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Author Topic: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty  (Read 3402 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« on: December 03, 2012, 12:44:54 am »
+1

Is my understand of this right? I think I got the logic all down but it seems so strange to me.

I play Counterfeit and choose Horn of Plenty, playing it twice. The first time I play it, I have exactly eight differently named cards in play, including the Counterfeit and the HOP, so I choose to gain a Province, which then trashes the HOP. The second time I play it, it's in the trash, so now I only have seven differently named cards in play and can only gain a card costing up to seven. (The counterfeit then tries to trash the HOP again but it's already in the trash so it can't.)
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jonts26

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 12:56:52 am »
+1

Correct.
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lespeutere

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 05:53:47 am »
0

Unless you had played another HoP. But I guess, that's obvious to you.
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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2012, 12:18:34 am »
+2

Oh man.  How did I not think of Counterfeit/HoP?  The implications...  Counterfeit -> Counterfeit -> Double HoP with 9 different cards in play = 4 Provinces? 
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jonts26

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 12:41:12 am »
+1

Oh man.  How did I not think of Counterfeit/HoP?  The implications...  Counterfeit -> Counterfeit -> Double HoP with 9 different cards in play = 4 Provinces?

If you replace those counterfeits with  HoP's, you still get 4 Provinces.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 12:48:46 am »
+1

Oh man.  How did I not think of Counterfeit/HoP?  The implications...  Counterfeit -> Counterfeit -> Double HoP with 9 different cards in play = 4 Provinces?

If you replace those counterfeits with  HoP's, you still get 4 Provinces.

For that matter, if you don't stack your Counterfeits you won't have to trash either of them.  The stacking does get you an extra $1 and buy though.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2012, 03:33:57 am »
+1

I don't think Counterfeit combos well with HoP, unless you just want it for Copper trashing or to bump up HoP's worth.  You don't want to counterfiet your horns while building up because then the horn is gone and you can't use it to build up any more.  And since the $5 price tag puts them in competition with each other, you're probably better off getting more HoPs. 

But it might be useful if the Copper trashing is important for you to draw 8 unique cards together.
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jsh357

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2012, 08:48:03 am »
+1

yeah, it's not so hot after further analysis I guess.  too bad.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 04:19:58 pm »
+1

Oh man.  How did I not think of Counterfeit/HoP?  The implications...  Counterfeit -> Counterfeit -> Double HoP with 9 different cards in play = 4 Provinces?

If you replace those counterfeits with  HoP's, you still get 4 Provinces.

For that matter, if you don't stack your Counterfeits you won't have to trash either of them.  The stacking does get you an extra $1 and buy though.

That brings up an interesting point- stacking counterfeits obviously isn't as powerful as stacking throne rooms or KC's, but the extra money might make it worth it to do it occasionally.
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ftl

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 04:28:23 pm »
0

It's an extra +$1 and +1 Buy over just playing the two counterfeits separately. I'd wager that is worth it very rarely, UNLESS you're ending the game that turn anyway.
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Kirian

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 05:28:59 pm »
0

I don't think Counterfeit combos well with HoP, unless you just want it for Copper trashing or to bump up HoP's worth.  You don't want to counterfiet your horns while building up because then the horn is gone and you can't use it to build up any more.  And since the $5 price tag puts them in competition with each other, you're probably better off getting more HoPs. 

But it might be useful if the Copper trashing is important for you to draw 8 unique cards together.

I think the point is that it combos well in the endgame, when you were planning to trash the HOPs anyway.
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joel88s

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 05:12:46 pm »
0

I have another question about this. After I play Counterfeit, can I then play the Horn of Plenty but elect not to use the Counterfeit effect on it? The same question could arise with Bank; in both cases I might want to play the Counterfeit first to get credit for it toward the HoP/Bank but not necessarily trash that succeeding card.

The rulebook notes on Counterfeit say:
Quote
When you play it, you also get +1 Buy, and you may play an additional Treasure card from your hand twice. If you choose to do that, you trash that Treasure.

While this doesn't say unequivocally that you may choose to play an additional Treasure once in the usual manner, the phrase 'if you choose to do that' suggests to me that you can. It does seems a bit ambiguous however whether the choice is simply to play another Treasure or not, or to double-play/trash it or not.

I'm asking in particular because I discovered that Goko doesn't allow this option, it automatically trashes whatever Treasure you play after Counterfeit, and I thought I'd clarify the ruling before writing them about it.
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jonts26

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 05:14:56 pm »
0

Sure, you can elect to play the counterfiet and not use it's extra throne room ability. In that case, it acts just as a copper with a +buy. Then you can play whatever other treasures you want normally.

Goko seems to have another bug to report then.
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hsiale

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 05:46:19 pm »
+1

I'm asking in particular because I discovered that Goko doesn't allow this option, it automatically trashes whatever Treasure you play after Counterfeit, and I thought I'd clarify the ruling before writing them about it.
I have just played a game with Counterfeit to check this. When I play Counterfeit I am asked "Choose Treasure to play as Counterfeit or click Done" - when I click Done I can play the treasures and none of them gets trashed.
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joel88s

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 08:30:13 pm »
0

I'm asking in particular because I discovered that Goko doesn't allow this option, it automatically trashes whatever Treasure you play after Counterfeit, and I thought I'd clarify the ruling before writing them about it.
I have just played a game with Counterfeit to check this. When I play Counterfeit I am asked "Choose Treasure to play as Counterfeit or click Done" - when I click Done I can play the treasures and none of them gets trashed.

Confirmed! Didn't notice the Done button - maybe that goes to another Goko quibble I've made, that the little white text is easy to overlook. (Also strange (maybe unique?) to have a Done button for a Treasure.) It does work correctly though.

Thanks for the clarification on both points!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:33:06 pm by joel88s »
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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 08:35:10 pm »
0

How does counterfeit work with Bank and horde?

If I counterfeit a horde and buy duchy do I get 2 Golds or 0?

If I counterfeit a copper and play bank is my total 1 + 2 coppers + 4 from bank OR 1 plus 2 coppers plus 2 from bank (coppers are trashed and no longer in play)?

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but Androminion does it wrong, and gives me the golds, and counterfeit + bank alone gave me 6$  (the second "play" of bank was worth 3$).  Just verifying this is an Androminion bug and not the way it actually works.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 08:38:42 pm »
0

How does counterfeit work with Bank and horde?

If I counterfeit a horde and buy duchy do I get 2 Golds or 0?

If I counterfeit a copper and play bank is my total 1 + 2 coppers + 4 from bank OR 1 plus 2 coppers plus 2 from bank (coppers are trashed and no longer in play)?

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but Androminion does it wrong, and gives me the golds, and counterfeit + bank alone gave me 6$  (the second "play" of bank was worth 3$).  Just verifying this is an Androminion bug and not the way it actually works.

0 Golds

1 + 2 + 2
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eHalcyon

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 08:39:39 pm »
+1

How does counterfeit work with Bank and horde?

If I counterfeit a horde and buy duchy do I get 2 Golds or 0?

If I counterfeit a copper and play bank is my total 1 + 2 coppers + 4 from bank OR 1 plus 2 coppers plus 2 from bank (coppers are trashed and no longer in play)?

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but Androminion does it wrong, and gives me the golds, and counterfeit + bank alone gave me 6$  (the second "play" of bank was worth 3$).  Just verifying this is an Androminion bug and not the way it actually works.

You get 0 Golds from Hoard, because it is trashed and no longer in play.

Counterfeit on Copper + Bank will give you 1 + 2 + 2.
If you Counterfeit + Bank (without trashing) it will be worth 1 + 2.
If you Counterfeit and trash the Bank, it will be worth 1 + 2 + 2.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 10:48:34 am »
0

You get 0 Golds from Hoard, because it is trashed and no longer in play.

Also, even if Counterfeit didn't trash Hoard, you would still only get one Gold, like with a Throne Roomed Highway.
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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 11:55:49 am »
0

Thanks for confirming my thoughts.  I'm wondering if throneroom highway is bugged on androminion as well.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Counterfeit and Horn of Plenty
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 11:57:02 am »
0

Thanks for confirming my thoughts.  I'm wondering if throneroom highway is bugged on androminion as well.

I don't think it is. Most of the bugs will be with DA cards.
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