Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]  All

Author Topic: WW Annotated Game #1  (Read 3757 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3353
    • View Profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2012, 04:49:25 pm »
+2

One of these days I'll work on getting my level up so i can actually play against one of these decent players instead of missing out because of the +/- 45 skill level setting!
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2012, 05:21:15 pm »
0

If you wanted a sure fire and not too limiting way to make sure you don't upset people, only annotate games you lose.


Not true! I have definitely had games I won where I played very poorly, and had players be very upset at me for gg-ing them when they won, because they had played poorly.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2012, 05:27:04 pm »
0

So... this sort of spins out of control.

There's no need to host anything yourself, or even try to anonymize this game if you could without hosting anything. My name being in there is not the problem. If you really want to annotate it... go right ahead. The worst that could happen now is that you annotate a rather boring game. One player plays well and the other rather stupid, probably worse then the Goko bots would play it. He loses badly, as he should. End of story.
This is a bit of a drama queen play. I mean, come on dude.

Quote
The psychology of this discussion is already far more interesting then the game itself. I chat to you that I played this game horribly,
Honestly, I don't remember that. I don't even know if I read the chat that game. At some point yesterday, I remember someone saying that they had messed the game up, or basically played the wrong strategy, but by no means does this make a game unfit to analyze. The idea hadn't even crossed my mind - people have done it to me plenty of times. Sure, I don't like that I played bad, but I'm not at all upset with them. And if all you're worried about is a boring annotated game, I'm definitely okay with that. But I also don't understand why you had such a cow over it.

() | (_) ^/

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 624
  • Respect: +514
    • View Profile
    • BGG profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 08:56:44 am »
+5

I admit my main thought is "this community was actually nicer without WW".

Boo.  I think that is too far.  I'm not saying that your "main thought" is too far (as you have every right to think it), but sharing it doesn't really help the discussion or anyone participating in it, and is pretty disrespectful.  To say that is basically to say that this site is better off without one of its most contributing members.  I'm no fanboy of WW, but I'm not going to want to do anything that might make someone feel excluded from this community (except if they are permatrolls).  If you're making the case that WW is a permatroll, well, we have joke threads for stuff like that.

Even if one is convinced that WW is being disrespectful, it doesn't give anyone the right to be disrespectful back.  Period.

I say this, of course, trying to be totally respectful to you (but not to your post).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 09:24:50 am by () | (_) ^/ »
Logged

() | (_) ^/

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 624
  • Respect: +514
    • View Profile
    • BGG profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2012, 09:07:33 am »
0

...

Quote
The psychology of this discussion is already far more interesting then the game itself. I chat to you that I played this game horribly,
Honestly, I don't remember that. I don't even know if I read the chat that game. At some point yesterday, I remember someone saying that they had messed the game up, or basically played the wrong strategy, but by no means does this make a game unfit to analyze. The idea hadn't even crossed my mind - people have done it to me plenty of times. Sure, I don't like that I played bad, but I'm not at all upset with them. And if all you're worried about is a boring annotated game, I'm definitely okay with that. But I also don't understand why you had such a cow over it.

I don't know, WW -- you're saying you want to annotate a game, which is to say "pour over the details of a game for the purpose of analysis."  However, you have lost one of the details of this game -- the interaction with your opponent.  You're saying you can't/don't remember the particular interactions over chat with Stef.

If you were thinking about annotating the game while it was taking place, why did you not pay attention to this particular component?  Obviously, it's not in the Dominion rules... but it is still a part of playing a game with another person.

Am I saying every annotated game should include analysis of chatboxes?  Of course not.  I'm just saying that opponent interaction (or legitimate lack thereof) IS a part of the game.  If any opponent interaction of note occurs, it should be considered in your assessment of the game, right?  The problem here seems to be that Stef is saying that there was some interaction of note, whereas you don't remember any such thing, or at least from this game in particular.

Anyhoo, I can see both sides here.  It's frustrating for me, and I'm just a spectator -- I can only imagine that it would be frustrating for both of you!
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9156
    • View Profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2012, 04:52:46 pm »
0

Why not play the same set against another high level player, then annotate that instead?  Same interesting set, nobody has to be upset by poor play.  Unless the new player plays poorly as well, in which case, gg.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7092
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9371
    • View Profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2012, 04:59:23 pm »
+2

I admit my main thought is "this community was actually nicer without WW".

That... may be the weirdest thing I've heard about this community lately.  Like, how does that even work?
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

heron

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1025
  • Shuffle iT Username: heron
  • Respect: +1148
    • View Profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2012, 05:41:03 pm »
0

I admit my main thought is "this community was actually nicer without WW".

That... may be the weirdest thing I've heard about this community lately.  Like, how does that even work?
If I understand the tone of Kirian's post correctly, I agree. I mean, come on people, let's be friendly here.
Anyway, I think that eHalcyon's suggestion is a good one, although I don't think it would be disastrous if WW annotated the game he already played. The chat box thing, well, let's just say I have no opinion, as I am known to reply to chats 5 minutes after they were chatted.

If it would truly make a better annotation, I would go for eHalcyon's suggestion, but I'm pretty sure -Stef- playing terribly would still crush me.
Logged

Dsell

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1289
  • He/Him
  • Respect: +920
    • View Profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2012, 06:34:45 pm »
0

Before the annotation is written up, WW and -Stef- could replay the exact same set and then we'd have both games to analyze but one to (probably) draw better play data from.

This might be a bit of a contrived solution and there's probably no problem with the original plan of just posting it, but if we really want to see two great players play at their best, this might be a good way to achieve that.
Logged
"Quiet you, you'll lynch Dsell when I'm good and ready" - Insomniac


Winner of Forum Survivor Season 2!

sparky5856

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 111
  • Respect: +131
    • View Profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2012, 08:51:32 pm »
0

Ideally you would immediately ask your opponent if it's OK for you to write up the game.  If they really don't want to, then erase their name from the log or whatever, or propose the set to them again.  But sometimes you don't think to write it up until afterwards, and then you don't necessarily have a chance to talk about it with the opponent.

I mean, at least this. If I were to do an annotated game, I would not even ask but collaborate with the other player to hear their thoughts on the kingdom and on their play, so that the annotated game isn't all one-sided. If they say no, then drop the game! There are plenty of great kingdoms out there. We shouldn't cause a fuss over just one of them.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2012, 10:36:30 pm »
+8

You know, dealing with all this kerfuffle (I thought the word was 'kerfluffle', but little red wiggly line tells me otherwise), and because I have had some life events be time-draining on me here recently (more on that later perhaps), I won't go into annotating. It's just better this way. I do still think it's an unreasonable request to make, but on the other hand (as I've said before, a la with the video thing), it just doesn't mean that much to me. It's not worth it.

But okay, I don't want to leave you guys TOTALLY hanging (and since I won't be able to annotate the next one until probably next Sunday), I will give you my impressions on the set.

There is workshop/gardens. But I think this will lose, in general, to tournament (never gonna be blocked) with bazaar and/or forge at the right moment, probably bazaar at the right moment and young witch at some point. However, *that* strategy is extremely susceptible to young witch... which in turn will not do so well against workshop/gardens. But I think that some hybrid between Young Witch/Secret Chamber (bane!) and workshop/gardens is best. I also ended up grabbing some worker's villages to supplement, which was nice for all the terminals and the extra buys. I think the other strong options here, to go against, are a more straight workshop/gardens (but you can only do this if you are sure they are not going for the province-colony-tournament kind of thing), in which case you REALLY need to win that gardens split, probably rather definitively, as you have no other recourse, or something with young witches and banes that can cobble its way up to provinces, but if you go THAT route, you really need to not contest gardens, until late anyway, where you have a province or preferably two on them.

I also want to note that I think I have worked out a way of making these things anonymous. And of course I would love to have opponents' feedback on these, but direct collaboration is just not feasible.

Anyway, last but certainly not least, I want to apologize to Stef for any unpleasantness I have caused him. It was not my intention.

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1568
  • Respect: +4379
    • View Profile
Re: WW Annotated Game #1
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2012, 12:11:20 pm »
+2

OK, apologies accepted. Thanks for resolving it this way.
If you feel like it you could still just post the log to show how you played it.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!
Pages: 1 [2]  All
 

Page created in 0.086 seconds with 22 queries.