesn't seem likely should I put my vote somewhere else?

[Dsell]

I prefer Jimmmmm but I'd vote Eevee too.

Insom, do you have a town read on Jimmm?

[Galzria]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

Not yet, because I don't know if my thought process is crazy or not, and would rather hear from our IC's first.

[Destierro]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

Not yet, because I don't know if my thought process is crazy or not, and would rather hear from our IC's first.

I dont think so. This seems more likely to have to conf town on a scum, and one non conf town. I think dsell is a good lynch

[Eevee]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

[Dsell]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

I know I'm being annoying, but I'm doing what's best for my team.

[Dsell]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

Not yet, because I don't know if my thought process is crazy or not, and would rather hear from our IC's first.

I dont think so. This seems more likely to have to conf town on a scum, and one non conf town. I think dsell is a good lynch

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here? Is Galz' reasoning for thinking Jimmm is scum good reasoning or bad reasoning?

[Eevee]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

I know I'm being annoying, but I'm doing what's best for my team.

So you are scum?

I mean in the grand scheme of things, town absolutely hates you using that argument because it makes you harder to lynch when you are scum. Which seems quite likely from my perspective (not super likely but you know, a good possibility).
Why is you saying that a towny thing? It is even better for your team if you are scum, you know...

[Insomniac]

I have no read on Jimmm probably slight scum

[Dsell]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

I know I'm being annoying, but I'm doing what's best for my team.

So you are scum?

I mean in the grand scheme of things, town absolutely hates you using that argument because it makes you harder to lynch when you are scum. Which seems quite likely from my perspective (not super likely but you know, a good possibility).
Why is you saying that a towny thing? It is even better for your team if you are scum, you know...

Man, you just listed me in your top 3 town reads.

I'm quite certain at least one of my town read trio, Galzria Robz and Dsell, is scum. I'm leaning towards Dsell (then Robz, Galzria still he strongest town read).

Yeah you said I was most likely scum of those reads, but those reads came from somewhere.


But as for the grander scheme of things, you are probably right. But man, when I am at L-2 I don't care about the grand scheme of things, I care about not putting town at LYLO in THIS game. And if town does go to LYLO, I want to make sure town makes the best decision.

[Eevee]

Yes, but that's basically you saying "I threaten all the townies who are contemplating voting on me, because I am town!". Excuse us if we don't take your word for it. It's just such a null statement.

[Dsell]

Since I am town, I am threatening more scum than town.

But I don't even think it's such a crazy statement. It's just a reinforcement of what you would probably have done anyway. If you lynch me, I'll flip town, and then of course you'll heavily examine the non-ICs on my wagon. It's just a matter of trying to get townies not to make the mistake of joining this wagon and scaring scum away from it.

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read Dsell, and I didn't see anything that jumped out on me until his last few posts. There seems to be a sort of change in his tact, from seemingly genuine scumhunting to defensive wriggling to try to avoid being lynched. I mean, obviously that's what he's trying to do, and this could come from either a Town or scum perspective. Again, I don't particularly like anyone going on about how Towny they are.

So I think Dsell's more likely scum than Eevee, but I'm very far from convinced. I'm not sure the early wagon on him was entirely warranted, so FoS that I suppose.

[Dsell]

I realize that this is a bad argument to make, in general. Scum can do this to try to wriggle out of a lynch. I would be upset at me for making this argument. But here and now, if you lynch me the townies will soon know what I know and what scum knows too: that I'm town. And then town's at lylo. Our ICs are making a huge mistake and I hope the town will recognize that before making the mistake of lynching me.


I'm done defending myself. Everything I've said stands, I am the wrong lynch and advocate Jimmmm or Eevee instead. I'll probably reread them now to see if I can get anything more on them.

[Dsell]

So I think Dsell's more likely scum than Eevee, but I'm very far from convinced. I'm not sure the early wagon on him was entirely warranted, so FoS that I suppose.

The early wagon on me? The wagon that consisted of Eevee, Destierro, and Ashersky?

VOTE: JIMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Dsell]

For reference:

Vote Count 1.2

Dsell (3) - Eevee, Destierro, ashersky
Destierro (1) - Insomniac

Not voting: Dsell, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmmmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 pm forum time.

[Galzria]

Since I am town, I am threatening more scum than town.

But I don't even think it's such a crazy statement. It's just a reinforcement of what you would probably have done anyway. If you lynch me, I'll flip town, and then of course you'll heavily examine the non-ICs on my wagon. It's just a matter of trying to get townies not to make the mistake of joining this wagon and scaring scum away from it.

But it's a completely null argument. Eevee is correct. You can sit there and say "I'm town" until you're blue and it won't make it any more or less true. And saying "oooh, you'll be suspicious if you vote me" is ridiculous. What happens when.... I say it later when there's a wagon on me? Or Eevee does? Robz? Jimm? Insomniac?

It adds no value to the conversation. More than that though, rather than trying to give reads, analysis, etc, you're trying to win a battle through fear. This is much more a fallback option for scum, who have no real cases to make, than for town.

[Eevee]

So I think Dsell's more likely scum than Eevee, but I'm very far from convinced. I'm not sure the early wagon on him was entirely warranted, so FoS that I suppose.

The early wagon on me? The wagon that consisted of Eevee, Destierro, and Ashersky?

VOTE: JIMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Goooood catch Dsell! Jimmm, explain?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

90 minutes to deadline

[Jimmmmm]

Ah well there you go. I've been reading more about the wagon than the wagon itself (I was reading Dsell's posts), I guess it's been made a bigger deal than it actually was, sorry for perpetuating that. Do we include suspicions as part of the wagon? I don't know.

Dsell, big bold and lots of 'm's still only count as one vote, right?

[Robz888]

I'm here. Let me catch up...

[Galzria]

Where the heck is Ashersky?

[Dsell]

Galz, what are your thoughts on the latest from Jimmmmmmm?

[Jimmmmm]

Also, by "early", I didn't mean in the context of the game so far, I meant in the context of the game as a whole, it's still early. So no, I wasn't talking about the wagon with three people, I was talking about the one that got to L - 2 (and you thought nearly got to L - 1), but I was unaware there were two separate wagons.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm actually a fair bit more suspicious of Dsell now. His blowup at me reads to me like he's thinking "Yes! Here's something that I can work with, let's make that sounds really scummy."

[Dsell]

Also, by "early", I didn't mean in the context of the game so far, I meant in the context of the game as a whole, it's still early. So no, I wasn't talking about the wagon with three people, I was talking about the one that got to L - 2 (and you thought nearly got to L - 1), but I was unaware there were two separate wagons.

Oh this is so phony.

So then you are referencing the most recent L-2 wagon on me, which consists of Destierro, Ashersky, and Robz.

Vote Count 1.6


Dsell (3) - Destierro, Ashersky, Robz888
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (1) - Dsell
Insomniac (1) - Galzria

Not voting: Jimmm, Eevee

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 3 hours and 23 minutes from the timestamp on this post)

[Eevee]

I think Jimmm and Dsell being from the same team is almost impossible. Especially if one of them is scum.

[ashersky]

I'm here, but very busy.  Following though.

Jimmmmm also does look bad at this point--could be bussing each other hard at this point.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I am going back to look at the wagons. Chill out, bro. You're just jumping on the fact that I'm a little uninformed about the wagons themselves.

Yes, you're right. A Mason/Mason/X wagon is not particularly suspect. The way you were saying it, you were really close to being lynched.

Also, I forgot the 3 was L - 2. 

[Dsell]

Also, by "early", I didn't mean in the context of the game so far, I meant in the context of the game as a whole, it's still early. So no, I wasn't talking about the wagon with three people, I was talking about the one that got to L - 2 (and you thought nearly got to L - 1), but I was unaware there were two separate wagons.

The wagon that I thought almost went to L-1 was the first wagon I posted: Eevee, Destierro, Ashersky. I was suspicious of Ashersky because I thought he was willing to take me to L-1. I was wrong about that because Insom had never voted for me. Destierro and Ashersky have always been on the wagon. You WERE talking about that wagon, though. So, ya know, you're lying.

[Galzria]

I think Jimmm and Dsell being from the same team is almost impossible. Especially if one of them is scum.

You just figured that out?

Fascinating. Tell me if I'm crazy (from my perspective, of course):

Dsell (3): Ashersky, Destierro, Robz

Expressed willingness to vote Dsell: Eevee, Insomniac, Me.

No input yet: Jimmmmm

Now, I know that I'm town. So:

If Dsell is town, and Robz/Eevee/Insomniac are scum, then the entire scum team has expressed interest in lynching a single townie. This seems highly unusual to me. Scum generally spread their voices around a bit more. If Dsell were to flip town, those 3 would look much worse.

So I can't believe that scum!trio is accurate. This means that if Dsell is town, then one of those 3 is likely also town. That means Jimmmmm must be scum.

Is it fair to say that Town!Dsell = Scum!Jimmmmm (again, from my perspective), or am I missing something? Am I wrong to think that Robz/Eevee/Insomniac is unlikely based on their stated desire to lynch Dsell?

Of course, Dsell being scum is entirely different. Oddly, I find Jimmmmm more likely to be scum here as well, but wouldn't bet on it. It's just that if Dsell is scum, I don't see BOTH of his partners expressing interest in his lynch now.

But Scum/Scum is still very viable.

[Dsell]

I think Jimmm and Dsell being from the same team is almost impossible. Especially if one of them is scum.

Eevee is not sure whether to take his scumbuddy's side and doesn't know what to say, so he posts this to look like he's contributing.

[Robz888]

The only thing that REALLY caught my eye in the re-read was this:

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

I know I'm being annoying, but I'm doing what's best for my team.

In M-XI, everybody treated the "team" terminology as a scumtell.

[Robz888]

So other than that, Dsell does look townier to me than before, but not necessarily townier than anyone else (knowing now that Ash is Mason).

I do think Jimm and Dsell are from other factions. If we stick with the Dsell lynch, which is still my best guess, I would strongly consider Jimm tomorrow if Dsell is town. If Dsell is scum, I will treat Jimm like IC practically. I don't think we're being gamed if we operate like that.

But then the question becomes, who is who's potential scummates? And I really don't know. But if Jimm and Dsell are not on the same faction, some read is wrong somewhere concerning Ins or Galz or Eevee.

[Dsell]

Chill out, bro.

Yes, I am getting excited and worked up here. Sorry, nothing personal of course.

Doesn't change the fact that you're scum, but I'll try to cool off.

[Robz888]

So if Jim and Dsell are one town/one scum... then 2 of Galz/Eevee/Ins (each of them could switch me in instead) are scum? I'm not missing someone, am I? Wow.

[Galzria]

So if Jim and Dsell are one town/one scum... then 2 of Galz/Eevee/Ins (each of them could switch me in instead) are scum? I'm not missing someone, am I? Wow.

They could both be scum. Not town though, since I don't believe Robz/Eevee/Insomniac is possible.

[Dsell]

Guys, Jimmmmm just made what's practically a scumslip.

He FOS'd a wagon that contained 2 ICs and the person he'd JUST said was townier than me.

He later said that wasn't the wagon he was referencing, but THAT contradicted his statement about the wagon almost getting to L-1.

[Robz888]

So if Jim and Dsell are one town/one scum... then 2 of Galz/Eevee/Ins (each of them could switch me in instead) are scum? I'm not missing someone, am I? Wow.

They could both be scum. Not town though, since I don't believe Robz/Eevee/Insomniac is possible.

But why does Dsell make Jimm his target if they are both scum? That doesn't make sense.

[Galzria]

I actually agree with Dsell about Jimmm. It's just I think he might be bussing. I see three scum teams as being likely:

Jimmm/Dsell/Insom

Jimmm/Dsell/Robz

Jimmm/Robz/Insom

I don't at all think Eevee is scum. I could be wrong, but he would be my "bet the game" candidate (which IC's ATE SUPPOSED TO ASK ABOUT WHERE ARE YOUUUUU?? ?? ?? ??)

[Galzria]

Ate = are, as usual.

[Eevee]

I think Jimmm and Dsell being from the same team is almost impossible. Especially if one of them is scum.

Eevee is not sure whether to take his scumbuddy's side and doesn't know what to say, so he posts this to look like he's contributing.

Eevee is leaning towards Jimmm because that just looks like he is fabricatlng arguments.

[Dsell]

I actually agree with Dsell about Jimmm. It's just I think he might be bussing. I see three scum teams as being likely:

Jimmm/Dsell/Insom

Jimmm/Dsell/Robz

Jimmm/Robz/Insom

I don't at all think Eevee is scum. I could be wrong, but he would be my "bet the game" candidate (which IC's ATE SUPPOSED TO ASK ABOUT WHERE ARE YOUUUUU?? ?? ?? ??)

Wow. I am floored that you would bet the game on Eevee now right now. I would definitely not.

[Galzria]

So if Jim and Dsell are one town/one scum... then 2 of Galz/Eevee/Ins (each of them could switch me in instead) are scum? I'm not missing someone, am I? Wow.

They could both be scum. Not town though, since I don't believe Robz/Eevee/Insomniac is possible.

But why does Dsell make Jimm his target if they are both scum? That doesn't make sense.

Scum don't bus what?

No, but really, Dsell said he wanted Eevee much more forcefully until I came out with my reasoning for Jimmmm to likely be scum. At that point, he switched to pushing Jimmmm hard. If the option was "push his scummate and try to buy town cred" vs "just get lynched", which do you think he would take? It's not at all unreasonable to me that they might both be scum. It's also possible only 1 is. I feel pretty strongly that Insomniac is scum, based on my case earlier. So.... It's you or Dsell in my mind for most likely last scum.

[Dsell]

@Galz, I was voting for Jimmmmm.

[Galzria]

@Galz, I was voting for Jimmmmm.

And trying very hard to get people to go Eevee

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

53 minutes to deadline

[Dsell]

@Galz, I was voting for Jimmmmm.

And trying very hard to get people to go Eevee

Show me where. Quotes. I said Eevee was more likely town than Jimmmm. When you made a case on Jimmmm I suggested you vote on him. I suggested Insom vote for Jimmmmm.

[Eevee]

IC's and Galzria, who is our man for today?

[Galzria]

@Galz, I was voting for Jimmmmm.

And trying very hard to get people to go Eevee

Show me where. Quotes. I said Eevee was more likely town than Jimmmm. When you made a case on Jimmmm I suggested you vote on him. I suggested Insom vote for Jimmmmm.

No, you're right in that you did always say both together. It's just your constant back and forth with Eevee emphasized to me your finding him scummy, because in every other post you were pointing it out. As the quotes were back and forth with Eevee, it came across as your desiring hoods lynch more.

[ashersky]

I lean Dsell, although some of his replies are certainly because he's under pressure.  Robz is quiet, which I hate, but he's in a conference.  I think Jimmmm and Eevee are likeliest partners.

I could be convinced to switch to Jimmmmm, but not by Dsell.

[Galzria]

IC's and Galzria, who is our man for today?

I want Jimmm, then Insomniac, then Dsell, then Robz, personally. I really wish our IC's were around to do more than cast their votes, so they could explain why I should put Dsell over the other two.

[Galzria]

Ashersky! Talk buddy, talk! (and where did Robz say conference call?)

[Jimmmmm]

I kind of feel like Dsell is twisting what I say, and I don't have the argumentative skills to keep up. Let me explain my perspective.

When I said "the wagon was unwarranted", I was reading Dsell from the reference point of Galz'  #454 (14 posts before mine), in which he points out that everyone in the game except for me and Dsell had either voted for Dsell or expressed willingness to vote for Dsell. So from my point of view, if Dsell's not scum then that includes the entire scum team.

My first response to Dsell is when I had been re-reading Insom, so my mind was on other things. Dsell basically said, "The wagon was just Masons+1", so I said "Oh ok, guess it wasn't much then". But then I was like, "Oh hang on, more people are voting/willing to vote for him than that". So I looked at Dsell's post in which he seems to be focussing on the word "early", so I thought "Oh he must think I'm talking about a minor wagon early on instead of the main wagon". That's what I thought he meant. I wasn't actually talking about any particular vote count, I was talking about the fact that everyone else in the game has said they'll vote for him. I didn't at this point go back and check the actual wagons, because I thought this was just him misunderstanding what I meant, and so just a distraction from my Insom-reading.

I realise I made the mistake of not checking things before I responded to Dsell. But I really think he just saw something he could work with and is now trying really hard to get the focus off of him.

[Dsell]

I lean Dsell, although some of his replies are certainly because he's under pressure.  Robz is quiet, which I hate, but he's in a conference.  I think Jimmmm and Eevee are likeliest partners.

I could be convinced to switch to Jimmmmm, but not by Dsell.

You think Eevee and Jimmm are on the same team? So if I'm scum and they are town, that means that just one of Robz/Galz/Insom is town. Does that seem right to you?

[Robz888]

Jimm sure is scrambling.

Vote: Jimm, actually. I don't know. We can get Dsell tomorrow if we are wrong.

[Galzria]

I should also note that I suspect that if Dsell is town, Robz is scum as well. He came into a heated debate amongst many players with the IC's quiet and on Dsell, and proclaimed him to read townie, then went largely silent again.

If Dsell is town, that's a classic scum Robz play. Slyly coming in and announcing town vibes from the biggest suspect before slipping back into the shadows.

Not that I think he's the best lynch, that'll still be Jimmmmm.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.7


Dsell (2) - Destierro, Ashersky
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (2) - Dsell, Robz888
Insomniac (1) - Galzria

Not voting: Jimmm, Eevee

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 40 minutes from now)

[Eevee]

I'm almost leaning on Dsell over Jimmm again. >_> So hard.

[Jimmmmm]

Well I guess there's no point not voting at this point. Hats off to Dsell for finding something minor and taking it way out of proportion. After I flip Town if you lynch me today, just make sure you lynch Dsell tomorrow to bring it back to 50/50.

Vote: Dsell.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.8


Dsell (3) - Destierro, Ashersky, Jimmmmm
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (2) - Dsell, Robz888
Insomniac (1) - Galzria

Not voting: Eevee

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 30 minutes from now)

[Eevee]

vote: Dsell L-1. We have 28 minutes.

[ashersky]

My not as strong scum read on Jimmmm has to do with having read every single post he's ever made on this forum (not counting Pokemon) from the POV of a mod knowing his alignment.  I feel like I have a good sense of how he posts as town and scum.  He could be switching that up, I guess...but he reads more like a scum target than a scum player. 

So best guess is he's being bussed or is the easy target.  Eevee's found a way to not be suspected now, I see, as well.

If it comes down to Jimmmmm or secret vote, I'll switch to Jimmmm.  But I had the biggest scum read on Dsell from the beginning, and feel like I need to stick with it.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.9


Dsell (4) - Destierro, Ashersky, Jimmmmm, Eevee
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (2) - Dsell, Robz888
Insomniac (1) - Galzria

Not voting:

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (which is soon)

[Dsell]

I lean Dsell, although some of his replies are certainly because he's under pressure.  Robz is quiet, which I hate, but he's in a conference.  I think Jimmmm and Eevee are likeliest partners.

I could be convinced to switch to Jimmmmm, but not by Dsell.

You think Eevee and Jimmm are on the same team? So if I'm scum and they are town, that means that just one of Robz/Galz/Insom is town. Does that seem right to you?

Ashersky, could you respond to this?

[Eevee]

Two IC's, if town jimm is going to vote for Dsell 100%, robz's vote was so early it could be a bus + I have a (dwindling) town read on Robz.

[Galzria]

My not as strong scum read on Jimmmm has to do with having read every single post he's ever made on this forum (not counting Pokemon) from the POV of a mod knowing his alignment.  I feel like I have a good sense of how he posts as town and scum.  He could be switching that up, I guess...but he reads more like a scum target than a scum player. 

So best guess is he's being bussed or is the easy target.  Eevee's found a way to not be suspected now, I see, as well.

If it comes down to Jimmmmm or secret vote, I'll switch to Jimmmm.  But I had the biggest scum read on Dsell from the beginning, and feel like I need to stick with it.

In that case, I'm ready to hammer when you say to.

[Dsell]

Lynch Jimmm and Eevee and win

[Dsell]

Galz you've been saying the Jimmm lynch is better this whole time, why are you suddenly ready to hammer me?

[Dsell]

I'm almost leaning on Dsell over Jimmm again. >_> So hard.

You never seemed to consider lynching Jimmmm yet you suggest you did in this post.

[Jimmmmm]

I think Jimmm and Dsell being from the same team is almost impossible. Especially if one of them is scum.

Eevee is not sure whether to take his scumbuddy's side and doesn't know what to say, so he posts this to look like he's contributing.

Eevee is leaning towards Jimmm because that just looks like he is fabricatlng arguments.

[Dsell]

I think Jimmm and Dsell being from the same team is almost impossible. Especially if one of them is scum.

Eevee is not sure whether to take his scumbuddy's side and doesn't know what to say, so he posts this to look like he's contributing.

Eevee is leaning towards Jimmm because that just looks like he is fabricatlng arguments.

He's responding to and referring to me, right? Am I reading that wrong?

[Dsell]

Where is Robz?

[Galzria]

Galz you've been saying the Jimmm lynch is better this whole time, why are you suddenly ready to hammer me?

Because it takes 5 to lynch.

There are 5 town.

It takes all town to lynch if nobody is bussing.

I know 2 town are on you and won't move.

To effectively lynch Jimmmm, either I'M wrong, or scum would need to bus.

Scum won't bus Jimm if you're town and can be lynched.

My voting Jimmm would be useless, and you're still in 2 of the 3 scum pairs that I see as likely.

[Dsell]

But plurality!

Even if we can't get all 5 on Jimmmm we can look at who wouldn't vote for him and vote for THEM.

[Dsell]

But plurality!

Even if we can't get all 5 on Jimmmm we can look at who wouldn't vote for him and vote for THEM.

Oh what am I saying no plurality. I'd lose hidden democracy.

[Dsell]

Destierro, you don't have anything to say about Jimmmm?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

18 minutes to deadline

[Robz888]

Where is Robz?

Eating dinner. Dsell... I don't know, I believe you but just lsightly. You're playing defensive much better than Jimm, but your are a more senior player than he. Gah, so hard.

[Galzria]

Dsell, I DO prefer the Jimmm lynch, but I can't do that without my IC's, and there's still a reasonable chance from my perspective that you're scum. What am I supposed to do?

[Dsell]

Lynch Jimmmmmm and Eevee and win.

Insom is more likely town than Galz.

[Eevee]

I'm starting to develop a scum read on joth. Dude is useless!

[Dsell]

Dsell, I DO prefer the Jimmm lynch, but I can't do that without my IC's, and there's still a reasonable chance from my perspective that you're scum. What am I supposed to do?

Not lynch me! Or don't vote and vote Jimm in the hidden democracy! It's better than lynching me outright!

[ashersky]

I lean Dsell, although some of his replies are certainly because he's under pressure.  Robz is quiet, which I hate, but he's in a conference.  I think Jimmmm and Eevee are likeliest partners.

I could be convinced to switch to Jimmmmm, but not by Dsell.

You think Eevee and Jimmm are on the same team? So if I'm scum and they are town, that means that just one of Robz/Galz/Insom is town. Does that seem right to you?

Ashersky, could you respond to this?

Given Insom's disappearance, Dsell/Eevee/Jimmmmm is the best scum team out there.  Robz is a wild card.

So Dsell flips scum, I say we go after Jimmmmmm/Eevee, taking some time to re-read.  If Dsell flips town ,I say the same thing, for different reasons.

Robz/Insom bother me, but not much I can do about VLA, and I haven't had that scummy a read on Insom and no scum read on Robz.

[ashersky]

I'm starting to develop a scum read on joth. Dude is useless!

Joth?

[Dsell]

I lean Dsell, although some of his replies are certainly because he's under pressure.  Robz is quiet, which I hate, but he's in a conference.  I think Jimmmm and Eevee are likeliest partners.

I could be convinced to switch to Jimmmmm, but not by Dsell.

You think Eevee and Jimmm are on the same team? So if I'm scum and they are town, that means that just one of Robz/Galz/Insom is town. Does that seem right to you?

Ashersky, could you respond to this?

Given Insom's disappearance, Dsell/Eevee/Jimmmmm is the best scum team out there.  Robz is a wild card.

So Dsell flips scum, I say we go after Jimmmmmm/Eevee, taking some time to re-read.  If Dsell flips town ,I say the same thing, for different reasons.

Robz/Insom bother me, but not much I can do about VLA, and I haven't had that scummy a read on Insom and no scum read on Robz.

Ashersky, if you believe this, I beg you to vote Jimmmmm instead of me. If I'm bussing, why would you care?

[Destierro]

Honestly dont see jimm as scum as much as I see you.

[Robz888]

I'm starting to develop a scum read on joth. Dude is useless!

[Galzria]

I'm starting to develop a scum read on joth. Dude is useless!

Joth?

It was a joke. You know? Ha ha? Funny?

[Dsell]

ASHERSKY!

You just said that WHETHER I AM SCUM OR TOWN, JIMMMM IS LIKELY SCUM!!

VOTE JIMMM

[Eevee]

*robz. have been phone posting for the past 45min

[Jimmmmm]

ash, I beg you to vote Dsell. How does begging help again?

[Eevee]

also funny as a joke!

[Dsell]

So Dsell flips scum, I say we go after Jimmmmmm/Eevee, taking some time to re-read.  If Dsell flips town ,I say the same thing, for different reasons.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eevee]

I don't understand how ashersky can think jimm/Dsell/me is the scum team. Tomorrow's problem I guess..

[Galzria]

So Dsell flips scum, I say we go after Jimmmmmm/Eevee, taking some time to re-read.  If Dsell flips town ,I say the same thing, for different reasons.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That WAS how I PoE'd myself to Jimmm scum, fwiw.

[Dsell]

So Dsell flips scum, I say we go after Jimmmmmm/Eevee, taking some time to re-read.  If Dsell flips town ,I say the same thing, for different reasons.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That WAS how I PoE'd myself to Jimmm scum, fwiw.

Ashersky, are you seeing this?

If I am scum, you think Jimmmm is scum. If I am town, you think Jimmmmm is scum.

So where are the situations where Jimmmm is town? HE IS SCUM.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

10 minutes to deadline.

[Eevee]

Lol now I'm tempted to switch AGAIN!

[Galzria]

Fascinating. Tell me if I'm crazy (from my perspective, of course):

Dsell (3): Ashersky, Destierro, Robz

Expressed willingness to vote Dsell: Eevee, Insomniac, Me.

No input yet: Jimmmmm

Now, I know that I'm town. So:

If Dsell is town, and Robz/Eevee/Insomniac are scum, then the entire scum team has expressed interest in lynching a single townie. This seems highly unusual to me. Scum generally spread their voices around a bit more. If Dsell were to flip town, those 3 would look much worse.

So I can't believe that scum!trio is accurate. This means that if Dsell is town, then one of those 3 is likely also town. That means Jimmmmm must be scum.

Is it fair to say that Town!Dsell = Scum!Jimmmmm (again, from my perspective), or am I missing something? Am I wrong to think that Robz/Eevee/Insomniac is unlikely based on their stated desire to lynch Dsell?

Of course, Dsell being scum is entirely different. Oddly, I find Jimmmmm more likely to be scum here as well, but wouldn't bet on it. It's just that if Dsell is scum, I don't see BOTH of his partners expressing interest in his lynch now.

[Eevee]

vote: jimmm

[Jimmmmm]

I really don't understand how PoE makes me obvscum. If everyone else is doing a better job at convincing you than me, couldn't that be because everyone else in question has had more experience convincing people they're Town?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.10


Dsell (3) - Destierro, Ashersky, Jimmmmm
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (3) - Dsell, Robz888, Eevee
Insomniac (1) - Galzria

Not voting:

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (which is soon)

[Jimmmmm]

Really Eevee? You're buying into Dsell's yelling, scrambling and making a fuss?

[Eevee]

wait isnt a tie instant town lynch?

[Dsell]

Galz? Ashersky? You've both PoE'd yourselves into thinking Jimmm is scum. Now act on it.

[ashersky]

Put it this way: when I first developed my reads, Jimmmmm wasn't one of them.  As they've matured, he's still on the outskirts. 

I think the likelihood that jimmmmm is town is higher than Dsell being town.

[Robz888]

Galz is voting for Insomniace right now? FOS: Galz

[Dsell]

Put it this way: when I first developed my reads, Jimmmmm wasn't one of them.  As they've matured, he's still on the outskirts. 

I think the likelihood that jimmmmm is town is higher than Dsell being town.

I give up.

[Dsell]

Destierro, do you see that Ashersky has acknowledged that Jimmmm is scum whether I'm scum or town? Can you see it?

[ashersky]

Galz? Ashersky? You've both PoE'd yourselves into thinking Jimmm is scum. Now act on it.

Nope.  Not switching.  Lynch Jimmmmm without me (or Dest, most likely).

[Robz888]

Galz has to be a scumbuddy to one or the other, right? Refusing to take a side, hoping the other man goes down?

[Galzria]

But.... F***!!!

Damnit, if TWO TOWN ARE VOTING DSELL, AND JIMM HAS 3, THEN THERE IS SCUM ON JIMMM'S WAGON!

GRRRRRRR

I want to vote Jimmmm. Am I being WIFOM'd? I can't vote with scum over my IC's, that's retarded.

Grrrr again.

[Eevee]

wait isnt a tie instant town lynch?

[Jimmmmm]

I'm trying to think of a way to give you some helpful information for tomorrow in case I'm not here. I really don't know what to say, my re-reading was interrupted midway through.

[Robz888]

I mean, you are here and not taking a side.

[Robz888]

I mean, you are here and not taking a side.

@Galz

[Dsell]

Ashersky, I don't think we have enough people to lynch Jimmm without your help.

If you don't want to send this to hidden democracy, which is nearly guaranteed to hit a townie, vote Jim!

[ashersky]

Destierro, do you see that Ashersky has acknowledged that Jimmmm is scum whether I'm scum or town? Can you see it?

I acknowledge we need to look at it.  I'm just much surer about you.

[Galzria]

Vote: Dsell

I won't lynch with scum, but without my IC's. That is beyond stupid, no matter my reads.

[Dsell]

Calling the scumteam: Jimmmm, Eevee, and Galz


But vote Jimm and Eevee first.

[Robz888]

wait isnt a tie instant town lynch?

Why? The secret vote becomes public k, right? So scum can't play it that way, which was what I think you mean.

[ashersky]

Hidden democracy = town lynch, although hidden votes become public.  So they could still bus.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.11


Dsell (4) - Destierro, Ashersky, Jimmmmm, Galzria
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (3) - Dsell, Robz888, Eevee

Not voting:

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 PM forum time. (which is soon)

[ashersky]

Calling the scumteam: Jimmmm, Eevee, and Galz


But vote Jimm and Eevee first.

If Dsell is scum, it's Dsell/Eevee/Galz, right?

[Eevee]

No

[Dsell]

Just lynch Jimmm and Eevee.

[Eevee]

Dsell feels so town!

[Galzria]

Calling the scumteam: Jimmmm, Eevee, and Galz


But vote Jimm and Eevee first.

If Dsell is scum, it's Dsell/Eevee/Galz, right?

If Dsell is scum and Eevee is scum, I don't give a damn if you lynch me next or not, because town will win. I don't think Eevee is scum though personally.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

THREAD LOCKED!

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Final Day 1 Vote Count 1.12


Dsell (4) - Destierro, Ashersky, Jimmmmm, Galzria
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (3) - Dsell, Robz888, Eevee

Not voting:

Please stand by

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

"...appreciative that the university decided the advantages of having a sample excavation just outside the lecture hall outweighed the..." A scream cut off Dr. Leakey's words.  A body lay in an excavation pit, and was visible to the first students now filing up behind their professor. "I know him!" exclaimed the young woman that had screamed.  "He was sitting next to me in class the first day, and was one of the ones that disappeared!  I recognize that T-shirt, with 'Is boring, but necessary' on the back.  The front says 'Vanilla Town'. I never got a chance to ask him what it meant."

"Well, he has now reappeared, and is considerably less attentive" said the professor, "but let's not let that stop us from continuing".

Dsell has been killed.  He was a Vanilla Townie.

Day 2 has begun!


Thread unlocked.

[Galzria]

I have a freaking headache.

[ashersky]

Lame.

[ashersky]

Also, no rush.  Time for full re-read with Dsell = town in mind.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh crap. Crap crap crap crap crap.

[Galzria]

Jimmm is scum. My personal belief is that his teammates are Robz and Insomniac. Dsell said Eevee though, so I won't swear by anything.

[Eevee]

I would vote for jimm again now.
But obv no one vote without IC's permission.

[Jimmmmm]

I guess we've just shot ourselves in the foot bigtime now. Scum must be having a right old laugh at us. I guess that's probably gg.

[Eevee]

He also said Galzria. I personally think Ins+Robz.

[Robz888]

Galz is the scum. I called him out for sticking a vote on Insomniac (which was the same as voting for no one at that point) and he responds b y casting the pivotal vote on Dsell, who is now town.

Scum team is: Galzria, Jimm... and someone.

[Galzria]

Jimmm is scum. My personal belief is that his teammates are Robz and Insomniac. Dsell said Eevee though, so I won't swear by anything.

I don't think Eevee/Robz were double bussing at the end though, but hell, with daychat maybe they were. My point is that Jimmm/Ins/Eevee & Jimmm/Ins/Robz >>> Jimmm/Robz/Eevee. So from where I sit, my D1 reads of Insomniac/Jimmm look to be the best option.

[Eevee]

although this game is going so well for scum that makes me suspect Galzria more... paranoia mode.

[Jimmmmm]

I guess forcing my lynch now will be a walk in the park for any competent scum. I guess I'll try for a re-read, but I think we've already lost.

[Robz888]

although this game is going so well for scum that makes me suspect Galzria more... paranoia mode.

Galzria is absolutely scum beyond any rational doubt. Far more likely than Jimm, although there's almost no world where Jimm isn't scum. I guess Insomniac for third since I still trust Eevee.

[Robz888]

Seriously, look back. He's around, he's involved, and he's voting for Insomniac. Who no one else is voting for and isn't even an option. I say it's scummy, and then he kills Dsell.

He's like absolutely scumbuddies with Ins (who it was safe to vote for) and Jimm.

[Galzria]

Galz is the scum. I called him out for sticking a vote on Insomniac (which was the same as voting for no one at that point) and he responds b y casting the pivotal vote on Dsell, who is now town.

Scum team is: Galzria, Jimm... and someone.

That's such a BS argument.

I was on Insomniac, who was my biggest scum read next to Jimmmm. I wasn't on Dsell earlier because I didn't want him at L-1, or to hammer, when I had hope of getting Jimmm lynched instead. I hadn't voted Jimmm because I wanted to talk to Ashersky first and he was gone most the day.

[Robz888]

Galz is the scum. I called him out for sticking a vote on Insomniac (which was the same as voting for no one at that point) and he responds b y casting the pivotal vote on Dsell, who is now town.

Scum team is: Galzria, Jimm... and someone.

That's such a BS argument.

I was on Insomniac, who was my biggest scum read next to Jimmmm. I wasn't on Dsell earlier because I didn't want him at L-1, or to hammer, when I had hope of getting Jimmm lynched instead. I hadn't voted Jimmm because I wanted to talk to Ashersky first and he was gone most the day.

You wanted Jimm or Insomniac, and yet you got Dsell killed. Interesting.

[Eevee]

Lonand behold, I'm inclined to side with Robz here.

[Robz888]

Well, I gotta take a break for a bit. See y'all later.

[Galzria]

Seriously, look back. He's around, he's involved, and he's voting for Insomniac. Who no one else is voting for and isn't even an option. I say it's scummy, and then he kills Dsell.

He's like absolutely scumbuddies with Ins (who it was safe to vote for) and Jimm.

Yeah... Sure, your post had DO MUCH to do with my vote. You know the one... It came 23 seconds after your post. Guess what? It's hard to get a post in from my mobile when every time I hit post it has to load the page, and if there's a new post, I have to hit post again. And then again. And then again.

But no, it's completely rationale that I made my vote, based of your post, and posted it in 23 seconds.

[Galzria]

Galz is the scum. I called him out for sticking a vote on Insomniac (which was the same as voting for no one at that point) and he responds b y casting the pivotal vote on Dsell, who is now town.

Scum team is: Galzria, Jimm... and someone.

That's such a BS argument.

I was on Insomniac, who was my biggest scum read next to Jimmmm. I wasn't on Dsell earlier because I didn't want him at L-1, or to hammer, when I had hope of getting Jimmm lynched instead. I hadn't voted Jimmm because I wanted to talk to Ashersky first and he was gone most the day.

You wanted Jimm or Insomniac, and yet you got Dsell killed. Interesting.

Right, because I had never indicated I thought Dsell had a decent chance at being scum:

I actually agree with Dsell about Jimmm. It's just I think he might be bussing. I see three scum teams as being likely:

Jimmm/Dsell/Insom

Jimmm/Dsell/Robz

Jimmm/Robz/Insom

I don't at all think Eevee is scum. I could be wrong, but he would be my "bet the game" candidate (which IC's ATE SUPPOSED TO ASK ABOUT WHERE ARE YOUUUUU?? ?? ?? ??)

Galz you've been saying the Jimmm lynch is better this whole time, why are you suddenly ready to hammer me?

Because it takes 5 to lynch.

There are 5 town.

It takes all town to lynch if nobody is bussing.

I know 2 town are on you and won't move.

To effectively lynch Jimmmm, either I'M wrong, or scum would need to bus.

Scum won't bus Jimm if you're town and can be lynched.

My voting Jimmm would be useless, and you're still in 2 of the 3 scum pairs that I see as likely.

[Jimmmmm]

I am so lost by this game. I know the scum team is a subset of {Galz, Robz, Eevee, Insom} but I really have no idea which one of them could be Town. And I think the possibility of the Masons plus the last VT all voting for someone other than me both today and tomorrow, while of course being laughed at from all sides by scum is approximately 0%.

[Galzria]

Lonand behold, I'm inclined to side with Robz here.

Go figure. Oooh, wait, NOW I remember why I cast my vote for Dsell over Jimmm in the end:

But.... F***!!!

Damnit, if TWO TOWN ARE VOTING DSELL, AND JIMM HAS 3, THEN THERE IS SCUM ON JIMMM'S WAGON!

GRRRRRRR

I want to vote Jimmmm. Am I being WIFOM'd? I can't vote with scum over my IC's, that's retarded.

Grrrr again.

It was because there HAD to be scum on Jimmmm's wagon, but both IC's were on Dsell. But Dsell was town, which means.....

[Eevee]

So now I'm scum too?

[Galzria]

So now I'm scum too?

Sure means that one of you is.

[Jimmmmm]

I want the Masons and the other VT to carefully consider why you think I'm scum. Go back and look at the conversation. If you are really willing to bet the game that only scum me would not remember or check the details of wagons, then so be it. Just don't automatically think that because a Townie blew up at me over it and I voted for him back because really who wouldn't makes me scum.

[Eevee]

Revolution!! That spat makes it all but certain Robz and Galzria can't BOTH be scum, correct? So by just lynching Ins and Jimmm, we winnnn? Right? Robz, Galzria, IC's, comments on that?

[Jimmmmm]

Seems like a great way to make it seem that way I guess.

[Eevee]

Doesn't look like that fight is staged at all. Now all I need to do is convince IC's to go along with this plan. :/

I almost feel like voting for either Jimmmm or Ins and have the lack of a quickhammer to be a proof of them being scum. Could that be a useful tool for town ever? Consider this situation: I'm VT, think I know how we can win this but fear IC's won't trust me..

[ashersky]

Final Day 1 Vote Count 1.12


Dsell (4) - Destierro, Ashersky, Jimmmmm, Galzria
Eevee (1) - Insomniac
Jimmm (3) - Dsell, Robz888, Eevee

Not voting:

Please stand by

Okay, haven't re-read yet, will.

Here's what we have to think about. 

I think we have to give Insom a pass and hope he is at worst the third scum member.  The reason for this is he pulled an IRL emergency reason for going V/LA, and I want to respect that.  If he faked that to lurk as scum, well that's horrible, horrible sportsmanship, and we'll just have to take note of it in the future.  I refuse to assume the worst.

So, the task becomes finding two scum in this subset:

Jimmmmm, Galzria, Eevee, Robz888

Thoughts on each right now:

Jimmmmm -- WAY TOO EASY to lynch right now.  But, with scum knowing we were on the wrong wagon with Dsell, they can afford to kill a team member.  Seemed scummy as the day was winding down, but survived.  That's a Jimmmmm scum-talent.

Galzria -- I gave him a huge amount of town cred in the beginning.  I'm questioning myself, especially after misreading Dsell.  Robz makes some strong points on him.  That could easily be teammate bussing to ensure super-town cred going into D3 to lead town after one mason is vengekilled.

Robz -- What I just said about Galzria, but flipped.

Eevee -- Scummy read for his interactions with Dsell on D1.  Now that we know Dsell is town...I don't know what to make of it.  He definitely seemed townier by the end of the D1.  Probably my least likely lynch at this point, which doesn't jive with my feelings on D1, but what to do?


TLDR -- Scum played an epic D1, and that means at least one of Robz or Galz is scum, most likely with a strong plan to lynch a teammate on D2.

I lean toward Robz as scum based on him picking on "team" from Dsell's post on D1 as a scum!tell.  That was a pure scum move.


PPE--Eevee, that fight could very easily be staged.  Think about who we're talking about.

[Galzria]

Let's pause a moment and look at the totality of this quote box:

Galz is the scum. I called him out for sticking a vote on Insomniac (which was the same as voting for no one at that point) and he responds b y casting the pivotal vote on Dsell, who is now town.

Scum team is: Galzria, Jimm... and someone.

That's such a BS argument.

I was on Insomniac, who was my biggest scum read next to Jimmmm. I wasn't on Dsell earlier because I didn't want him at L-1, or to hammer, when I had hope of getting Jimmm lynched instead. I hadn't voted Jimmm because I wanted to talk to Ashersky first and he was gone most the day.

You wanted Jimm or Insomniac, and yet you got Dsell killed. Interesting.

In Box #1, I'm criticized and called scum for being on Insomniac, instead of making a choice between Dsell/Jimmmm.

In Box #3, I'm criticized and called scum for switching my vote OFF of Insomniac, whom I had a bigger scum read on.

.... Really? I'm scummy for voting my scum reads, even if they aren't viable lynches, but I'm also scummy for leaving my biggest scum read for a viable lynch?

Furthermore, I'm doubly scummy and obvscum for choosing to side with the side that had my two IC's, instead of the side that I KNEW had scum on it?

Well damned if I do, damned if I don't. You're all sorts of eager to go for the kill here now aren't you?

[Eevee]

It's obvious Insomniac didn't pull the VLA as an excuse the lurk. Not even worth considering.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm -- WAY TOO EASY to lynch right now.  But, with scum knowing we were on the wrong wagon with Dsell, they can afford to kill a team member.  Seemed scummy as the day was winding down, but survived.  That's a Jimmmmm scum-talent.

Haha good point. If I was scum I'd probably have a post in the QT saying something like, "How come whenever I'm scum I can't survive to day 2 without becoming obvscum?"

[Eevee]

Galzria and Robz, thoughts on the plan of lynching Ins and Jimmm in whatever order?

[Galzria]

Galzria and Robz, thoughts on the plan of lynching Ins and Jimmm in whatever order?

No. If one is town, we lose. I would've bet the game on you yesterday. Not today.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 2.1


Not voting: Insomniac, Ashersky, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmm, Eevee, Destierro

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Friday, Dec. 21, at 8:00 pm forum time.

[Galzria]

I thought it was the apocalypse beginning......excuse me now i have some explaining to do to my neighbour....

I may die when the world ends tomorrow, but you'll still be scum.

[ashersky]

So after re-reading, if Galz is scum, Eevee is town. 

Robz is now my top scum!read, based on, well, everything.  His reads, his votes, his hedges on D1.  Don't like it.  Not town!Robz that we all know and love.

I'm good with voting there when needed.  Other thoughts?

[Eevee]

Yay ashersky yay!!

Well, you seem to then think Robz's and Galzria's fight was staged. I think determining that is REALLY important.

[ashersky]

Yay ashersky yay!!

Well, you seem to then think Robz's and Galzria's fight was staged. I think determining that is REALLY important.

In normal life, no way that fight is staged, right?  But this is Robz888 and Galzria we're talking about.  It's like Pacino and DeNiro are in the same room.  They could do it.

[Eevee]

So, before that it looked like it was going to be a Jimmm lynch for sure. Would Galz and Robz want to derail that with a fight if he was town? Unlikely, why would they? Would they want to derail that if Jimmm was scum? Again unlikely, because how could their fight make us go Ins or Eevee?

So, ashersky, what leads you to believe the fight is staged?

[Eevee]

I'm really quite confident with my plan of lynching Ins and Jimmm. I mean it's foolproof unless the fight was staged.

[ashersky]

So, before that it looked like it was going to be a Jimmm lynch for sure. Would Galz and Robz want to derail that with a fight if he was town? Unlikely, why would they? Would they want to derail that if Jimmm was scum? Again unlikely, because how could their fight make us go Ins or Eevee?

So, ashersky, what leads you to believe the fight is staged?

Reading it, just screamed scum show.

I still stand by my read that Jimmmmm is likely town.  I say this knowing Jimmmmm is really good at faking it as scum, but I don't know, he was so sure he shouldn't lurk if he is scum next time...so I think he would have made sure to post more, and meaningfully, if he was.

So that leaves me looking at you/Galz/Robz.  I find it hard to believe all three of you are scum, so who sticks out from that group to me?  Robz.  Then Galz, then you.

PPE -- It's scummy to want to lynch Ins.

[Eevee]

No, actually listen to my arguments and forget gut reads.

- Jimmm has been lurking more in all the other threads. It has seemed to me like he has participated here to best of his abilities.

- Ins copypasted the same message to all his games. Obviously something bad happened and I hope everything/everyone is / will be fine. Sounds like it's nothing super devastating, which is at least good. However, that has nothing to do with his alignment here, literally zero. If he is the best lynch for our faction, i don't think there is anything wrong with lynching him. SfS won't have trouble finding a replacement if that is needed.

Gut reads are gut reads, I do like them too but you know people get them wrong, it's complicated. Especially so when dealig with a group of players this strong. So, unless we can find a motive for Robz's and Galzria's fight being staged, I think it's safe to assume they wouldn't do it for just no reason (right?), so as long as you trust me to be town, we can lynch Jimmm and Ins in whatever order and win. 100%. All we need to do is know I'm town (a leap for you, but one you seem to be willing to take) and that Robz and Galz wouldn't a) stage a fight for no reason and b) have no motive to stage a fight.

Am I missing something?

[ashersky]

I don't trust you to be town enough to just follow the plan.

I said if Galz is scum, you are town.  I'd say if Galz/Robz are both scum, you are also town.  But the worry is if Galz is town, you are scum.

[Eevee]

I don't like lynching either of Robz or Galzria, because to me that feels like a 50-50 proposition. I would lean towards Galzria too, yes. But I'm like 60-40 sure about it. :/ Maybe 65-35. Or 70-30, but still nowhere close to my confidence on "the plan". But I do appreciate you switching me away from the scum column and understand if you aren't ready to bet the game on me being town.

[Galzria]

Ashersky, if you lynch Robz, then me, town still loses. BUT at least he won't have gotten away with the crap arguments he was spewing forth earlier.

Are we capable of staging that? You're damn right we are. But we didn't, not this time. This time Robz decided to try going straight for the kill on me, because I dared to choose wrong.

Well, I stand by my choice in the situation I was in, and I know that if Robz were town he would've made the same choice. To try and attack me over choosing a side that I knew had two IC's on it over a side that I KNEW had scum on it? Seriously dude? What was it you said last game?

Screw you. Go to hell.

[Eevee]

No need to get personal dudes and dudettes!

[Eevee]

Galzria, anything to say to me to convince you I'm wrong? Or do you think I'm right, but Robz is just the scum between the two of you?

[Galzria]

Galzria, anything to say to me to convince you I'm wrong? Or do you think I'm right, but Robz is just the scum between the two of you?

I think you're scum with him for not seeing how stupid his claims were. Looked like you two had everything planned out in your QT ready to go, so no, I guess I don't have a heck of a lot to say to you because there's no arguing with scum.

[Eevee]

Galzria, anything to say to me to convince you I'm wrong? Or do you think I'm right, but Robz is just the scum between the two of you?

I think you're scum with him for not seeing how stupid his claims were. Looked like you two had everything planned out in your QT ready to go, so no, I guess I don't have a heck of a lot to say to you because there's no arguing with scum.

Okay. And no need to theoretize* over it just in case I'm town? If you are town that's bad play in my opinion, I'm not always so smart and no downside to it really.

*i dont know if this is a word.

[ashersky]

Galzria, anything to say to me to convince you I'm wrong? Or do you think I'm right, but Robz is just the scum between the two of you?

I think you're scum with him for not seeing how stupid his claims were. Looked like you two had everything planned out in your QT ready to go, so no, I guess I don't have a heck of a lot to say to you because there's no arguing with scum.

Okay. And no need to theoretize* over it just in case I'm town? If you are town that's bad play in my opinion, I'm not always so smart and no downside to it really.

*i dont know if this is a word.

You mean "theorize."

[Eevee]

Luckily that wasn't the only grammatical problem in that post. As a side note I do feel playing this much mafia has improved my english quite a bit!

[ashersky]

Luckily that wasn't the only grammatical problem in that post. As a side note I do feel playing this much mafia has improved my english quite a bit!

Your English is fantastic, Eevee.  No worries there.

[Robz888]

So Eevee's plan is essentially to bet the game on Eevee being town. Hmm.

I think I would go along with that, as long as it's Jimm first.

[Robz888]

Galzria, anything to say to me to convince you I'm wrong? Or do you think I'm right, but Robz is just the scum between the two of you?

I think you're scum with him for not seeing how stupid his claims were. Looked like you two had everything planned out in your QT ready to go, so no, I guess I don't have a heck of a lot to say to you because there's no arguing with scum.

Ridiculous. Galz, you were voting for someone who wasn't really a lynch option at that point (and you were around, unlike Insomniac). Okay, maybe me saying something didn't cause you to switch (cuz of the 23 seconds left thing). You still switched to Dsell, casting the pivotal vote. Perhaps you noticed what I had noticed--that you voting for Ins at that point was pretty scummy--before I noticed it.

[Eevee]

So, the activity died? Or are you all just sleeping?

IC's, time to be leaders!

[ashersky]

I can vote Robz.

I won't be on much as its my weekend starting up.

[Eevee]

I only support jimm and Ins, for reasons already mentioned.

[Eevee]

Galzria and Robz are haaaard to read, I'd prefer not guessing between the two when I see a sure way to victory..

[ashersky]

Eevee, from your perspective, 3 scum in Galz, Robz, Ins, Jimmmmm right?  Who's towniest?

[Eevee]

Eevee, from your perspective, 3 scum in Galz, Robz, Ins, Jimmmmm right?  Who's towniest?

No one still has given me any reason to think the Galzria-Robz fight was staged, so I'm forced to conclude they arent from the same scum team. Again, they wouldn't fakefight just for the heck of it, and I haven't thought of a reasonable (or any, really) motive for it yet. So, one of the two has to be the townie. They are so hard to read I don't know which it is. And that's why I'd prefer to lynch Jimmm or ins and know we'd hit scum.
I don't care which first, at all.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Deadline in approximately 11.5 hours.

[Jimmmmm]

Eevee's pushing pretty damn hard for me and Insom. I guess that makes Insom scum along with Eevee maybe, and also Robz? Gah, I don't know.

[Robz888]

Wow, pretty dead in here. I am in favor of lynching anyone except Eevee, basically.

[Jimmmmm]

Eevee, from your perspective, 3 scum in Galz, Robz, Ins, Jimmmmm right?  Who's towniest?

No one still has given me any reason to think the Galzria-Robz fight was staged, so I'm forced to conclude they arent from the same scum team. Again, they wouldn't fakefight just for the heck of it, and I haven't thought of a reasonable (or any, really) motive for it yet. So, one of the two has to be the townie. They are so hard to read I don't know which it is. And that's why I'd prefer to lynch Jimmm or ins and know we'd hit scum.
I don't care which first, at all.

Eevee, I'm pretty sure you provided the answer as to why they would stage it. If they are both scum, then convincing the Townies that they can't both be scum just about wins them the game ala your plan, as long as the ICs have a strong Town read on one of the other three.

[Insomniac]

So I'm here now. Sorry about having to miss so much. I think the scum team is Eevee/Galz/Jim just based on what people are sayin reacting and wagons.

I am absolutely not "faking RL emergency" it is however less Important than yesterday so I should be able to contribute more today.

[Insomniac]

To expand on the rl issue Eevee is right just because I have a  problem to deal with doesnt make me not scum. (I'm not though) but I shouldn't be above suspicion or getting a free pass because of it

[Robz888]

So I'm here now. Sorry about having to miss so much. I think the scum team is Eevee/Galz/Jim just based on what people are sayin reacting and wagons.

I am absolutely not "faking RL emergency" it is however less Important than yesterday so I should be able to contribute more today.

If that were the scumteam, who are you most sure of? Who would you vote for?

[Insomniac]

So I'm here now. Sorry about having to miss so much. I think the scum team is Eevee/Galz/Jim just based on what people are sayin reacting and wagons.

I am absolutely not "faking RL emergency" it is however less Important than yesterday so I should be able to contribute more today.

If that were the scumteam, who are you most sure of? Who would you vote for?

Eevee for pushing Jim insom. I'm town so pushing that plan is a loss for town

[Eevee]

Eevee's pushing pretty damn hard for me and Insom. I guess that makes Insom scum along with Eevee maybe, and also Robz? Gah, I don't know.

The lynchee was going to be you before the fight though. So, why?

Also, dont they run a high risk of getting "caught"? You are saying they anticipated someone would read it like me and come to the same conclusion? You arent and Ins isnt, doesnt seem likely.

[Insomniac]

BUMP

[Eevee]

ashersky I'm quite sure of this plan. Could you masons swing for Ins or jimm?

[Insomniac]

ashersky I'm quite sure of this plan. Could you masons swing for Ins or jimm?

Lol, You're being such a Robz this game. This is my plan I'm going to post it 18 billion times until you hate me for it.

[Galzria]

Honestly, based on how Robz came out at me today, my best guess is that I was set up to fail no matter which lynch I choose: Jimmm or Dsell. Especially because Robz wouldn't be dead to rights even if Jimmm got lynched and flipped town, since there would be two townies to redirect to (Dsell and Myself).

With that said, if I were to bet the game now, it would be on Jimmm. I will lynch any of Eevee/Insomniac/Robz that Ashersky says to. Don't care which, and I'll do the same tomorrow. Even if you think I'm scum (I'm not), I'm essentially giving the IC's 2/3 of a chance to hit scum today, and 1/2 chance tomorrow if they follow that. If I'm scum, you can hardly think that's the best play for me.

My top choice for today is Robz, obviously.

[Galzria]

Honestly, based on how Robz came out at me today, my best guess is that I was set up to fail no matter which lynch I choose: Jimmm or Dsell. Especially because Robz wouldn't be dead to rights even if Jimmm got lynched and flipped town, since there would be two townies to redirect to (Dsell and Myself).

With that said, if I were to bet the game now, it would be on Jimmm. I will lynch any of Eevee/Insomniac/Robz that Ashersky says to. Don't care which, and I'll do the same tomorrow. Even if you think I'm scum (I'm not), I'm essentially giving the IC's 2/3 of a chance to hit scum today, and 1/2 chance tomorrow if they follow that. If I'm scum, you can hardly think that's the best play for me.

My top choice for today is Robz, obviously.

I realize of course that I misspoke here.

If you think I'm scum, that means that 2 of those 3 would be town, not scum, if you think I'm protecting my partner Jimmm.

Well, I'll let Ashersky and Destierro make that decision. I'm not scum, Robz is, and probably Eevee. Between Insomniac and Jimmm I'm not as sure, but I lean towards Insomniac because I think that my reads earlier were good.

[Eevee]

Galzria, you seem to be scum and your avatar isnt loading.

[Galzria]

Galzria, you seem to be scum and your avatar isnt loading.

Sure, whatever Eevee.

[Voltgloss]

Galzria ... your avatar isnt loading.

Non-Mod confirmed.

[Eevee]

Ins and galz, isnt it funny how I'm the only one providing any reasons for my lynch plans?

Call me vain but I think town Galzria would have a town read on me here. Also I btw abandoned the townie lynch yesterday in favor of Dsell.

[Galzria]

Galzria ... your avatar isnt loading.

Non-Mod confirmed.

There's no Avatar to load.

[Galzria]

Ins and galz, isnt it funny how I'm the only one providing any reasons for my lynch plans?

Call me vain but I think town Galzria would have a town read on me here. Also I btw abandoned the townie lynch yesterday in favor of Dsell.

Ok, you're Vain.

[Eevee]

Never seen Galzria like this though. What's up man? You don't seem to be trying at all, regardless of your alignment.

[Galzria]

Never seen Galzria like this though. What's up man? You don't seem to be trying at all, regardless of your alignment.

Ha! Yeah. Go back and read today's events, following yesterday's, and tell me I haven't been trying.

[Eevee]

Never seen Galzria like this though. What's up man? You don't seem to be trying at all, regardless of your alignment.

Ha! Yeah. Go back and read today's events, following yesterday's, and tell me I haven't been trying.

You don't seem very willing to work with me, despite me being "sure" either robz or you is my vt friend here. Also you seem to be getting fed up with people for ingame-disagreements, which is unlike you I think. Wasn't even asking that as a strategic question, more like "is everything ok?".

[Galzria]

Never seen Galzria like this though. What's up man? You don't seem to be trying at all, regardless of your alignment.

Ha! Yeah. Go back and read today's events, following yesterday's, and tell me I haven't been trying.

You don't seem very willing to work with me, despite me being "sure" either robz or you is my vt friend here. Also you seem to be getting fed up with people for ingame-disagreements, which is unlike you I think. Wasn't even asking that as a strategic question, more like "is everything ok?".

Eevee, I'm SURE that Robz is scum. That leaves Insomniac/Jimmm/You. Two of those are scum. Why should I have ANY inclination to want to follow your plan, when it's MORE likely to come from a scum member than not? Especially following your support of Robz' arguments at day's start?

If you ARE scum with Robz, then following your plan looses the game for town. If you're town with me, then it wins the game. But I can't know that, and at this point, I don't believe it to be true. So what's my incentive to work with you?

[Eevee]

Well, vt's need to work together / get on the same page for this game to be winnable, dont you agree? So, as a townie who thinks its possible you are too, i have a lot incentive to try to work with you. Also might help me decide between you and robz if I eventually have to.

[Eevee]

I'm SURE either robz or you is the townie. Do you see how bad it this is for
town if we are indeed the townies?

[Eevee]

I don't even want to lynch you, yet we can't find any common ground.

[Galzria]

Well, vt's need to work together / get on the same page for this game to be winnable, dont you agree? So, as a townie who thinks its possible you are too, i have a lot incentive to try to work with you. Also might help me decide between you and robz if I eventually have to.

Yes, I do see the need for VT's to work together Eevee. It takes 4 to lynch, and there's 2 IC's, and 2 VT's. Got it.

But I don't know, and I don't THINK that you're a VT. I *know* that THIS Robz isn't the Robz from VI. Even if he was an IC there, he never once jumped at completely ridiculous cases and tried to instantly force a lynch. This Robz is NOT town.

Now, as for you? I don't know. I think both statistically, and based on reads now that there's a better than average chance that you're scum. So I'm certainly not going to go "Wow! What a great fool-proof plan Eevee has set forth!", because quite honestly, it's not. You're whole "plan" relies on not having to make a decision between Robz and I. If you're town, town wins. If you're scum, scum wins. I don't know which you are. Understand? It's a "plan" that wins you the game no matter WHAT team you're on, UNLESS you think that Robz and I are both scum, which obviously you do not (and you're at least right about that).

[Eevee]

Tempted to vote for ins to prove I'm right.

[Insomniac]

Tempted to vote for ins to prove I'm right.

What a scummy thing to want. I want to vote for a townie because if anyone follows me my team can quickhammer and win

[Galzria]

Tempted to vote for ins to prove I'm right.

That wouldn't prove anything. One of Jimmm or Insomniac IS scum regardless, so you could be town guessing the correct one, or scum bussing the one you know is scum.

What's more, if you WERE wrong, and Robz and I were scum together with Jimmm, you would hand us the game.

Now, at least on that note I can assure you it won't happen.

So, all your voting for Insomniac would do, is prove that either you or he is Scum, or both.

[Eevee]

Tempted to vote for ins to prove I'm right.

What a scummy thing to want. I want to vote for a townie because if anyone follows me my team can quickhammer and win

No townie should follow me. Wouldn't you not dying prove you are scum?

[Insomniac]

Or that Eevee and I are town and the entire scum team of Jim/robz/Galz aren't online at the same time to coordinate a quick hammer.

That said I'm 99% sure Eevee is scum.

[Eevee]

I think I need to vote for Jimm or ins to prove ic's they are scum

[Galzria]

I think I need to vote for Jimm or ins to prove ic's they are scum

Are you intentionally not listening, or just ignoring because you're scum and it doesn't fit in with your little world?

[Robz888]

Galzria is getting oddly hot here. Did we do something to make you upset?

[Eevee]

I think I need to vote for Jimm or ins to prove ic's they are scum

Are you intentionally not listening, or just ignoring because you're scum and it doesn't fit in with your little world?

Step in my shoes. I'm SURE both Jimm and Ins are scum. No one seems to listen. What's my play?

[Robz888]

I think I need to vote for Jimm or ins to prove ic's they are scum

Are you intentionally not listening, or just ignoring because you're scum and it doesn't fit in with your little world?

Step in my shoes. I'm SURE both Jimm and Ins are scum. No one seems to listen. What's my play?

I am listening and actually agree with you. Galz is just the third scum.

[Eevee]

oh the double post is because I'm phone posting from a party.

[Galzria]

I think I need to vote for Jimm or ins to prove ic's they are scum

Are you intentionally not listening, or just ignoring because you're scum and it doesn't fit in with your little world?

Step in my shoes. I'm SURE both Jimm and Ins are scum. No one seems to listen. What's my play?

Fine. I'm in your shoes. I'm *town!Eevee* (since that's what you claim to be).

Eevee: "Hey! I wanna vote Ins/Jimm to prove they're scum!"

Galzria: "How does that prove they're scum? Because a hammer doesn't fall instantly? All that means is that ONE of them OR you is scum. It proves nothing to the rest of us."

Eevee: "Hey! I wanna vote Ins/Jimm to prove they're scum!"

Galzria: ".........."

[Eevee]

2nd post was a missclick

WE NEED IC'S TO COME ONLINE!!

[Eevee]

I forgot the quickhammer wouldn't fall if I was scum, sorry. Obv.

[Robz888]

We need the ICs to tell us what to do, basically.

[Insomniac]

So realistically, I know I'm town.

Eevee is pushing for either me or Jimm.

Now there are two scenarios, Jimm is the other VT with me and dsell. or Jimm is scum

So is Eevee pushing town/town or scum/town

I have to think that Eevee is smart enough that he would put one of his buddies in the pair so that he gets some town cred going into day 3 if he doesn't win today.

So I THINK Jimm has to be on the team with Eevee.

Between Galz and Robz I was leaning Galz but Robz is also pretty buddy with Eevee today so I think it could be either, but the benefit of the white flag is that we don't have to decide on two people.

Therefore I want to lynch Eevee but would also lynch Jimm.

[Eevee]

Oh and I might not post much anymore, party. Have said what I think! Will be keeping up on phone to best of my abilities.

[Insomniac]

Calling the scumteam: Jimmmm, Eevee, and Galz


But vote Jimm and Eevee first.

I suppose I'm sheeping Dsell in this.

[Robz888]

Calling the scumteam: Jimmmm, Eevee, and Galz


But vote Jimm and Eevee first.

I suppose I'm sheeping Dsell in this.

Oh, I kind of forgot about that. Huh.

[Robz888]

Insomniac, are you my fellow townie? Do you think I am your fellow townie??

[Insomniac]

Insomniac, are you my fellow townie? Do you think I am your fellow townie??

I think either you or Galz are the fellow townie, I don't know which and thats why I want to white flag the other one of you

[Eevee]

Ins>Jimmm>Galzria>Robz is my scumminessrankings.

[Insomniac]

Shrug I'm done listening to Eevee's scum babble. Its so obvious that he's scum and I've quickly gone from either Jimm or Ins to INS first guys. It's obvious to me that Eevee is like well damnit Insomniac realizes what I'm doing I need to try and go for the win now.

[ashersky]

vote: Eevee

I am comfortable with this.

[Eevee]

fooooools. wp Ins I guess, or bp ashersky.

[Eevee]

I want to be an ic once in this setup, frustrating to always be a VT and have no one listen to me.

[Eevee]

wp scum, grats

[Eevee]

EHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE A SCUM BIAS FOR ME. damn I want to
be an ic in the next game.

[Eevee]

vote: insomniac just in case ashersky is pulling a gambit
or changes his mind

[Eevee]

unvote

[Galzria]

Sorry, posting from my mobile, but should I vote as well. I'm perfectly comfortable with an Eevee lynch.

[Galzria]

Sorry, posting from my mobile, but should I vote as well? I'm perfectly comfortable with an Eevee lynch.

Fix'd punctuation.

[Eevee]

Would scum Ins would vote for me without making sure his buddies are online?

[Eevee]

Ehatever I guess, I'm town and we'll lose because ashersky got it wrong.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 2.2


Eevee (1) - Ashersky

Not voting: Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmm, Eevee, Destierro

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Friday, Dec. 21, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 4.5 hours from now)

[Eevee]

Lol Ins didnt vote for me, I'm stupid..

Ash this game will end when jimm gets online and they van quickhanmer

[Eevee]

vote: jimm or whatever, at least I'll have my vote on scum when we lose

[ashersky]

No one voting is strange.  Don't know what it means.  We are all gun shy at this point.

[Galzria]

No one voting is strange.  Don't know what it means.  We are all gun shy at this point.

Yes, I am actually.

[ashersky]

No one voting is strange.  Don't know what it means.  We are all gun shy at this point.

Yes, I am actually.

So am I, but we have to do something.  It's blitz.  That's why I prefer to mod these things.

[Galzria]

Alright. Vote: Eevee then.

It's not Jimmm, and as I said, Jimmm is the one person I don't like for today, so.... Yeah.

[Eevee]

I give up

[Eevee]

wp Galzria Ins Jimmm, boooo ashersky

[Insomniac]

Ill also Vote: Eevee I'm pretty confident we got scum here

[ashersky]

unvote

[Eevee]

wp Galzria Ins Jimmm, boooo ashersky

actually fos at Robz if he is town tho, didnt really
try. maybe it's galz

[Eevee]

THANK YOU ASHERSKY. we gots them! jimm being offfline saved us.

[ashersky]

wp Galzria Ins Jimmm, boooo ashersky

Why do posts like this sound so real?

[ashersky]

Eevee, will you vote Galz?

[Eevee]

If I'm the option! but why isn't robz helping us?

[ashersky]

Dunno.  Scum!robz is more likely to be around.

[Eevee]

should I vote ?

[ashersky]

Here's the thing...scum have to bus if I choose correctly, right?  So wagons don't help me here.

Argh.  vote: Galzria

[Eevee]

vote: galzria

[ashersky]

Galz is around...

[Galzria]

HA!

Idiotic.

"Why is nobody voting?"

"Fine, I'll vote"

"scum."

[Eevee]

no need for bussingif the other vt and dest follow

[Eevee]

HA!

Idiotic.

"Why is nobody voting?"

"Fine, I'll vote"

"scum."

I still would have preferred ins or Jim. I'm going to say you brought this upon yourself if you are
town.

[ashersky]

You voting Eevee isn't what I was talking about.

unvote though, just had a thought.

[ashersky]

no need for bussingif the other vt and dest follow

No way scum let themselves both be off wagon.

[Galzria]

Really? I brought it on myself? Because I fucking voted?

Whatever, I'm about to be hammered anyway.

[ashersky]

So I am taking my kid to the aquarium soon, so I will be offline for awhile, past deadline.  Plus, weekends suck for Blitz.

This setup allows for no lynches...might be worth forcing a no lynch by having no one vote.

[ashersky]

Really? I brought it on myself? Because I fucking voted?

Whatever, I'm about to be hammered anyway.

See, this is not staged.  Galz and Robz could have been.

[Galzria]

I don't think it does, or nothing ever happens since there's no NK. I could be wrong though.

[Eevee]

Really? I brought it on myself? Because I fucking voted?

Whatever, I'm about to be hammered anyway.

well, I'm a vt and you were my 3rd choice. maybe not your fault.

[ashersky]

Hidden democracy tie = no lynch

There are three of us here.  Can we all vote Robz?

[Galzria]

I'm willing to, yes, obviously.

[Galzria]

" This game will use the hidden democracy method to determine lynches when votes are tied at the deadline. This means that if Player X and Y are tied at deadline, I lock the thread, EVERYONE sends me a PM of which player they are voting for (X or Y). The player that receives the most this way is lynched. If neither player has a majority, no lynch occurs. The results of the vote are made public afterwards, and are useful information"

You're correct in that.

[ashersky]

vote: robz888

Losing on a Robz lynch would at least be ironic, given his lurkishness today.

[ashersky]

Oh, and if we do hit scum, please vengekill me.  This is too much pressure!

[Galzria]

Vote: Robz as well.

[Eevee]

yay voting for my top townread... fos ashersky.
vote: Robz don't know about my access, just hot to ubwillibgly sheep ash

[Eevee]

please reconsoder tho, just go jimm or ins

[ashersky]

yay voting for my top townread... fos ashersky.
vote: Robz don't know about my access, just hot to ubwillibgly sheep ash

Voting for my top scumread didn't work D1 so...

[Robz888]

I thought my brother crashed the forums by making an account, so I stepped away. And now I have 3 votes? Why?

Jimm/Galz/Insomniac scumteam.

[Robz888]

Although Eevee was looking pretty eager.

[Robz888]

I will vote for Jimm or Galzria. Anyone else here?

[Eevee]

I will vote for Jimm or Galzria. Anyone else here?

convimce the IC's and i snap jimm

[Robz888]

I will vote for Jimm or Galzria. Anyone else here?

convimce the IC's and i snap jimm

Please?

Vote: Jimm

[Eevee]

when is the dl? would be great to get the IC's here..

[Robz888]

In 2 hours and 10 minutes, right?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

So I am taking my kid to the aquarium soon, so I will be offline for awhile, past deadline.  Plus, weekends suck for Blitz.

This setup allows for no lynches...might be worth forcing a no lynch by having no one vote.

I am NOT caught up, but wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, as it is incorrect.  Rule #6 under "Voting" in the OP reads:

6. You may NOT Vote: No Lynch.

[Robz888]

FOS: ICs

 

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 2.3


Eevee (1) - Insomniac,
Jimmm (1) - Robz888
Robz (3) - Ashersky, Galzria, Eevee

Not voting: Jimmm, Destierro

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Friday, Dec. 21, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 95 minutes from now)

[Robz888]

Oh. Then it kind of seems like some people dumped votes on me--that will eventually kill me--and then disappeared. But one of those people (the town one) is still here, and another one (the IC) is, well, an IC.

That just leaves one obvscum, I'll spell it out, G-A-L-Z-R-I-A...

[Robz888]

Vote: Galzria

[Robz888]

Vote: anyone but me, obviously.

[Robz888]

Help.

[ashersky]

So I am taking my kid to the aquarium soon, so I will be offline for awhile, past deadline.  Plus, weekends suck for Blitz.

This setup allows for no lynches...might be worth forcing a no lynch by having no one vote.

I am NOT caught up, but wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, as it is incorrect.  Rule #6 under "Voting" in the OP reads:

6. You may NOT Vote: No Lynch.

But we can no vote to force a tie.

[ashersky]

Help.

True thoughts on Eevee?

[Galzria]

Oh. Then it kind of seems like some people dumped votes on me--that will eventually kill me--and then disappeared. But one of those people (the town one) is still here, and another one (the IC) is, well, an IC.

That just leaves one obvscum, I'll spell it out, G-A-L-Z-R-I-A...

Try again.

Let me help you.

Eevee is town, and your town?

That makes the scum team Me+Ins+Jim?

Insomniac was online earlier, AFTER you were at L-1.

So, please, continue scrambling.

[Robz888]

Help.

True thoughts on Eevee?

May very well be scum, but I've been banking on his towniness like the whole game, and last time I did that in a Blitz game, I was right (still lose the game though).

[ashersky]

unvote

[ashersky]

Oh. Then it kind of seems like some people dumped votes on me--that will eventually kill me--and then disappeared. But one of those people (the town one) is still here, and another one (the IC) is, well, an IC.

That just leaves one obvscum, I'll spell it out, G-A-L-Z-R-I-A...

Try again.

Let me help you.

Eevee is town, and your town?

That makes the scum team Me+Ins+Jim?

Insomniac was online earlier, AFTER you were at L-1.

So, please, continue scrambling.

Did Ins post in the QT?

vote: Galz, final answer.

And where is destierro to take some pressure off me?

[Galzria]

Oh. Then it kind of seems like some people dumped votes on me--that will eventually kill me--and then disappeared. But one of those people (the town one) is still here, and another one (the IC) is, well, an IC.

That just leaves one obvscum, I'll spell it out, G-A-L-Z-R-I-A...

Try again.

Let me help you.

Eevee is town, and your town?

That makes the scum team Me+Ins+Jim?

Insomniac was online earlier, AFTER you were at L-1.

So, please, continue scrambling.

Did Ins post in the QT?

vote: Galz, final answer.

And where is destierro to take some pressure off me?

Check his freaking profile.

[Galzria]

Here's the link to help you:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=613

[Robz888]

Yeah, not having Des around is creating problems. Granted, all of us were not around at various points, but he has showed up barely at all today.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

So I am taking my kid to the aquarium soon, so I will be offline for awhile, past deadline.  Plus, weekends suck for Blitz.

This setup allows for no lynches...might be worth forcing a no lynch by having no one vote.

I am NOT caught up, but wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, as it is incorrect.  Rule #6 under "Voting" in the OP reads:

6. You may NOT Vote: No Lynch.

But we can no vote to force a tie.

Any tie, even a 7-way one, will trigger the Hidden Democracy mechanism.

[ashersky]

Here's the link to help you:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=613

I get that.  Was being facetious on the QT.

That said, I don't see town checking his whereabouts if Robz is a scum lynch.  I see scum looking for partners to get a town lynch.

You or Robz has to be scum.  Neither of you look like prob!town to me.  I'm going off of reactions to votes/wagons.

Robz under reacting to L-1 means he is scum knowing the hammer won't come, or calm town...damn now I am thinking back on Robz not getting hammered...

Gah.

[Galzria]

This game will use the hidden democracy method to determine lynches when votes are tied at the deadline. This means that if Player X and Y are tied at deadline, I lock the thread, EVERYONE sends me a PM of which player they are voting for (X or Y). The player that receives the most this way is lynched. If neither player has a majority, no lynch occurs. The results of the vote are made public afterwards, and are useful information.

[ashersky]

So I am taking my kid to the aquarium soon, so I will be offline for awhile, past deadline.  Plus, weekends suck for Blitz.

This setup allows for no lynches...might be worth forcing a no lynch by having no one vote.

I am NOT caught up, but wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, as it is incorrect.  Rule #6 under "Voting" in the OP reads:

6. You may NOT Vote: No Lynch.

But we can no vote to force a tie.

Any tie, even a 7-way one, will trigger the Hidden Democracy mechanism.

Which can allow for no-lynch, is what I'm getting at.

(Mod NB -- the perpetual tie issue was why I went a different direction on blitz forced lynches.  Gaming unique votes is doable, but public, so hopefully caught by the town)

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 2.4


Eevee (1) - Insomniac,
Robz (2) -  Galzria, Eevee
Galzria (2) - Robz888, Ashersky

Not voting: Jimmm, Destierro

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Friday, Dec. 21, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 79 minutes from now)

[Robz888]

I'm positive Galz and Eevee are not both scum, which is why I think we should vote for Jimm (or Ins, but I have a better feeling about Jimm).

Eevee agrees with this. Galz does not.

Which brings me back to Galz being scum.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

This game will use the hidden democracy method to determine lynches when votes are tied at the deadline. This means that if Player X and Y are tied at deadline, I lock the thread, EVERYONE sends me a PM of which player they are voting for (X or Y). The player that receives the most this way is lynched. If neither player has a majority, no lynch occurs. The results of the vote are made public afterwards, and are useful information.

This is to confirm that it IS possible for no lynch to occur, under the bolded rule above. However, such a situation would only arise after the Hidden Democracy mechanism was carried to its conclusion.

[Eevee]

I think galz is better than Robz, but jimm and Ins see both better. home in 30min

[Robz888]

I think galz is better than Robz, but jimm and Ins see both better. home in 30min

I agree!!!

[Robz888]

I am going to be leaving--for good--like any minute. Gah, I can try to check on my phone at some point I guess.

[Galzria]

Oh look, Ins is on. Game over.

[Insomniac]

I prefer Galz I guess :/

Vote: Galz

[Galzria]

I prefer Galz I guess :/

Vote: Galz

Of course you do.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 2.5


Robz (2) -  Galzria, Eevee
Galzria (3) - Robz888, Ashersky, Insomniac

Not voting: Jimmm, Destierro

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Friday, Dec. 21, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 65 minutes from now)

[Eevee]

Happy I won't be missing the deadline. Unhappy I have to choose between galz and Robz, very sure one of them is town so both ins and Jimm are scum our ic's are somehow ignoring.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

59 minutes to deadline

[Galzria]

There's nothing left to say. Hammer me if you want Eevee. I'm freaking done. Robz and Co. win, and at this point, I really don't give a damn.

[Eevee]

There's nothing left to say. Hammer me if you want Eevee. I'm freaking done. Robz and Co. win, and at this point, I really don't give a damn.

I don't want to. I would really rather go after Jimm or Ins, so sure they are both scummy scumsters. Home now, online until the deadline!

[Eevee]

Annoying self meta argument: I only leave parties early to catch the deadline when I'm town.

IC'S for the love of god come online and trust me. I know you realize I'm town by now.

[Galzria]

There's nothing left to say. Hammer me if you want Eevee. I'm freaking done. Robz and Co. win, and at this point, I really don't give a damn.

I don't want to. I would really rather go after Jimm or Ins, so sure they are both scummy scumsters. Home now, online until the deadline!

Your lack of hammer has proven you're town at least. So yeah, I'll lynch either Ins or Jimm

[Eevee]

Either Jimmm or Ins and we win this game.

[Galzria]

There's nothing left to say. Hammer me if you want Eevee. I'm freaking done. Robz and Co. win, and at this point, I really don't give a damn.

I don't want to. I would really rather go after Jimm or Ins, so sure they are both scummy scumsters. Home now, online until the deadline!

Your lack of hammer has proven you're town at least. So yeah, I'll lynch either Ins or Jimm

And then I'll lynch the other once the first flips scum.

[Eevee]

Vote: Jimmm Lets freaking do this, join me in lynching scum!

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

45 minutes to deadline

[Galzria]

Vote: Insomniac

[Eevee]

Vote: Insomniac

Welp?

[Eevee]

Mega-fos at robz for posting in other threads and not being here now!

[Galzria]

I'll switch to Jimmm to. Don't care at this point. Eevee is the other town so it doesn't matter which order they go in.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 2.6



Corrected:


Galzria (3) - Robz888, Ashersky, Insomniac
Jimmmmm (1) - Eevee
Insomniac (1) - Galzria

Not voting: Jimmm, Destierro

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Friday, Dec. 21, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 43 minutes from now)

[Insomniac]

Scummies trying to redirect. This proves robz is town to me

[Galzria]

Sorry Eevee, didn't see your vote on Jimmm.

Vote: Jimmmm

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 2.7


Galzria (3) - Robz888, Ashersky, Insomniac
Jimmmmm (1) - Eevee, Galzria

Not voting: Jimmm, Destierro

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is today, Friday, Dec. 21, at 8:00 PM forum time. (about 42 minutes from now)

[Destierro]

Vote: Galz

[Eevee]

Ins is so obvscum though, lolololol. Galzria wanting to vote for him clears him a bit. I think Jimm is better.


Dest being busy today and ashersky missing this deadline is REALLY killing this town though. WE CANT LYNCH WITHOUT YOU GUYS.

If this goes to the hidden democracy, every freaking townie has got to freaking vote for the guy I am voting when the deadline falls. OTHERWISE WE JUST LOSE. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Everyone seems to realize I'm not this good a scum player, so please.

[Eevee]

OOOOOH DEST IS HERE, excellent.

[Eevee]

Why Galz?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

THREAD LOCKED!

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Final Vote Count D2  2.8


Galzria (3) - Robz888, Ashersky, Insomniac, Destierro
Jimmmmm (1) - Eevee, Galzria

Not voting: Jimmmm

Stand by

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I apologize for the lack of flavor, and the brevity, but it's Christmas and Friday (or Saturday for some), so let's just do this.

Galzria is Vanilla Town.


Scumteam is Robz/Jimmmm/Insomniac

Mafia wins flawlessly.

Will post more in the coming moments.

[Eevee]

who would have thunk. kind of annoyed at our town now.

[Dsell]

BOOOOOOO

[Dsell]

Eevee are you mafia?

[Eevee]

I WANT TO BE AN IC AND NOT A FREAKING VT IN EVERY GAME SO I CAN UNDERSTAND AND NOT BE THIS UPSET EVERY TIME THEY MAKE A MISTAKE.

 

fun game though, wp jimmm/ins/robz.

[Robz888]

Why am I so much better at playing mafia than playing town...

[Eevee]

NO IM NOT AND EVERYONE WHO THOUGHT I WAS KNOWS NOTHING OF READING ME

[Dsell]

Ughhhhhh

[Eevee]

god losing these as town when people dont just believe you suck.

galzria, our communication also sucked. we should have been able to reach a consensus. why did it go that badly?

[Jimmmmm]

Holy crap how did we win?

[Eevee]

i guess we eventually found eachother, but then dest came and derphammered.

[Eevee]

IMAGINE BOTH SCUM WERE ONLINE AND NOT POSTING

gweglaekopafgegskoegskwegskåwgkåpwgkåwgkåpå

[Eevee]

lalalalalalalala.

 

[Jimmmmm]

No I was asleep I swear, sorry for missing the end.

[Dsell]

[Destierro]

Sorry guys.

[Dsell]

I am REALLY surprised it wasn't Jimmmmm/Eevee/Galz.

But Jimmmm was OBVSCUM.

So very frustrated.

[Robz888]

Quicktopic crashed right at the moment when I was frantically demanding Jimm show up and seal the deal. Although I missed opportunities earlier to hammer for the win.

[Eevee]

[Robz888]

I am REALLY surprised it wasn't Jimmmmm/Eevee/Galz.

But Jimmmm was OBVSCUM.

So very frustrated.

All I could do was keep offering to lynch Jimm, and smiling to my self when for some reason no one followed me in doing so.

[Dsell]

Because you were sooooooo scummmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[Robz888]

Going on a date folks, I'll catchup later.

[Eevee]

Quicktopic crashing kind of really sucks for scum, i was wondering why you didnt win earlier when both our ic's where so blatantly wrong. you did deserve this obviously.

@dest
No problem it is very hard to be an ic. you were the scummiest ic ever though, voting for a townie day 1 and then not contributing at all day 2 just to come and hammer a townie 

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Mafia Team was Robz, Insom, Jimmm (Sorry for leaving that out of the game ender. I'm new)

I will entertain thoughts about an MVP.  Off the top of my head, it's either Robz888 (for winning while lurking, though I haven't counted posts), or Galzria, (for calling most or all of the actual scumteam fairly early, and repeatedly).

Also, I need to bring up a topic for discussion that I did not anticipate occurring. Upon Dsell's demise, I offered him the speccy QT if he wanted it, and he asked if he could have the setup instead.  I said no, and explained why, and promised to bring it up at game conclusion.  I also promised to consult with other mods (which I did) and let him know if I changed my mind (which I didn't).

So what do we think about dead players, of either team, having the solution after they die?  Discuss, while I go change the OP.

[Dsell]

I admit that I'm not good at reading you. But my lynch was VERY bad and you were all over it until the last minute.

[Eevee]

HOW WAS I SCUMMY? for trying to push through a plan that would seal a town win with all my power?

[Eevee]

I admit that I'm not good at reading you. But my lynch was VERY bad and you were all over it until the last minute.

then I realized it was and changed. i did not want you to die. why was your lynch VERY bad though? both ic's and galz seemed to like it..

i dont mean you couldnt read me as scum from day 1. did you read day 2?

[Dsell]

Insomniac was MVP here in my mind. I was really really sure he was town.


He was also the ONLY PERSON who was considering what the 3rd IC (me) was saying AT ALL.

[Eevee]

i think dead players should just wait for the game the end, at least in blitz setups. also think individual mods deciding it depending on the situation is very reasonable, dont really need a hard rule for something like that.

[Eevee]

Insomniac was MVP here in my mind. I was really really sure he was town.


He was also the ONLY PERSON who was considering what the 3rd IC (me) was saying AT ALL.

WHAT? were we reading the same game? IM SO CONFUSED.

[Dsell]

I admit that I'm not good at reading you. But my lynch was VERY bad and you were all over it until the last minute.

then I realized it was and changed. i did not want you to die. why was your lynch VERY bad though? both ic's and galz seemed to like it..

i dont mean you couldnt read me as scum from day 1. did you read day 2?

Don't get me started...

No, I was really sure you were scum day 2. But I was MOST sure Jimmmm was scum.

[Eevee]

Fwiw, sorry if I offended anyone. This was a fun game, and I'm upset my efforts weren't enough to get my team a win. 

[Eevee]

Fwiw, sorry if I offended anyone. This was a fun game, and I'm upset my efforts weren't enough to get my team a win. 

And thankyou SfS for modding.

[Dsell]

Insomniac was MVP here in my mind. I was really really sure he was town.


He was also the ONLY PERSON who was considering what the 3rd IC (me) was saying AT ALL.

WHAT? were we reading the same game? IM SO CONFUSED.

I mean, he was scum, but he was the only one who did the sensible thing, ie looking back at what I said! You guys came around to Jimmm eventually but it was a PoE thing.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Fwiw, sorry if I offended anyone. This was a fun game, and I'm upset my efforts weren't enough to get my team a win. 

And thankyou SfS for modding.

You are most welcome.  It was fun, and instructive.

[Eevee]

Insomniac was MVP here in my mind. I was really really sure he was town.


He was also the ONLY PERSON who was considering what the 3rd IC (me) was saying AT ALL.

WHAT? were we reading the same game? IM SO CONFUSED.

Well you were screaming for everyone to lynch me so pardon me if I didn't think your reads were all that helpful..

Early day 2 I figured out a way for town to win, lynch Jimm and Ins in either order. I really really tried to get the IC's and the other townie to believe me. We had a lot of trouble with Galzria, but eventually I think we found an agreement. IC's stopped suspecting me but for some reason never seemed to consider my plan either. Before we got to talk, Dest hammered a townie.
I mean, he was scum, but he was the only one who did the sensible thing, ie looking back at what I said! You guys came around to Jimmm eventually but it was a PoE thing.

[ashersky]

Wow.  MVP is Roz for using LALL wifom against himself.

Galz, Eevee, Dsell ended up seeming scummiest to me, and they were in fact a team, just my team.

Welp, I suck at this.

[Eevee]

Fixed:

Well you were screaming for everyone to lynch me so pardon me if I didn't think your reads were all that helpful..

Early day 2 I figured out a way for town to win, lynch Jimm and Ins in either order. I really really tried to get the IC's and the other townie to believe me. We had a lot of trouble with Galzria, but eventually I think we found an agreement. IC's stopped suspecting me but for some reason never seemed to consider my plan either. Before we got to talk, Dest hammered a townie.

And what I meant to say is.. I don't think I needed to read back. I would have needed to get people listen to what I had to say.

Also, I support someone from the scum team being the MVP. Sorry Galzria, I just dont think this town deserves it, we didnt do good 

[Dsell]

I always said to lynch Jimmmm first. But yeah, my reads were not perfect, not even close. But lynching Jimmmmm was SO obvious and I can't believe it didn't happen.

[Eevee]

I always said to lynch Jimmmm first. But yeah, my reads were not perfect, not even close. But lynching Jimmmmm was SO obvious and I can't believe it didn't happen.

Beyond me why the IC's found him towny, but they did. Ins and Jimmm were SO obvscum 

[Jimmmmm]

Can I ask what was so scummy about me?

[Jimmmmm]

ash though I was Town, and near the end of the game Galz said he would bet the game on me, so I'm not really sure what to make of it.

[Dsell]

I'm sorry I didn't believe you Eevee, I wish I believed you and Galz over Insom and Robz. I don't fault you for the loss, though.

[Eevee]

Can I ask what was so scummy about me?

Well okay I cheated, Galz and Robz had NO reason to stage that fight early day 2, so I knew they couldnt both be scum and I also knew myself to be town.

I was voting for you day 1, but then I wasn't nowhere near sure, just thought you were the scummiest.

[Dsell]

Can I ask what was so scummy about me?

Well your scumslip was pretty bad. I suppose it's possible to be town after that, but it would be really really bad and incendiary town play.

[Eevee]

I'm sorry I didn't believe you Eevee, I wish I believed you and Galz over Insom and Robz. I don't fault you for the loss, though.

I literally did EVERYTHING I could think of, I was so sure I was right... I'd really want to play this setup as an IC to see what it's like on the other side. I've played this every time and been vt in every game, what like 4-5 games now?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

QTs are listed in the OP.  If I've left anything out that I should post, let me know.  Thank you everyone, for playing.

Ashersky, you've been doing most of these, and I don't want to steal one.  If you want to play, I'm happy to do another, and at this point modding is as much (if not more) fun as playing.

I would be willing to set another one up on the Monday after Christmas, but New Year's Eve might become an issue.

[Eevee]

Can I ask what was so scummy about me?

Well your scumslip was pretty bad. I suppose it's possible to be town after that, but it would be really really bad and incendiary town play.

yeah, that led to voting you day 1.

[Dsell]

Also whyyyyyyyy did Galz vote for me instead of putting it to hidden majority??!!?!?!

[Jimmmmm]

Can I ask what was so scummy about me?

Well your scumslip was pretty bad. I suppose it's possible to be town after that, but it would be really really bad and incendiary town play.

I'm still not sure that was a scumslip. The thing is, all my "scrambling" was actually true. When I first talked about the wagon, I was talking about Galz' post saying everyone except me had expressed willingness to vote for you. Then my mind was on other things, so I forgot what I had been talking about and didn't make the effort to go back and check.

[ashersky]

You can take the next one, but would suggest going back to the original set up with ICs instead of Masons.

[Eevee]

I prefer the IC setup as well, if it matters.

[Dsell]

Interesting that my really really early scumread on Insom was correct. I knew he should be able to read me better!

@Jimmmmm it sure seemed like a scumslip, and your reaction to things was also extremely scummy.

You can't just FOS whole wagons without even checking or knowing who is on the wagon.

[Jimmmmm]

Obviously the fact that we won makes me feel better about it, but in general I hate playing as scum. I think just arguing about something which I know is wrong just doesn't sit well with me. And then sometimes you have to argue for something which you don't actually want to happen.

I think I'm going to opt out of blitz games for a while. I think they're great, there's just a lot of pressure to be on at the right times, which kind of sucks for my timezone. Also, I think I should restrict myself to probably two games at a time. So maybe I'll join another blitz game in the new year or something.

Anyway, thanks SFS for modding. I'm happy to backup mod if required for the next one, but I won't be playing.

[Dsell]

@Jimmmm yeah there is a TON of pressure in this setup, for a lot of reasons. Whew. I was harsh in here and in the QT, but I hope nobody takes anything personally, I certainly don't mean it that way!

[sparky5856]

Wow, surprised Galz wasn't scum. I pegged Robz pretty early on in the spectator QT, should have stuck with that line of thinking.

[Voltgloss]

I think it would be interesting, in the next game (assuming it uses the IC route), for players to democratically elect 2 of their number to be IC's before alignments are doled out.

To let the Eevees of the world take their turn at the helm. 

[Voltgloss]

I still laugh every time I remember this setup is named in the mafiascum wiki as "Less Pressure." 

[Dsell]

I still laugh every time I remember this setup is named in the mafiascum wiki as "Less Pressure." 

Oh pshhhhhhaaaaaw

[Eevee]

I would like to try scum choosing the IC's actually.

[Jimmmmm]

You can't just FOS whole wagons without even checking or knowing who is on the wagon.

Well fair enough, but I didn't see it as any different than saying "There must be scum on the wagon", which had been said plenty of times before me.

[Insomniac]

So first of all hurray. Thanks to sfs for modding. And I will say at no point was I offended except when ash suggested I might be faking RL emergency. I assure you I am not. I realized on day 2 I had to push Eevee Jim. And realized hey that's what DSell wanted. Sheep sheep.

Additionally this is the first game I played as scum where I did ZERO Husain jus so that if I became obvscum my meta wouldn't give away my teammates

[Jimmmmm]

I would like to try scum choosing the IC's actually.

That could be cool. Major WIFOM.

[ashersky]

So first of all hurray. Thanks to sfs for modding. And I will say at no point was I offended except when ash suggested I might be faking RL emergency. I assure you I am not. I realized on day 2 I had to push Eevee Jim. And realized hey that's what DSell wanted. Sheep sheep.

Additionally this is the first game I played as scum where I did ZERO Husain jus so that if I became obvscum my meta wouldn't give away my teammates

Insom, I specifically said we should assume you are not faking, and ruled you out of lynch discussions, focusing on the other four.

Sorry if you thought otherwise.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I would like to try scum choosing the IC's actually.

That actually has potential, unless I've missed something.  And I'm happy to go back to the ICs.

Ashersky - reminding you that you had a twist (or tweak)* to the IC setup.  Wanna post it?


*sorry, when I typed this, I heard Elmer Fudd at a Halloween door saying "twist or tweak".

[Dsell]

This game was a blast. A stressful, heart-pounding blast, but a blast. Thanks, SFS! If I can, I'll totally sign up for the next one.

[ashersky]

I would like to try scum choosing the IC's actually.

That actually has potential, unless I've missed something.  And I'm happy to go back to the ICs.

Ashersky - reminding you that you had a twist (or tweak)* to the IC setup.  Wanna post it?


*sorry, when I typed this, I heard Elmer Fudd at a Halloween door saying "twist or tweak".

The masons was one tweak.  The other idea we kicked around was letting the ICs tell the mod when they wanted to be announced, instead of automatically at game start.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

This game was a blast. A stressful, heart-pounding blast, but a blast. Thanks, SFS! If I can, I'll totally sign up for the next one.

Well, I'll give you fair warning:  The signup process will be EXACTLY the same.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I would like to try scum choosing the IC's actually.

That actually has potential, unless I've missed something.  And I'm happy to go back to the ICs.

Ashersky - reminding you that you had a twist (or tweak)* to the IC setup.  Wanna post it?


*sorry, when I typed this, I heard Elmer Fudd at a Halloween door saying "twist or tweak".

The masons was one tweak.  The other idea we kicked around was letting the ICs tell the mod when they wanted to be announced, instead of automatically at game start.

I like that also.  In fact, I like that better than letting the players elect, and better than letting mafia elect.

[Eevee]

Requires the mod being online though, which is sort of undesirable although not overly impossible to work with.

[Jimmmmm]

Requires the mod being online though, which is sort of undesirable although not overly impossible to work with.

Not necessarily I think. If the mod promises to confirm someone, then I don't see there being any fakeclaims, because a fakeclaim can't even draw out a real claim because you'd just wait for mod confirmation. I guess just assume any claims are real but don't lynch until you get confirmation.

[Jimmmmm]

Or the "IC" PM could include some sort of codeword that only the ICs know. That way the ICs can back each other up once one of them has claimed.

[Archetype]

That actually has potential, unless I've missed something.  And I'm happy to go back to the ICs.

Ashersky - reminding you that you had a twist (or tweak)* to the IC setup.  Wanna post it?


*sorry, when I typed this, I heard Elmer Fudd at a Halloween door saying "twist or tweak".

I think you mean Archetype, and yes, I do.

Instead of 2 ICs, you have 2 'Best Friends' (The "standard" term for players who know each other to be Town but are unable to speak to each other privately). It's a variation of a Mason. The 2 Best Friends are confirmed Town to one another. They can both claim D1, and the game would be the same as if they were ICs, or they could wait.

Maybe it's not needed, I mean, scum won this game. But I still feel that Masons are too good in this setup. I think the reason they lost is because ashersky and Desterio didn't use their daychat too effectively.

[yuma]

approximate post counts again:

63
88
214
53
139
134
18
85

Once again scum is on the low end (63, 88, 53) when you disregard the ICs.

[Eevee]

we had extra scummy ic's in this game.

[Dsell]

approximate post counts again:

63
88
214
53
139
134
18
85

Once again scum is on the low end (63, 88, 53) when you disregard the ICs.

Who's who?

[yuma]

approximate post counts again:

63 Jimm
88 robz
214 eevee
53 insom
139 galz
134 dsell
18 dest
85 ash


Jimmmm
Robz
Eevee
Insomniac
Galzria
Dsell
Destierro
ashersky
Once again scum is on the low end (63, 88, 53) when you disregard the ICs.

Who's who?

[ashersky]

we had extra scummy ic's in this game.

VTs were super scummy, too.

[Dsell]

we had extra scummy ic's in this game.

VTs were super scummy, too.

Jimmm was super scummy, too.

[Eevee]

scum, scum everywhere!

[Jimmmmm]

ash, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my game. You said a number of times, "I know how Jim plays and this is more like Town Jim." You turned out to be wrong, but I'd still like to know what you were basing that on.

[ashersky]

ash, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my game. You said a number of times, "I know how Jim plays and this is more like Town Jim." You turned out to be wrong, but I'd still like to know what you were basing that on.

I have watched literally every game you've played.  That includes your QTs.  I think (thought) I read you pretty well.  Your first game as scum you were different.  I think having the chance to be scum again right away helped you adjust.  You do we'll at conveying honesty through tone, which I picked up on.

Dsell found you scummy, others POEed to you.  I just felt surer of my ability to read you.  Good job there.

[Jimmmmm]

ash, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my game. You said a number of times, "I know how Jim plays and this is more like Town Jim." You turned out to be wrong, but I'd still like to know what you were basing that on.

I have watched literally every game you've played.  That includes your QTs.  I think (thought) I read you pretty well.  Your first game as scum you were different.  I think having the chance to be scum again right away helped you adjust.  You do we'll at conveying honesty through tone, which I picked up on.

Dsell found you scummy, others POEed to you.  I just felt surer of my ability to read you.  Good job there.

My general scum plan has been "Well when I'm Town I'm really really unsure, so I'll try to do that now." I also think I should learn to be bolder when I'm Town, and I guess I should wait until I'm Town again to do that (there's some WIFOM for you).

[Jimmmmm]

What about this for the next game? The first day has a 48-hour deadline, and after 24 hours two ICs are revealed as selected by scum.

FAQ: If a lynch occurs in the first 24 hours, scum cannot choose the dead Townie as an IC. If scum fail to choose ICs, they are randomly selected.

[shraeye]

I prefer the IC setup as well, if it matters.

Yup, me too.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I prefer the IC setup as well, if it matters.

Yup, me too.

We know this about you Shraeye.  We've seen you work.

BTW, did you read ZM7?

[shraeye]

I prefer the IC setup as well, if it matters.

Yup, me too.

We know this about you Shraeye.  We've seen you work.

BTW, did you read ZM7?

Yup, gotta love homework assignments.

[Dsell]

I prefer the IC setup as well, if it matters.

Yup, me too.

We know this about you Shraeye.  We've seen you work.

BTW, did you read ZM7?

Yup, gotta love homework assignments.

These Blitz games just haven't gone my way. Lost both of them, and they're my only two losses as far as normal games go.