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[jucee]

In two rare instances of my Dominion career, I have had people insulting me or dismissing my victory because I "copycatting", that is, playing a similar or identical strategy as my opponent, when I'm in the 2p position. I certainly don't adopt the opponent strategy as a rule, but of course, sometimes the cards are such that there's really only one way to go.

I mean, if someone's strategy consists purely of copying the opponent, shouldn't he/she tend to lose, since they'll be playing suboptimally to their draws?

My two questions are 1) has this ever happened to you, and 2) can we agree, as a community, that this is a really stupid complaint to have?

[DG]

I've certainly been playing games where I thought my opponent needed a certain card for a deck and I was reluctant to buy it myself, knowing that the opponent would probably copy. I usually buy it anyway and so does the opponent immediately after, leaving me still unsure whether I helped them or not.

[TWoos]

Yes.  Frequently.

Yes.  I see you buy a card, and I realize "Oh, I need that too!"  I don't copy you because I have no strategy of my own.

[RD]

In Dominion, sometimes there is a right and a wrong strategy, and in those cases, good players will both wind up choosing the right one. (Although they'll usually differ on the details to a greater or lesser extent, even if only because you each have to make the best of your own shuffle luck). If your opponent is not knowledgeable enough to understand this, I would not worry too much about his opinion of your play.

I've certainly been playing games where I thought my opponent needed a certain card for a deck and I was reluctant to buy it myself, knowing that the opponent would probably copy. I usually buy it anyway and so does the opponent immediately after, leaving me still unsure whether I helped them or not.

Usually I try to be philosophical about this. I'm trying to improve my game, which means playing against and beating stronger opponents, not weaker ones. If giving my opponent a little hint makes him play better, hey, that's good for me too.

It's the same reason I try to resist going for unsound trap strategies. I play as though my opponent is a very good player. If it turns out he is a weak player, I should still beat him anyway; I don't need to practice my beating-up-on-weak-players strategy in order to beat those guys. (Admittedly, this mindset is a carryover from chess, where the luck element is so small that weak players don't pose nearly as much of a threat as in Dominion. So the logic is a little suspect here.)

But then I don't have a particularly impressive rating to protect either.

[DWetzel]

In two rare instances of my Dominion career, I have had people insulting me or dismissing my victory because I "copycatting", that is, playing a similar or identical strategy as my opponent, when I'm in the 2p position. I certainly don't adopt the opponent strategy as a rule, but of course, sometimes the cards are such that there's really only one way to go.

I mean, if someone's strategy consists purely of copying the opponent, shouldn't he/she tend to lose, since they'll be playing suboptimally to their draws?

My two questions are 1) has this ever happened to you, and 2) can we agree, as a community, that this is a really stupid complaint to have?

Tell them "yeah, well you copycatted me first, I thought of this as soon as I saw the board and you stole my idea".  That usually shuts them up.

Alternatively, tell them to take it as a compliment that you thought their idea was worth pursuing.  After all, if they opened Village/Village, you probably wouldn't have followed them, right?

[Ozle]

I spend the next 5 minutes copy pasting whatever they say into the chat box like the childish person I am!....

[Markov Chain]

One reason for copycatting is to limit the effectiveness of cards.  The last time I played a 4-player game with Pirate Ship, I started 4/3 and bought Pirate Ship, and the other two players who started 3/4 also had to go Pirate Ship; you can't allow one player to have Pirate Ships which never miss.  With three Pirates, we had a few misses and it took longer to get up to the necessary 4.

Similarly, if Minion is in play, you can limit the effectiveness if everyone buys Minions so that they run out before one player gets five or six.

[Beyond Awesome]

One reason for copycatting is to limit the effectiveness of cards.  The last time I played a 4-player game with Pirate Ship, I started 4/3 and bought Pirate Ship, and the other two players who started 3/4 also had to go Pirate Ship; you can't allow one player to have Pirate Ships which never miss.  With three Pirates, we had a few misses and it took longer to get up to the necessary 4.

Similarly, if Minion is in play, you can limit the effectiveness if everyone buys Minions so that they run out before one player gets five or six.

I wouldn't call that copycatting, but more of a denial strategy.

[Grujah]

I know that I was on both sides. Sometimes I just go the right strategy but miss a card that could help, and I copy when opponent buys it for the first time and I get the epiphany. And some times when I see their first buy, and I open something smart that they obviously missed, and than copy on second buy, I die a little inside

Also what DG said.

[DWetzel]

This isn't quite copycatting, but it's a hopefully amusing story that shows what happens when good* players copycat each other and don't quite think as much as they could be:

I was playing some insanely complicated game involving all sorts of action cards (I think Jester was involved, and University was definitely out there, and maybe Ambassador or some curser), but we were both having trouble really getting our draw going.

Sometime around turn 15, my opponent commented on this point.  And I thought about it some more.

And then I had an epiphany and grabbed a couple Envoys with my University and cash a turn or two later, and a turn or two after that so did Stef.


*I may be exercising hubris putting myself in that category.

[Davio]

I don't usually copycat, but when I do, it's with Smugglers (or Jester). 

You're free to play and buy whichever cards you want, but because of Dominion's asymmetry introduced with shuffling, you can't really copy someone's play anyway. You can both play big money with the usual decision tree, but there will be still some small optimizations you can make in the actual game.

[sudgy]

Often times me and my brother will have the same opening and we will joke around saying that one of us copied the other.

[Awaclus]

I would call it "taking into account your opponent's strategy and adjusting your own strategy accordingly" rather than "copycatting". I do it all the time when I have the feeling that my opponent is more comfortable with the kingdom than I am, as long as I (think I) understand why my opponent is making the choices he makes. Why would I make a suboptimal play when the optimal plays are presented right in front of me? Also, it's worth noting that unless you do something differently from my opponent at some point, the best you can do is a draw so there is no reason to be upset about copying.

[heron]

Well actually, you have a decent chance of winning with better shuffle luck.

[Awaclus]

Well actually, you have a decent chance of winning with better shuffle luck.

Yes, but then you have to buy something better than what your opponent bought to utilize your luck, and that isn't copying.

[heron]

Oh, I see you have a stricter definition of copying than me.

[Stealth Tomato]

I've certainly been playing games where I thought my opponent needed a certain card for a deck and I was reluctant to buy it myself, knowing that the opponent would probably copy. I usually buy it anyway and so does the opponent immediately after, leaving me still unsure whether I helped them or not.

I recall this happening a lot in Gardens multibuy kingdoms back when I was in the 20s-30s. If I didn't pick up any +Buys, I wouldn't open the Gardens, hoping my opponent would skip on them as well and allow me to open them with a 2-4 Gardens turn.

Of course, Gardens in engine games turn out to generally be a losing tactic, so that stopped happening so much when I and my opponents got better at Dominion.