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Author Topic: What did my Opponent do wrong that lead to my win?  (Read 904 times)

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What did my Opponent do wrong that lead to my win?
« on: December 06, 2012, 05:30:14 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-142545-6ca9bdc1.html
I'm rather confused about what it was that my opponent did wrong that lead to my win. Was it just that the available actions were just that weak that my BM-focused deck was just strong enough to win?
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ftl

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Re: What did my Opponent do wrong that lead to my win?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 05:51:00 pm »
+1

Well, they didn't really build a particularly focused engine. Their only draw was one lab, one oracle, and one torturer -  I guess Throne Rooms made it work, but it wasn't really a proper Engine per se. There's no trashing, so that wasn't really enough to get an appreciable amount of consistency. They also greened pretty early - as soon as they got $8, in fact.

You played it a little simpler and just got more money, more golds and more silvers.

I can see how, with proper use of Throne Room and Haven, you could set up a consistent Torturer engine - Havens to smooth out draws, get more than one Torturer, use Throne Room on Haven or Spy as a village (or, even better, have LABS to throne room), add woodcutter to load up on some of those cheap components. But your opponent didn't really do that well. Take a look at his turns 14 and 15. Turn 14 - have two terminals in hand, play a spy, play a torturer, presumably draw a bunch of stuff dead because all he does is spend $3 and buy a silver. Or his turn 15 - draw two throne rooms dead, do nothing. Or his turn 16 - play a few spies, buy two havens. Turns 14-16 an engine should be getting somewhere! Finally, his turn 17, he starts the turn with Throne Room+Lab, this should be great! ...and ends the turn having played no torturers, with just enough to buy an explorer.

I think his opening was pretty bad. Oracle/Spy is really pretty bad for getting to $5 - and $5 is where the goodies are, Torturer and Lab. He doesn't get $5 until turn 6. If you're going for a throne room engine here, you really would like to be throne rooming labs  and then torturers and not spies.
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DG

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Re: What did my Opponent do wrong that lead to my win?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 07:57:20 pm »
+1

Torturer and treasure is stronger than you might think. The Goko bots taught me that. Here an opponent is only getting the better of torturer+treasure when playing multiple torturers, and that means getting some good throne combinations drawn. Thrones will be played on some mediocre cards like spies and havens to generate actions for the torturer rather then being played on the torturer itself. Any lab bought is a missed opportunity to buy a torturer. Even when the deck draws well there are no useful extra buys or gains. Nonetheless there's some potential for a throne room engine but I'm not at all surprised that one failed.
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clb

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Re: What did my Opponent do wrong that lead to my win?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 08:30:56 pm »
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Torturer and treasure is stronger than you might think. The Goko bots taught me that.

I learned that from them, too! I am glad to learn I was not the only one surprised at the approach. It makes sense, but I never thought about it.
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Re: What did my Opponent do wrong that lead to my win?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 05:30:18 pm »
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Torturer and treasure is stronger than you might think. The Goko bots taught me that. Here an opponent is only getting the better of torturer+treasure when playing multiple torturers, and that means getting some good throne combinations drawn. Thrones will be played on some mediocre cards like spies and havens to generate actions for the torturer rather then being played on the torturer itself. Any lab bought is a missed opportunity to buy a torturer. Even when the deck draws well there are no useful extra buys or gains. Nonetheless there's some potential for a throne room engine but I'm not at all surprised that one failed.
Thanks to you and to ftl(what is up with 2-3 letter names o.o) for your advice. I found yours especially helpful to my improvement as I never thought of doing that sort of engine, has an article been written/posted about this on the blog yet?
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