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Author Topic: Humiliation  (Read 4992 times)

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Robz888

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Humiliation
« on: December 07, 2012, 10:46:01 pm »
+2

Please just explain to me why I lost: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-194414-67595e0d.html

For now, I'll be crying in the corner of the room.
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yuma

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 11:00:54 pm »
+4

He bought a village turn 1, that is why.
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Galzria

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 11:08:17 pm »
0

Was it me? Was it me?

Oh.  :( Wasn't me.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

thirtyseven

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 11:12:53 pm »
+3

Because of his username.
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Galzria

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 11:13:21 pm »
+2

Your terminals collided turn 6, costing you an attack play.

He also buys his Steward turn 5, and begins trashing on turn 7, whereas you don't purchase your first Steward until turn 13. He was able to clear out the curses as quickly as you handed them out.

Plus, you know. That awesome Village opening of his.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 11:14:30 pm by Galzria »
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Titandrake

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 12:17:49 am »
+2

Now that I think about it, a Village opening isn't that bad here. You want Militia early to deny $5, you want Steward early to deal with potential curses, and opening Militia/Steward is pretty bad. Because if you keep trashing with Steward, you're just asking for terminal collisions early on.

I'm still not sold on it, but I can see why Village/Militia was chosen.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 12:19:17 am by Titandrake »
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ycz6

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 04:43:27 am »
+3

I'm also not convinced, because I'm pretty sure Militia/Steward is way better than Militia/Village here. Militia/Village is only better if they clash, and the difference is a single card; Militia/Steward is amazing if you get them split on Turns 3/4, and if they clash you might get Militiaed anyway.
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qmech

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 06:52:05 am »
0

Your opponent had 3 Wharves in play on the last turn.  Perhaps you should have bought a Duchy?  Your deck is much worse than your opponent's, so you aren't going to win the long game, but you might be able to snatch the 3-pile from them.
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sparky5856

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 03:18:27 pm »
0

I think it was the trashing that did it. I would have incorporated at least one Steward in my engine very early on, especially with curses floating around.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 06:55:57 pm »
0

I think Militia/Steward is not that bad, but Steward Silver is probably better. It's going to be an engine game, and there is a strong trasher, so why not open with it?
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Galzria

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 07:01:03 pm »
0

I think Militia/Steward is not that bad, but Steward Silver is probably better. It's going to be an engine game, and there is a strong trasher, so why not open with it?

The problem with opening with it against Militia is that if/when your opponent Militias you, you're forced to choose between doing absolutely nothing and discarding 2/trashing 2, or waiting until next cycle to trash.

I think the correct opening is going to be Militia/Silver, and grab, with the goal of Witch/Steward turns 3/4 if possible, and then mixing in the villages and wharves from there based on what your hand let's you do.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

dondon151

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 07:05:22 pm »
+2

I don't know, I think that if you want to trash, you want to start early. Your Steward hands are bound to be nearly useless anyway unless you draw Silver/Copper for a Village, so even if you get hit by Militia and are forced to play either Militia or Steward, then play Steward for the tighter deck.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 07:15:05 pm »
+4

The problem with opening with it against Militia is that if/when your opponent Militias you, you're forced to choose between doing absolutely nothing and discarding 2/trashing 2, or waiting until next cycle to trash.
Getting hit by Militia on a Steward turn is actually better than getting hit by Militia on a turn where you intend to buy something expensive, so actually opening Steward is better against Militia.
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Kirian

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 02:14:15 am »
+5

No Scout on the board.  You were doomed form the start.
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jupiter

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2012, 08:58:24 pm »
+2

You lost because you scored less points than lucky.one. Pretty simple.

Also, it was probably because of his Wharf the first reshuffle. Early Wharfs, like shown here can decide the game.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2012, 10:03:03 pm »
+2

Wow... that was hard to read. Early on it kept looking like you made better decisions than him, but he kept getting somewhere. I think your turn 13 really did you in... it doesn't show what you drew from your Wharfs, but for a turn where you started with 9 cards in hand, it had to have been a really unlucky hand to have done so little with it. Also, he seemed to always draw his Steward and Curse together immediately after you Curse him each time.
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zahlman

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 12:20:51 am »
+2

No Scout on the board.  You were doomed form the start.

Seriously, it took us this long to make the joke?
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Robz888

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2012, 12:24:31 am »
+1

Wow... that was hard to read. Early on it kept looking like you made better decisions than him, but he kept getting somewhere. I think your turn 13 really did you in... it doesn't show what you drew from your Wharfs, but for a turn where you started with 9 cards in hand, it had to have been a really unlucky hand to have done so little with it. Also, he seemed to always draw his Steward and Curse together immediately after you Curse him each time.

By turn 13 I'm just losing my mind that my Witch, which I got so much earlier than him, is not damaging him remotely in the slightest.

I do think an opening that incorporates Steward is probably better here than one that incorporates Militia, so I don't think I had the perfect opening. I should probably go Steward/Militia or Steward/Silver.

... but he didn't open Steward either. He opened Village/Militia! That's GOT to be even worse. And it killed me.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2012, 01:06:15 am »
0

... but he didn't open Steward either. He opened Village/Militia! That's GOT to be even worse. And it killed me.
Well clearly he got some luck in the beginning, and that's all it takes to win a Wharf game. They spiral out of control fast. He got 2 Wharves, a trasher, and 2 Villages before you got to play your Witch. So at that point, he can kill Curses as fast as you can hand them out.
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cherdano

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2012, 06:47:31 am »
0

Maybe I am out there, but I think all the early comments are missing the point.

I think lucky one is right that you should build a wharf semi-engine here first, and then pick up a steward for trashing and a witch later. Wharves don't mind coppers, so you only really want the trasher for estates and curses. And with your engine going, you can trash those pretty quickly. Similarly, I think you have a good chance of catching up on the curses race if you buy the witch a few turns later, but then you can play it almost every turn.

I think opening militia/steward is pretty bad here (and I am a big fan of steward openings). You really want to pick up that wharf (or witch if you disagree with my opinion above) on turn 3/4, and then you have three terminals with at most one village - and you hoped to trash some cards too! Opponent's militia also makes the early steward much less effective. If you want top open steward at all, I think it should be steward/silver.

I am really curious what others think.

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dondon151

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 06:57:55 am »
0

You'd be hard-pressed to get an engine going at all, much less find the cards that you want to trash, if you skip the trashing first and let your opponent inundate you with Curses.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 02:03:02 pm »
0

Wow... that was hard to read. Early on it kept looking like you made better decisions than him, but he kept getting somewhere. I think your turn 13 really did you in... it doesn't show what you drew from your Wharfs, but for a turn where you started with 9 cards in hand, it had to have been a really unlucky hand to have done so little with it. Also, he seemed to always draw his Steward and Curse together immediately after you Curse him each time.

By turn 13 I'm just losing my mind that my Witch, which I got so much earlier than him, is not damaging him remotely in the slightest.

I do think an opening that incorporates Steward is probably better here than one that incorporates Militia, so I don't think I had the perfect opening. I should probably go Steward/Militia or Steward/Silver.

... but he didn't open Steward either. He opened Village/Militia! That's GOT to be even worse. And it killed me.

Wish I'd saved the log (Darn you, CouncilRoom!), but I lost a game a few weeks ago against someone who opened Potion on a board where Golem was the only Potion-cost, then proceeded to buy 2 Scouts, and repeatedly Golem'd into the 2 Scouts. With no Action-Victory on the board. It was a terrible, terrible strategy. But luck is indeed a big part of the game.
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Axxle

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2012, 02:34:00 pm »
0

Wow... that was hard to read. Early on it kept looking like you made better decisions than him, but he kept getting somewhere. I think your turn 13 really did you in... it doesn't show what you drew from your Wharfs, but for a turn where you started with 9 cards in hand, it had to have been a really unlucky hand to have done so little with it. Also, he seemed to always draw his Steward and Curse together immediately after you Curse him each time.

By turn 13 I'm just losing my mind that my Witch, which I got so much earlier than him, is not damaging him remotely in the slightest.

I do think an opening that incorporates Steward is probably better here than one that incorporates Militia, so I don't think I had the perfect opening. I should probably go Steward/Militia or Steward/Silver.

... but he didn't open Steward either. He opened Village/Militia! That's GOT to be even worse. And it killed me.

Wish I'd saved the log (Darn you, CouncilRoom!), but I lost a game a few weeks ago against someone who opened Potion on a board where Golem was the only Potion-cost, then proceeded to buy 2 Scouts, and repeatedly Golem'd into the 2 Scouts. With no Action-Victory on the board. It was a terrible, terrible strategy. But luck is indeed a big part of the game.
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cherdano

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2012, 05:43:01 pm »
0

You'd be hard-pressed to get an engine going at all, much less find the cards that you want to trash, if you skip the trashing first and let your opponent inundate you with Curses.
Maybe what I wrote sounded as if I waited until turn 10 to pick up a steward. Say I start with miltia/village at turn 1/2, a wharf and another village at turn 3/4, and then a steward around turn 5 or 6. I would argue that my draw from wharves will more than make up for the delay in trashing.
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dondon151

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Re: Humiliation
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2012, 06:20:52 pm »
0

Well, that is highly dependent on shuffle luck. If your Wharf, Steward, or Militia collide without a Village to play them, what do you play?
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