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enfynet

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #825 on: March 04, 2013, 08:13:21 pm »
+1

What about mini-sets of say, 4 new cards? (i.e 4 new Durations, 4 new Treasures, 4 new Attacks) These could all be very similar cards and could satisfy the expansion-hungry audience. I think the only one I'd avoid is a set of only alt-Victory cards. I think people would spend $8-$10 on such packs. Heck, maybe include redemption codes for people to use one of those new cards on Goko or something.
I don't see the beauty of small sets like that. Like, a store has shelves with the Dominion expansions. They want this product in the same place so that the right people see it. It's not a good size for that space though. And then, like, the plastic insert has got to be too expensive for a small product like that, but surely it would bother the publisher to have provided that plastic insert for all other products but not these (yes many people might not care but they aren't the publisher).
I'll be honest. I wasn't even thinking of the plastic inserts that come with the games. I just assumed a box like poker cards come in. I think I actually forgot the boxes had inserts in them because I consolidated to one box so quickly.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #826 on: March 04, 2013, 08:41:23 pm »
+1

Squire is a 2 cost card that gives you 1 of something and 2 of something else, and you're often inclined to throw it in the trash.

Squire in Magic: The Gathering fits this same description? Coincidence?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #827 on: March 04, 2013, 08:49:08 pm »
+1

Squire is a 2 cost card that gives you 1 of something and 2 of something else, and you're often inclined to throw it in the trash.

Squire in Magic: The Gathering fits this same description? Coincidence?
Well I used the art for Magic's Squire, and they are both concepted as squires. Those are connections. My Squire was originally "+1 card +1 action, you may buy a silver or play an attack."
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SirPeebles

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #828 on: March 04, 2013, 08:51:52 pm »
0

So it let you buy a Silver during your action phase, with the whole Black Market baggage?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #829 on: March 04, 2013, 08:53:01 pm »
+1

So it let you buy a Silver during your action phase, with the whole Black Market baggage?
Yes, that was less weird back then as there were no phases, so a few cards did it.
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DStu

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #830 on: March 05, 2013, 02:22:34 am »
0

I've mentioned that a few obv. weak cards are weak, here in the company of you guys; recently someone on BGG quoted me saying here that Pirate Ship sucked, and I felt like, yeah, don't ever say things like that, we aren't actually at someone's house here after all. No-one needs to hear me saying bad things about Pirate Ship, it's not helping anyone, it's not increasing net human happiness. Have fun hilariously quoting this but really.

I think it increases human happiness. I don't think that I quoted you, but I was in that thread, and it was some typically "O my god Pirate Ship totally destroys the game"-thing, and if it makes someone break out of their groupthink that forces them into ugly games (in their opinion), then that is a good thing...
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Ozle

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #831 on: March 06, 2013, 03:12:33 pm »
+1

Cant remember if I have asked this before...

Roughly how many physical copies of your games do you think you have sold ?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #832 on: March 06, 2013, 03:15:52 pm »
+2

Cant remember if I have asked this before...

Roughly how many physical copies of your games do you think you have sold ?
It seems like this is the kind of thing you have to ask the companies. I don't know how public they want it to be. At one point Jay said in public that more than a million copies of Dominion had sold (counting all languages and expansions). So, more than a million.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #833 on: March 06, 2013, 03:32:48 pm »
0

Cant remember if I have asked this before...

Roughly how many physical copies of your games do you think you have sold ?
It seems like this is the kind of thing you have to ask the companies. I don't know how public they want it to be. At one point Jay said in public that more than a million copies of Dominion had sold (counting all languages and expansions). So, more than a million.

I'm sure you don't want to get too much into the business side of things, but do you directly make money off of more people buying sets? Like does a percentage of the sales go to you, or did Rio Grande just pay an overall license fee and keeps the actual profits?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #834 on: March 06, 2013, 03:42:00 pm »
0

I'm sure you don't want to get too much into the business side of things, but do you directly make money off of more people buying sets? Like does a percentage of the sales go to you, or did Rio Grande just pay an overall license fee and keeps the actual profits?
Like most deals with smaller game companies - which is to say, all of them except the giant ones like Hasbro, which just buy you out - mine is for a royalty, a percentage of the take. Every copy of Dominion sold makes me money. I don't get anything for promos. And it's the same for my other games.
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Ozle

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #835 on: March 06, 2013, 04:27:01 pm »
+2

Cant remember if I have asked this before...

Roughly how many physical copies of your games do you think you have sold ?
It seems like this is the kind of thing you have to ask the companies. I don't know how public they want it to be. At one point Jay said in public that more than a million copies of Dominion had sold (counting all languages and expansions). So, more than a million.

I figured you had a ballpark figure, and more than a million is easily more than enough for me to win a bet with a friend (I went over 500k total games sold with your name on it, he went under)

What? Dont judge me people, its a long ride home in the car pool!
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Polk5440

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #836 on: March 06, 2013, 04:35:21 pm »
0

Cant remember if I have asked this before...

Roughly how many physical copies of your games do you think you have sold ?
It seems like this is the kind of thing you have to ask the companies. I don't know how public they want it to be. At one point Jay said in public that more than a million copies of Dominion had sold (counting all languages and expansions). So, more than a million.

The WSJ has Ticket to Ride at 2 million physical copies plus 1.8 million digital copies sold.

Do you think Goko Dominion will be as popular or more popular than the physical expansions once it is released on all platforms? To what extent do you think sales of one platform drives sales of the other?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #837 on: March 06, 2013, 05:47:28 pm »
0

Do you think Goko Dominion will be as popular or more popular than the physical expansions once it is released on all platforms? To what extent do you think sales of one platform drives sales of the other?
I have no idea. I have no data.
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Avalanchian

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #838 on: March 06, 2013, 05:51:55 pm »
+1

Cant remember if I have asked this before...

Roughly how many physical copies of your games do you think you have sold ?
It seems like this is the kind of thing you have to ask the companies. I don't know how public they want it to be. At one point Jay said in public that more than a million copies of Dominion had sold (counting all languages and expansions). So, more than a million.

The WSJ has Ticket to Ride at 2 million physical copies plus 1.8 million digital copies sold.

Do you think Goko Dominion will be as popular or more popular than the physical expansions once it is released on all platforms? To what extent do you think sales of one platform drives sales of the other?

The PA Report had a pretty good article about how Ticket to Ride's virtual sales helped boost the physical sales of the game and vice versa. You might be interested if you've not seen it already?
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hypercube

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #839 on: March 06, 2013, 08:35:14 pm »
0

What percentage of luck and skill would you estimate goes into winning a game of Dominion?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #840 on: March 06, 2013, 08:43:59 pm »
+17

What percentage of luck and skill would you estimate goes into winning a game of Dominion?
It depends on the board.
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Polk5440

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #841 on: March 06, 2013, 08:44:58 pm »
0

Cant remember if I have asked this before...

Roughly how many physical copies of your games do you think you have sold ?
It seems like this is the kind of thing you have to ask the companies. I don't know how public they want it to be. At one point Jay said in public that more than a million copies of Dominion had sold (counting all languages and expansions). So, more than a million.

The WSJ has Ticket to Ride at 2 million physical copies plus 1.8 million digital copies sold.

Do you think Goko Dominion will be as popular or more popular than the physical expansions once it is released on all platforms? To what extent do you think sales of one platform drives sales of the other?

The PA Report had a pretty good article about how Ticket to Ride's virtual sales helped boost the physical sales of the game and vice versa. You might be interested if you've not seen it already?

Good article. I had not seen it.
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ipofanes

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #842 on: March 07, 2013, 02:23:47 am »
0

What percentage of luck and skill would you estimate goes into winning a game of Dominion?
It depends on the board.

Let's say a board involving Familiars and Tournaments  ::)
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #843 on: March 07, 2013, 03:07:18 am »
0

What percentage of luck and skill would you estimate goes into winning a game of Dominion?
It depends on the board.

Let's say a board involving Familiars and Tournaments  ::)
There's a thread you can look up that will tell you the effect each card has on your ability to predict the winner using trueskill. Wait I'll look it up for you. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2798.msg47781#msg47781

By that measure it turns out that Familiar and Tournament are better-than-average predictors, meaning higher-skill.

Of course luck and skill aren't opposites. Dominion overall is high-luck high-skill, like poker.
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ipofanes

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #844 on: March 07, 2013, 03:27:24 am »
0

Thanks, Donald, I expected Goons near the top but not Familiar and Tournament to be that high.

In a list like that I would expect the cards that are never picked up by good and bad players alike at the bottom, and the hard-to-play cards as well as the trap cards at the top. Grand Market is the only card at the top I'd recognise as a trap card.

As for high-luck-high-skill: Yes, some games, like Backgammon or (even more so) Poker, have so many luck elements that it takes skill to single out those that favour you.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 03:31:42 am by ipofanes »
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cactus

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #845 on: March 09, 2013, 07:58:59 am »
0

Hi Donald,

I think I've read everything that you've had to say on this thread and others about your preference not to do any further dominion expansions but rather to do other variant games probably with dominion in the title but not compatible with the original game.

From memory the main reasons were:
Diminishing returns by which I guess you meant that most of the good ideas have been done and so a further expansion would contain less good ideas and variations on ideas which had already been done.
Increasing complexity - the ideas which have not been done yet are at the more complicated end of the spectrum and thus would appeal to mostly the hard core fans rather than the more casual players that make up most of the buying public.

I find myself wondering does this mean you actually have enough good but really complicated ideas to make up another expansion (but feel that there would be no market for such an expansion, or that such an expansion would alienate casual gamers from the game)? Or are there simply not enough good ideas for cards left to do another a-grade expansion whatever the level of complexity?

If it is the later and there are just not enough good card ideas to make an a-grade expansion then I think it is sensible and honourable that you decline to make further (potentially substandard) expansions.

If it is the former and you have enough good ideas left to make an a-grade expansion but it probably won't happen because it will probably be too complicated for the general public - then that seems like a real pity.

Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #846 on: March 09, 2013, 04:13:57 pm »
+1

Diminishing returns by which I guess you meant that most of the good ideas have been done and so a further expansion would contain less good ideas and variations on ideas which had already been done.
No, diminishing returns means, when you have 25 cards, adding 25 with Intrigue doubles your number of cards and drastically increases your variety; but once you have 200 cards, you have a crazy amount of variety, and adding 25 more adds a lot less. You still get to explore the expansion itself, see what the new cards do and have those experiences, but in terms of giving the game variety, there are diminishing returns.

I find myself wondering does this mean you actually have enough good but really complicated ideas to make up another expansion (but feel that there would be no market for such an expansion, or that such an expansion would alienate casual gamers from the game)? Or are there simply not enough good ideas for cards left to do another a-grade expansion whatever the level of complexity?
There is also the insularity issue. A typical direction to go for an expansion is more like Alchemy than Intrigue. Let's say there's a Puerto Rico expansion; it adds plantations and corn and indigo and stuff. This game there's only one card from it and no-one bothers with it and people say what is this nonsense, worst expansion ever. But a spin-off can just make the plantations etc. a main part of what's going on.

If complexity and insularity aren't issues then you can make expansions forever. It isn't just the casual gaming public that doesn't want hyper-complex insular expansions though. Alchemy isn't too complex (it's too slow but that's obv. not the same thing) but it's too insular for too many people, despite struggling not to be. We don't have the data on the level of complexity Guilds (a non-insular expansion) has yet; obv. I am hoping it's not too complex, but it certainly points the direction that things to come would go in.

It's not that there's a big list of ideas and I can just say, too complex, too complex, too complex. There's a big list of ideas; I gave a sample in response to an earlier question (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5799.msg149323#msg149323). A typical idea just wasn't worth doing; there are a variety of possible reasons. There are ideas that probably would be fine but wouldn't be the exciting thing in their set; I could scrounge up a dull expansion. There is also a list of general mechanics; there most things are too insular, though they may have other issues.

If I were making a new expansion, it would mostly be new ideas, not stuff from the list. Maybe I would take a few things from the files, but just a few. And I did this, I made a new expansion, just like you want me to; it's Guilds. There were "only" going to be seven expansions, but I "needed" a small expansion to go between Hinterlands and Dark Ages (which then didn't go there due to Base Cards). I picked the most promising mechanic on my list and made some cards and well I expect the expansion to go over well with Dominion fans. And it's mostly new cards, with a few Dark Ages or earlier cards that I either moved there or finally fixed up there. And it's the most complex expansion. It's not "old ideas on the list that were too complex," it's, "try to do something good that isn't too redundant with what's already out there, hey look at that, it's complex."

Another item you left off your list is, that making a Dominion expansion means not doing whatever else. I had fun making the expansions but would like to make other games too.
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RobBennett

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #847 on: March 09, 2013, 05:10:10 pm »
0

I have every expansion and love them all and would buy more if more were made and am disappointed in a way that I will not be able to look forward to seeing more expansions.

That said, I want to thank Donald for not making more expansions just to be able to offer more expansions.

Over time, it would water down enthusiasm for the game. A game with some great expansions and some just okay expansions would not have as much integrity as Dominion possesses today.

I believe that Donald is doing the right thing in saying "no" to more expansions despite the interest that many have in seeing them and buying them and enjoying them.

The Beatles wouldn't be as loved today if they kept putting records out under the "Beatles" name all through the 1970s.

Rob
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #848 on: March 10, 2013, 01:10:24 am »
0

Diminishing returns by which I guess you meant that most of the good ideas have been done and so a further expansion would contain less good ideas and variations on ideas which had already been done.
No, diminishing returns means, when you have 25 cards, adding 25 with Intrigue doubles your number of cards and drastically increases your variety;
By a factor of 3142.
Quote
but once you have 200 cards, you have a crazy amount of variety, and adding 25 more adds a lot less.
A factor of 3.3.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #849 on: March 10, 2013, 01:28:09 am »
0

Diminishing returns by which I guess you meant that most of the good ideas have been done and so a further expansion would contain less good ideas and variations on ideas which had already been done.
No, diminishing returns means, when you have 25 cards, adding 25 with Intrigue doubles your number of cards and drastically increases your variety;
By a factor of 3142.
Quote
but once you have 200 cards, you have a crazy amount of variety, and adding 25 more adds a lot less.
A factor of 3.3.
The total number of possible sets of 10 isn't a good measure of how much variety you have. As someone once said, a lot of those variations involve swapping Feast with Scout or what have you. But the relevant thing here is, at 200 cards, you are already never seeing everything; adding 25 cards doesn't change that. At 25 cards, you will eventually see everything, despite not having seen every possible set of 10.

You do get variety from cards #201-225, but it's in the new experiences the new cards offer, not in the increase in the number of possible sets of 10. But cards #26-#50 gave you both things.
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