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Author Topic: Interview with Donald X.  (Read 2127562 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3575 on: January 11, 2017, 02:20:34 pm »
+5

Why are Victory cards the only ones that scale by player number?
The pile sizes are different to save on cards. Originally there were 12 cards in every pile. There was some worry that people wouldn't buy a game that was "just cards" for what 500 cards would cost. RGG tried it anyway and that all worked out. But part of having it be "just" 500 cards was shaving those 2 cards off of those 24 piles. Province wanted to stay with 12 because it tended to determine the game length (and arguably it should go to 16 with 4 players). Then I decided that other VP piles would match, because somehow you are going for a something besides Provinces.

Setting aside some copies of Lab in 2-player games seems like extra set-up for nothing. I also felt like it was neat that in 2-player games you could get more copies of cards (it's neat when you normally play 3-4 anyway).
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3576 on: January 11, 2017, 02:41:02 pm »
+3

-What's the current thing with commas? Spice merchant doesn't have one before the "to", but other cards do. Baron doesn't have a comma before "for" but Mill does.
The current thing is to consider every card separately, and do what I like best there, tempered by whatever arguments LastFootnote makes, and randomized by not necessarily considering which cards are matching which other ones. Normally, I think "do X to do Y" doesn't need a comma; for Mill, I worried that people would misinterpret it without that comma (maybe you get $2 per card).

-Should numbers be spelled out? I see two is written out in develop, but it's "4" and "5" on Minion.
At some point numbers tended to be written as numerals in order to make card wordings shorter. I haven't necessarily been consistent there.

-Did the coin icons change? It used to be the number was smaller but in the hinterlands cards it seems to be the same size as the cost. Compare Minion and Haggler.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but the coins did change.

It used to be that the coins were a text number on a blank coin image. For Empires, they finally made a set of images so that the number was on the coin. This was to avoid endlessly saying "the 4 on this card's cost is off-center" (in previous years this was avoided by having numbers be off-center sometimes).

Also for Hinterlands the font on the numbers is different; note the $4 on Fool's Gold. The small coins now have the same font used on larger coins.

-Why do Treasures have a "When you play this". In other words, why was it necessary?
It seemed important back when to make it clear when the amount locked in, on treasures worth varying amounts. If you play two Banks, the second one is worth more. For other cards, it seemed both good to work the same way and thus be phrased the same way, and like it was a potential source of confusion if they didn't spell it out.

These days it feels like they don't need it. The variable amount ones could use +$ rather than "worth." And it would be great to drop it - it's so much text on those cards. But I didn't think of changing it at the perfect time and so everything still has it.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3577 on: January 11, 2017, 02:41:23 pm »
+2

How long does it take to play test a promo card? What does the process look like?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3578 on: January 11, 2017, 03:06:46 pm »
+6

How long does it take to play test a promo card? What does the process look like?
Well there are three ways it has played out.

Black Market, Envoy, Walled Village, and Stash were all in sets, dropped for not being good enough (or in Black Market's case, too wonky), then put out as promos. So they got less testing than normal cards - they got some of that testing, then weren't in the set anymore, and they got no extra testing when chosen to be promos.

Governor and Summon were requested while I was working on sets, but with enough time (before the promo was needed) that they didn't have to be existing cards (and Governor was made to commemorate Puerto Rico). They just got thrown into games with whatever else that was being tested, for a period of time that I did not pay attention to, and eventually seemed done.

Prince and Sauna/Avanto were requested while nothing else was happening with Dominion. There were a few months there where I played some Dominion on my game nights and would include the card.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3579 on: January 11, 2017, 03:41:40 pm »
0

How is envoy not 'good' enough? It's a pretty strong card, no?
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werothegreat

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3580 on: January 11, 2017, 03:43:04 pm »
+2

How is envoy not 'good' enough? It's a pretty strong card, no?

It was also too similar to Smithy.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3581 on: January 11, 2017, 04:00:35 pm »
0

How long does it take to play test a promo card? What does the process look like?
Prince and Sauna/Avanto were requested while nothing else was happening with Dominion. There were a few months there where I played some Dominion on my game nights and would include the card.

If you had to put a number on it, how many games would you have played with those 2 promos before releasing them?

Have there been any cards you playtested during "nothing else happening" periods that turned out to be busts? (eg outtakes not from specific sets?)
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3582 on: January 11, 2017, 04:04:55 pm »
+3

How is envoy not 'good' enough? It's a pretty strong card, no?

It was also too similar to Smithy.
Correct. It seemed like an okay idea, but not novel enough for the first expansion. Then I finally made a better-to-have-printed version with Advisor.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3583 on: January 11, 2017, 04:16:17 pm »
+5

If you had to put a number on it, how many games would you have played with those 2 promos before releasing them?
Don't you mean, if I had to answer the question about if I had to put a number on it? Because I don't.

Have there been any cards you playtested during "nothing else happening" periods that turned out to be busts? (eg outtakes not from specific sets?)
At the very beginning there were no expansions, so any outtakes were not from specific sets. And after RGG had the game but before it came out, I made a batch of cards that weren't for specific sets, then slotted some in while some died. Examples of both are shown in the outtakes article. For Sauna, there were other ideas that didn't end up being the promo but might be good enough for someday.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3584 on: January 11, 2017, 04:34:30 pm »
+1

If you had to put a number on it, how many games would you have played with those 2 promos before releasing them?
Don't you mean, if I had to answer the question about if I had to put a number on it? Because I don't.

You don't have to answer any question and you're doing a great service by answering as many questions as you have.

I'm assuming that it's a low number (10 games?) which is exciting as it would be easy to play test cards to at least the same standard in an afternoon of Dominion Online/Isotropic and that's before anything rigorous like simulators come into the picture. Looking forward to a future of many more high quality cards.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3585 on: January 11, 2017, 04:38:25 pm »
+1

If you had to put a number on it, how many games would you have played with those 2 promos before releasing them?
Don't you mean, if I had to answer the question about if I had to put a number on it? Because I don't.

You don't have to answer any question and you're doing a great service by answering as many questions as you have.

I'm assuming that it's a low number (10 games?) which is exciting as it would be easy to play test cards to at least the same standard in an afternoon of Dominion Online/Isotropic and that's before anything rigorous like simulators come into the picture. Looking forward to a future of many more high quality cards.

Summon was on isotropic, and for that reason alone it got way more than 10 games.

I'm sure I had more than 10 real-life test games with Summon, but not necessarily all with the final, published version. My original version was like, cost $2, you may buy an Action card, set it aside, and play it at the start of your next turn. More like Travelling Fair than Ball.

So with my games and Donald's games and other playtesters' games, I think Summon got quite a bit more than 10 IRL games before being finalized. Though again, not necessarily all with the final version.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3586 on: January 11, 2017, 04:51:01 pm »
+5

You don't have to answer any question and you're doing a great service by answering as many questions as you have.
Thank you, thank you.

I'm assuming that it's a low number (10 games?) which is exciting as it would be easy to play test cards to at least the same standard in an afternoon of Dominion Online/Isotropic and that's before anything rigorous like simulators come into the picture. Looking forward to a future of many more high quality cards.
It's just too much work to estimate. I don't want to go digging through the reports thread for the games with it. I'm not the only playtester; multiple groups got a chance with Summon, and LF was also playtesting Prince. I wouldn't assume it was low; for Prince in particular, it was like, what is there to do, I guess I could playtest Prince some more. And as LF notes, Summon was on isotropic.

The cards also change as they go; Prince for example changed a bunch of times. So a lot of the testing was not the final version. Some cards require more testing than others, and for different reasons. Sometimes the wording has issues; sometimes the card is too weak or too dull or too strong, and those take varying amounts of work to attack.
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MattLee

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3587 on: January 12, 2017, 12:48:29 am »
0

You've said Intrigue was originally going to have several one shot cards but too many people didn't like them. Where they going to be one shots like Feast or sudo one shots like Mining Village?

Thanks for making such an awesome game!  :D
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3588 on: January 12, 2017, 09:57:53 am »
+2

You've said Intrigue was originally going to have several one shot cards but too many people didn't like them. Where they going to be one shots like Feast or sudo one shots like Mining Village?

Thanks for making such an awesome game!  :D
I'm there for you!

Mostly like Feast. A couple cards did get in the semi-one-shot thing; Minion once had a 3rd option that traded it for 2 Estates, and there was an Explorer that you lost if your top card was Silver. But mostly one-shots. You can see examples in the outtakes article, the Early Days and Intrigue sections: https://dominionstrategy.com/2013/06/24/dominion-outtakes/

One-shots that at one point or another were in Intrigue included:
- Feast
- a trashing attack
- a Cursing attack, in various forms: give them Curse and Confusion; +2 Cards and Curse them; +$2 and Curse them
- +3 Cards +2 Actions, then Madman (as a buyable card)
- a thing that looked through your deck and played all the Attacks
- +$1 per card played that turn
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3589 on: January 12, 2017, 10:10:21 am »
+3

- a thing that looked through your deck and played all the Attacks

Oh god...
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silby

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3590 on: January 12, 2017, 01:11:46 pm »
+1

Knowing very well your position on talking about stuff that a publisher would want to talk about before they get a chance to talk about it, I'm going to ask this in a way that's hopefully possible and interesting to answer:

Are you playing new games of yours lately with your group? Or old games of yours that might be new to us someday? Is there stuff you're excited about on your table?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3591 on: January 12, 2017, 04:11:10 pm »
+5

Knowing very well your position on talking about stuff that a publisher would want to talk about before they get a chance to talk about it, I'm going to ask this in a way that's hopefully possible and interesting to answer:

Are you playing new games of yours lately with your group? Or old games of yours that might be new to us someday? Is there stuff you're excited about on your table?
Whether or not I answer that question conveys information I don't wish to convey. So, I can't ever answer that question.
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silby

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3592 on: January 12, 2017, 04:39:56 pm »
0

Aww okay.

Whose creative output do you wait on tenterhooks for news of?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3593 on: January 12, 2017, 05:23:38 pm »
+8

Whose creative output do you wait on tenterhooks for news of?
In the past I have eagerly awaited the next book or movie or video game from various people; these days almost everything I'm looking forward to is music. It's not that music has gained ground, just that everything else has lost ground.

The songwriter I most look forward to new things from currently is someone who doesn't even have an album to her name: Rebecca Sugar. She's written songs for Adventure Time and her show Steven Universe. Among albums to some degree announced for 2017, I'm most looking forward to the Sparks album. Among things set for Q1, the Magnetic Fields album; among things set for this month, well there's really just the Foxygen album.

For non-music things, I'm looking forward to the new Richard Garfield game Bunny Kingdom. It was supposed to come out at Essen but was pushed back. I'm looking forward to the new Nintendo, at least assuming it launches with something I want.
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werothegreat

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3594 on: January 12, 2017, 06:47:19 pm »
0

The songwriter I most look forward to new things from currently is someone who doesn't even have an album to her name: Rebecca Sugar. She's written songs for Adventure Time and her show Steven Universe.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3595 on: January 13, 2017, 04:42:23 am »
0

What are your thoughts on the Standard Bannings in Magic.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3596 on: January 13, 2017, 11:04:37 am »
+1

What are your thoughts on the Standard Bannings in Magic.
These days I only play magic on Magic Duels. So my perspective is warped by that.

Smuggler's Copter: I hate this card. And their excuses for it are poor. When they do a block with an artifact theme, of course they will push some artifacts. That doesn't mean they have to make pushed artifacts that go in every deck though, and it's not the case that color is the only fix. When there's e.g. a powerful Millstone, it doesn't go in every deck; you only play it in milling decks. The pushed artifacts should be narrow, like Millstone, and then you will not have this situation where oops every deck has Smuggler's Copters. Smuggler's Copter could have easily had a creature type limitation on crewing it, or whatever other thing making it narrower, and then it would be a strong card in that deck and not everywhere. Anyway if something deserved to be banned it was this. I am just sad the ban is unlikely to apply to Duels.

Emrakul: This isn't on Duels so I don't have any experience with it. Apparently it was strong? It looks funny banning a 13-mana card, but I can believe it was over-the-top.

Reflector Mage: This card is strong but uh. Make a list of all the cards ever banned in Standard. Time Spiral, Memory Jar, Skullclamp, Tolarian Academy, Arcbound Ravager, etc.... Reflector Mage. It's a Man-o'-war with a cute bonus? I mean it's strong. But uh, it really makes it look like, okay now they are going to constantly be banning cards from Standard. There's always going to be something as good as Reflector Mage. And they never banned Collected Company. So well uh how does that sound? It's hard to say, not being affected myself. Even when the card they ban isn't the mythic rare, if they kill a deck, the mythic rare goes with it. So it will make investing in a deck look worse to some people. But at the same time, if the tournament format is more fun, more people are buying cards. So maybe it works out for them. I haven't played serious constructed since the 90s, and could just afford all the cards. I guess one thing is, maybe they will push a cheap deck, a classic white weenie or something, to try to get more people playing.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/brief-history-standard-banned-list-2015-07-13
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Rococo

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3597 on: January 15, 2017, 10:04:10 am »
0

A few of your cards remind me of Magic cards (Courtyard and Brainstorm for example). Are any of your Dominion cards inspired by Magic cards or are these just coincidences?

I'm surprised there has never been a Fact or Fiction like card, would that kind of thing just slow the game down too much?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 10:06:56 am by Rococo »
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3598 on: January 15, 2017, 11:58:25 am »
+4

A few of your cards remind me of Magic cards (Courtyard and Brainstorm for example). Are any of your Dominion cards inspired by Magic cards or are these just coincidences?
You managed to cite one of the few Dominion cards I didn't design - Courtyard was Sir Bailey's. I did play around with related things.

I don't think there are any. Me being a game designer was significantly inspired by Magic. In Dominion each player has their own deck; I don't know if I would have thought of that without Magic. And I got the idea for having types on cards from Magic, though for all I know other games did it earlier.

But there is not much overlap between what cards can do in the two games. The one basic thing is draw cards, but the relative value of cards is much different. And of course Courtyard is something you draw and play each pass through your deck, while Brainstorm is something you only draw once if you draw it at all; they are not just the same. Dominion's cards are more like tableau cards than cards in a Magic deck. And drawing cards, I bet Wiz-War had that.

I like to think a little has gone the other way, though for all I know nothing has. Of course there are endless games that just copy Dominion in its entirety, I am not lacking there.

I'm surprised there has never been a Fact or Fiction like card, would that kind of thing just slow the game down too much?
I haven't tested one, but it does sound too slow. You could do it as a one-time thing like Pillage or Mountain Pass.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #3599 on: January 15, 2017, 02:20:45 pm »
0

So Donald, how's that secret dominion expansion you're working on coming along?
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