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Author Topic: Random Stuff  (Read 1162769 times)

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ConMan

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1050 on: October 28, 2013, 05:37:06 pm »
0

Finding primes is a difficult business. The first step is running a huge batch of numbers through a sieve designed to detect "probable primes", and there are one or two fairly common ones in use. After that, you have to pick a subset of your probable primes and test each one for true primality, which is a slow and painful process. Given that they're all searching in the same general space of numbers (for N-bit security, presumably the vicinity of 2^(N/2)), to have a few collisions is probably as much the result of the birthday paradox as it is poor design of their prime number finding algorithms.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1051 on: October 28, 2013, 05:40:32 pm »
+1

Finding primes is a difficult business. The first step is running a huge batch of numbers through a sieve designed to detect "probable primes", and there are one or two fairly common ones in use. After that, you have to pick a subset of your probable primes and test each one for true primality, which is a slow and painful process. Given that they're all searching in the same general space of numbers (for N-bit security, presumably the vicinity of 2^(N/2)), to have a few collisions is probably as much the result of the birthday paradox as it is poor design of their prime number finding algorithms.

No, they explicitly discuss the birthday paradox and dismiss it as an explanation. 
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ConMan

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1052 on: October 28, 2013, 05:49:46 pm »
0

Yep, I'm now actually bothering to read the article and see it right there. :P
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1053 on: October 28, 2013, 07:30:33 pm »
+4

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1054 on: October 28, 2013, 08:12:06 pm »
0

As I understand it, they often skip the final primality testing stage.  If your probabilistic primality test has a failure rate of e^-50 then what you're left with are industrial-grade primes, which are good enough for most purposes.  Problems caused by these numbers not actually being prime will be swamped by problems caused by cosmic rays hitting your RAM.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1055 on: October 28, 2013, 08:20:00 pm »
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Isn't the fact that the NSA has some kind of backdoor to commonly used encryption techniques more than a conspiracy theory?
http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/20/4751364/rsa-tells-developers-to-stop-using-encryption-with-suspected-nsa-backdoor
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 08:21:21 pm by Watno »
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1056 on: October 28, 2013, 09:38:38 pm »
0

Isn't the fact that the NSA has some kind of backdoor to commonly used encryption techniques more than a conspiracy theory?
http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/20/4751364/rsa-tells-developers-to-stop-using-encryption-with-suspected-nsa-backdoor

I find it amusing that it's NIST basically saying "Don't use this prime-generating algorithm, our sister government agency hacked it."
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1057 on: October 29, 2013, 12:12:20 am »
0

Oh god, in the most recent Cookie Clicker update the Grandmapocalypse is at least 8x more terrifying
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1058 on: October 29, 2013, 04:40:18 am »
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Oh god, in the most recent Cookie Clicker update the Grandmapocalypse is at least 8x more terrifying
true, but you know If you look at how they work, when you pop the wrinklers you get more cookies than you lost (it says with interest) so instead of making it worse, the grandmapocalypse is better! WOOO!

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1059 on: October 29, 2013, 05:56:31 am »
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A new update?  But I was finally going to be free.  The morning after I hit one quintillion my mouse battery died, and I wasn't going to replace it.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1060 on: October 29, 2013, 10:12:14 am »
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Do any of you know how the interest on wrinklers work?

One possibility is that it is just a flat percentage return.  Like, for every 100 cookies a wrinkler "eats", you earn 105 cookies for popping it.  In that case, wrinklers effectively just give an additional layer of +% to your cps.

If, on the other hand, it works like interest at a bank, then the value of a popping a wrinkler would increase by, say, 5% per hour (not accounting for additional cookie consumption during that time, which only provides a linear correction).  That would then mean exponential growth, and over the long term the optimal strategy would be to just accumulate 10 wrinklers and permit them to feed for weeks and weeks.
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AHoppy

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1061 on: October 29, 2013, 10:17:32 am »
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No idea how the interest works... the wiki doesn't even mention interest, just the update log in game

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1062 on: October 29, 2013, 10:41:29 am »
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wiki and reddit are both saying that you 110% of what they ate.  No exponential growth after all.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1063 on: October 29, 2013, 11:59:44 am »
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I just looked in the source code, it's 110%.  It says: "cookie dough does weird things inside wrinkler digestive tracts"
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1064 on: October 29, 2013, 01:27:09 pm »
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My goodness, that new Grandma sprite is creepy.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1065 on: October 29, 2013, 01:49:47 pm »
+1

Non-cookie related I'm afraid

Just had a PM on another board gamin website that said
"Hey, didn't I read somewhere that you were the guy who have the idea away for Dominion??!"

I told him he was getting me mixed up with Eevee, and that I got that a lot...


Still, can't think where he got that from.....
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1066 on: October 29, 2013, 02:01:18 pm »
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http://www.reddit.com/r/CookieClicker/comments/1ph1ol/confirmed_let_the_wrinklers_wrinkle_minimal/

According to this thread on reddit, there appears to be a bug where the wrinklers accumulate cookies extra quickly when you have lots of them.   If you have N wrinklers, then your cps drops by N*5%, but the code apparently records each wrinkler as eating N*5% cps.  Thus you earn (1.1)*N^2*5%  cps when you ultimately pop them.
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AHoppy

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1067 on: October 29, 2013, 02:02:04 pm »
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wiki and reddit are both saying that you 110% of what they ate.  No exponential growth after all.
Somehow I missed that (well, I'm not a redditor).  Anywho, I just hit 100 anti-matter condensers... what do I do next?

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1068 on: October 29, 2013, 02:11:12 pm »
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wiki and reddit are both saying that you 110% of what they ate.  No exponential growth after all.
Somehow I missed that (well, I'm not a redditor).  Anywho, I just hit 100 anti-matter condensers... what do I do next?

Buy Reverse Cyclotrons!

After that, you can save up for Sextillion Fingers or soft reset for Heavenly Chips.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1069 on: October 29, 2013, 03:15:31 pm »
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I'm pretty close to 100 anti-matter condensers. Been buying things which are the most efficient, but always keeping my bank balance just above 84,000 times my CpS to maximise possible cookies from a Frenzy-Lucky. That said it might actually be better just to leave things in angered mode and let 10 wrinklers eat away for the massive bonuses they give when eventually popped (also wrinkler popping = more achievements = more milk which is a pretty massive CpS bonus).

Right now I have:
203 cursors
198 Grannies
140 Farms
128 Factories
123 Mines
118 Shipments
115 Alchemy Labs
119 Portals
106 Time Machines
93 Antimatter Condensers
101 Heavenly Chips

And every possible upgrade I can get, excluding a few Halloween cookies.

As an aside, I think the numbers on the wiki are incorrect. I've popped 15 Wrinkers so far and have three Halloween cookies, so if it's really 5% each... yeah. Also I had 3 wrinklers about 30 seconds after my Covenant ran out, making me think their 0.1% per frame is also wrong. I'm either very lucky, or those numbers are off.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

SirPeebles

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1070 on: October 29, 2013, 03:25:22 pm »
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It is definitely worth popping wrinklers for the achievements/milk.  After that, I'm unsure.  With ten wrinklers sucking on your cookies, you get an effective x6 multiplier.  The cps nerf dampens the effects of both Ruin and Lucky, but the effective x6 stacks with Elder Frenzy, giving you x3996 for 12 seconds (!).  That is about 13 hours 20 minutes worth of production over a 12 second period,  But that is comparable to a Frenzy + Click Frenzy combo.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1071 on: October 29, 2013, 05:30:33 pm »
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It is definitely worth popping wrinklers for the achievements/milk.  After that, I'm unsure.  With ten wrinklers sucking on your cookies, you get an effective x6 multiplier.  The cps nerf dampens the effects of both Ruin and Lucky, but the effective x6 stacks with Elder Frenzy, giving you x3996 for 12 seconds (!).  That is about 13 hours 20 minutes worth of production over a 12 second period,  But that is comparable to a Frenzy + Click Frenzy combo.

I will probably get the achievements and be done with them.  The grandmapocalypse is to freaky.

Also, I was thinking this cookie clicker discussion could probably be it's own thread...  We've taken over the Random Stuff thread.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1072 on: October 29, 2013, 06:14:55 pm »
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Why do people put things in games but don't release that part?  (I know there's a name for it, but I can't remember)  I was just looking in the cookie clicker code and there's an item commented out that increases your CpS but sacrifices golden cookies.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1073 on: October 29, 2013, 06:31:34 pm »
+5

Got to love my language:

Quote
English: A dog.
Swedish: What?
English: The dog.
English: Two dogs.
Swedish:
Swedish:
Swedish: En hund, hunden.
Swedish: Två hundar, hundarna.
German:
English: No, go away.
Swedish: No one invited you.
German: Der Hund.
English: I said go away.
German: Ein Hund, zwei Hunde.
Swedish: Stop it.
German: Den Hund, einen Hund, dem Hund, einem Hund, des Hundes, eines Hundes, den Hunden, der Hunden.
Finnish: Sup.
English: NO.
Swedish: NO.
German: NO.
Finnish:
English:
German:
Swedish:
Finnish: Koira, koiran, koiraa, koiran again, koirassa, koirasta, koiraan, koiralla, koiralta, koiralle, koirana, koiraksi, koiratta, koirineen, koirin.
German:
Swedish:
Finnish:
English:
Finnish: Aaaand... koirasi, koirani, koiransa, koiramme, koiranne, koiraani, koiraasi, koiraansa, koiraamme, koiraanne, koirassani, koirassasi, koirassansa, koirassamme, koirassanne, koirastani, koirastasi, koirastansa, koirastamme, koirastanne, koirallani, koirallasi, koirallansa, koirallamme, koirallanne, koiranani, koiranasi, koiranansa, koiranamme, koirananne, koirakseni, koiraksesi, koiraksensa, koiraksemme, koiraksenne, koirattani, koirattasi, koirattansa, koirattamme, koirattanne, koirineni, koirinesi, koirinensa, koirinemme, koirinenne.
English:
Swedish:
German:
Finnish: Wait! then theres koirakaan, koirankaan, koiraakaan, koirassakaan, koirastakaan, koiraankaan, koirallakaan, koiraltakaan, koirallekaan, koiranakaan, koiraksikaan, koirattakaan, koirineenkaan, koirinkaan, koirako, koiranko, koiraako, koirassako, koirastako, koiraanko, koirallako, koiraltako, koiralleko, koiranako, koiraksiko, koirattako, koirineenko, koirinko, koirasikaan, koiranikaan, koiransakaan, koirammekaan, koirannekaan, koiraanikaan, koiraasikaan, koiraansakaan, koiraammekaan, koiraannekaan, koirassanikaan, koirassasikaan, koirassansakaan, koirassammekaan, koirassannekaan, koirastanikaan, koirastasikaan, koirastansakaan, koirastammekaan, koirastannekaan, koirallanikaan, koirallasikaan, koirallansakaan, koirallammekaan, koirallannekaan, koirananikaan, koiranasikaan, koiranansakaan, koiranammekaan, koiranannekaan, koiraksenikaan, koiraksesikaan, koiraksensakaan, koiraksemmekaan, koiraksennekaan, koirattanikaan, koirattasikaan, koirattansakaan, koirattammekaan, koirattannekaan, koirinenikaan, koirinesikaan, koirinensakaan, koirinemmekaan, koirinennekaan, koirasiko, koiraniko, koiransako, koirammeko, koiranneko, koiraaniko, koiraasiko, koiraansako, koiraammeko, koiraanneko, koirassaniko, koirassasiko, koirassansako, koirassammeko, koirassanneko, koirastaniko, koirastasiko, koirastansako, koirastammeko, koirastanneko, koirallaniko, koirallasiko, koirallansako, koirallammeko, koirallanneko, koirananiko, koiranasiko, koiranansako, koiranammeko, koirananneko, koirakseniko, koiraksesiko, koiraksensako, koiraksemmeko, koiraksenneko, koirattaniko, koirattasiko, koirattansako, koirattammeko, koirattanneko, koirineniko, koirinesiko, koirinensako, koirinemmeko, koirinenneko, koirasikaanko, koiranikaanko, koiransakaanko, koirammekaanko, koirannekaanko, koiraanikaanko, koiraasikaanko, koiraansakaanko, koiraammekaanko, koiraannekaanko, koirassanikaanko, koirassasikaanko, koirassansakaanko, koirassammekaanko, koirassannekaanko, koirastanikaanko, koirastasikaanko, koirastansakaanko, koirastammekaanko, koirastannekaanko, koirallanikaanko, koirallasikaanko, koirallansakaanko, koirallammekaanko, koirallannekaanko, koirananikaanko, koiranasikaanko, koiranansakaanko, koiranammekaanko, koiranannekaanko, koiraksenikaanko, koiraksesikaanko, koiraksensakaanko, koiraksemmekaanko, koiraksennekaanko, koirattanikaanko, koirattasikaanko, koirattansakaanko, koirattammekaanko, koirattannekaanko, koirinenikaanko, koirinesikaanko, koirinensakaanko, koirinemmekaanko, koirinennekaanko, koirasikokaan, koiranikokaan, koiransakokaan, koirammekokaan, koirannekokaan, koiraanikokaan, koiraasikokaan, koiraansakokaan, koiraammekokaan, koiraannekokaan, koirassanikokaan, koirassasikokaan, koirassansakokaan, koirassammekokaan, koirassannekokaan, koirastanikokaan, koirastasikokaan, koirastansakokaan, koirastammekokaan, koirastannekokaan, koirallanikokaan, koirallasikokaan, koirallansakokaan, koirallammekokaan, koirallannekokaan, koirananikokaan, koiranasikokaan, koiranansakokaan, koiranammekokaan, koiranannekokaan, koiraksenikokaan, koiraksesikokaan, koiraksensakokaan, koiraksemmekokaan, koiraksennekokaan, koirattanikokaan, koirattasikokaan, koirattansakokaan, koirattammekokaan, koirattannekokaan, koirinenikokaan, koirinesikokaan, koirinensakokaan, koirinemmekokaan, koirinennekokaan.
Swedish:
German:
English: Okay, now you're just making things up!
Finnish:
Finnish: And now the plural forms...
Whoever wrote this, forgot the -kin, -han, -kinhan, -kinko, -kohan and -pa forms, though (and it's possible that I'm not remembering them all, either). So the last list of words should be like 3 times as long.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1074 on: October 29, 2013, 07:47:19 pm »
0

Finnish: And now the plural forms...

+100  ;D

I just know what a pussi is. Note it's with i, not with y.

Explanation: When I was in hospital two months ago, there was a bag for women sanitary napkins at the toilet. The bag was translated in all kind of languages. When I read "pussi" I was kind of confused. I didn't know if it stood for "women", "sanitary" or "napkin".  :P
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 07:50:37 pm by Qvist »
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