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Author Topic: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder  (Read 19382 times)

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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2012, 01:15:33 pm »
0

Its a good game, I think the expansion adds a lot to it though I haven't been able to pick it up as none of my FLGS's have it yet. But I'm still playing the base game, I play dominion more obviously but you can't always play the same game.

I am curious about the expansion. The game was pretty new to me, so any tile and scoring condition was new to me, but I could see playing it a few times and wanting to see more. I also haven't seen all of the interactions between tile pieces and scoring mechanism. I can see where there is some awesome synergy (being able to more quickly build a straight line when long lines score more points) along with contradictory criteria. I would imagine the expansion would make it difficult to get bored of these combinations.

The expansion adds scoring during the game so its like not pointless to have the scoretrack and it adds more ways to screw with your opponents so that its not as friendly a game (it's easy to cut people off in 4p and reasonable in 3, its really tough in 2). So those are big pluses.

An aside Kingdom Builder DID just win the Spiel for 2012
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Kuildeous

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2012, 02:06:13 pm »
0

Okay, I just placed an order for the game and the expansion. It doesn't take much to rev my geek engine.

Maybe I'll receive them by this weekend. I have some gaming to do, and this will work great between slots.

I hate love this thread so much.
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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2012, 02:16:29 pm »
0

Okay, I just placed an order for the game and the expansion. It doesn't take much to rev my geek engine.

Maybe I'll receive them by this weekend. I have some gaming to do, and this will work great between slots.

I hate love this thread so much.

The expansion adds the ability to play 5 player btw, this is something I haven't tried and seems like it would be TOO crowded IMO.
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rrenaud

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2012, 02:27:31 pm »
+4

Wins 2 Spiel des Jahres

(Donald X face)

Still has people second guessing
game design w/o playing them
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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2012, 02:29:18 pm »
0

Wins 2 Spiel des Jahres

(Donald X face)

Still has people second guessing
game design w/o playing them

You kidding I bought infiltration blind, and I like that game, I haven't bought or looked at nefarious or monster factory much though so maybe Im not giving donald X ENOUGH of my money?
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Kuildeous

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2012, 03:16:07 pm »
0

Okay, I just placed an order for the game and the expansion. It doesn't take much to rev my geek engine.

Maybe I'll receive them by this weekend. I have some gaming to do, and this will work great between slots.

I hate love this thread so much.

The expansion adds the ability to play 5 player btw, this is something I haven't tried and seems like it would be TOO crowded IMO.

It looks like it can support 5 players pretty well. I can imagine a lot of cussing at each other as people do block others, intentionally and unintentionally. I had enough collision with 4 players.
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Young Nick

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2012, 04:47:05 pm »
+1

...I play dominion more obviously but you can't always play the same game.

I mean...not true. I could play Dominion forever and ever.

Dominion isn't a complete game yet, but I still find novel ways of appreciating it every day.

I do play other games, but I could only play Dominion if need be. I'd say at f.DS, we're more likely to say that you can never play any other game (after experiencing Dominion).
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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2012, 01:50:51 pm »
0

So I managed to play the expansion I think it really adds a lot to the game, and watch out for quarry, there is a lot of restrictions on that action and with ALL of the restrictions its still super strong. (Before your mandatory place quaries to block your only tiles of the type you have to play on)
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Kuildeous

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2012, 09:07:42 am »
0

I did discover the true power of the Quarry. I went in thinking that the Quarry's use would be to block off other players, but that would be tricky to use since you can only place walls adjacent to your own pieces, so you would be potentially screwing yourself as well.

Then I realized that if I place walls in my spaces, that makes it more likely that when I draw that terrain card, I have to go somewhere else, which really helps for capturing locations and playing up to the scoring cards that favor diversity. In a sense, it'd be like playing five buildings into a region, but it only costs you three.

I do like the game (and only played the expansion once), but I do have a couple of nitpicks.

The scoring method where you count the vertical rows is just so fidgety for me. I've only played this scoring card once, and I think there is a better way to count than what the owner of the game did (this was before I bought my own). He went through each row and added a point to each player who had something in that row. I'd have to think it'd be easier to just count for each player…probably have the player do it. So, maybe this nitpick is more about the chosen method, but it still was a bit of a chore to count the vertical rows.

In fact, I found it generally easy to get lost in the scoring. This may actually be my inexperience. Not being used to Nomads probably didn't help. I accidentally counted Nomad spaces as City spaces. In any case, I found it fidgety in general to count the different scoring methods. I don't really know how to improve that. I don't begrudge the rule, because that's what makes the game more interesting. This would make a really awesome computer game, though, especially if you are shown how a particular placement can improve your score.

There seems to be a lot of waste in the game. This isn't Donald's fault at all. This is how they shipped it. This wouldn't be the first game where I had four or five translations of the rule book, but I think this is the first time I've seen multiple translations of the cards. I even had two copies of the English translation. I can see why they did that, since some cards have the flag on the back and some don't. Still, I have an entire deck of cards that are all useless to me. I feel like I paid for something that will never see the light of day. I guess I can offer to ship them to anyone who needs replacement cards in that language.

But, it's still a fun game. I only hope that experience will help me score games more easily and quickly.

I kind of wonder if there is a variant (I haven't seen one, but that doesn't mean anything) where you actually have a hand of terrain cards. Maybe you keep two cards handy. Maybe you go crazy with three. Would that improve on the tactical side of the game when you have the opportunity to plan two or three turns ahead? I'll have to master the game first before I try that out.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2012, 09:51:50 am »
0

I find scoring's pretty easy because people generally have an idea of what they're aiming for during the game so they know what they've done. This means when you get to the scoring they can just point out what they've got to everyone else (i.e. "I'm on every vertical row apart from these two over here"... You already know that because you've been tracking it during the game).

My game group has also started playing with the 2-card variant where you always have two terrain cards available and can play either of them on your turn. I'm definitely against the variant (I'm a purist), but I play with it to make the rest of the group happy, and at the end of the day it doesn't change the game much at all.
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theory

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2012, 10:00:06 am »
0

It does somewhat alleviate the problem of starting with two of the same terrain card, which is often a crippling blow.

I suppose you can play this game by dealing everyone a hand of cards at the beginning, but I think that would make this game unacceptably AP.

The expansion suffers from one flaw, which is that its rules are not as clearly written as they could be (not at Dominion's level).  The terms aren't clearly defined enough ("move", "place", "build").
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DG

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2012, 07:24:51 am »
0

I had couple of plays at this at a con this weekend. Good game. It sits in sort of the same place as Carcassonne and Oregon : 30-45 minute tile placement game, easy learning, simple to play, good filler. It can be played very quickly with simple hut placements each turn and all the scoring at the end. On the other hand, slow play could dull the game since you can spend a lot of time thinking and inspecting if you really want to ( ... annoy your fellow players). Since all the scoring comes at the end you are playing a game long strategy rather than taking scoring opportunities seen each turn in Carcassonne.
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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2012, 11:33:51 am »
0

I had couple of plays at this at a con this weekend. Good game. It sits in sort of the same place as Carcassonne and Oregon : 30-45 minute tile placement game, easy learning, simple to play, good filler. It can be played very quickly with simple hut placements each turn and all the scoring at the end. On the other hand, slow play could dull the game since you can spend a lot of time thinking and inspecting if you really want to ( ... annoy your fellow players). Since all the scoring comes at the end you are playing a game long strategy rather than taking scoring opportunities seen each turn in Carcassonne.

I have to disagree with this comparison. I've played Carcassonne quite a bit and Kingdom Builder more than that and I feel that Carcassone's random element is far higher than Kingdom Builder. In Carcassonne there are turns when the first person to draw a tile like X will win the game because of the castle they get to complete. On the flip side its very rare for terrain card X to win a person the game especially with the actions available to manage luck in Kingdom Builder. I have never played Oregon.

With the expansion all the scoring is not at the end there is some mid game. And scoring really doesn't take that long once you've played a few games.
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theory

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2012, 12:53:10 pm »
0

I've been enjoying Kingdom Builder in general, but I keep wanting to make changes to it.

Yesterday I played Kingdom Builder with a 5-card hand.  It was superb.  But we chose the setup carefully: the "power setup" (place on grass, place on desert, move to water, place a 4th), plus Citizens/Merchants/X.  X could have been anything (we used Fishermen), but Citizens/Merchants are really key to the 5-card hand variant because it encourages a lot of conflict.
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Ozle

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2012, 02:04:03 pm »
+3

I've been enjoying Kingdom Builder in general, but I keep wanting to make changes to it.

Yesterday I played Kingdom Builder with a 5-card hand.  It was superb.  But we chose the setup carefully: the "power setup" (place on grass, place on desert, move to water, place a 4th), plus Citizens/Merchants/X.  X could have been anything (we used Fishermen), but Citizens/Merchants are really key to the 5-card hand variant because it encourages a lot of conflict.

kingdombuilderstrategy.com?
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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2012, 02:05:43 pm »
+2

A slew of new sites brought to you by theory!

kingdombuilderstrategy.com
gauntletoffoolsstrategy.com
nefariousstrategy.com
infiltrationstrategy.com
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theory

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2012, 03:53:21 pm »
+1

If and when Tom Lehmann gets rrenaud excited about Race for the Galaxy again, I think you will totally see the rise of rftgstrategy.com.

kingdombuilderstrategy.com is pretty easy I think:

1) Prioritize good powers (place a 4th > place on grass/desert > move to water > jump > the rest).

2) Limit terrain access.

3) When you do touch a new terrain, if it isn't size < 4, touch as many different kinds of that terrain as possible.

4) Have an overall map of your eventual placements in mind, especially if you have a goal like Merchants/Citizens.
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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2012, 04:01:23 pm »
0

If and when Tom Lehmann gets rrenaud excited about Race for the Galaxy again, I think you will totally see the rise of rftgstrategy.com.

kingdombuilderstrategy.com is pretty easy I think:

1) Prioritize good powers (place a 4th > place on grass/desert > move to water > jump > the rest).

2) Limit terrain access.

3) When you do touch a new terrain, if it isn't size < 4, touch as many different kinds of that terrain as possible.

4) Have an overall map of your eventual placements in mind, especially if you have a goal like Merchants/Citizens.

Off topic but I did just pick up RFTG the other day, is it worth picking any of the expansions up or should I wait for the new one (it's uncompatible with previous expansions)
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theory

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2012, 04:03:59 pm »
+1

Try playing it.  If you like it, I can't imagine playing the old RFTG without their expansions.

I do not know what the new RFTG will be like.
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Insomniac

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2012, 04:04:53 pm »
0

Try playing it.  If you like it, I can't imagine playing the old RFTG without their expansions.

I do not know what the new RFTG will be like.

Oh I have played it since picking it up and do like it, just didn't know how good/bad the expansions were and was slightly turned off by the obsolete remark. Thanks though sounds like its worth it
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theory

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2012, 04:06:55 pm »
+2

Brink of War has some detractors, and it is true that we stopped playing shortly after Brink of War came out (though that was also when we were getting into Isotropic, so, who knows).  TGS + RvI, though, unequivocally make RFTG a lot better, whereas BoW probably does but for a not-insubstantial-number it does not.
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Lekkit

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2012, 07:22:32 am »
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More cards = more diversity = more replayability. At least in my book.
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chwhite

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2012, 01:54:51 pm »
0

Brink of War has some detractors, and it is true that we stopped playing shortly after Brink of War came out (though that was also when we were getting into Isotropic, so, who knows).  TGS + RvI, though, unequivocally make RFTG a lot better, whereas BoW probably does but for a not-insubstantial-number it does not.

Prestige is somewhat tacked on and not necessarily balanced.  But it is fun, and there are several cards in BoW that fill important holes in the card set, such as the Mining Mole Uplifts and the other blue world 6-coster.  Yes, I am singling out the Mining Mole Uplifts.  It had always bothered me before there wasn't a brown Uplift world, but BoW gives you one!
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Grujah

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2012, 03:19:59 pm »
0

More cards = more diversity = more replayability. At least in my book.

FWIW, I only played base RTFG, and diversity and replayability are thing that I find lacking, as most of the games you are confined to one of the few strategies.
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Lekkit

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Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2012, 03:22:24 pm »
0

I think I managed to play something like 10 games before I wanted expansions. I think that's pretty fair for a game, though. But just as with Dominion, the more expansions you get the more replay value you get as welll.
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