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Author Topic: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion  (Read 15840 times)

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mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 03:22:17 pm »
0

I'll put together a "bracket" in a google spreadsheet for you, if nothing else. Can just move things around each round to reflect the way the matchups came out, and eventually we'll end up with a bizarre looking bracket at the end.
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Insomniac

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 03:24:25 pm »
0

I'll put together a "bracket" in a google spreadsheet for you, if nothing else. Can just move things around each round to reflect the way the matchups came out, and eventually we'll end up with a bizarre looking bracket at the end.

Thanks!

if it helps any I've already sorted the entrants by seed (from entering them into challonge)

1   TheSadPanda   -   
2   Master Shuffler   -   
3   ibavly   -   
4   Qvist   -   
5   Powerman   -   
6   Antonidas   -   
7   loppo   -   
8   AdamH   -   
9   Gandi   -   
10   Moomi   -   
11   GwinnR   -   
12   Axxle   -   
13   jider   -   
14   xeiron   -   
15   Forge!!!   -   
16   Emeric   -   
17   bitwise   -   
18   Joseph2302   -   
19   Masticore   -   
20   Dsell   -   
21   TDog   -   
22   Tonks77   -   
23   Khan93   -   
24   Dekryr   -   
25   warrior297   -   
26   Geefour   -   
27   Insomniac   -   
28   BestKenEver   -   
29   -dg-   -   
30   hsiale   -   
31   KC-KC-Scout-Scout-Scout   -   
32   Psyduck   -   
33   Tasman1414   -   
34   funcrusher   -   
35   BlackJackDavie   -   
36   liopoil (jefhw)   -   
37   Harniver   -
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theory

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 03:27:10 pm »
0

Should we put this in a subforum?  Or will that hide its visibility too much?
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Insomniac

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 03:28:17 pm »
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Should we put this in a subforum?  Or will that hide its visibility too much?

I'm fine with that, I actually suggested it a while back was told it probably wasn't necessary
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mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2012, 03:56:14 pm »
+2

Perhaps just a sticky for visibility and reporting results? I propose calling this the "Rats! Division".

We can link to the current round's signup thread there, and all the signup threads can go in a subforum.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 03:59:35 pm by mith »
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mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2012, 04:04:14 pm »
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Btw, I count 38; you're missing hongrich. (Looks like you doubled up on a number in the signup thread?)
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Insomniac

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2012, 04:06:00 pm »
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nice catch, i doubled up on 29 and so he missed the double check of satisfying the number i thought I had.
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2012, 04:19:45 pm »
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mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2012, 04:21:06 pm »
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Guess that's a mod only feature... should work for you though, if you want to copy it to the OP of our results thread.
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Insomniac

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2012, 04:21:40 pm »
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Will do
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

theory

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2012, 04:23:41 pm »
+1

Arbitrary HTML is an admin-only feature.  If you PM me after you make the thread I can edit it in and the topic will accept it (until you edit it again).
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2012, 12:16:17 pm »
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Arbitrary HTML is an admin-only feature.  If you PM me after you make the thread I can edit it in and the topic will accept it (until you edit it again).

Maybe you should edit in to the second post, then, so that when he edits the original post, it won't break.
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Insomniac

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2012, 12:17:31 pm »
0

Arbitrary HTML is an admin-only feature.  If you PM me after you make the thread I can edit it in and the topic will accept it (until you edit it again).

Maybe you should edit in to the second post, then, so that when he edits the original post, it won't break.

Unless something crazy happens we aren't editing the first post now
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

kn1tt3r

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2012, 04:47:23 am »
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I'm only an observer, but nevertheless: How will this losers bracket combine with the 4 normal brackets? I mean, as far as know it's currently not covered in the tournament structure, which is "4 brackets => elite 8 with #1 and #2 of each bracket => final"...

There's also the time schedule, where the losers bracket is always 1 week behind the others, which might conflict at some point.

I'm sure this can all be solved, but well, at first it has to be on the agenda at all.
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mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2012, 09:21:31 am »
+1

I'm not really sure what you're asking in the first question. We're pulling losers from each round of the main tournament, regardless of which division they come from. Just ignore the divisions and think of it as one big 256 player bracket (which is what it is, really, the divisions are just to make the presentation and result reporting manageable).

For the second, being 1 week behind isn't an issue at all, as this is an unofficial tournament with no feedback into the main tournament (i.e. the winner of the loser's bracket isn't going to get a second chance at the DS.com 2012 champ or anything like that). Depending on the number of players who actually participate, we may finish the same week as the main tournament anyway (I'm assuming a third place match, so we're probably not going to be having to deal with new entries at that point).

(FWIW, if everyone participated in the losers' bracket who could, it would take 11 rounds, plus already being one week behind, which means we would finish a full four weeks later than the main tournament. Obviously that won't happen, as we only had 38 out of a possible 128 in the first round.)
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2012, 03:12:03 pm »
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I'm not really sure what you're asking in the first question. We're pulling losers from each round of the main tournament, regardless of which division they come from. Just ignore the divisions and think of it as one big 256 player bracket (which is what it is, really, the divisions are just to make the presentation and result reporting manageable).

For the second, being 1 week behind isn't an issue at all, as this is an unofficial tournament with no feedback into the main tournament (i.e. the winner of the loser's bracket isn't going to get a second chance at the DS.com 2012 champ or anything like that). Depending on the number of players who actually participate, we may finish the same week as the main tournament anyway (I'm assuming a third place match, so we're probably not going to be having to deal with new entries at that point).

(FWIW, if everyone participated in the losers' bracket who could, it would take 11 rounds, plus already being one week behind, which means we would finish a full four weeks later than the main tournament. Obviously that won't happen, as we only had 38 out of a possible 128 in the first round.)

Ah ok, I thought the winner of this losers' bracket would be somehow merged into the official tournament again. Now it's clear, ty.
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loppo

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2012, 02:41:49 am »
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Looking Back at the evolution of the losers Bracket, wouldnt it have been better to make the whole touirnament organized swiss style. That would have taken care of the seating discussion, because the good players play each other starting from round 2, and everybody can play as long as he desires.

This last point is what i always liked in m:tg tournaments. No matter how bad you are (and i was quite bad) you would not be eliminated. So you feel like doing good, even if you are losing. And in the end you get a very accurate ranking of all the players.
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mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2012, 11:30:41 pm »
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We haven't heard from either opponent in two of our matchups... Assuming that remains the case tomorrow, it seems the only solution will be to remove both participants from the tournament. Hopefully it won't come to that, though.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2012, 12:55:13 pm »
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Looking Back at the evolution of the losers Bracket, wouldnt it have been better to make the whole touirnament organized swiss style. That would have taken care of the seating discussion, because the good players play each other starting from round 2, and everybody can play as long as he desires.

This last point is what i always liked in m:tg tournaments. No matter how bad you are (and i was quite bad) you would not be eliminated. So you feel like doing good, even if you are losing. And in the end you get a very accurate ranking of all the players.

The difficulty in doing a swiss tournament with this kind of timing is, it's hard enough to make sure everyone still in contention contacts each other and plays there matches as it is. At least with single elimination, the next round can mostly continue even if a couple matches still haven't been played. With Swiss, you can't even pair the next round until every match from the previous round is completed.
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Qvist

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2013, 09:42:55 pm »
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After how many rounds after you lost in the main tournament will you still be allowed to join here?

I mean, after this round there are 12 players left with currently no new sign-ups for the next round.
And at some point we need to get to 4/8/16 players to get a nice bracket which we could play until end without late free tickets.
If no-one joins we will have at some point 3 players left.

I suggest that we don't allow new sign-ups after we got 4 sign-ups for 16 players this round or after we got 2 sign-ups for 8 players the next round or after we got 1 new sign-up for 4 players in 2 rounds.
I don't know what we should do if we don't get any new sign-ups.

mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2013, 12:11:22 am »
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Well, we'll get at least one new (round 5) signup after I lose to -Stef- on Saturday... >_>

My intent was to only close signups here after round 6, based on the assumption that the main tournament will have a third place match again. The possibility of byes is annoying, but it's inherent in the nature of trying to do this style of tournament with running signups and an unknown number of players.

That said, if it makes sense to close signups after round 5, I will do so. We can always arrange a separate thing for the round 6 losers, if any of them want to participate.
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soulnet

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2013, 11:12:38 am »
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Also, if we run into a last 3, I think we could go all-vs-all and the double winner is the champ, solving ties by game-difference and repeating in case of triple tie (which is not likely at all). This may make someone a Kingmaker in the third of this games, but we can agree to hold out on posting results until all matches have been played, or, if all 3 players can schedule simultaneous play, round-robbin the games of all 3 matches (this would be extremely cool).
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Qvist

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2013, 01:10:32 am »
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Sorry, I don't want to hurry or anything and sorry if I missed it, but when will the Round 4 Matchups announced?

mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2013, 03:22:12 pm »
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They're up now.
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mith

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Re: Losers Bracket - Structure Discussion
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2013, 03:29:34 pm »
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soulnet, I wouldn't be opposed to arranging some sort of round robin between the final three if we got to that point.

On the other hand, we may end up in a situation with three players left and two have already had byes, in which case giving the third player a bye to the final would probably be more fair.

The problem in any case is that at the moment it's not just a matter of getting down to three and decided what to do there... if no one else joins and I stay in, we have the following numbers:

Round 4 (current): 13 -> 7 advance (1 bye)
Round 5: 7+2 -> 5 advance (1 bye)
Round 6: 5 -> 3 advance (1 bye)
Round 7: 3 -> 2 advance (1 bye), or round robin

That's a lot of byes... A single bye late in the tournament doesn't bother me so much (the format is prone to somewhat screwy matchups anyway), but I'd rather avoid four in a row. And if I drop myself:

Round 5: 7+1 -> 4 advance (0 bye)
Round 6: 4 -> 2
Round 7: 2 -> 1
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 03:30:44 pm by mith »
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