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Author Topic: Interview with Donald X.  (Read 2127508 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1375 on: May 22, 2014, 05:13:34 pm »
+4

New question: Do you like Trains, or are you the worst person ever?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1376 on: May 22, 2014, 05:18:42 pm »
+14

New question: Why aren't my posts showing up correctly?
It could be malware you got from memegenerator. Try clearing your cookies.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1377 on: May 22, 2014, 05:20:42 pm »
+13

New question: Why aren't my posts showing up correctly?
It could be malware you got from memegenerator. Try clearing your cookies.

I've spent far too long clicking on my cookies to earn more; I'm not going to go clear them now!
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ashersky

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1378 on: May 22, 2014, 05:29:42 pm »
+9

New question: Do you like Trains, or are you the worst person ever?

I really don't see Ticket to Ride as a a Dominion clone.
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SCSN

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1379 on: May 22, 2014, 05:30:02 pm »
+3

What sort of encouragement would it take to get you to mercilessly hate on Trains and its ilk for a brief moment? Or do you actually enjoy them/see unique value in them?
What I always say is, it's great that people got to make Dominion-inspired games, and sad what they chose to do with the privilege. I have zero respect for the Dominion clones, and obv. you can actually make a new game instead, as A Few Acres of Snow and Eminent Domain demonstrate.

I'm not losing any sleep over it though, and it's not great for me to bash them, it just makes me sound like the worst person ever. I will have to count on you guys to bash them for me.

You just gotta appreciate the rockstar-life: all the women want you, all the game designers want to be you!
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SCSN

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1380 on: May 22, 2014, 05:32:52 pm »
+4

New question: Do you like Trains, or are you the worst person ever?

I really don't see Ticket to Ride as a a Dominion clone.

Try playing more Dominion, and pretty soon everything looks like a Dominion clone.
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Titandrake

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1381 on: May 22, 2014, 05:46:40 pm »
0

New question: Do you like Trains, or are you the worst person ever?

I really don't see Ticket to Ride as a a Dominion clone.

Try playing more Dominion, and pretty soon everything looks like a Dominion clone.

Settlers is such a Dominion clone, the only difference is that some cards you buy have physical pieces, and you only reshuffle some cards back into your deck based on a random dice roll, and everyone has Masquerade but all passes must be consensual.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1382 on: May 22, 2014, 05:58:29 pm »
0

New question: Do you like Trains, or are you the worst person ever?

I really don't see Ticket to Ride as a a Dominion clone.

Just in case you aren't joking, there is actually a deck-building game called Trains.  It's got some route building stuff in it too.  I don't know much else about it.
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market squire

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1383 on: May 23, 2014, 11:13:02 am »
+1

It would be nice if one-shots and Throne Rooms had types that cards could refer to. I made duration cards and Scheme and Band of Misfits anyway though. I think that's as close as it gets.
I don't get that. You mean a type like "Action/One-shot" or "Action/Throne"? How would that simplify the mechanics of Duration/ Scheme/ BoM? Would these card types open further design space?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1384 on: May 23, 2014, 04:18:02 pm »
+3

It would be nice if one-shots and Throne Rooms had types that cards could refer to. I made duration cards and Scheme and Band of Misfits anyway though. I think that's as close as it gets.
I don't get that. You mean a type like "Action/One-shot" or "Action/Throne"? How would that simplify the mechanics of Duration/ Scheme/ BoM? Would these card types open further design space?
Like Action - Event for one-shots and uh something else flavorful for Throne, Golem, etc. As I noted, it didn't stop me from doing the things I wanted it for; maybe it slightly opens up design space, or maybe I could always work around it, and it just means some wordings would be wonkier.

It would have been simpler for Band of Misfits to play the card, rather than changing into the card. This was problematic with one-shots, duration cards, and throne rooms used on duration cards - and durations have a type to refer to (so it could conceivably say non-duration), but one-shots and thrones don't.

Scheme has an issue with the same set of cards. Scheme has this wonky wording that has you choose a card at the start of clean-up and then looks for you discarding that card from play - which tells us that it wasn't a one-shot or duration card that was sticking around or throne on a sticking-around duration card. There were a bunch of wordings of Scheme before I found that one. For example "When you discard this from play, you may put another Action card you have in play on top of your deck." Simpler, doesn't work with those three cases (incidentally doesn't let you Scheme the Scheme and doesn't double with Thrones, both of which went back and forth as I tried different wordings).

There are other issues. Doubling a doubler is often problematic in games (in this case, King's Court a King's Court). You can just not allow it with a type. I don't know if I would have (who doesn't like King's Courting a King's Court) but it wasn't an option. Duration cards require tracking when Throned, so there's a rule that Thrones stay out, which is kind of wonky, and in fact I reversed a ruling on King's Court / King's Court / duration. You could avoid the issue by saying non-duration on Throne, but I couldn't because Throne came first (and you could avoid it with non-throne on thrones). In the Seaside rulebook it refers to something like "actions that play/modify" actions, which confuses people. A type would clear that up.

Again this is all hypothetical; I don't know what the wordings would have been if I'd had more options (i.e. maybe they would be the same as they ended up), and in the end I did the cards I wanted anyway.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1385 on: May 23, 2014, 04:29:57 pm »
0

It would have been simpler for Band of Misfits to play the card, rather than changing into the card.

In general, it would be nice if there were a distinction between putting an Action card into play and following the instructions on it. As it is, they're both "play". In the outtakes, it looked like you had the keyword "do" for when you just meant follow the instructions on the card. Why did that go away?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1386 on: May 23, 2014, 04:33:47 pm »
0

In general, it would be nice if there were a distinction between putting an Action card into play and following the instructions on it. As it is, they're both "play". In the outtakes, it looked like you had the keyword "do" for when you just meant follow the instructions on the card. Why did that go away?
I looked for a "do," and the first one I found meant "play," so there you go, it may never have been different.

I could say "follow the instructions" though, or, as one version of Band of Misfits tried, "play it without putting it into play." It's not like it comes up so much that it needs terminology you have to look up.
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1387 on: May 23, 2014, 06:25:04 pm »
+1

I'm not losing any sleep over it though, and it's not great for me to bash them, it just makes me sound like the worst person ever. I will have to count on you guys to bash them for me.

Props for giving an honest answer despite this. It's a neat perspective, thanks.
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soulnet

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1388 on: May 23, 2014, 07:10:48 pm »
0

In general, it would be nice if there were a distinction between putting an Action card into play and following the instructions on it. As it is, they're both "play". In the outtakes, it looked like you had the keyword "do" for when you just meant follow the instructions on the card. Why did that go away?
I looked for a "do," and the first one I found meant "play," so there you go, it may never have been different.

I could say "follow the instructions" though, or, as one version of Band of Misfits tried, "play it without putting it into play." It's not like it comes up so much that it needs terminology you have to look up.

It still has tracking issues, though. Playing a card from the supply and returning it when it would be discarded would have been better, I think. Was that an option? Does it have issues?

The only problems I see is that it makes the card ungainable while in play if you played the last ones available, and that it can potentially finish the game while in play, but neither sounds extremely awful. I don't like to remember what each BoM is IRL (online everything works great) and this would avoid that tracking issue. Especially when BoMing a Duration.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1389 on: May 23, 2014, 07:32:09 pm »
0

It still has tracking issues, though. Playing a card from the supply and returning it when it would be discarded would have been better, I think. Was that an option? Does it have issues?

The only problems I see is that it makes the card ungainable while in play if you played the last ones available, and that it can potentially finish the game while in play, but neither sounds extremely awful. I don't like to remember what each BoM is IRL (online everything works great) and this would avoid that tracking issue. Especially when BoMing a Duration.

It does allow you to e.g. Band of Misfits a Feast and not trash the Band of Misfits.
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soulnet

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1390 on: May 23, 2014, 07:43:58 pm »
0

It still has tracking issues, though. Playing a card from the supply and returning it when it would be discarded would have been better, I think. Was that an option? Does it have issues?

The only problems I see is that it makes the card ungainable while in play if you played the last ones available, and that it can potentially finish the game while in play, but neither sounds extremely awful. I don't like to remember what each BoM is IRL (online everything works great) and this would avoid that tracking issue. Especially when BoMing a Duration.

It does allow you to e.g. Band of Misfits a Feast and not trash the Band of Misfits.

Does not seem such a terrible issue, but it can be fixed by "If the played card is trashed, trash this". OK, you trashed an extra card, but it does not seem such a big difference, and easiness of text and tracking seems to take priority.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1391 on: May 23, 2014, 08:37:22 pm »
+5

In general, it would be nice if there were a distinction between putting an Action card into play and following the instructions on it. As it is, they're both "play". In the outtakes, it looked like you had the keyword "do" for when you just meant follow the instructions on the card. Why did that go away?
I looked for a "do," and the first one I found meant "play," so there you go, it may never have been different.

I could say "follow the instructions" though, or, as one version of Band of Misfits tried, "play it without putting it into play." It's not like it comes up so much that it needs terminology you have to look up.

It still has tracking issues, though. Playing a card from the supply and returning it when it would be discarded would have been better, I think. Was that an option? Does it have issues?

The only problems I see is that it makes the card ungainable while in play if you played the last ones available, and that it can potentially finish the game while in play, but neither sounds extremely awful. I don't like to remember what each BoM is IRL (online everything works great) and this would avoid that tracking issue. Especially when BoMing a Duration.
I tried this very thing, it was not usable. People shuffle the cards into their decks, it is too ingrained.
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DStu

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1392 on: May 30, 2014, 06:03:52 am »
0

Got Greed last week, so far like it.  Will maybe write some thread when I have played more than 3 1/2 games.

Anyway, Zoning Office. Despite the fact that it lead me into a combo that won me the game, it bugged me since then.  Why is it not either
a) When you play another Holding, gain $10k
or
b) Holdings costs you 10k less?

Instead it is (a+b)/2.


I mean, I have been long enough in these forums to instantly find 2 edge cases where there is a difference between a and b (and thus to (a+b)/2), but they don't seem that common, and the current form does not really seem to add something interesting [except of course I'm thinking about it since half a week].

It looks to me that you doubled the text on the card for achieving almost nothing over the two alternatives, which is contrary to design principles you have stated before.  So obviously I'm missing something!
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1393 on: May 30, 2014, 04:42:53 pm »
+4

Anyway, Zoning Office. Despite the fact that it lead me into a combo that won me the game, it bugged me since then.  Why is it not either
a) When you play another Holding, gain $10k
or
b) Holdings costs you 10k less?

Instead it is (a+b)/2.


I mean, I have been long enough in these forums to instantly find 2 edge cases where there is a difference between a and b (and thus to (a+b)/2), but they don't seem that common, and the current form does not really seem to add something interesting [except of course I'm thinking about it since half a week].

It looks to me that you doubled the text on the card for achieving almost nothing over the two alternatives, which is contrary to design principles you have stated before.  So obviously I'm missing something!
The original card was "Holding costs for other players are increased by $5." That died because it's too hard for other players to remember a card in front of you; they play their card and oops you can't afford that. I briefly tried "when they play a Holding they lose $5," then replaced it with the published version.

It's obv. different the three different ways, since some Holdings cost $ and some don't. It's not just an edge case; *checks* 12 out of 25 Holdings don't cost $ (well, counting Zoning Office).

With so many no-$ Holdings I wouldn't have been as happy with "Holdings cost $10 less." For sure I might have been happy with "When you play a Holding, gain $10" though, and yes I prefer simplifying things like that. That version is usually more powerful; +$5 for 11 out of 24 Holdings, although you need the full $ in advance for other Holdings. That might have been fine though. I never considered it and well I am going to fall back on, you don't see the mistakes they didn't make.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1394 on: May 30, 2014, 04:52:11 pm »
0

What's the actual wording for Zoning Office?  I'm having trouble figuring out what (a+b)/2 means.  My best guess right now is

"When you play another Holding, gain 5k.  Holdings cost 5k less."
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1395 on: May 30, 2014, 04:55:55 pm »
0

What's the actual wording for Zoning Office?  I'm having trouble figuring out what (a+b)/2 means.  My best guess right now is

"When you play another Holding, gain 5k.  Holdings cost 5k less."
Yes, that's it (Holdings cost *you* $5 less).
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DStu

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1396 on: May 31, 2014, 11:41:34 am »
0

Looks like between all the edge cases i missed the obvious one, thanks.
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Tables

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1397 on: May 31, 2014, 05:18:30 pm »
0

I played Greed for the first time today. Zoning Office was the first card I built, mostly because I read about it here. I then proceeded to win, much to my surprise.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

market squire

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1398 on: June 05, 2014, 11:33:26 am »
+1

- May? - a new strategy game that has not been announced. It's euro-ish, and has the Donald X. Variety Mechanic.
What about this one? :)
I guess it isn't a relative of Dominion? So, a boardgame/ tableau building game?
Can't you tell anything about who's the publisher or when they may announce it finally?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1399 on: June 05, 2014, 05:02:48 pm »
0

- May? - a new strategy game that has not been announced. It's euro-ish, and has the Donald X. Variety Mechanic.
What about this one? :)
I guess it isn't a relative of Dominion? So, a boardgame/ tableau building game?
Can't you tell anything about who's the publisher or when they may announce it finally?
It's not up to me to announce, and so far a publisher has never told me in advance when they were going to announce something. Still it seems likely that they will announce it soon.
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