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Author Topic: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results  (Read 81705 times)

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-Stef-

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #125 on: December 20, 2012, 05:00:26 pm »
+8

I just played my round 3 match against DWetzel, resulting in a 4-0 victory

Adventurer, Baron, Coppersmith, Explorer, Highway, Island, Moneylender, Quarry, Walled Village, Watchtower♦, and Young Witch
We started with what I considered the most interesting set. It has a sneakily powerful engine hidden in there and no fast way to end it for someone trying anything else. Walled Village/Watchtower for the draw, and in the meanwhile Young Witch, Baron, Moneylender and Island could all take cards away from your hand. Highway for some real power in the end. I started out with exactly this deck in mind, but was still quite clueless on what cards to get first. After a long thought I decided to just open Young Witch / Watchtower, because I really didn't want too many curses in my deck, I didn't want to lose to some island/explorer/BigMoney thing, and young witch would be good in my deck anyway.
The engine took a long time to kick in but I think it was always going to end like this.

Bishop, Crossroads, Cutpurse, Fishing Village, Ghost Ship, Pawn, Possession, Potion, Scheme, Throne Room, and Trader
Game 2 featured two cards that aren't that popular - Ghost Ship and Possession. He said he already disliked Ghost Ship before this game, and I'm pretty sure this game made it worse. We both opened Fishing Village/Cutpurse, and after that we played very similar decks for a while. The differences were only very subtle:
* we both traded an estate for 2 silver, but after that I kept my other two estates and started trashing coppers.
* he got more ships then I did (more money) but I got more schemes.
It seemed to go side by side for a long time, both played ghost ship every turn and making only marginal changes to our decks. But at some point I started drawing my whole deck and then it was over.

Council Room, Courtyard, Crossroads, Forge, Grand Market, Hoard, Ironworks, Jester, Shanty Town, and Smugglers
My plan here was to get coucilrooms first, then a forge, and then get a huge hand and start forging for grand markets. I was reasonably lucky in executing this plan, and he whiffed for several turns, so I decided to just rush provinces after one or two grand markets. Admitted he didn't have lady luck on his side this game, but I also think I had more focus in my play.

Cutpurse, Embassy, Fairgrounds, Fool's Gold, Grand Market, Harem, Navigator, Potion, Scrying Pool, Spy, and Trading Post
This set I wanted to both go for fools gold and build a real engine, and I somewhat refused to choose. After splitting the Fool's Golds he bought some embassies and I made a rather strange move of getting a Trading Post. It immediately looked like a big mistake, but hey, I just wrote this article about not going for provinces with fairgrounds on the table, so at least I had to believe it myself. But after that I think I made the right call on when to green (6 more turns investment, then 100% greening), got a bit lucky that he had quite some $7 hands, and probably he shouldn't have followed me on fairgrounds/duchies/harems at all, but just focus on province and/or gold. Anyway... 1 point difference and a pretty overwhelming 4-0.

Some really interesting crazy-like engine boards. I want sets like this all tournament long! :)
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michaeljb

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #126 on: December 20, 2012, 05:26:50 pm »
+4

Another match that went the distance!

Again, I did videos with running commentary. There are in the Tournament playlist on my channel now.

Player listed first in the score was the player with the first turn, bold was the winner.

Game 1: michaeljb 32 - 21 yaron
Minion looks like the key here, I open Spice Merchant/Chancellor, planning to buy a Salvager, then Minions, avoiding Treasures completely. Yaron opens Spice Merchant/Silver, later buying some Chancellors and some Walled Villages, eventually trashing Silver to his Spice Merchant. I think I draw better earlier, end up winning the Minions 6-4, and that's pretty much that.

Game 2: yaron 56 - 47 michaeljb
I open with a Fortune Teller, we both buy some Islands and later Great Halls, I buy some Golds and a Venture, and yaron buys a few Caches. Fortune Teller collided with Islands enough times to hurt, Cache turned out to be a good choice, and yaron takes this one.

Game 3: michaeljb 24 - 60 yaron
Fishing Village, Throne Room, Masquerade, Goons, Tactician. A key mistake I made here was wating too long to get a Tactician; I bought a Goons turn 4 and played it turn 5, but getting Tactician first probably would have been wise. Goons+Masquerade causes mind games to happen with every Goons play, and I think I held onto one junk card every time...I bought some Tunnels kind of late, they didn't do much. Yaron did better getting more Goons after the first, and ended up with a nice pile of Fishing Villages, Goons, Throne Rooms, and VP.

Game 4: michaeljb 58 - 41 yaron
Tactician/Tournament was the big winner here--no Attacks were in the Kingdom, no heavy trashing, and no great counters against discard attacks made Followers very strong. On turn 3, yaron drew $6 and bought Gold; turn 4 I drew $5 and bought Tactician. I'm glad I only drew $5 since it removed the choice, and I think Tactician was the right move. On my first Tactician turn, I buy the first Province; on my second, I win the Followers. Some oddities: I twice play Trusty Steed for Silvers, and twice bought 3 Duchies (definitely a first for me). Gardens were also there, which just meant more VP cards in the endgame; after I won Followers and Princess I don't think this game was terribly interesting. Tournament goes that way sometimes I suppose...

Game 5: yaron 75 - 56 michaeljb
Looks to me like BM+a few, I go for Oracle and Embassy...and it turns out Smithy, Mine, and Embassy are decent enough support for Duke. Yaron bought his first Duchy on turn 5 and never looked back.

Game 6: michaeljb 33 - 25 yaron
A really tense game featuring Vineyards, Alchemists, Wishing Wells, Markets, and Stables. Also I ignored Masquerade--apparently that's a thing I do in tournament games now. With the 5/2 I open Vault/Fool's Gold (only picking up one more FG through the game...) and yaron opens Market/nothing. He buys Potions fairly early on, while I spend more time picking up Markets and mainly Stables. My patience pays off as yaron can't really do anything to end the game before I pick up some Alchemists and Vineyards, while still generating enough coin for some Provinces.

Game 7: yaron 65 - 70 michaeljb
The big finish! We do quite divergent things here. Yaron basically goes for Haven+Baron (adding one Inn and one Warehouse), while I try to make Peddlers work with Baron, Hamlet, Warehouse and a Farming Village. I end up with a Venture and a couple more Golds, but yaron gets 2 more Platinums. It pretty much comes down to the draws of our last couple shuffles and dancing around the Penultimate Colony...yaron had a chance to go for it that would have given him the win, but followed PPR (for Colonies :P). He gets ahead, then picks up the 2nd to last Colony, and I'm saved when he draws a hand of all green.

Match result: michaeljb gains another upset victory, 4-3!

It was a great, tense series that was a lot of fun to be a part of.

PS in the videos you can really hear my laptop's fan going crazy, and for a couple of parts I'm leaning back in my chair pretty far, and you can't really hear me too well...so sorry about that to anyone who happens to watch it :P
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 06:03:23 pm by michaeljb »
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DWetzel

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #127 on: December 20, 2012, 06:32:16 pm »
+1

Well, my ass is still sore.  Thanks for the games Stef! 

The first two games (really, all four of them, but especially the first two) were exactly the kind of games you do not want to have against Stef -- long, drawn out, maybe-kinda-enginey-eventually games that were predestined to take forever and punish even the smallest mistakes.  I thought I had a chance to win game #4 but stalled out at just the wrong time (I think I should have maybe bought a couple Harems, or just Gold, instead of Fairgrounds earlier, as Stef noted to me after the game). 

I actually thought I played reasonably well, but there was just no stopping him today.  Is there an online betting site I can put some money on him at?
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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #128 on: December 20, 2012, 06:52:36 pm »
0

Well, my ass is still sore.  Thanks for the games Stef! 

The first two games (really, all four of them, but especially the first two) were exactly the kind of games you do not want to have against Stef -- long, drawn out, maybe-kinda-enginey-eventually games that were predestined to take forever and punish even the smallest mistakes.  I thought I had a chance to win game #4 but stalled out at just the wrong time (I think I should have maybe bought a couple Harems, or just Gold, instead of Fairgrounds earlier, as Stef noted to me after the game). 

I actually thought I played reasonably well, but there was just no stopping him today.  Is there an online betting site I can put some money on him at?

I'll hold your money.  Totally objective.  And trustworthy to boot!
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Robz888

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #129 on: December 20, 2012, 06:54:04 pm »
0

Well, my ass is still sore.  Thanks for the games Stef! 

The first two games (really, all four of them, but especially the first two) were exactly the kind of games you do not want to have against Stef -- long, drawn out, maybe-kinda-enginey-eventually games that were predestined to take forever and punish even the smallest mistakes.  I thought I had a chance to win game #4 but stalled out at just the wrong time (I think I should have maybe bought a couple Harems, or just Gold, instead of Fairgrounds earlier, as Stef noted to me after the game). 

I actually thought I played reasonably well, but there was just no stopping him today.  Is there an online betting site I can put some money on him at?

Rest assured, I will be studying your games. In fact maybe we need to have a private PM session, lol.
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DWetzel

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #130 on: December 20, 2012, 07:13:54 pm »
0

Well, my ass is still sore.  Thanks for the games Stef! 

The first two games (really, all four of them, but especially the first two) were exactly the kind of games you do not want to have against Stef -- long, drawn out, maybe-kinda-enginey-eventually games that were predestined to take forever and punish even the smallest mistakes.  I thought I had a chance to win game #4 but stalled out at just the wrong time (I think I should have maybe bought a couple Harems, or just Gold, instead of Fairgrounds earlier, as Stef noted to me after the game). 

I actually thought I played reasonably well, but there was just no stopping him today.  Is there an online betting site I can put some money on him at?

Rest assured, I will be studying your games. In fact maybe we need to have a private PM session, lol.

Feel free -- I think it's a little bit like asking the Sphinx though.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #131 on: December 20, 2012, 07:51:07 pm »
+1

Well, my ass is still sore.  Thanks for the games Stef! 

The first two games (really, all four of them, but especially the first two) were exactly the kind of games you do not want to have against Stef -- long, drawn out, maybe-kinda-enginey-eventually games that were predestined to take forever and punish even the smallest mistakes.  I thought I had a chance to win game #4 but stalled out at just the wrong time (I think I should have maybe bought a couple Harems, or just Gold, instead of Fairgrounds earlier, as Stef noted to me after the game). 

I actually thought I played reasonably well, but there was just no stopping him today.  Is there an online betting site I can put some money on him at?

Rest assured, I will be studying your games. In fact maybe we need to have a private PM session, lol.

Feel free -- I think it's a little bit like asking the Sphinx though.
Naw, SphinX is *my* next opponent.

DWetzel

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #132 on: December 20, 2012, 08:17:25 pm »
0

Well, my ass is still sore.  Thanks for the games Stef! 

The first two games (really, all four of them, but especially the first two) were exactly the kind of games you do not want to have against Stef -- long, drawn out, maybe-kinda-enginey-eventually games that were predestined to take forever and punish even the smallest mistakes.  I thought I had a chance to win game #4 but stalled out at just the wrong time (I think I should have maybe bought a couple Harems, or just Gold, instead of Fairgrounds earlier, as Stef noted to me after the game). 

I actually thought I played reasonably well, but there was just no stopping him today.  Is there an online betting site I can put some money on him at?

Rest assured, I will be studying your games. In fact maybe we need to have a private PM session, lol.

Feel free -- I think it's a little bit like asking the Sphinx though.
Naw, SphinX is *my* next opponent.

Nice, that's nice.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #133 on: December 20, 2012, 11:35:24 pm »
+1

Well, my ass is still sore.  Thanks for the games Stef! 

The first two games (really, all four of them, but especially the first two) were exactly the kind of games you do not want to have against Stef -- long, drawn out, maybe-kinda-enginey-eventually games that were predestined to take forever and punish even the smallest mistakes.  I thought I had a chance to win game #4 but stalled out at just the wrong time (I think I should have maybe bought a couple Harems, or just Gold, instead of Fairgrounds earlier, as Stef noted to me after the game). 

I actually thought I played reasonably well, but there was just no stopping him today.  Is there an online betting site I can put some money on him at?

Rest assured, I will be studying your games. In fact maybe we need to have a private PM session, lol.

Good luck Robz. I know you can do it!!!
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wesphys

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #134 on: December 20, 2012, 11:41:29 pm »
+2

Round 3: (11) dondon151 vs. (38) wesphys [4-1]

Thanks to dondon151 for a fun series of games, good sportsmanship and some nice chats after play.

Game 1: dondon151 73 - wesphys 43

A colony game.

Game 2: dondon151 28 - wesphys 72

Another colony game.

Game 3: dondon151 24 - wesphys 23

A gardens game in which I play the endgame badly.

Game 4: dondon151 36 - wesphys 17

A game in which my inability to play scrying pool is not masked by treasure maps.  :P

Game 5: dondon151 8 - wesphys 1

An 8-2 Grand Market split doesn't end well.
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dondon151

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #135 on: December 21, 2012, 12:02:11 am »
+3

(11) dondon151 wins the set against (38) wesphys, 4-1

Set rules: PCE off, official PC on, identical starting hands, wesphys gets first player in game 1 (higher location in bracket).
(I didn't mess up the match settings this time!)

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/20/game-20121220-192207-9189ff53.html
Baron, Bishop, Colony, Council Room, Farming Village, Farmland, Great Hall, Mandarin, Market, Platinum, Remake, and Treasury

dondon151 73 - 43 wesphys

I wasn't quite looking forward to my future rounds in the tournament because I start as player 2, and my win rate is 15% lower as player 2 than as player 1. So this kingdom looked really straightforward, and I knew that I would have to win on tactical superiority. We mostly mirrored in the earlygame until I bought Market/CR with with my first two $5+ hands and wesphys got Gold/Market. FV connected with CR the first chance I get and the momentum boost carried me through the rest of the game. I had to tread a little carefully in the endgame to make sure that wesphys didn't sneak out a win from under me.

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/20/game-20121220-193800-5bd32d76.html
Apothecary, Bridge, Cache, Colony, Fortune Teller, Noble Brigand, Platinum, Potion, Remodel, Throne Room, Transmute, Treasury, and Venture

dondon151 28 - 72 wesphys

Well, I just picked a bad strategy here. I was hoping for a Bridge megaturn with TR and a bunch of cantrips (Apothecary, Treasury). Remodel got rid of the Estates and I had hoped that Apothecary would plow through Coppers, but things never came together and I just floundered about doing nothing. If the Bridge engine can work here, I certainly executed it very poorly, although I felt that my draws didn't work out either. I also think that I got confused by Throne Room a couple of times because I would lose my place in the TR tree.

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/20/game-20121220-194346-0fbba66b.html
Forge, Gardens, Golem, Lookout, Nomad Camp, Potion, Salvager, Throne Room, Torturer, Witch, and Workshop

dondon151 24 - 23 wesphys

A mostly straightforward Gardens rush. I'm not sure if a Nomad Camp opening is preferable to double Workshop. wesphys dipped into Gardens first a little earlier than I would have liked, so I had no choice but to follow and we split Gardens 4-4. The endgame was interesting; the Gardens emptied after turn 7, and with half the stack of Workshops and all of the Estates remaining, I decided to beef up my deck with Silvers for a shuffle while wesphys started hitting the Workshops and Estates. I grabbed 2 Duchies on the next reshuffle, but wesphys unexpectedly grabs 1 as well, and he could have won this had he hammered the Estates harder instead of splitting his gains/buys on Estates and Workshops (though I still think that on average, an opponent wouldn't be able to get a Duchy).

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/20/game-20121220-200038-c117a381.html
Farmland, Ghost Ship, Horse Traders, Oasis, Potion, Scrying Pool, Shanty Town, Spy, Torturer, Trade Route, and Treasure Map

dondon151 36 - 17 wesphys

wesphys told me after the game that he wasn't good at playing with SP, so he ignored them in this game. Well, with Trade Route as a passable early trasher and the prospect of a Torturer chain, that proved to not be a good decision. He hit Treasure Maps relatively early and got 2 Provinces off the Golds, but my engine kicked in and I stifled him with repeated Ghost Ships and Torturers every turn, exacerbated by the fact that he couldn't topdeck anything good in response to Ghost Ship because SP would just discard it afterwards. Once the engine kicked in, I consolidated for a little bit and then closed out the game.

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/20/game-20121220-200656-437065fd.html
Black Market, Chapel, Colony, Festival, Forge, Grand Market, Hunting Party, Platinum, Potion, Royal Seal, Scout, Smugglers, and Transmute

dondon151 8 - 1 wesphys

A lot of powerful cards here made for a good board for player 1. I deliberated between opening Festival or HP and decided that the economy from Festival was preferable to HP's cycling (since cycling a Chapel is kind of lame, especially once everything gets trashed). This was more or less a mirror until wesphys bought a BM on turn 6, which he agreed was a mistake. On turn 7 he played BM instead of Chapel that could have trashed an Estate and 2 Coppers, leaving me with a trimmer deck. My Smugglers gained a lot of good stuff; I picked up a second Smugglers after my Chapel became useless, and I ended up winning both the HP and GM splits. With a lot of money, 9 buys, and 2 Smugglers to gain the last 2 HPs in the supply, I piledrove the Estates for a win.

Good games! wesphys and I had a nice chat afterwards as well.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 12:13:06 am by dondon151 »
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timchen

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #136 on: December 21, 2012, 12:57:04 am »
0

In game 5 it's already gg when wesphys drew his chapel turn 5... (admittedly his draw luck is among the better ones within those drawing chapel turn 5 so maybe there is still some chance) I dunno, maybe playing that BM instead of chapeling is out of desperate play?
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dondon151

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2012, 01:05:42 am »
0

The HP that he got can help him cycle back his Chapel faster, and my Chapel trashed 4 Coppers, so I don't think that the game was decided right then. Turn 5 Chapel is bad luck, but it's not quite as terrible in this circumstance.
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timchen

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #138 on: December 21, 2012, 01:56:39 am »
0

I guess you're right... your shuffle is among the worse ones when you draw chapel turn 3/4. There's probably a fair chance for him if he chapeled those 3 cards turn 7. It turned out that gold he bought instead was actually hurting him (which he should have noticed), as you had a very good chance of smuggling it at that point, and a slim deck can get even more use out of that gold.
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PitzerMike

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #139 on: December 21, 2012, 03:46:01 am »
+1

I just played my round 3 match against DWetzel, resulting in a 4-0 victory

I just checked all 4 logs and I have to admit I'm blown away! :o
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DWetzel

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #140 on: December 21, 2012, 10:38:09 am »
+1

I just played my round 3 match against DWetzel, resulting in a 4-0 victory

I just checked all 4 logs and I have to admit I'm blown away! :o

Think how I felt!
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Robz888

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #141 on: December 22, 2012, 06:27:11 pm »
+4

Stef and I are playing tomorrow.

I actually beat Stef in a random match today. I assume it was a long con to lure me into a false sense of security.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #142 on: December 22, 2012, 06:38:10 pm »
+1

Stef and I are playing tomorrow.

I actually beat Stef in a random match today. I assume it was a long con to lure me into a false sense of security.

I am eagerly anticipating this. I know you can do it RobZ!!!!
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Robz888

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #143 on: December 23, 2012, 03:31:04 pm »
+8

-Stef- defeats Robz888 4-2 in round 4 of the tournament. I knew I would have to play my very best to even have a chance of toppling the highest-ranked Dominion player in the world; unfortunately, I did not execute on that plan, I'm sorry to say. My gameplay improved after Game 3, but by then I really hand no chance of winning 4 straight games against a master.

Game 1: -Stef- 36-22 Robz888
Log: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/23/game-20121223-100619-70079c7b.html
Video:

This looks to me like a fairly weak board, though Hunting Party is always strong enough-ish. I decide to prefer a Trading Post into Venture plan, since there's no terminal silver to supplement the HP deck. Well, he grabs Trade Route and 8 Hunting Parties, and has a massively powerful draw deck. I don't even get a lot of Ventures, just 2. I don't think there's any world where Venture beats HP here, so definitely a poor strategic choice for me. This was an easy win.

Game 2: Robz888 7-22 -Stef-
Log: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/23/game-20121223-101932-c9a7d2ad.html
Video:

A Margrave draw engine looks like the way to go, and University appears to be the best way to get there. We both open Potion, but he gets a Silver and I try out Herbalist. "Never buy Herbalist with less than $11," he warns me, in the famous words of Marin. But isn't putting Potion back with Herbalist and doubling up on Universities a good thing? I thought it was, and it works! But I guess it kills my tempo, because I don't actually play Margrave until Turn 9, and I get stuck with a lot of $3 hands, whereas he can buy Farming Villages like crazy. He is drawing his whole deck in no time, and I limp on to a frustrating loss. I would love to know how people feel about the Herbalist/Potion opening (in my video, I am so proud of it!), but I can't argue with the yucky results.

Game 3 Robz888 35-67 -Stef-
Log: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/23/game-20121223-104548-db20444e.html
Video:

And now, I take leave of my senses. Why open Baron here? Why? Why did I do it? A question for the ages... anyway, this is Minions in a Colony game, with Library/Watchtower/Native Village action. His Nomad Camp opening gets him a Turn 2 Minion. What does Baron get me? 20 minutes of nothing, that's what. I actually think Stef probably misplayed somewhere--maybe Minion chasing was weak here on account of Colonies?--because this game takes forever, and by the end I'm not in horrible shape. Also, I play and set aside all the wrong things, and I buy Caravan. Seriously, this was the worst board for Caravan ever. You would be forgiven for wondering if I had ever played Dominion before.

Game 4: Robz888 59-51 -Stef-
Log: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/23/game-20121223-110742-8dcdfb55.html
Video:

This is an interesting one. We pursue completely different strategies. He opens with Develop, and goes for Laboratories and Mining Villages. I open Baron/Woodcutter, because all I want for Christmas is Gardens. Jester is hanging around; he never gets it, but it probably would have been worth it, yes? My Baron misses the Estate, but his Develop misses the Estate too, which as he points out, is an early-game disaster. I start picking up Traders. I don't know if Trader from the beginning would have been better. He denies me a few Gardens and is in good shape to get Provinces, so I start to worry. The Estates are gone, but I have no third-pile plan. We start Duchy dancing (I do manage a Province), he stalls, and my Gardens are worth a lot, so I take the win. Still, if the last few turns had gone differently, he could have taken the win here. I'm not sure, ultimately, which plan was better. But I'm never buying Baron again, I swear.

Game 5: -Stef- 32-41 Robz888
Log: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/23/game-20121223-111528-6925d362.html
Video:

I am glad to finally see a Big Money game, where I have a comparative advantage (maybe). The spectre of Possessed Masquerades loom over this board, but otherwise it's pretty tame. He opens Masquerade/Silver, which does confuse me a bit. Courtyard is available, and I know Courtyard to be a superior BM card, if there are no Cursing attacks to watch out for. I questionably open Remake/Courtyard (I have an ooohshiny problem with Remake these days), but I don't end up regretting it, thankfully. He hits $7 a lot, which is pretty bad luck, but hey, that's what Courtyard is for! And with 2 Masqs, his deck is too slim. Eventually I can pass him that Remake, and I make sure to set up my last few turns with Courtyard so that there's no way he can win, since he can't tie me from first position. I think this is the only game where I clearly outplayed him, though he certainly got unlucky, on top of that.

Game 6: -Stef- 34-25 Robz888
Log: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/23/game-20121223-112848-67d6b9a5.html
Video:

Minion/Conspirator here. The only +buy is Salvager. Cellar and Duchess and Outpost are present, as are Vineyards. Nothing else is really in play. We both open Salvager/Silver, but he gets a lot luckier than me, and hits $5 on every turn, starting with Turn 3. So there's literally nothing I can do to win the Minion war (I lose it 4-6). My one potentially saving grace is having more Conspirators early (although eventually he gets 5 of them, too), and stopping to pick up an Outpost after the Minions are gone. He gets some truly disastrous draws at the very end, allowing me to pull closer, but in reality there was nothing I could have done after like Turn 5, probably. Still, it's remarkable how efficiently he can set up a killer engine in every single game.

So, that's that. I wish I had put up more of a fight in the early games (ugh, Game 3, ugh), but oh well. Congrats to -Stef- --who is by no accident one of the best Dominion players in the world--and good luck in the rest of the tournament!
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-Stef-

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #144 on: December 23, 2012, 06:10:17 pm »
+1

Robz, Thanks for playing the games, writing the report, and making the video's. I just watched them and it's kinda fun to see the other side of the table. Especially when you're surprised by what I buy, like the hunting party/duchy turn.

On game 1 - yeah, hunting party is really strong and also very reliable. I can imagine going trading post over trade route (especially with your draws), but you really need hunting parties with it. If you would have bought 2 hunting parties on turn 5/6 in stead of venture+gold... you may be in very good shape. You won't get to double buys but maybe you can just go single prov too soon too reliable for me to do anything about it.

Game 2 - herbalist looks cute but it's actually a really really bad card. It can be good in philosopher's stone decks, but that's about it. If you would have pulled of the double university on turn 3/4 (in stead of 4/5) maybe that would have been enough to justify. But when even the best case scenario is uncertain... Problem here is that you don't want to get a lot of universities. They don't draw any cards, so as a village they somewhat fail. In decks like these, I much rather have 2 universities and play them a lot, then have a lot of universities and play them less frequent. Add another spammable drawer (laboratory, rabble, smithy, caravan...) and it's a completely different story. That said, you did get quite unlucky with the margraves, which was way bigger then the silver-herbalist difference.

Game 3 - Yeah I probably got a bit overly enthusiastic about the minions. Maybe I should have shifted to some native village/library thing sooner. But hey, once you start getting minions, getting more is so very good for your deck... usually I just run out the pile.

Game 4 - I still like my plan, if only I can get an estate with my first develop. But now it just fails. I'm convinced I still made some mistakes later on too, but develop is so complicated that's almost a certainty every game.

Game 5 - This one I really misplay. But I think Masq/Silver actually is the correct opening. My *huge* mistake however is to get a second masquerade in stead of a courtyard. I really don't know what I was thinking there. But maybe WW can comment on this, it's sort of his kind of set.

Game 6 - Really sorry to end your tournament on a game where your draws just make it impossible to win. I could barely stack the cards better myself on my first couple of turns.


All in all it was a fun series to play. I got sloppy after getting the 3-0 lead, especially the double masq thing is something I'm not proud of. But with the luck on game 6 it didn't get punished, fortunately. Woohoo, onto the next round :)
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #145 on: December 23, 2012, 06:29:11 pm »
0

Game 5 - This one I really misplay. But I think Masq/Silver actually is the correct opening. My *huge* mistake however is to get a second masquerade in stead of a courtyard. I really don't know what I was thinking there. But maybe WW can comment on this, it's sort of his kind of set.

I think Masq/Silver opening then Courtyard(s) is the right way to go. The Masq gives a little trashing without sacrificing tempo, but the core of the strategy should be Courtyard-BM. As I say in my Terminal draw BM article: "you should prefer to open Island, Jack, or Masquerade ahead of Courtyard, delaying your first Courtyard to turn 3-4. And if you open Jack or Masquerade, you also want to delay your second Courtyard, since you already have that extra terminal."
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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #146 on: December 24, 2012, 05:20:40 pm »
+3

Thoughts on Robz888 vs Stef:
Game 1: I am not sure of trade route; in general, I tend to doubt it can be worth it. On the other hand, Hunting party is pretty mandatory on this kind of board. Thing is, even if venture is a little better than hunting party for you - and I really don't think that's the case anyway - HP is MUCH better for your opponent, and letting him get them unopposed is... not so good. So what to pair with it? Possible ideas to my mind are Nothing, Trading post, trade route, secret chamber. I tend to think just money might be it, but none of those would surprise me too much.

Game 2: I disagree with Stef about Herbalist's general usefulness, but he's totally right here. Best case is you get the second university quick, but... well, that's not all that important. Eventually you need money, so the silver is. Biggest point is that you don't need a thousand action cards, and the extra university in the long run is not so good - basically turns into a necropolis. You'd much prefer village. Not to mention that herbalist is another terminal which, after first turn or two, doesn't really do anything for you. You don't need the buy, you don't need the effect.... And you say you're unlucky to not play margrave until turn 9, Robz, but if you think about it, you get your university on 3 or 4, play it on the turn 5 or 6 reshuffle, and have to wait for the next shuffle to get it, AND you're anti-cycling the potion... this is not too far off the average case. Now, you could get lucky and spike $5 off of copper/herbalist, but it's very unlikely. Overall, margrave as the only draw card is not so good for engines, I'm not even 100% that you want to go engine over money, though probably you do. But so many universities is definitely unnecessary.

3: This is... tricky. My gut is that you actually want to have native village and draw-to-X as the main bit, but you need buys at some point, and minion works well with such things... I don't know what you do actually. But my guess is that you want lots of native villages quick, whatever you do. Eh, I'm really not sure.

4: I think Stef overbuys labs here. I am not really sure what to do here, because Trader/Gardens is normally very good, and baron is pretty good with gardens, but they don't work so well together, and noble brigand COULD have been absolutely enormous against trader. Which makes me think that you want to do Baron/Gardens, but then you can quite possibly lose to some engine-y kind of thing? Maybe baron into the lab kind of hing? There's this sort of rock-paper-scissors kind of thing going on.

Game 5: Yeah, I *think* HME is right, and you want to do masq into courtyard, but I'm not sure that straight courtyard isn't better. It's probably close, and really hard to tell because it's close and doesn't simulate well. But I don't like remake here, and I REALLY don't like double masq.

6: Not much to say, except that maybe Robz should have tried bailing to vineyards sooner? He's almost certainly just lost either way here though. Good luck for Stef, who unsurprisingly plays well enough to slam the door closed.

mith

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #147 on: December 27, 2012, 09:04:28 pm »
+2

Round 4: mith 4-1 sm

Game 1: mith 73-59 sm
Game 2: sm 57-42 mith
Game 3: mith 47-43 sm
Game 4: sm 3-15 mith
Game 5: sm 35-43 mith

Game 1: Baron/Warehouse with Tactician for big turns, on a Colony board. I opted for two Barons, which got me into the Plats a little quicker (double on turn 10) despite a sluggish start (don't play the Warehouse turn 4 to avoid my Tactician missing the shuffle entirely, but then it waits until turn 7 anyway). We both had double Colony turns, and then with him holding an early Province I decide to buy three on turn 16 rather than double Colony again, as he has played his Tactician and might be able to double up again to win. He's short anyway, and then I have to sweat out the endgame before finally nabbing the last two Colonys on my extra turn.

Game 2: I opted for Baron here over Potion, hoping for an early Province (check) to pair with my Tournaments and hurt his early Alchemist engine building efforts. They were slow to connect though, and he jumped out to a big lead on Provinces that I couldn't overcome. Maybe there's an engine to be built here with Envoy/Worker's Village? Anyway, I floundered and bought a bunch of Hoards which I don't think helped matters.

Game 3: Double-Jack, mostly, though he transitioned into Upgrades and started buying Harems, while I grabbed a Gold and went for Provinces. After falling behind to the Harems, I made it a 4-2 split with the Provinces to take a small lead, then realized that there were an odd number of Duchies left and, sure enough, lost out on that split too. I broke PPR, and he was never able to get back to 8 before I ran out the Estates.

Game 4: All the other games ended up being little tactical greening endgames, but this one I did just have the better engine. Potion/Herbalist beats Potion/Silver with a bunch of 2+P offerings, and I went heavy on the Scrying Pools first, allowing me to cycle to my Ghost Ships more often. I triggered the level 2 Cities with a University, and then I was off and running (well, for two turns, as it was pretty easy to end the game on piles).

Game 5: I was sure I was going to lose this most of the way, after his Young Witch struck early for the only Curse before turn 18. I think my build is better here, loading up on Ventures first, but his Council Room is scary. I break PPR again turn 17 with an extra Duchy, figuring he's unlikely to hit $13 even with Council Room at this point, then totally fail with a $2 on my next turn. I guess he didn't look at the score though, as he was only 5 behind with Remodel-Gold in hand, and I finished it off after that.

Thanks for the series, sm!
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mith

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #148 on: December 27, 2012, 09:05:26 pm »
0

(Next up... -Stef-? Eep. Imma go practice more now, k?)
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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #149 on: December 27, 2012, 09:58:38 pm »
+4

(Next up... -Stef-? Eep. Imma go practice more now, k?)

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