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[WanderingWinder]

Re-reading, I see your confusion. The actual card you bought must be gained after all the on-buy effects trigger. Which it doesn't look like I am saying above. Anyhow, I think we are all clear now, yes?

[Jeebus]

I don't see where WW says that.  It's just about the haggled Gold and the Curses...?

Re-read it. He's saying exactly that. I'm trying to see how it can be interpreted in any other way, but I cannot.

Re-reading, I see your confusion. The actual card you bought must be gained after all the on-buy effects trigger. Which it doesn't look like I am saying above. Anyhow, I think we are all clear now, yes?

We are just as clear as we were before your first post. (That sounds rude but I don't mean it to be. Just stating it plainly.) I get that Donald's saying that you can't gain the Haggled card in-between the two Curses. But what I was saying was that to me that sounds like a new ruling, and if so what would that ruling be? "Simultaneous events triggered by one card cannot be broken up by an event happening simultaneously triggered by another card?" (just pasting in what I wrote the first time. Not a good phrasing then, not good now.)

[WanderingWinder]

I don't see where WW says that.  It's just about the haggled Gold and the Curses...?

Re-read it. He's saying exactly that. I'm trying to see how it can be interpreted in any other way, but I cannot.

Re-reading, I see your confusion. The actual card you bought must be gained after all the on-buy effects trigger. Which it doesn't look like I am saying above. Anyhow, I think we are all clear now, yes?

We are just as clear as we were before your first post. (That sounds rude but I don't mean it to be. Just stating it plainly.) I get that Donald's saying that you can't gain the Haggled card in-between the two Curses. But what I was saying was that to me that sounds like a new ruling, and if so what would that ruling be? "Simultaneous events triggered by one card cannot be broken up by an event happening simultaneously triggered by another card?" (just pasting in what I wrote the first time. Not a good phrasing then, not good now.)

The point that I was trying to make in my first post, and that got covered up in the other confusion, is that this isn't a new ruling. Gaining all the curses is a single event.

[AJD]

I get that Donald's saying that you can't gain the Haggled card in-between the two Curses. But what I was saying was that to me that sounds like a new ruling, and if so what would that ruling be? "Simultaneous events triggered by one card cannot be broken up by an event happening simultaneously triggered by another card?" (just pasting in what I wrote the first time. Not a good phrasing then, not good now.)

I don't think that's a new ruling—or if it is, it's one we've all implicitly understood for a while. No one would think, for example, that when you buy a Noble Brigand with Haggler in play you can first trash your opponent's Gold, then gain a card via Haggler, and then gain the trashed Gold.

I think the way to describe the ruling is "when two cards have an effect at the same time, you resolve the cards one at a time".

[zahlman]

No one would think, for example, that when you buy a Noble Brigand with Haggler in play you can first trash your opponent's Gold, then gain a card via Haggler, and then gain the trashed Gold.

Obligatory challenge to find a situation where it would matter

[Jeebus]

I don't think that's a new ruling—or if it is, it's one we've all implicitly understood for a while. No one would think, for example, that when you buy a Noble Brigand with Haggler in play you can first trash your opponent's Gold, then gain a card via Haggler, and then gain the trashed Gold.

I think the way to describe the ruling is "when two cards have an effect at the same time, you resolve the cards one at a time".

Noble Brigand's when-buy instructions: Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold that you choose, and discards the rest. ... You gain the trashed cards.

It's not exactly the same thing, because Noble Brigand's when-buy instructions are not simultaneous events, but rather several things happening after each other. But your example made me finally see the connection now. Just like an event (buying a card) can trigger a card's ability (Noble Brigand) consisting of a series of consecutive events, so also can an event trigger a card's ability (Embargo) consisting of simultaneous events. Since all of the events in the first case are part of the card's triggered ability, they must all be resolved when that ability is resolved, and then that should also go for the second case.

Donald's explanation (in the other thread I linked to) that gaining the two Curses are actually two events is what tripped me up. Even though they are two events, that doesn't automatically mean they are "equal" to other simultaneous events. I think you're right it's a rule that's implicitly understood.

[Drab Emordnilap]

No one would think, for example, that when you buy a Noble Brigand with Haggler in play you can first trash your opponent's Gold, then gain a card via Haggler, and then gain the trashed Gold.

Obligatory challenge to find a situation where it would matter

Kingdom: Highway, Market Square, Haggler, Watchtower, Knights, Noble Brigand, Ironmonger, Market, and 2 other cards


I play three Highways, 3 Markets, and Haggler. I play Gold. I have Market Square and Watchtower (and an Estate) in hand. I have $8, 4 buys, and everything costs $3 less. I buy Noble Brigand, trashing my opponent's gold. I reveal and discard Market Square, gaining and topdecking a Gold. Haggler gains a Market Square, topdecking it. I gain my opponent's gold, topdecking it. The top of my deck is Gold, Market Square, Gold.(Without resolving the Haggler in the middle, this would not be possible.)

Then I buy Gold, gaining Haggler, Gold, gaining Ironmonger, and Sir Martin, topdecking all 5 cards. Haggler gains me a Curse from Sir Martin, which I trash with Watchtower. Now the top of my deck, in order, is

Sir Martin, Ironmonger, Gold, Haggler, Gold, Gold, Market Square, Gold

My next turn, I draw Sir Martin, Ironmonger, Gold, Haggler, Gold. I want to get an extra action to play both my terminals. This is only possible because I put Market square in between the two Golds, so Ironmonger draws the first Gold, and reveals the Market Square.


EDIT: Market Square doesn't care when I make my opponent trash cards.