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Author Topic: Witch Division: Bracket and Results  (Read 41645 times)

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jonts26

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Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« on: December 02, 2012, 08:33:42 pm »
+1

Results for the Witch Division bracket are to be posted in this thread.

For each series post the overall winner and the number of games each player won. Please try to grab each game log from isotropic before moving on.

Here is the bracket for the Witch Division of the 2012 DominionStrategy.com championships: http://dominionstrategy.challonge.com/2012witch


Full rules can be found here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5686.0

Each round, you are responsible for finding your opponent and scheduling a game by the end of the week. You may mutually agree to any rules you wish to play by. If you cannot agree you must play with the default rules as follows: veto mode off, identical starting hands on, official point counter on, fully random sets, point counter extension allowed.

The first player in the first game is decided by whichever player is 'higher' in the Challonge bracket. For round one, this means the higher seed will play first. To accomplish this, begin a game in the tournament lobby and select the player who is to play first. After that game, you may both move to the Secret Chamber lobby (but don't exit Isotropic!) and the player to play first will be the loser of the previous game.

If you have trouble scheduling, please message me and I will attempt to work it out.

Have fun and good luck!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 04:06:46 pm by theory »
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Qvist

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 12:26:16 am »
0

I'm happy if I can reach Round 3 because then I probably play against Marin  :'(

Piemaster

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 02:52:09 am »
+1

I'm happy if I can reach Round 3 because then I probably play against Marin  :'(

Nah, I'm gonna knock him out in round 2 :P
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Qvist

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 04:03:29 am »
0

I'm happy if I can reach Round 3 because then I probably play against Marin  :'(

Nah, I'm gonna knock him out in round 2 :P

I beg you for doing so.

lespeutere

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 04:05:07 am »
0

I'm happy if I can reach Round 3 because then I probably play against Marin  :'(

Nah, I'm gonna knock him out in round 2 :P

I beg you for doing so.
Leaving you with the classic dilemma what to fear more: the top seed player/team or the guy(s) who has(/ve) proven to be able to beat them?
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2012, 05:22:18 am »
0

I am cheering for Khanh93 in this bracket!!
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 06:11:54 pm »
0

First match in this division! dnkywin wins 4-2 against mharris717, but the match was very close (the each of the first five games was won by the first player).

Game 1: dnkywin 38, mharris717 24
Pretty similar strategies at first: Feast -> Double Witch, but his first Witch doesn't show up until after his second shuffle, so he spends most of the game playing catch-up (plus first player advantage).
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-143912-b2654ed3.html

Game 2: mharris717 6, dnkywin 4
IGG game where I have a 2/5 opening to his 4/3, but I fail to hit $5 a couple of times and he is able to snag the win off the last Border Village. (In hindsight, I shouldn't have picked up the penultimate Border Village).
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-143029-403ac827.html

Game 3: dnkywin 30, mharris717 18
We both open chapel, but for some reason he gets a council room instead of a torturer and doesn't pick up much money early on; I win the province split 5-3.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-142515-93cd5dc0.html

Game 4: mharris717 42, dnkywin 23
My worst game of the match. I somehow think I can pull off a golden deck with Steward and Bishop as the only trashers and a power $5 (Vault) on the board, and I don't pick up a bishop until turn 12. Oh well.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-144538-3692c26e.html

Game 5: dnkywin 35, mharris717 24
A fairly standard Masquerade game. I pick up Silvers instead of Highways, and I think that's what made the difference.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-145459-d195585e.html

Game 6: dnkywin 79, mharris717 43
Familiar game with no trashers. I win the curse split 6-4, then continue to slow him down by picking up 4 Ghost Ships along the way for an easy (but reaaalllllly long) win.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-150726-7e21c9fc.html
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 07:59:34 pm by dnkywin »
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liopoil

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 09:10:13 pm »
+10

You all don't have to worry about playing Marin. I'm playing him round one.  ;) ;) ;) ;)
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knaacku

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 11:42:02 pm »
+1

knaacku vs. AdamH (knaacku wins 4-2)

1. We forgot to get the log from game 1 but we will add it tomorrow AdamH won in a nail bitter.

2: AdamH 42 knaacku 31
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-185231-532295ed.html

3: knaacku 51 AdamH 48
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-190708-269b2f0f.html

4: knaacku 28 AdamH 12
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-191712-e02b3dd3.html

5: knaacku 41 AdamH 29
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-193246-1a5c65e9.html

6: TIE 34/34
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-194308-9379e96f.html

7: knaacku 31 AdamH 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-200114-e92cf3ab.html

Also, I want to say thanks to Adam for being a really nice guy.  It was a pleasure playing with him.  He plans on getting into YouTube videos, so subscribe to him!
Youtube channel:
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 11:58:30 pm »
0

Congrats Knaacku. The 43 seed over the 22 seed. I believe that counts as our first decent upset.
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AdamH

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2012, 12:15:54 am »
+1

I'll grab the log for the first game tomorrow morning when the daily tar comes out. For now, here's the video:

YouTube will probably take a while to process it, and it took over a half hour to upload. I have no idea if the quality will be acceptable either. This is my first time for all of this stuff. I will upload the rest when I get a chance, but it will probably be Wednesday. I'm looking for exactly what I did wrong (and beleive me, I did plenty wrong!)

And my opponent played extremely well. Watch out for him, this guy is dangerous! Marin, good luck with round 4 :-P
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AdamH

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2012, 08:10:11 am »
0

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Kyrion

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2012, 12:35:20 pm »
0

Umptious beats Kyrion in the eighth and final game, after going 3-3 (plus a draw):

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-092749-69b96cca.html
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dethwing

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2012, 04:03:25 pm »
0

SphinX defeated me 4-1. I remembered 3 of the game logs, which I gave to him, but forgot the others. Anyone know if you can retrieve them after the game?
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SphinX

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2012, 04:05:41 pm »
0

Game 1 log: SphinX 56 dethwing 33
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-121613-5b2c9b10.html
Game 2 log: SphinX 31 dethwing 20
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-122353-a0ea0e61.html
Game 3 log: SphinX ? dethwing ? (dethwing won)
Missing log
Game 4 log: SphinX 56 dethwing 43
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-125103-e9531f38.html
Game 5 log: SphinX ? dethwing ? (SphinX won)
Missing log

How do I get this tar file with the daily logs?

Ah I think I got it: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/all.tar.bz2
Should be up tomorrow.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 04:09:33 pm by SphinX »
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greatexpectations

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 04:12:17 pm »
0

How do I get this tar file with the daily logs?

there are details on how to find the game you need here. i wouldn't worry about it for just one game though. i would encourage everyone to do their best to get each log, but if there is no dispute over the match outcome you would only need the log if you wanted to offer commentary on the game.
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NewandForgiven

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2012, 04:22:34 pm »
+1

Watno against NewandForgiven (4-0)

Game log 1
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-121838-f1dcf6a3.html

Game log 2
(I failed to get the link, but have a screenshot of the final result and a text copy of the log on my PC)

Game log 3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-125707-77afe680.html

Game log 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-131457-47daf6b0.html

Ah well.... Hopefully see you guys again next year
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Watno

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2012, 04:37:17 pm »
+2

Log 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-124620-10b92a2d.html

Some Comments on the games:

1: Kings Court madness. I think I get a bit too many Oases early on, then heavily invest into quarries, which net me 4 KCs in turn 12, which then allow me to closely get from 13 points behind to 2 ahead and 3-pile with 1 buy and $0 left, which took me some minutes to figure out.

2: W(alled)V torturer with colonies, my opponent gets an early lead, but I manage to get my engine going better than him in mid-game and even though i keep investing in duchies and estates instead of pushing 3 piles, he doesn't manage to catch up in turn.

3: Really close game with Vault.  mix in expand, and we to 1 estate and 2 provinces left with the two of us tied. He buys the penultimate province, which I think was a mistake, and doesn't manage to pick up the other one before i get it and the remaining estate

4: Goons and Inns with no real engine available. I go for Vineyards in addition and the game is too slow for us to really get into provinces, so those win it for me.

Thx for the matches, NewandForgive, i think it was a lot closer than the overall score suggests.
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Fumanchu

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2012, 05:20:49 pm »
0

LowPants won 4-2
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khanh93

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2012, 07:40:04 pm »
0

Titandrake won 4-1
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Titandrake

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2012, 07:49:22 pm »
+1

Titandrake wins 4-1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-155156-eafe804c.html
IGG. I open 5/2 and go first, so yeah. Some fun Develop shenanigans here though. Buy Nomad Camp, Develop it into IGG + Develop, Develop that into Harem + Nomad Comp! khanh93 pointed out that you could develop Nomad Camp -> IGG + develop, buy Nomad Camp, and repeat, but no one did so.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-160457-de41cf5a.html
Another IGG game. I miss $5 on both turns 3/4, so I Embargo IGG to stop the snowball (albeit in a bad spot), then Embargo Duke when I see khanh93 is going for Duchies. Should probably have been Embargoed Duchy in retrospect. Try an amazing comeback attempt with a Xroads-Nobles engine (I'm surprised it actually worked as well as it did), but didn't quite make it.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-162241-f032776d.html
Really weird game. I try Remake -> Villages + Pirate Ships. Game completely breaks down, ends super close after ~30 turns with 6 VP Fairgrounds and everything.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-162736-008a9359.html
THIRD IGG game of the set. This time khanh93 gets the 5/2 and goes first. Except I get Woodcutter-Gardens as a fall back plan, so I'm not in nearly as much hurt. A bit of a shame: switch around a few cards and it turns into a very intricate engine game.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-163535-8f5235c5.html
Chapel, Tournaments, Nobles, and Bridge. Considered Bridge-Gardens, but it's way too slow here imo. The snowball starts rolling and it doesn't stop for anything.

The slogs in the middle part of the match are some of the weirdest + closest games of Dominion I've ever played. Thanks for the match!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 08:00:31 pm by Titandrake »
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greatexpectations

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2012, 10:07:09 pm »
0

greatexpectations over warrior297 4-2.

i took a 3-0 lead on warrior but then warrior turned it up a notch. took 2 straight and had me on the back foot for most of the last one. thanks for the set warrior!

game 1 ge 39 - 30 warrior297 - warrior plays textbook ghost ship/BM. i counter with a simple menagerie engine, thinning with lookout/traderoute.
game 2 warrior297 40 - 43 ge - inn, jesters, and harems. basically a mirror, and i think my inns made the difference.
game 3 warrior297 29 - 41 ge - witch game where we both open 5/2. i play BM and warrior cycles with mining village and throne room.
game 4 warrior 38 - 26 ge - i aim for margrave/draw engine and warrior aims for minions...but we embargo each other. warrior takes a quick lead as i try to build an engine and buys a clever midgame embargo to block me from catching up via duchies.
game 5 ge 30 - 37 warrior297 - warrior plays textbook double jack. i try out an engine, but i'm short on either buys or coin in the key turns and jack just kept going.
game 6 ge 43 - 32 warrior297 - this one got ugly. possession loomed large but silk roads was there as a counter. warrior builds the draw engine but ignores possession and i turn garbage into silk roads and skate by when warriors engine stalls in the final turns.
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 12:43:01 am »
+1

Quote
Congrats Knaacku. The 43 seed over the 22 seed. I believe that counts as our first decent upset.

And then LowPants (49) over Fumanchu (16).  Yet another decent upset.  This must be the upset division.  Marin falls in round 1? ;-)
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2012, 01:11:39 am »
+1

Yet another decent upset.  This must be the upset division.  Marin almost loses a game in round 1? ;-)

fyp imo
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2012, 01:27:42 am »
0

Quote
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-205946-d04782e3.html
He makes a mistake getting a silver over a workshop, and generally favors coin over actions too much given the negative impact they will have on a reliability of drawing and finding conspirators.  Workshop not only gets my engine running better, but will let me cheat on PPR in the future with surplus VP acquisitions.

Quote
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-211044-1f1616ca.html
I plan on going Duke at the beginning, but I never know when to stop pushing econ and make my intentions known.  He focuses more on making a draw engine, while I focus my buys on getting more silvers so I can continue greening longer.

Quote
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-212727-6378f452.html
We open the same, but I get $4/$4 on turn 3 and 4 and that puts me too far behind, even though I make the correct transition into vineyards and he's IMNSHO too slow on doing so.  (He didn't seem to pick up on the ironworks signal.)  It's possible I should not have grabbed the province when I did since that seemed to just accelerate the end of the game.  I also probably should have gotten another spice merchant to cycle to the ironworks harder.  Last but not least, I probably should have  just given up on GMs and done the IW/potion/vineyard rush, but I haven't studied the sim forum as much as I should have.

Quote
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-213308-9a41040b.html
I reflexively grab jack of all trades when I see Hoard/Duke on the board, then realize it's a colony game. :(  I try to transition out of a million silvers and curse him, but then I buy a Hoard anyway?  Ugh.  Bad bad bad.  Buy a $7p familiar and don't hit $9 in forever.  He rushes provs which is usually wrong on a colony board, but almost surely correct here, since jack just doesn't stall.  Deserved the loss.

Quote
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-214747-dca49295.html
I prioritize highways and pawn, he buys too many shanties and silvers.  I even screw up turn 11 and randomly decline to play a baron (because I didn't realize I had another action from a shanty earlier in the turn) passing on another HP for no reason, but still win the HP split 7-3.

Quote
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-215607-a00f9c1a.html
I figure his open is correct in raw power, but since I'm going second, I don't want to follow him into cutpurse, and decide try to get myself into a good HP/remodel copper->? engine.  It seems to work even though I had many $2 turns where I use my buy on nothing.

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 02:39:36 am »
+1

I just played my series against Lord Hedgie.
Here's the link for the really tense and close series.
Watch here:

If you want to spoil yourself or prefer logs and comments:

0-1 The first game was a Young Witch / Tunnel game in which I had some horrible draws, then needed to break PPR and lost 32-35
Link: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-120744-5cf27c5a.html
1-1 Governor with Remake, Hamlet, Fishing Village and Caravan. I trashed faster which gave me an advantage but still in the end it was really close and I had to prolong the game. He buys the last Province in hoping for the win but loses 32-33
Link: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-122256-55c3402d.html
1-2 Weak Colony board with strong cards in the Black Market which I couldn't get. He could buy a Tactician from it which basically gave him the win. Another time I had the impression that I got really bad shuffles. He wins 46-59
Link: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-123814-28ce5446.html
2-2 Goons mega engine with Menagerie, Warehouse, Mining Village and Masquerade. This the first clear game. He resigns after several turns with multiple Goons. I have no log.
3-2 Another Colony game where I use Pawns and Wishing Well to get Peddlers and then try to pile out Cities and Peddlers for an Unstoppable City Stack. It still got close as he greened early and I couldn't end the game because of Penultimate Colony Rule. I could win this 77-57. I have no log.
3-3 Basically this is an Ironworks/Gardens game. First, I'm not good in IW/Gardens mirror matches. Second there is Swindler on the board which scared me a lot. I go still for IW/Gardens with a (in my opinion) better deck and indeed one of my Ironworks and what's more important later one of my Gardens. I think I should have gone for Gardens earlier, but he didn't want for Gardens, so I thought it might have been better to wait 1-2 turns more. I decided to run the Cellar pile as third pile out. In my last turn I was pretty confident with my lead although he got a Province. He can end the game with gaining the last Gardens. He didn't even got an Estate in the last turn with his Silver. But still he won this 13-14. I'm pretty sure that I misplayed this, especially on that one bad Cellar discard. Please, I need some insights on that game.
Link: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-123814-28ce5446.html
3-4 I think this is the only game where I got outplayed. I feared the possible Torturer engine, so I picked up Lighthouses and wanted to go for an Festival/Envoy engine. He indeed picked up a Torturer. But in the end only went for a Envoy+BM / Torturer/BM game. Again in my opinion I got some really bad draws for my Envoy. With some very early Provinces, I had to switch to a Torturer engine if want a comeback. In retrospect, a switch to Noble Brigand+BM might have even been better. But I couldn't catch up. I lose 32-45 and am out of the tournament.
Link: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-133153-dd4a69c8.html

Thanks for the games LordHedgie. You played very well, good luck in the tournament.

lespeutere

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2012, 03:35:42 am »
0

Quote
Congrats Knaacku. The 43 seed over the 22 seed. I believe that counts as our first decent upset.

And then LowPants (49) over Fumanchu (16).  Yet another decent upset.  This must be the upset division.  Marin falls in round 1? ;-)

I apparently played Fumanchu's brother yesterday who promised me his brother would beat me. Hardly probable for both of us to win our divisions but now his prediction's already gone wrong.
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Lekkit

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 03:55:37 am »
+1

So many upsets. I like it.

Also, does this mean that this isn't really the toughest division or that the lower seeded players are really good?
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Ozle

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2012, 04:32:35 am »
+3

I am cheering for Khanh93 in this bracket!!

Oh no, my pick went out in the first round!!

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!
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Schneau

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2012, 07:11:38 am »
+4

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AdamH

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2012, 09:10:10 am »
+1

I've finished uploading the videos I made of my match with knaacku, and made a playlist out of them. Here's the link:



If you have any comments about the games or the videos themselves (quality, commentary, etc.) I would love to hear them, but PLEASE direct them to the YouTube video comments OR this thread:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5732.0

I will not be scouring this thread for comments on the videos. Thanks for all the comments on the videos/thread so far (OMG WW Subscribed to my channel! AAAAHH!!!!). If the response is positive enough, I may be tempted to make more videos of non-tournament games (where I might lighten up a little).
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2012, 10:56:02 am »
0

Mm.. maybe a bit soon, but: I can't seem to reach Redwoods. His profile says he was last active on january 5th this year, so it is very well possible that I won't be able to reach him with a pm on this forum. Does the organization have another way of messaging him, maybe?
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SirPeebles

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2012, 08:28:40 pm »
0

Peebles beats Powerman 4-3

Game 1:  Peebles 29, Powerman 54
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-163647-818f5504.html
We both open Steward/Young Witch.  I draw my Steward with 4 Coppers, opt to trash.  Then I draw CCEEE.  My Young Witch and Steward collide turn 6, bleh.  We both use Farming Villages to bypass the curses.  I'm so far behind that I make an effort at Duchy/Duke, but it's just not enough.  Ends on piles:  Curses, Duchies, Estates.

Game 2: Peebles 38, Powerman 39
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-164853-103dfeb1.html
We both open Potion for Apothecary.  My plan is to use Apothecary to scrape together enough for some King's Court, and to use Apothecary together with Scout(!) to draw in Nobles to King's Court.  My opponent opened with Chancellor, which was a nice KC target for money.  Close game in the end, particularly with presence of Nobles and Island as Alt VP.  Oh yeah, I King's Court a Scout in turn 18, drawing two Nobles!  Repeatedly I curse myself for not buying a Council Room for the +buy,

Game 3:  Peebles 44, Powerman 23
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-165802-e7836638.html
A Witch game.  I grab a bunch of Shanty Towns plus a Lookout.  Powerman grabs some Bishops, which trashes enough of my Coppers that I pick up a Venture.

Game 4: Peebles 31, Powerman 15
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-170420-aa04d47e.html
We both open Nothing/Upgrade.  My plan was to use a Council Room to buy a Forge and then sync them up with a Farming Village to Forge down a huge hand, which worked beautifully in turn 9.  Eventually I Upgrade the Forge into a Province

Game 5:  Peebles 30, Powerman 20
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-170916-bde4f4bd.html
Pretty much an IGG rush.  We both open Lighthouse/IGG.  The only deviation is my turn 3 Bureaucrat.

Game 6:  Peebles -2, Powerman 14
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-171750-9dbb1f98.html
Largely a Torturer chain match, although Powerman dips into Wharves before Torturer.  Presumably for the spares buys to purchase engine pieces faster.  Also, Peddlers are around to soak up spare buys.  I'm taken a bit off guard when the game ends on piles: Torturers, Mining Villages, and Curses.  I had my eyes on the former two, but forgot about Curses.  Oh well, Powerman's last turn he snatches up the only green cards, both a Province and Colony!

Game 7:  Peebles 63, Powerman 54
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-172504-ffa4922e.html
Powerman went to Minions pretty early, but I skipped them (aside from a smuggled one) since I didn't feel they were fast enough on a Colony board which was so lacking in support.  Turn 5 I smuggle a Gold, Turn 6 I trash 3 Coppers to a Mint, and Turn 7 I manage to buy a Platinum, which I proceed to Mint as often as possible.  It was close, but my Expand gave me some needed flexibility in the end game to clinch the series.

Thanks Powerman!  Those were some nice matches.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 09:39:43 pm by SirPeebles »
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WrathOfGlod

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2012, 02:45:51 am »
0

WrathOfGlod (Michael Harris) 4-1 over Michaelf7
Game 1: Michael Harris 16, Michaelf7 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-230114-8ebb110a.html
On 4-3 Steward Familiar is probably best but at 5-2 we both go for the IGG rush,
He wins the curse split 6-4 but I grab a goons and a courtyard to his province and have a relatively clean win

Game 2: Michael Harris 189, Michaelf7 20
Goons,Chapel where his chapel misses shuffle and I hit 6 early, not much to say

Game 3: Michael Harris 32, Michaelf7 44
His Masquerade-BM is too fast for me as I mess around with labs and bazaars

Game 4: Michael Harris 32, Michaelf7 22
Interesting game, I open fishing village-ht and hit double mountebank while he goes fishing village baron and hits 6 choosing to buy a goons,  I grab a bunch of wishing wells and hit a double goons turn to seal the game

Game 5: Michael Harris 37, Michaelf7 25
He leaves bm unopposed for me and focuses on wharf-bm with some crossroads/bm support, I eventually pull a tactician from the bm and set up a nice little engine where I play all my wharves on my tact turn and so draw my deck on both of the turns.

Thanks to Michaelf7 for the matches
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Piemaster

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2012, 03:42:57 am »
+3

I'm not picking on anybody in particular here, but I've read most of the reports in all four threads and it's amazing how many people attribute all their game wins to better strategic choices and all their game losses to luck.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2012, 04:06:01 am »
0

I'm not picking on anybody in particular here, but I've read most of the reports in all four threads and it's amazing how many people attribute all their game wins to better strategic choices and all their game losses to luck.

I feel that in most games, I did get lucky with my wins. Although, I do feel that I outplayed my opponent in one game.
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2012, 05:39:37 am »
0

Mm.. maybe a bit soon, but: I can't seem to reach Redwoods. His profile says he was last active on january 5th this year, so it is very well possible that I won't be able to reach him with a pm on this forum. Does the organization have another way of messaging him, maybe?

I still haven't reached Redwoods. What should I do?
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theory

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2012, 10:13:51 am »
0

Sent him an email.
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philosophyguy

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2012, 10:21:27 am »
0

I'm not picking on anybody in particular here, but I've read most of the reports in all four threads and it's amazing how many people attribute all their game wins to better strategic choices and all their game losses to luck.

I understand the comment, but it's actually more likely than would first appear. Usually, competitive strategies are less than 10% superior—typical splits in win rates are 48-42 or 51-46. So, both sides can reasonably claim that their strategy would have won any given game given a slightly different shuffle luck.
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Powerman

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2012, 05:35:52 pm »
+2

Peebles beats Powerman 4-3

Game 1:  Peebles 29, Powerman 54
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-163647-818f5504.html
We both open Steward/Young Witch.  I draw my Steward with 4 Coppers, opt to trash.  Then I draw CCEEE.  My Young Witch and Steward collide turn 6, bleh.  We both use Farming Villages to bypass the curses.  I'm so far behind that I make an effort at Duchy/Duke, but it's just not enough.  Ends on piles:  Curses, Duchies, Estates.

I knew this game was over the second turn 4 was done, the question was how brutal it would be.  Early luck >> late game luck.

Quote
Game 2: Peebles 38, Powerman 39
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-164853-103dfeb1.html
We both open Potion for Apothecary.  My plan is to use Apothecary to scrape together enough for some King's Court, and to use Apothecary together with Scout(!) to draw in Nobles to King's Court.  My opponent opened with Chancellor, which was a nice KC target for money.  Close game in the end, particularly with presence of Nobles and Island as Alt VP.  Oh yeah, I King's Court a Scout in turn 18, drawing two Nobles!  Repeatedly I curse myself for not buying a Council Room for the +buy,

I really like chancellor here for increased deck cycling.  Both of us probably should have used council room... neither of us did.  I do like my play of KC-Island to set aside three greens though!

Quote
Game 3:  Peebles 44, Powerman 23
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-165802-e7836638.html
A Witch game.  I grab a bunch of Shanty Towns plus a Lookout.  Powerman grabs some Bishops, which trashes enough of my Coppers that I pick up a Venture.

This game was over when I couldn't hit 5 for a witch until turn 6.  Maybe, lookout is not so good here as an opener?  But I think, on average, it will hit a 5 on turn 3/4/5.  Then I tried to dip into Bishops and hoped his deck clogged, but I couldn't really avoid the 3 piling here.

Quote
Game 4: Peebles 31, Powerman 15
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-170420-aa04d47e.html
We both open Nothing/Upgrade.  My plan was to use a Council Room to buy a Forge and then sync them up with a Farming Village to Forge down a huge hand, which worked beautifully in turn 9.  Eventually I Upgrade the Forge into a Province

I think CR-big money might have honestly been the best strategy here?  Anyway, my Upgrade misses every reshuffle possible, my CR always draws multiple farming villages dead, and his Forge is a really good buy, with it being upgradeable later on.

Quote
Game 5:  Peebles 30, Powerman 20
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-170916-bde4f4bd.html
Pretty much an IGG rush.  We both open Lighthouse/IGG.  The only deviation is my turn 3 Bureaucrat.

Both of us do pretty much the same thing, end up with about the same deck composition.  He hits 5 a lot, I hit 4 a lot, oh well.

Quote
Game 6:  Peebles -2, Powerman 14
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-171750-9dbb1f98.html
Largely a Torturer chain match, although Powerman dips into Wharves before Torturer.  Presumably for the spares buys to purchase engine pieces faster.  Also, Peddlers are around to soak up spare buys.  I'm taken a bit off guard when the game ends on piles: Torturers, Mining Villages, and Curses.  I had my eyes on the former two, but forgot about Curses.  Oh well, Powerman's last turn he snatches up the only green cards, both a Province and Colony!

I didn't actually see mining villages at first so was planning on going Wharf-BM.  Then I saw them, so I switched into torturers.  But wharves are a pretty good counter to torturer anyway, so I think it might be stronger overall?  Plus their +buy was huge.

Quote
Game 7:  Peebles 63, Powerman 54
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-172504-ffa4922e.html
Powerman went to Minions pretty early, but I skipped them (aside from a smuggled one) since I didn't feel they were fast enough on a Colony board which was so lacking in support.  Turn 5 I smuggle a Gold, Turn 6 I trash 3 Coppers to a Mint, and Turn 7 I manage to buy a Platinum, which I proceed to Mint as often as possible.  It was close, but my Expand gave me some needed flexibility in the end game to clinch the series.

Thanks Powerman!  Those were some nice matches.

I think Masq-BM is the best strategy on the board here, but as player 2 you never want a masq-bm mirror.  So I try to go half-heartedly into minions, as they are weaker here, and it works out alright in the beginning.  I build up a lead for almost the whole time, but my deck is seriously low on cash so I fail to hit 11 on turns 15,16,17,18.  He breaks PCR on turn 18, I whiff turn 18, he wins on 19.  Oh well.
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olneyce

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2012, 07:16:24 pm »
+2

Round 1: olneyce (1 seed) vs. blitzcat (64 seed)

olneyce wins 4-0.

Game 1: olneyce 45 – 14 blitzcat
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-152531-c46a602e.html
Key cards: Bridge, Bazaar, Forge, Courtyard, Envoy
We both opened Bazaar/Courtyard, but after that blitzcat started buying Bridges, while I tried to build toward a Forge as quickly as possible.  Once I culled my deck, I was playing triple and quadruple Bridge hands by turn 12.

Game 2: blitzcat 27 - 29 olneyce
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-153417-ee413955.html
Key cards: Trading Post, Militia, Treasure Map
He went for maps and it almost worked.  I think he made a mistake in not going for Havens to supplement the maps.  Meanwhile, I futzed around for a while but basically played Militia-Big-Money.  I bought a Trading Post on turn 4, which was probably a mistake.  That gave me three terminals out of 14 cards – and it convinced me to buy Walled Villages to supplement them.  All of which was probably a distraction.  In the end I got 4 Provinces and a Duchy in 20 turns without getting attacked much.  Which is not very good.

Game 3: blitzcat 40 - 65 olneyce
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-154343-9641fafc.html
Key cards: Trader, Gardens
I went for the Trader/Gardens semi-rush.  All the other cards were terrible, so there wasn’t much else to do.  Blitzcat fought me a bit for the Gardens but I still got 6 of them.  The game ended on piles with Silver, Gardens, and Harem running out.

Game 4: blitzcat 16 - 36 olneyce
Key cards: Mining Village, Torturer, Scheme, Develop, Menagerie
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-160004-5eb62e07.html
Menagerie is a nice counter to Torturer and I kind of considered trying to build a straight Menagerie engine.  But my early hands I had the turns to let me build a Torturer one. So that's what I did.  Develop was moderately useful here, both to clean out the Estates (and Curses if I got hit by a Torturer), but also to top-deck valuable $3 cards for the next turn.  Scheme+Torturer when you can draw the whole deck is pretty devastating. 

Thanks to blitzcat for the games!
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 07:21:57 pm »
+1

Hey Guys, going forward it might start getting a little confusing in here, especially if people start rounds early, so when you submit your results make sure to include the round, participants, and final score at the beginning. Thanks.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 11:09:47 pm »
+1

ROUND 1
popsofctown over grep (pops over Man in the Middle) 4-1

MitM vs pops Dec 6 2012:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-184522-914cc9f5.html 35:39 0:1

Baron, Margrave, and Hamlet all have the +buy to support a Gardens strategy and all three support the Gardens strategy in other ways (gaining Estates becomes ok, discard your Gardens to your opponent's Margrave, discard green cards to Hamlet). 
Grep opted to go that route, but it was a road I chose not to follow him on.  Baron was rather unappealing to me, as it's spiking power only leads to Gold, which is inferior to Margrave on this board anyway.  Also, though Estates and Gardens are both easy piles for the rush, there is no great third pile to empty. 

The rush was still scary and MitM was ahead by plenty of points partway through the game.  I bought a few blocking Gardens, though I'm rather unsure whether that helped or hurt. 
tl;dr: Margrave BM over Baron-Hamlet-Gardens-Margrave

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-185838-930bafad.html 28:35 0:2

This game was mostly a mirror, with both players following the general rule Province > Border Village > Minion > 1 Salvager > Silver
The exception to that was my purchase of a Smugglers.  Smugglers is a player 2 oriented card, and if I were in Man in the Middle's position I probably also would have declined to purchase Smugglers, so in that sense, even the Smugglers purchase was "mirrored".
Man in the Middle did purchase a Tribute where I purchased a Duchy.  The Tribute hit a lot better than I expected, but it seemed to me to end up being worth about 3 VP to him so I don't think it made a huge difference.
My Smugglers hit a Minion on its first play, which was a very helpful swing in my favor.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-191252-1b451b7e.html 28:41 0:3

IMO, Man in the Middle's opening here was a blunder.  I rank Warehouse as a better way of dealing with dead cards than Lookout in all but the slimmest of engines.  The presence of Inn, and powerful 5$ actions to shuffle in with it, is just even more incentive to skip the +0$ trasher.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-192211-007ca6e6.html 34:27 1:3

This is a tournament board.  Man in the Middle opened Silver/ Steward instead of my Tournament/Steward, and his opening may have very well been better for reasons I am not aware of.  Perhaps by opening up better, he lined Tournament with Province first.  I lined one up with a Followers to try to come back, but there were simply not many Provinces left, and not enough time for Followers to do its thing with Trusty Steed cycling through MitM's deck rapidly, and his Market padding his lead with Great Halls while my Treasuries cowered from the VP I needed to catch up.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-193408-9df23bca.html -:+ 1:4

Both of us aimed to win the Torturer war this game, with no trashers on the board we both recognized that the winner of the Torturer war would win the game.  MitM opened Farming Villager/Silver, an opening I am a bit skeptical of in spite of the immense value of villages in a Torturer game.  I opened Courtyard/Silver for some fast early cycling and a strong BM/dead draw deck to use while I transitioned from that into a Torturer engine.

By my reckoning MitM seems like he might have gotten a few fewer Village/Torturer lineups than he deserved.

MitM went for Golems, which he conceded after the game is simply too slow for a Torturer fight, outclassed by the engine tools that lack a difficult potion in the cost.

GGs MitM, and I appreciate the game and the arrangement of the time to play.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:12:35 pm by popsofctown »
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Piemaster

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2012, 03:50:56 am »
+3

Round 1 - Piemaster (35) beat Kirian (30) 4-2

This match was dubbed a battle for the right to lose to Marin in Round 2.  It was a bugger to schedule the match because of timezone differences and in the end we both had to play at a silly time, 00:30 at night for Kirian and 5:30 in the morning for me.  Still, we managed to finish the six-gamer in one session so we don't have the headache of trying to arrange another time to resume.


Game 1:

Explorer, Golem, Harvest, Margrave, Minion, Mountebank, Pawn, Potion, Secret Chamber, Swindler, and Worker's Village
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-214812-82d56902.html

In this game I got extremely lucky, but through bad, bordering on awful play by me and tight play by Kirian I managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.  We both opened Silver/Swindler and took a Mountebank by the second shuffle.  At least I thought we did.  I can only blame the fact that it was 5:30 in the morning that I apparently actually took a Margrave.  Not awful, but still, not a great start.  I lucksacked in a big way hitting his MB with my Swindler while he whiffed into an Estate with his.  This should have been game over.  We both steadily built up pseudo-engines around Workers Village, Mountebank, Margrave, Minion and Pawn, but Kirian did it faster and better, fueled by an early Gold and protected by a Secret Chamber, which he always seemed to have just at the right time.  I got an early jump on Provinces but two were hit by Swindlers meaning Kirian suddenly just needed the last one to split them and win on Duchies.  I got a bad hand, he didn't and suddenly Kirian was 1-0 up in the most unlikely of circumstances.

Kirian - 28 (1),
Piemaster - 21 (0)



Game 2:

Golem, Hoard, Horse Traders, Hunting Party, Market, Outpost, Pearl Diver, Potion, Trading Post, Treasury, and Workshop
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-215833-13693a7b.html

This was a Hunting Party mirror and we both opened HP/PD off a 5/2 split.  We then diverged on strategy, I took a TP to get rid of the Estates and Coppers to make my HPs more efficient, while Kirian decided that would be too slow and concentrated solely on HPs and treasure.  The speed of the HPs allowed both of us to start greening on turn 8/9, but I got there first, aided by first turn advantage and arguably my thinner deck through Trading Post (thoughts?), bringing the match back to 1-1.

Kirian - 24 (1)
Piemaster - 33 (1)



Game 3

Chapel, Coppersmith, Crossroads, Duke, Forge, Great Hall, Remodel, Talisman, Upgrade, and Witch
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-221605-003333f9.html

We both opened Silver/Chapel and were then frustrated by the shuffler in different ways.  My Chapel missed the second reshuffle, while Kirian had good luck with his Chapel but was unable to buy a Witch until turn 6.  We both double-Witched and burned through the Curses, but between Chapel, Upgrade (me) and Remodel (Kirian) most of them didn't stick around long.  Kirian built up a nice Great Hall/Crossroads engine while I concentrated more on money and picked up an early Province.  But when Kirian started dipping into Duchies, I realised I couldn't outrace him on Provinces, so I had to join him in the Dukeathon.  On Turn 19, with the Duchies split 3-3, I critically managed to Forge a Duchy and a curse into another Duchy and then buy the last one, giving me a crucial 4-3 split.  We then started to burn through the Dukes, but critically Kirian didn't have a Forge.  Although he got ahead on Dukes, eventually his deck ran out of steam and he was forced to buy Estates and Great Halls on several turns.  With the Dukes sitting at 3-3, and Curses and Duchies already out, I bought the last Great Hall to end the game on 3 piles.

Kirian - 22 (1)
Piemaster - 29 (2)



Game 4

Alchemist, Coppersmith, Cutpurse, Embargo, Hamlet, Loan, Market, Mining Village, Potion, Spice Merchant, and Vault
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-223408-fa055970.html

We both opened with Silver/Potion, and then picked up a Mining Village and a Spice Merchant.  Crucially Kirian's Potion gravitated to the bottom of his deck on his first reshuffle, meaning I was able to get ahead in Alchemists and win the split 6-4.  Ultimately this made the difference between being able to draw our deck every turn versus not and Kirian was never able to catch up once I started buying up the Provinces.

Kirian - 28 (1)
Piemaster - 33 (3)



Game 5

Baron, City, Courtyard, Farming Village, Feast, Library, Potion, Scheme, Silk Road, Trade Route, and Transmute
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-224249-7e760df0.html

Staring into the abyss at 3-1 down it was do or die for the higher ranked player.  This was the first game in which we actually went for different openings and strategies.  Kirian opened Scheme/Baron, going for a Silk Road rush, while I went for a more Vanilla Silver/Silver into Library BM.  Ultimately Kirian's strategy proved to be more sound and he ran out a comfortable winner.  I am not the best Silk Road player in the world and was playing second, so I decided to take the low variance strategy and hoped his Barons and Estates wouldn't find love too often.  This was probably a mistake as by now Kirian was clearly getting frustrated by a combination of bad shuffle luck, a late night and a crying baby so I should have matched his strategy and hoped he made a mistake.  Alas though, it was 3-2 and he was right back in the match.

Kirian - 65 (2)
Piemaster - 54 (3)



Game 6

Black Market, Courtyard, Forge, Island, Menagerie, Merchant Ship, Moneylender, Possession, Potion, Treasury, and Witch
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/06/game-20121206-225341-b9cee662.html

I opened Moneylender/Silver, while Kirian opted for Moneylender/Black Market, hoping to hit one of the strong power cards in there early.  Unfortunately for Kirian I managed two Witches on the first reshuffle while he couldn't manage any.  As so often happens in Dominion, things snowballed from there.  Off the back of a Witch, I managed an early Gold, which I parlayed into an early Forge.  Kirian kept on fishing with Black Market, but the power cards had all drifted to the bottom of the side deck and he was unable to find the ammunition to match my Forge-fueled trashing and greening.  By the time he finally pulled out Ambassador and Kings Court, the game was effectively over.  My deck had stalled, but with the help of 3 Forges I was able to burn through the Province pile and ultimately seal a comfortable win.

Kirian - 4 (2)
Piemaster - 31 (4)



I was delighted to win the right to lose gloriously in round 2.  Well played Kirian, thanks for six hard-fought games.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 06:53:33 am by Piemaster »
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Kirian

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 10:39:14 am »
0

I was delighted to win the right to lose gloriously in round 2.

Ha!  True enough, and well-fought.  Some quick thoughts:

Game 1: This was just awful for both of us!  Such a slog.

Game 2: The more I look at this, the more I think TP was the right move.  I nearly grabbed it on T1, then thought, no, wait, HP stack will be faster, and with Hoard there's no need for a terminal.  I think taking the Province on T8(?) would have been a better move, but would have slowed me down enough for you to catch that up.

Game 3: Forge was the key here.  Being able to pull off the double-Duchy meant I went from a winning battle to a losing battle in one turn.

Game 4: The T5 Potion was bad, but it was actually Turn 12 that was worse.  Not only did having Potion on the very bottom deny me buying a fifth Alchemist, it also disrupted my stack.  If Potion had been two cards earlier, this game would have ended differently, but such is Dominion!  I'm thinking Loan would have boosted either of us.

Game 5: I think the Baron/SR strategy here was just far more powerful than you thought--in fact I went for it specifically because it was "immune" to shuffle luck.  My T3 Baron doesn't connect, but that actually doesn't matter; SR wants the extra Estate anyway, and it makes Baron collision that much more likely.  I was, however, quite lucky to get four SRs in two turns.

Game 6: I'm wondering if I should have gone ahead and taken Thief with that first BM play... but not getting a Witch in the second shuffle, as you say, was the real key problem.  Perhaps half my play here was desperation moves.

Great series!  I was out of practice, but this was a good set of games.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2012, 11:25:40 am »
0

I just need one upset to face Wandering Winder!
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boloni

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2012, 03:48:36 pm »
0

I won against Tasman1414:

boloni 4-3 Tasman1414
boloni 33:21 Tasman1414 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-111003-8d2f587d.html
boloni 47:24 Tasman1414 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-112622-3b868a3c.html
boloni 34:25 Tasman1414 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-113156-822f4585.html
Tasman1414 61:44 boloni http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-114221-228a4db6.html
Tasman1414 31:17 boloni http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-114803-532d3da8.html
Tasman1414 42:34 boloni http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-120056-a43ebb0e.html
boloni 46:21 Tasman1414 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-121909-23b1769b.html

In the first game we both played mostly BM with one Woodcutter and some Explorers. I got lucky and was able to buy gold in round 4, 5 and 7.

The second game was black market+tactician agains Familiars and Laboratories. We both used stewards to trash. I made a big mistake when I played all my money with the black-market on turn 11 and had no card left to discard with my second tactician. Because of that Tasman1414 was able to clog up my deck with curses and buy some provinces. But I found a tournament and a bishop in the black-market and made a good comeback.

I have no more time to write something about the other games.

Thanks for the games Tasman1414!
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randomname

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2012, 10:02:34 pm »
0

I've been playing my match against gorney, and I was up 3-0, and then he disappeared from isotropic. Sorry, gorney, if something came up, and I'd like to continue our match, but in the mean time I'll post the three game logs of our games so far.

Round 1 - randomname 3 - gorney 0

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-181255-6896fd62.html
randomname 33, gorney -1
It was a game with city, mountebank, and goons. I got the 5-2 split for a mountebank. I think I'd chalk this victory up to luck, mostly.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-182130-b0e06580.html
randomname 28, gorney 27
masquerade big money game with a few other cards. the only reason I won is cause of the one curse I gave him with mountebank.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-182822-e4a2977a.html
randomname 34, gorney 26
another game where i played masquerade big money. gorney opened 5-2, so was pretty much forced to buy a market.

Anyway, I sent gorney a message asking him where he went. It's been a half hour now, so I assume he isn't coming back anytime soon. Unfortunately, due to the huge time zone difference, it's gonna be really hard to find another time to finish the match before the deadline. I'm open to it, though. Thanks for those games.
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heatthespurs

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2012, 04:42:51 am »
0

heatthespurs 4-2 Emeric (move your body)

Game 1
heatthespurs 32:30 Emeric
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-235834-c03bcd12.html

A mirror Embassies-BM game which I think my extra Navigator did help a bit. But overall this kind of game is luck-driven and I manage to narrowly get this one.


Game 2
heatthespurs 47:15 Emeric
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-000942-ff30a575.html

A Wharf game with good support in haggler, farming village, throne room, horse trader and steward... well basically every other cards can be useful too. Some interesting decision to make in the first few rounds on how to build up the deck. I was able to link up the TR with Wharf first and does able to keep snowballing into a victory. Not as "mirror" as the first game, but I feel luck still play a large part in it.


Game 3
heatthespurs 25:37 Emeric
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-001712-21fc438b.html

Another mirror game with Vault as the key card. Emeric bought a Mine which give him some extra economy boost, and eventually a victory. Up to this point all games are fast-game and ends in 15 turns.


Game 4
heatthespurs 3:(resign) Emeric
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-002655-17f3fcc1.html

First game that we adopt an entire different strategy. It is Torturers+Hamlets vs Scrying Pools + Loan. I think SP is a pretty decent counter to Torturer discarding, though the fact that all decent actions that SP need cost 5 seriously make SP too slow to setup. Adding Festival and Stable make the Torturer engine run very smoothly.


Game 5
heatthespurs 36:47 Emeric
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-003333-3c89d42d.html

A very weak board. Talisman+Mining Village was my plan which I have never tried before. Emeric goes for Explorer+BM which is pretty reasonable given the weak board. At last Emeric manage to win despite having a dead Chapel in his deck (never used)


Game 6
heatthespurs 51:30 Emeric
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-004450-3bd9a9ff.html

The most interesting game. Hamlet/Menagerie/Merchant Ships was my plan. Emeric goes for a very interesting strategy that use P-Stone, with Hamlet buying extra Copper and Cache gaining extra copper that make his deck very thick. My engine work slightly faster than his and I was building some lead mid-game. But it is extremely unfortunately for him to have 3 P-Stone draw together, near the deck of this deck, without a plus buy. Otherwise, he might be able to catch up as his P-stone worth $8 by the end of the game. Very interesting strategy. And impressive too!

Overall I think luck play a very large part in the series. Thanks for the game Emeric and I really enjoy that!
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jhkokst

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2012, 10:34:33 am »
0

I can't get ahold of Wittyhowlard to play this series.  I've messaged him via the forum twice, no response.  Whats the best action to take?
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2012, 12:24:30 pm »
0

I can't get ahold of Wittyhowlard to play this series.  I've messaged him via the forum twice, no response.  Whats the best action to take?

I will send a message, though at this point it is likely he will have to forfeit.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2012, 03:03:17 pm »
0

I've been playing my match against gorney, and I was up 3-0, and then he disappeared from isotropic. Sorry, gorney, if something came up, and I'd like to continue our match, but in the mean time I'll post the three game logs of our games so far.

Round 1 - randomname 3 - gorney 0

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-181255-6896fd62.html
randomname 33, gorney -1
It was a game with city, mountebank, and goons. I got the 5-2 split for a mountebank. I think I'd chalk this victory up to luck, mostly.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-182130-b0e06580.html
randomname 28, gorney 27
masquerade big money game with a few other cards. the only reason I won is cause of the one curse I gave him with mountebank.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/07/game-20121207-182822-e4a2977a.html
randomname 34, gorney 26
another game where i played masquerade big money. gorney opened 5-2, so was pretty much forced to buy a market.

Anyway, I sent gorney a message asking him where he went. It's been a half hour now, so I assume he isn't coming back anytime soon. Unfortunately, due to the huge time zone difference, it's gonna be really hard to find another time to finish the match before the deadline. I'm open to it, though. Thanks for those games.
Did you and gorney mutually agree not to use identical starting hands?  Identical starting hands is the default rule for this tournament (95% sure it doesn't invalidate your matches, but it might be nice for poor gorney if he gets at least one game with forced identical opening hands)
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randomname

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2012, 03:33:50 pm »
0

I actually didn't remember that. My bad. But gorney requested all three of the games, so I guess he didn't know either. Anyway, at this point, since he hasn't responded to my message or that post, I am assuming he is forfeiting.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 03:35:50 pm by randomname »
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2012, 04:54:48 pm »
0

randomname advances over gorney, 3 games to 0.
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KC-KC-Scout-Scout-Scout

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2012, 07:31:41 pm »
0

The last game had such an interesting Kingdom that I submitted it to the Kingdom contest.

Fun times Varsinor, I clearly have a lot to learn.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2012, 09:01:37 pm »
+2

Anyone find it ironic that omnomnom is facing TheMunch?
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2012, 09:51:20 pm »
+1

Redwoods forfeits. Dub4 advances.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2012, 01:38:49 am »
0

Sorry for the holding up the bracket.  I defeated Hatrick 4-0

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-214917-63d74d34.html

This was a "no green cards" achievement.  I had 1st player, got perfect shuffle luck, and ended on piles on turn 16 with goons engine fueled 184 points.  My apologies Hat!

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-220413-47ddbe55.html
Chapel + Quarry + Black Market = very tight fun deck that was able to keep buying multiple components AND provinces.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-221923-e3175873.html
A very close game.  Hat knew what to do with universities and wharves - and won the split due to a nice $5 turn 3 hand.  He might have been able to pull out a win if he had been paying attention to the score.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/08/game-20121208-223154-36a439d4.html
Mistakes were made on both sides.  He should have ignored cities, I should have ignored alchemists.  Both got ultimate remake.
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2012, 04:27:10 am »
0

Redwoods forfeits. Dub4 advances.

Thanks
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LordGoon

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2012, 10:10:51 am »
0

4-3 to me against Whitecrow in an extraordinarily close nail-biting match.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-052302-4078f1b6.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-054024-94fc4f55.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-055232-c3e2dec9.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-061132-760e1b34.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-062644-15c08894.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-064300-e77b8d76.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-070037-6f056003.html
The jaw dropping moment of the match was in this last one: On the second last turn, Whitecrow plays out his Kings Courts, Cities and Horse Traders... To only end up with $32 - $1 short of being able to buy all 3 Colonies and finish/win the game. I *just* scrape through with the victory.

Thanks for the game Whitecrow.
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Marin

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Piemaster

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2012, 11:23:25 am »
+3

Congrats jefhw for winning a game.  It's probably more than I'm going to do :)
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TheMunch

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2012, 11:56:57 am »
0

I just need one upset to face Wandering Winder!

You almost didn't need to have another upset.  Just lost to nomnomnom in a very close 4-3 series (I'm sure he'll be posting results soon).
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2012, 11:59:34 am »
0

Congrats jefhw for winning a game.  It's probably more than I'm going to do :)

On an engine board to boot!
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nomnomnom

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2012, 12:20:20 pm »
0

Round 1
nomnomnom 4 : 3 TheMunch

We played with point tracker, identical starting hands and no veto mode.

nomnomnom 56 : 70 TheMunch
TheMunch gets multiple Platinums and I start greening a little too early. So his 4:1 lead in Platinums gets him the victory.

nomnomnom 55 : 40 TheMunch
A Fool's Gold game with Councilroom support. My two Councilrooms to his one make the difference.

nomnomnom 14 : 4 TheMunch
A game with Torturer and Worker's village. TheMunch gets a little bit ahead after a few turns but can not really lock me down. At some point my Torturer/Village density is high enough and I can secure my second win.

nomnomnom 30 : 37 TheMunch
TheMunch plays Masquerade-BM with a couple Bazaars whereas I try to get fancy with university to get something going with Bazaars and Hagglers. Of course that is too slow and there is no way for me to come back.

nomnomnom 9 : 3 TheMunch
Quarry, Wharf and Mining Village are on the board. We both start with Quarry/Silver but TheMunch is unlucky and gets 4/4 on the second shuffle. Thats already the deciding factor I think besides my frist turn advantage. In the end I get 7 of the Wharfs and 7 of the Villages and win after three-piling.

nomnomnom 24 : 26 TheMunch
Watchtower/Hamlet engine with Young Witch for us both. I can cycle through my deck a bit better but have very little buying power. TheMunch has a couple of Golds because of an early Hoard. My last turn I can end the game in a draw but since TheMunch just played a lot of money the turn before I try to go for the win. That did not work as TheMunch wins on his next turn.

nomnomnom 59 : 53 TheMunch
Again a Torturer engine for me. This time with Bazaar. TheMunch ignores Torturers and builds a deck with Bazaars, Wharfs and Nobles. He gets a nice lead in points but I can come back with a double Colony turn. His deck is quite resilient to my Torturers though and it is close up till the end when I can exploit my first turn advantage and eek out a win.

Thanks to TheMunch for the games. It was much closer than I wanted it to be.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 12:29:52 pm by nomnomnom »
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shraeye

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2012, 12:43:26 pm »
0

Anyone find it ironic that omnomnom is facing TheMunch?
Very contrasting styles of eating there.  Many small noms for one, and one decisive Munch for the other.

I wonder if their play will reflect this...
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TheMunch

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2012, 12:43:57 pm »
0

Good game to you too, NomNomNom.  I didn't expect it to be as close as it was!
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sffc

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2012, 03:57:19 pm »
+2

Below are the results for sffc and benjigab.  We played with the official point counter, no veto mode, and identical starting hands.

Game 1: benjigab: 42 points, 19 turns to sffc: 41 points, 18 turns
Benjigab played Workshop/Gardens with some Hamlets, and I played textbook Council Room/Big Money.  We both ignored the Scrying Pools (there was no trashing), and the game was too short for me to build up to Colonies.  It was a very close game (a Buzz Beater), but the Gardens strategy ended up winning on piles on turn 19.

Game 2: sffc: 48 points, 22 turns to benjigab: 21 points, 21 turns
We essentially played mirror Golem/Scheme with Militia as the token Action.  Besides lucky draws with the Golem on my part and an unlucky click on Benjigab's part, I think what made my deck stronger than Benjigab's in this game was that I went for more money before buying Potion and Scheme on turns 5 and 6, while Benjigab took the dive early and purchased Potion and Scheme on turns 3 and 4.

Game 3: benjigab: 30 points, 16 turns to sffc: 28 points, 15 turns
This was a fast game involving strong non-terminal $5's, and we had a 5/2 opening.  Benjigab opened Apprentice/nothing (there were no $2's) and I opened Mandarin/Stables/nothing.  My strategy involved using Stables for the deep draw and Mandarin for coin and smoothing of my deck.  I picked up two Stables, and also an Apprentice.  Benjigab ran an Apprentice-heavy strategy, trashing all of his Estates and a Copper as well as higher-value cards toward the endgame.  I purchased the penultimate Province with the PPR on my side, but Benjigab pulled off the 2-point win with a Duchy followed by a Province on turn 16.  (In the next hand, I had Apprentice/Peddler.)  This game could have gone either way.

Game 4: sffc: 46 points, 25 turns to benjigab: 28 points, 24 turns
This was our only Curse game, with Young Witch and Black Market as bane.  We both opened Young Witch/Black Market.  The Black Market got me an Embassy on turn 4 and Benjigab a Wharf on turn 7.  I was fortunate that my terminals didn't collide very much in the early game, and that I had Black Market on Benjigab's first Young Witch, while Benjigab's YWitch and BM collided twice.  I pretty much played Big Money/Embassy once I got the Embassy out of Black Market deck, while Benjigab played Highway and ended up winning the Curse split 6/4.  I ended up winning in 25 turns by 18 points.

Game 5: benjigab: 21 points, 26 turns to sffc: 26 points, 26 turns
The key cards here were IGG, Embassy, Ambassador, and Fool's Gold.  We had a 5/2 opening, so we both opened IGG/Fool's Gold.  Benjigab played straight IGG with a few Ambassadors.  I remember reading in the IGG article on Dominion Strategy that when there are cards that interfere with the IGG/Curse balance (like Witches or Ambassador), that IGG is not a strong strategy, so during midgame I didn't buy any more IGGs and instead went for Embassy/Fool's Gold with a couple of Ambassadors to mess up the curse balance.  I also picked up a Moneylender on turn 3 to help thin my deck.  The game was pretty much over by turn 20; we Duchy danced for a little bit, and I ended the game by purchasing the last IGG on turn 26.

Game 6: benjigab: 16 points, 14 turns to sffc: 11 points, 13 turns
The key cards here were Wharf, Festival, University, and Conspirator.  We both opened Potion/Loan, and we played mirror up until about turn 7.  I had the unfortunate draw of Potion/Copper/Estate/Estate/Estate with Wharf and University on turn 6, while Benjigab was able to pick up a second University.  I decided to pass up additional Universities, while Benjigab ended up with 3 of them by the end of the game.  Benjigab's Universities allowed him to end the game on piles (Wharf, Conspirator, and Festival) in a well-played megaturn on turn 14.

Game 7: sffc: 27 points, 14 turns to benjigab: 37 points, 14 turns
Young Witch was on the board, but with a 5/2 opening and Lighthouse as bane, this was a Curse-free game.  This game was similar to game 6: a Wharf-based engine game, but this time with Hamlets and Border Villages instead of Universities and Festivals.  I invested in a lot of Hamlets and Wharves, while Benjigab went for Lighthouses and Border Village/Wharves.  We both neglected the economy side of our engines; I realized this when I hit $8 on turn 10, but with that $8 coming from my 7 starting Coppers and my opening Lighthouse!  On that turn, I invested in BV/Stash/Lighthouse, and from then on I was able to hit $11 or $12 (but never $13) on most turns, purchasing Silver with my extra buys.  Benjigab had only one Silver, with the rest of the economy coming from Lighthouses, and he was hitting only $9 or $10 per turn.  However, Benjigab's engine was faster, and Benjigab ended the game by buying a fifth Province on turn 14.

Concluding Thoughts: Both Benjigab and I played strong games.  Benjigab outplayed me in games 6 and 7 (both engine games), while I outplayed Benjigab in games 2 and 5 (both combo games).  I personally feel that I outplayed Benjigab in game 3 despite my loss there, and Benjigab probably feels the same way about game 4.  This match could have gone either way, so I am wishing Benjigab the best of luck in round 2 and the rest of the Witch tournament! :D
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 04:04:05 pm by sffc »
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2012, 04:15:44 pm »
0

In Round 2 Mic Qsenoch wins 4 - 0 against Dubdubdubdub

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-122019-096aea50.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-123303-bd6884f0.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-124647-b6455466.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-131144-8aea4ae0.html

All of the boards we saw were very interesting. Lots of engine stuff. Thanks for the match Dubdubdubdub.

Edit: Which isn't to imply that I think engine=interesting. I definitely don't believe that. The two Scrying Pool games were pretty tedious to actually play out (so many clicks). But I thought all the boards had at least a couple nice card interactions, several of which weren't even used by either player.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 05:11:22 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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benjigab

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2012, 04:24:36 pm »
0

I definitely agree that my match with sffc could have gone either way. I'm not proud of games 2 and 5, in which I was heavily outplayed. Games 3 and 4 could have gone either way I think. Anyway, much of thanks to sffc for the game and a well-written post !
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2012, 05:14:41 pm »
+3

WanderingWinder 4 - 1 TimmaDoo
There were some communication issues at the start (he wasn't sure on all the rules, didn't know how to report things), but he was a pretty good sport, and in the end I just took charge of getting the settings down right and reporting things.

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-115554-32cbc25a.html
Bridge, City, Colony, Fishing Village♦, Highway, Hunting Party, Navigator, Oracle, Platinum, Silk Road, Trader, Venture, and Young Witch
This is probably the most interesting game of the bunch. He goes for young witch, I do the rare ignore of it, snapping up lots of bane cards - which were fishing villages. I think that was a pretty good decision, but I was not so happy with how I built my engine, which was based on FV along with Bridge, Oracle, and City. I followed him into cities because I thought FV would run, but this may have been unwise. Anyway, at some point I realize I need to get some points, because this thing can three pile. I also maneuver to get three piles low at once once I have that lead, so that when he drains a pile, I can drain the other two the next turn. I win this one almost entirely on the back of tactics, rather than strategy,
WW 15 - TimmaDoo 3

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-120320-015f8fd3.html
Ambassador, Bureaucrat, Embargo, Festival, Horn of Plenty, Navigator, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Remodel, Spy, and Worker's Village

I wondered whether it was worth it to go for ambassador here. I wondered a LOT. There is just no engine - only two cards which are even cantrips in terms of draw - and I thought about HoP which can often be strong even without super strong draw, if you can thin out enough; but without one more cantrip, it's impossible to even get a horn up to 8. Now maybe it is still good, because you can gum them up and start grabbing like some golds or something with extra buys from festival, maybe sling curses across, but it just seems really weak for ambassador, so I decided to play a BM strategy. Well, anyway I go for bureaucrat-festival (hey, even money is really weak here...). He goes for Worker's Village and some money. We each get an embargo - I plant on navigator (I figure this is the best terminal for him to use his village on at that point), and he puts his on Duchy,  which was particularly shrewd. Anyway, he hangs around better than I'd expect, but this one wasn't ever really in doubt.
TimmaDoo 23 - 34 WW

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-120912-66a49098.html
Bazaar, Conspirator, Duchess, Haven, Monument, Navigator, Noble Brigand, Scout, Vault, and Witch
I don't understand this, though I probably also had a bit of FPS. He goes for lots of terminals early, bazaars later, and it pays off for him. I go for fewer terminals early, but somehow it feels to me I have more collision (I haven't checked, and this is almost certainly self-bias). Anyway, I get my witch first but I think he plays his first anyway, despite going bazaar on his first $5. I guess that helps him with his collisions. Anyway, he pretty much crunches me here, and I'm not really sure why.
TimmaDoo 55 - WW 42

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-121521-05f557bd.html
Alchemist, Apothecary, Colony, Cutpurse, Envoy, Expand, Loan, Mine, Mining Village, Moat, Platinum, Possession, and Potion
I go for apothecary into possession. He goes mining village and mine, picks up a potion later but never uses it to buy anything. He wisely scraps his mining villages after I start possessing him, but this leaves him way behind, and I coast.
WW 47 - TimmaDoo 24

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-122834-95589fb1.html
Ambassador, Bureaucrat, Chancellor, Hamlet, Highway, Laboratory, Potion, Scheme, Scrying Pool, Vineyard, and Witch
He goes for money/highway, eventually a witch. I go ambassador into a scrying pool engine, chancellor for money, hamlet to get actions and buys, and then eventually highways. There's a nice tactical trick of discarding a bunch of actions to get free stuff off the hamlets, then draw them all with the scrying pools, but this just saved a little time (well, with all the clicks, maybe not). I decide eventually to go for a few massive vineyards, and pile out as soon as I can, though at this point my deck could also have gone much further really easy.
TimmaDoo 11 - WW 45

Thanks for the match!

KMueller

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2012, 05:15:31 pm »
0

Geronimoo vs. Marvelous Marvin Haggler (KMueller)

Game 1:   Geronimoo defeats KMueller  32-26

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-133915-bea8d886.html


Game 2:  KMueller defeats Geronimoo 45-37

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-134653-654aff82.html

Game 3: Geronimoo defeats KMueller  34-26

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-135124-da73b4ef.html


Game 4: Geronimoo defeats KMueller   42-31

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-135947-a7022c5a.html


Game 5:  Geronimoo defeats KMueller  78-60

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-141056-6e18fefd.html



Geronimoo wins 4-1
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2012, 05:30:35 pm »
0

jhkokst advances over Wittyhowlard by forfeit.
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philosophyguy

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2012, 06:42:22 pm »
0

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-120912-66a49098.html
Bazaar, Conspirator, Duchess, Haven, Monument, Navigator, Noble Brigand, Scout, Vault, and Witch
I don't understand this, though I probably also had a bit of FPS. He goes for lots of terminals early, bazaars later, and it pays off for him. I go for fewer terminals early, but somehow it feels to me I have more collision (I haven't checked, and this is almost certainly self-bias). Anyway, I get my witch first but I think he plays his first anyway, despite going bazaar on his first $5. I guess that helps him with his collisions. Anyway, he pretty much crunches me here, and I'm not really sure why.
TimmaDoo 55 - WW 42

Any reason you didn't transition to Vaults in this game? Vault is extremely resilient to deck junking. With the number of Bazaars you (both) had, you didn't have a huge risk of drawing Monuments dead, and Bazaar + Monument + Vault is a guaranteed Province even if you don't connect the Vault with a Gold.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2012, 06:47:57 pm »
+8

I'm taking notes.

Gonna skip Witches against WW so that WW's lack of curses increases his risk of terminal collision.
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Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2012, 07:11:47 pm »
0

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-120912-66a49098.html
Bazaar, Conspirator, Duchess, Haven, Monument, Navigator, Noble Brigand, Scout, Vault, and Witch
I don't understand this, though I probably also had a bit of FPS. He goes for lots of terminals early, bazaars later, and it pays off for him. I go for fewer terminals early, but somehow it feels to me I have more collision (I haven't checked, and this is almost certainly self-bias). Anyway, I get my witch first but I think he plays his first anyway, despite going bazaar on his first $5. I guess that helps him with his collisions. Anyway, he pretty much crunches me here, and I'm not really sure why.
TimmaDoo 55 - WW 42

Any reason you didn't transition to Vaults in this game? Vault is extremely resilient to deck junking. With the number of Bazaars you (both) had, you didn't have a huge risk of drawing Monuments dead, and Bazaar + Monument + Vault is a guaranteed Province even if you don't connect the Vault with a Gold.
Uh, my thoughts are that Vault goes most nicely with money, and that the penalty can actually REALLY help a choked opponent who builds the kinds of deck we each had. You may well be right though.

WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2012, 07:50:39 pm »
+2

Round 2: WW 4 - Umptious 1

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-153729-f49b28ff.html
WW 63 - 2 Umptious
This game was NOT as lopsided as the score indicates, by any means. We both open Chapel/Mandarin/Mint. Really interesting. I set myself up with a Mandarin play on turn 5 (after a turn 4 dud) to get chapel-estate-estate-estate on 5 (this was really fortunate for me). And then I was able to ramp up really well to grand market. Really fast. And then KC. There were some interesting decisions around turn 9 on how to add more components - KC, tournament and grand market primarily. Also some questions as to what should be KC'd at various points, and when to stick in for a province for the tournaments. He'd gotten up to platinum faster, and this can be really good with mints and KC and stuff, but well, here I'm not so sure. And then on his turn 12, he misclicked and grabbed princess as his prize from a won tournament. I was able to grab followers... and trusty steed an then later diadem, and grab the last 5 provinces, 2 colonies, and an estate in my last turn, also giving him a few curses. Okay, I chapelled 4 estates, but 3 of those I also gained that turn, so heading into that turn, I was only up by a handful of points. And I did have first player here. Anyway, I think the very action-centric strategy is a little better than all the platina here, but it should not be such a lopsided affair.

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-154405-89e60543.html
Umptious 49 - 53 WW
This one was really interesting. YW-Tunnel. With an oasis bane. And mint and IGG. On a colony board. Well, I think the story is he overbought tunnels a little, and maybe underbought enablers a little, and I had quite good luck in getting mine to collide. And having the golds clump together right for colonies, too. Strategically, verrrry close here, I think.

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-155125-5c945829.html
Umptious 31 - 19 WW
Yeah, so I think I selected strategy better than him here (though it's not totally clear), but I executed very poorly. He also had rotten luck with his swindler. I go for 1 jack into a Rabble/WV engine, but I should definitely have grabbed an Ironworks into getting villages faster and some swindlers much earlier. I overbuild my engine a little and then get a couple dud hands at the wrong time, as well as leave the door a little too open for him to 3 pile. He opens ironworks which I originally think is bad, because I figure he's going for the great halls with it - which he does. I don't like this play on a colony board, but I have to say, it does give you some amount of control. But the big thing is the overbuilding, and the not building right. One of these got cancelled out by his really atrocious swindler luck. Actually maybe both, but the combination of the two, along with 1st player advantage, and him being quite tactically sharp, allowed him to win.

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-155844-bb45fb57.html
WW 43 - 14 Umptious
This is the only game I felt like I significantly outplayed him. I go for a hamlet/menagerie engine with highway. He goes for... something with bishop, which REALLY helps me out with the trashing. Anyway, I start going pretty big, but near the end had a dud-ish hand had me a little bit worried, though there was really no need - three piling just wasn't going to happen (In fact I could only get up to 6 buys on my last hand, and I had more available at all times than he did).

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-160539-ddcc2181.html
Umptious 12 - 23 WW
Another really interesting one. Smugglers, Shanty town, apothecary, Coppersmith, IGG, Border Village, Duke, all important. Also around were Haggler, Steward, and Swindler. Yeah, I thought those were the relatively unimportant cards(!) I'm probably really wrong about that. This could easily have been an annotated game were it not in the tournament, though probably both of us played sub-optimally. Anyway, we go for smuggler/silver and... he gets a potion, and I wasn't GOING to go apothecary, but for a free smuggle? I did. Anyway, we go through BVs, some shanty towns, and IGGs and smugglers, then grind the duchies down. He is very tactically aware and plays quite nicely, but I think there were two mistakes (along of course with some shuffle luck) that really cost him - BV into Shanty town rather than IGG on turn 5 (he is probably dreaming of some big apothecary-BV-Shanty-coppersmith thing, but it just can't be best here - the curses bog too much, and there aren't +buy anyway), and later on he passes up province for a BV, something I just don't think you can do in such games. But really, very little separation overall.

A very well fought match, and I think he played quite well in general.

ddubois

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2012, 03:55:47 am »
+3

ddubois goes down two games, then pulls off the sweep, 4-2 over knaacku.

I forgot to get some of the logs.  I suspect there's some way to correct this problem by getting the entire day's logs, or the day's logs for just myself, but perhaps my opponent will be gracious enough to post them.

Game 1:
knaacku wins: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-231336-a049896f.html
I possibly under-prioritized Stables, and my opponent grabbed as many as he could to cycle around to his militia/bridge much harder than I did.  I've bad experiences in the past with the Spice Merchant/Stables anti-combo (ala "VetoPossession draws: a Remodel, a Militia, a Spice Merchant, and 2 Estates"), so I rid myself of the Spice Merchant on that draw - probably a mistake.  With stables being the only +card, and hand size attacks, it was hard to make a consistent fishing village/bridge engine, and this was due to be a high variance match.  knaacku went with Silvers over Fishing Villages on a few occasions, and that seemed wrong to me in the moment, but it did have the effect of keeping his Stables from fizzling, so he probably played it right.  Anyway, he was so far ahead in VP, I just quit rather than play it out.

Game 2:
knaacku wins:
On a colony board with a bunch of terrible cards for a colony game and Embassy, I opened Remake/Silver, and he opened Silver/Silver into Embassy.  My remake missed all estates the first pass, and then both it and my second Remake missed Estate #2 and #3, and each other, for the rest of the game.  I was hoping to use remake to transition into Embassy with a meatier $/card deck, but my opponent hit turn 6 platinum(!), and that was game.  With no decent $4 cards, perhaps Remake is a mistake . (I had a lot of "remake with 3 silver" hands.)  But trashing is generally even more important than usual in a colony game, so I doubt it - at least the first one anyway.  Remake #2 was probably dumb.  I was on raging tilt at this point, so I started snap exiting and forgetting to log.

Game 3:
ddubois wins:
On a board with Great Hall, Walled Village, Bridge, Hunting Party, and Margave, we both open Chapel/Militia.  I hit the nut fucking low (chap/mil/ccc) on turn 3, but he goes for straight HP/coin, while I pick up an ever increasing amount of +buy.  I'm well behind on points, but eventually get the engine up and buy about 22 points on the last turn.

Game 4:
ddubois wins: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-233807-be647aac.html
On a big money masq/wharf board, I get slightly better shuffle luck, but on our turn 6'es, I get a gold and he gets his third terminal, which I think is a mistake.  Then he buys a province with no gold in deck, which dooms his deck to a stunted econ.

Game 5:
ddubois wins: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/09/game-20121209-234505-a7ec154a.html
On a board with no +action, but Hunting Party/Bank/Envoy, I open Trading Post/Pawn and he opens Trading Post/Embargo.  He then embargoes the bank after I've already bought one(!?).  I obviously don't think embargo was a good choice.  I'm luckily able to silver up my estates immediately and +action/+buy + Envoy lots of silvers + Bank into some juicy turns, including one with double HP and one with double prov.  (I should have grabbed a Gold somewhere though.)

Game 6:
ddubois wins:
On a Minion, Mountebank, Apprentice, Highway, Pawn board we both open Conspirator/Silver.  Then he ignores trashing and cursing and tries to bum rush the minions.  He wins the battle (6-4 on minions and HPs), but loses the war as my deck is very tight, while his bloats up to 3 estate/11 copper/4 curses.  I eventually pile the Pawns with a ~30 point lead.

knaacku was a nice guy (much nicer than I!  I was my usual tilted raging self), and I wish him luck.
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dnkywin

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2012, 12:06:50 am »
+1

Round 2 - (23) dnkywin over (10) dghunter79, 4-2

Game 1 - dnkywin 34, dghunter79 21
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-193659-535c09d0.html
cards in supply: Coppersmith, Jack of All Trades, Library, Mint, Navigator, Oasis, Pearl Diver, Royal Seal, Sea Hag, and Tunnel

This is pretty much a mirror DoubleJack/Oasis game, and I get slightly luckier. Not much else to say about that.

Game 2 - dghunter79 34, dnkywin 24
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-194150-ea2327ee.html
cards in supply: Apprentice, Duchess, Golem, Haven, Lighthouse, Lookout, Mandarin, Moat, Peddler, Potion, and Spy

I open Lookout/Silver, trying to go for Peddlers (maybe I should have gotten Haven or Lighthouse?) but I change my mind and try and go BM, but I fall behind and then I decide to break PPR for some stupid reason (hello Apprentice!), and he pulls out the win.

Game 3 - dghunter79 67, dnkywin 55
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-195617-1b4a4efc.html
cards in supply: Duke, Fairgrounds, Ironworks, Jester, Mandarin, Moat, Peddler, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Trade Route, and Workshop

I don't realize until his third Mandarin that he's going Duchy/Duke (the Mandarin/Duke combo totally slipped my mind in this assessment), and he gets a decisive win.

Game 4 - dnkywin 44, dghunter79 17
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-200745-22c92871.html
cards in supply: Bank, Coppersmith, Grand Market, King's Court, Laboratory, Library, Spy, Swindler, Trader, and Village

This is the game I'm the most proud of. We both open Swindler/Trader and go for labs/more swindlers/king's court, but when he swindles my KC into a Bank, I switch to BM, which I think was the right decision.

Game 5 - dnkywin 43, dghunter79 14
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-201627-6d759283.html
cards in supply: Grand Market, Harvest, Inn, Jester, Library, Market, Possession, Potion, Salvager, Smugglers, and Vineyard

I open Jester/nothing, he gets Salvage/Silver, but I pick up a Salvage and then pretty much go BM. I think he was trying to go for an engine, but I quickly pull ahead and he tries to go for desperation Possession/Vineyards, but I'm able to finish the deed before shortly after he picks up his first Possession.

Game 6 - dnkywin 13, dghunter 3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-202203-1544f08c.html
cards in supply: Border Village, Bureaucrat, Chancellor, Duchess, Expand, Forge, Margrave, Monument, Torturer, and Workshop

I'll say it right now - I'm really sorry this game happened. dghunter fails to hit $5 until turn 5, and it all goes downhill from there. The game is pretty much over when I play 5 tortures + 1 margrave on turn 11, but I have to admit this game (like game 1) was simply just luck of the draw.

The match was really close - Games 1 and 6 could have very easily gone the other way. dghunter79 was a great opponent and was able to put up with the terrible internet connection that I had during parts of the match  :-\.
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Funkiemonk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2012, 01:51:33 am »
0

Round 2: Funkiemonk wins 4-1

Game 1: Funkiemonk 16 - Michael Harris 37
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-212517-eb6d4257.html
He gets his Watchtower engine going quite nicely and crushes me.  The 5/2 opening didn't help me (we played identical starting hands after this game).

Game 2: Funkiemonk 35 - Michael Harris 32
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-213017-e2912018.html
Mirror match with witch.  I had a little more treasure, which may have helped with the 5-3 province split.

Game 3: Funkiemonk 66 - Michael Harris 58
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-214146-755ccd28.html
We both mess up pretty bad in this Library game.  I wait too long to get any +buy and also opt for two early colony buys that slow down my engine too much mid-late game.  He had a chance to win on Turn 16 if he hadn't discarded the FV.

Game 4: Funkiemonk 37 - Michael Harris 35
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-214933-7a6a52b6.html
Boring Highway game.  I start buying extra barons in a desperate attempt to catch up, which leads to a very, very lucky last turn to eek out a victory.

Game 5: Funkiemonk 44 - Michael Harris 32
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-215719-67208abf.html
Considered going double tactician, but with ghost ship and a lack of help for secret chamber I decide to pretty much go BM+Ghost ship.  I mess up bad on turn 14 and return a province to my deck, only to be sabotaged.  I'm not sure if I misclicked or just wasn't thinking (probably the latter).

All in all I could have played better.  I had some luck on my side; he had better decks in games 3 and 4.  If those games had gone his way I would be down 1-3 going into game 5, obviously pretty hard to come back from.  A well played match...hope your wall doesn't have any holes in it, Michael  ;)
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dghunter79

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2012, 04:15:04 am »
0

dnkywin def. dghunter79 4-2

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-193659-535c09d0.html
Jack v. Jack.  He gets a Gold on the 2nd shuffle.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-194150-ea2327ee.html
My Apprentices and Havens over his Lookout and Cash.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-195617-1b4a4efc.html
Dukes.  My Ironworks and Silver into Mandarins and Dukes over his Silver and Silver into Cash, Provinces, and Dukes.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/10/game-20121210-200745-22c92871.html
Swindlers and Traders.  He gets a King's Court on turn 6.  I swindle that into a Bank, which turns out to be better.

No Link.
Something where I go for Grand Markets, Possessions, and Vineyards, but his Salvager and Cash is obviously much faster and better.

No Link.
Border Villages and Torturers.  We both open Silvers.  He gets a Torturer on the 2nd shuffle.  Both my Silvers miss the shuffle.

Good games!  We both played equally okay, and when we went for the same thing he outdrew me, even with my first-player advantage.

popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2012, 10:43:28 am »
+1

Navigator, Oasis, and Tunnel can't beat doubleJack?  You could even include 1 Jack I think.

In response to dghunter's game1
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Titandrake

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2012, 04:25:29 pm »
+1

Round 2: LowPants 4 - 1 Titandrake

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-121200-932039c8.html
We both have terrible Familiar luck, but mine is slightly less terrible, and Tournament closes it.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-122312-da13d2d6.html
Going in, I had vague plans of Salvager into Witch-BM, possible Dukes. Then I decided to follow LowPants into Alchemists. I pick up my Potion late, and it misses the reshuffle. By the time I get it, LowPants has 3 Alchemists already and I'm pretty much sunk. Try to go back to BM route but it's too slow now. I also don't pick up an early 2nd Witch, choosing Gold instead. This is me either underestimating Alchemist or not sticking to a plan. Or both.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-123550-bb0d4102.html
I see WV and Peddler and hone in on it with WV/Warehouse opening. Honestly, not quite sure where this all went wrong. My current theory is that I didn't get Quarry fast enough (although I'm only a few turns behind LowPants), or I didn't line up Quarry with +Buy to make it useful (see turn 9). Or my turn 11 Lookout (should have put Quarry on top, looking back).

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-124232-6445f8a6.html
We both go Witch-BM. Once again I don't pick up a second Witch early, choosing Gold instead. You'd think I'd learn my lesson from game 2 on why this is a bad idea...Lose Curse split 6-4 which carries into endgame.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-125244-af7010c2.html
I try Apprentice-Hoard with Wharf for +Buy, LowPants does University into Wharves. I completely miss Embargo, which ruins Hoard, but decide my only chance is to keep going, as Duke and Farmland is in the Kingdom. Didn't want a repeat of game 2 where my transition hurt me badly. Eventually, every Victory card except Province and Estate is Embargoed. Manage to hold onto lead for a bit, then LowPants goes all-in and it works. I think I bought Wharf over Apprentice too much here, or I should have gotten University, or I should have done Wharf-BM. Would like some input here, this game is very weird thanks to Embargo.

LowPants played well. In the games with similar strategies my small mistakes added up. In the games with divergent ones, mine was just slower. Good luck against (probably) olneyce!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 04:28:43 pm by Titandrake »
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benjigab

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #91 on: December 11, 2012, 04:59:31 pm »
+1

Round 2 : Benjigab beats Varsinor 4-3

Game 1 : Varsinor 33 - benjigab 25
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-121343-218c8ddd.html
I try and ignore Chapel on a Young Witch/Hunting Party board (with Cellar as bane) and it doesn't really work out. I go heavily Hunting Party, but my deck basically has no money, while my Varsinor's Chapeled deck runs more smoothly. I manage to buy 3 provinces, but that's not enough.

Game 2 :  benjigab 40 -Varsinor 35
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-122423-e0c8516c.html
The IGG game where no IGG is ever purchased ! I guess both of us felt that Jack of all Trades/Fishing Village/Nomad Camp was too fast.

Game 3 : Varsinor 24 -benjigab 42
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-123129-84e66e02.html
I go for straight BM-Margrave, never even stopping for a second Margrave, while Varsinor tries to mix it up with a couple Native Villages. But my deck manages to buy 6 provinces in 17 turns.

Game 4 : Varsinor 75 - benjigab 7
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-124615-819cfb4e.html
That was University/Wharf/Highway/King's Court madness. I love University/Watchtower interaction, so I open Watchtower/Potion, while my opponent opens Oracle/Potion. But his deck cycles a lot better in the beginning, and the attack actually hurts me a couple times, so he manages to buy more Universities than me, and from then on it snowballs into a couple megaturns for him. He could have ended it on piles on turn 12 but sees it too late, so he goes for another bigger megaturn on turn 13.

Game 5 : benjigab 51 - Varsinor 47
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-125443-244fef49.html
We both go for Monument/Throne Room/Warehouse, but I buy one more Monument, and the VP chips do make the difference in the end.

Game 6 : Varsinor 64 - benjigab 37
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-130426-8243fc26.html
Our only Colony game. Varsinor goes for simple BM+Margrave/Militia, while I try to do something fancy with all 10 Highways and Margrave. But with no +actions, that was doomed to fail...

Game 7 : benjigab 31 - Varsinor 31
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-131123-9d6c2a85.html
This was a Sea Hag/Silk Road/Nobles/Stables game, in which our decks were nearly identical in the end. I though I was behind at first  because he got to Gold and Nobles sooner than me, but I was able to catch up, and in the end we both had 2 Provinces, and we split the Nobles, the Silk Roads and the Curses.

Game 8 : Varsinor 32 - benjigab 36
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-132318-dae430c1.html
We both open nothing/Witch on a board with many options : Peddler, Border Village, Laboratory, Bishop, Throne Room, and Nomad Camp for the +buy... Varsinor goes for Bishop while I don't, and he gets unlucky, never managing to connect his Bishop with a Peddler or a Border Village, while his Bishop enables me to trash 2 curses. I broke the PPR, but at that time our decks were getting worse and worse and I felt that was my only shot at winning.

Overall, I felt I mostly won through luck, with Varsinor outplaying me in all 3 games I lost. But he was very civil about it in the end, and I thank him for a nice match.
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Varsinor

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #92 on: December 11, 2012, 06:19:49 pm »
0

Grats again, benjigab!

So I already bid farewell to this championship - let's see about next time! 8)
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SirPeebles

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #93 on: December 11, 2012, 09:21:52 pm »
+2

greatexpectations beat Peebles 4-1

These were some very interesting boards!  Alt VP and cool strategies on each one.


Game 1:  greatexpectations 89, Peebles 61
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-172812-2379fce8.html
First match was Fairgrounds/Black Market.  We each ended up with 10 point Fairgrounds, and split them evenly.  These games are often a bit of a mess from my point of view.  It was long and fun though.

Game 2:  greatexpectations 12, Peebles 35
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-173753-173d1a40.html
A vineyard game and which we each opened with a Chapel and then just rushed with Mining Village/Workshop.  I manage to snag 8 of the Workshops and dipped into the Vineyards first, which was practically game over since Workshops were just about our only source of gaining actions, with our buys going towards vineyards.  I'd never played a game like this before.  Crazier than workshop/gardens.

Game 3:  greatexpectations 82 , Peebles 61
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-174848-7a2127bf.html
A Colony game, but the key cards were Watchtower-Hoard-Margrave-Silk Road.  Watchtower gave recovery from Margrave, and when Margrave gave a fistful of Hoards, you could spend your spare buy on an Estate, trashing it with Watchtower while topdecking a flood of Gold.  At the end there was only a single Gold in the supply.  I joked that we almost three piled on Gold/Hoad/Silk Road.

Game 4:  greatexpectations 65, Peebles 48
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-180437-485b1896.html
Another Fairgrounds game.  This time there was no Black Market, but we could Remake IGG into Fairgounds.  Sea Hag and Bishop were around too.

Game 5:  greatexpectations 49, Peebles 27
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-181415-dac8ab48.html
Another silly board.  We Remaked down, and then there was silliness with Highway, King's Court, Workshop, and Horn of Plenty.  Islands too.

Really fun and interesting games!  Thanks greatexpectations.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 09:40:17 pm by SirPeebles »
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greatexpectations

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2012, 10:02:48 pm »
+2

fantastic set with peebles. easily my favorite tournament set, and i have been a part of almost all of them run on here. what i think was most interesting was that each board was a pretty classic example for 5 of the different kingdom approaches. board 1 was great for engines, and that was followed by rush, money, cursing/slog, and megaturn boards. and as peebles mentioned, each board had alt-vp to spice things up further.

game 1 - black market/fairgrounds was an obvious choice. scheme, nobles, steward and festival powered the engine. i built my engine slightly more early on and i guess it proved the difference.
game 2 - similar ideas, but i flat out got outplayed here.
game 3 - turn 8 i had a perfect draw, playing margrave and ending with $4, a hoard, and a watchtower. top decked two gold, trashed the estates, and got a plat the next turn. i was able to cruise from there.
game 4 - i really wanted to remake into a golden deck here, but knew the cursing would make that a mess. we got off to a similar start, but i opted for a 2nd remake instead of a sea hag.
game 5 - a pretty clear megaturn board, i thought. kings court and highway, remake to trash, and HoP/workshop to gain. turn 17 i drew every card in my deck except the workshop, but i still had a big enough turn to seal the deal.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 10:55:18 pm by greatexpectations »
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Piemaster

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2012, 05:12:49 pm »
+11

Round 2 - Marin beat Piemaster in a match that was two games closer than expected at 4-2

Game 1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/12/game-20121212-123305-eb6f1422.html
cards in supply: Alchemist, Bridge, Colony, Hoard, Hunting Party, Loan, Lookout, Menagerie, Platinum, Possession, Potion, Swindler, and Tunnel

Marin wanted to play with Veto and I didn't.  As the rules say no, I got my way.  Small victories!  In all honesty I don't play much veto mode and I think letting Marin choose 10 from 11 is suicidal as he is a far (far far far) better engine builder than me.  Anyway this first game was interesting.  I open Silver/Potion and Marin opens Swindler/Potion.  He complains bitterly about how he hates Possession and wishes he could have vetoed it, along with Swindler.  But the shuffler gods are fans of irony as much as anybody else, so of course Marin hits my Potion with his Swindler on Turn 8, single-handedly winning him the Alchemist split and the Possession race.  Marin then raced to 3 Possessions and filled his deck with junk in the process, making it very difficult to do anything with my own Possessions.  In a moment of comedy he also managed to trash two of his own Alchemists with my Swindler on Possessed turns (which didn't do him any harm as he was trying to junk up anyway).    We were both scoring Provinces with my deck and Duchies with his and it was quite a close race right until the end.  I snuck a Province on a Possession turn, to take the lead, but Marin was able to buy the last Duchy on his turn to 3-pile for the narrow win.

Marin - 35 (1)
Piemaster - 34 (0)



Game 2

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/12/game-20121212-124432-e15e9a85.html
cards in supply: Apprentice, Caravan, Colony, Contraband, Fortune Teller, Pirate Ship, Platinum, Rabble, Remodel, Sea Hag, Watchtower, and Wishing Well

A Colony/Sea Hag game is always a bit different.  We both opened Sea Hag/Watchtower and played ping-pong with curses for a while.  We both took an early Apprentice, the main difference with our lines is that I took a second Hag (knowing I could trash it with Apprentice or Remodel later) while Marin stuck with just the one.  Once the curses went, the middle game was all about spamming Apprentice to get rid of all the crap in our decks and ramp up to Colonies.  I managed to win the race to Platinum and managed to ride the tempo jump all the way to victory.

Marin - 42 (1)
Piemaster - 58 (1)



Game 3

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/12/game-20121212-125115-ecf08615.html
cards in supply: Council Room, Ghost Ship, Harvest, Masquerade, Pearl Diver, Scout, Silk Road, Treasure Map, Treasury, and Venture

After getting owned by Kirian in a Silk Road game in the last round, I wasn't much looking forward to this one.  We both opened Masquerade/Silver and quickly accelerated into a Gold.  We deviated in that I took a Ghost Ship with my first 5 while Marin opted for Venture.  I managed to score Provinces on Turn 5 and 6 (?) which put Marin under a bit of pressure.  He tried to rush Silk Roads and he almost made it work, but I was able to BM my way to glory, buying out the Provinces just in time.

Marin - 42 (1)
Piemaster - 47 (2)



Game 4

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/12/game-20121212-130903-e5f952de.html
cards in supply: Ambassador, Black Market, Crossroads, Gardens, Pearl Diver♦, Rabble, Remake, Salvager, Sea Hag, Woodcutter, and Workshop

Okay, what the smeggedy smeg was going on here?  I was beating the legendary Marin 2-1!  I was forced to take a drugs test by the WADA before the start of game 4.  The next game was a very strange one involving Ambassador but not much else of note, but a Black Market stuffed full of goodies.  Marin opened double Ambassador, while I opened Rabble/Crossroads (neither of us wanted identical starting hands).  The first half of the game was rather even, with both of us bouncing around crap with Ambassadors and trying to build some kind of deck with whatever we could pull out of Black Market.  I probably pulled slightly better stuff to be honest, but Marin had far better control of his deck and took control of the match with a sort-of-engine built out of Rabbles and Crossroads.  We both had 2 Ambassadors, but he managed to feed me the entire deck of curses by whizzing through his deck much better than me.  To be honest this is the kind of schooling I had been expecting from Marin, the only surprise was that it didn't come until game 4.

Marin - 34 (2)
Piemaster - 20 (2)



Game 5

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/12/game-20121212-132151-015cce64.html
cards in supply: Border Village, Chancellor, Duchess, Feast, Goons, Governor, Native Village, Potion, Scrying Pool, Tunnel, and Walled Village

Okay, two games all and it was a best-of-three for the win.  Marin was obviously still a massive favourite, but it's far easier to lucksack your way to 2 out of 3 than 4 out of 7 so I dared to dream.  This game was a horrible board and, from my point of view, a horrible game.  We both obviously knew the obvious combo of buying a bunch of Governors, using them to draw a massive amount of cards then using Goons to make them discard all their freebies.  Marin opened Feast/Silver while I opted for Silver/Silver.  I made the mistake of buying a Goons first before rushing Governors.  This resulted in me losing the Governor split 6-4, which in-turn resulted in me getting completely trounced.  Nothing much else to analyse in this game.  I made a rookie mistake and got hammered for it.

Marin - 49 (3)
Piemaster - 8 (2)



Game 6

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/12/game-20121212-133219-8cdff591.html
cards in supply: Expand, Familiar, Fortune Teller, Golem, Ill-Gotten Gains, Mountebank, Potion, Sea Hag, Stables, Wishing Well, and Workshop

A curse overload game with Familiar, Sea Hag, Mountebank and IGG.  I decided to go the Familiar route, while Marin went straight for Hag and Mountebank (we both dipped into IGG a little bit).  I actually think my early game strategy was the better one and I had the tempo advantage heading into the middle game.  The decisive moment came when Marin scraped together the cash for an Expand on turn 11.  Although the effect wasn't immediately apparent, this allowed his to slowly claw back the lost tempo and emerge at the other end with a slightly better deck.  Eventually the game came down the final few Green cards and I wasn't quite able to catch up in time to win.  Marin took down game 6 and the match!

Marin - 37 (4)
Piemaster - 32 (2)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:26:44 am by Piemaster »
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Geronimoo

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #97 on: December 13, 2012, 03:52:20 pm »
0

SphinX beats Geronimoo 4-2 in round 2. He claimed he got lucky, but there was at least 1 game where I f*cked up.

Geronimoo 30    - SphinX 23
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-120704-ba483188.html
SphinX tries something fancy opening Jack/Hamlet while I stick to Jack/Silver and add a Witch soon after. He gets more Hamlets and an extra Jack. His turns are cuter, but I think the more straightforward approach is a little stronger here.

Geronimoo 19 - SphinX 21
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-121148-fb7ba32c.html
Ironworks/Gardens game. I get an early $5 and decide to get a Duchy which is huge in these type of games. I get fewer Ironworks which means my deck doesn't reach 30 cards and that's where I lose.

Geronimoo  42   - SphinX 42 (Geronimoo was first player so...)
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-121645-fb138438.html
Envoy/Hoard Big Money game. I mistakenly end the game thinking it's a draw.

Geronimoo  37   - SphinX 28
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-122528-7941d350.html
Mountebank and Goons game without engine. My opponent is in denial and picks up a million Upgrades. The Gold I traded for 6 Silvers gives me a nice economy.

Geronimoo  resigned
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-123004-af459b9b.html
Potion/Chapel for both of us. I decide to skip Familiar and go straight for University. My opponent is smarter and his Familiars destroy me. This game I definitely misplayed.

Geronimoo 28 - SphinX 31
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-123338-b4fcd303.html
Masquerade Big Money and SphinX gets slightly better draws.
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Fabian

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #98 on: December 13, 2012, 03:56:25 pm »
+2

Ending the game as first player thinking it's a draw makes me :(
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #99 on: December 13, 2012, 04:04:55 pm »
0

Omnomnom PM'ed me Dec 9 saying that Tuesday and Thursday both looked good for him, I said Tuesday was iffy but Thursday was definitely good.  I have not heard from him since, and today is supposedly the day our schedules lined up.  I am available Friday, but I have a Smash tournament Saturday and if that is the only day he can play before deadline I feel I am the less responsible party for failure to schedule.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #100 on: December 13, 2012, 04:21:18 pm »
0

Geronimoo  42   - SphinX 42 (Geronimoo was first player so...)
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-121645-fb138438.html
Envoy/Hoard Big Money game. I mistakenly end the game thinking it's a draw.
Not that it mattered for the result. The Duchies were already gone, and there were only 2 Estates left. Even if you buy Estate, he buys the other on his turn, and you're still down 6 with way for you to get VP tokens or give Curses, so you still can't win.

It is, of course, more deflating to not know you lost until you see the red shield.
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Watno

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #101 on: December 13, 2012, 04:29:13 pm »
0

Round 2: playing twice a day, can i be better than level … 4 - 2 Watno

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-120616-638c91dd.html
He opens 5/2 on Witch/FG board, i try some desparation bishop moves, doesn't work out.

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-121829-d749378a.html
I get nice stuff from black market

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-122315-f3c7f781.html
BM embassy, he wins

Game 4: forgot log
I go Silkroads with nomad camp (Great hall was on the board too), he goes B;-courtyard for provs. I screw up on last turn missing the chance to win, and he ties

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-123540-0d3f8574.html
BM jack mirror, I win

Game 6: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-124256-d37f6af0.html
BMish with Remake, he takes Council Room over Apprentice, game gets really close, he wins 41-40

Game 7: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-130726-572ea5f5.html
Really good game: I go for some Goons, then into Silkroads/Gardens and get a lead of more than 60 points.  He sets up huge goons turns with bazaar and tactician, and Marins me in the end.

Thx for the games, good luck to you in the next round of the tournamnt, playing blablabla
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playing bla bla bla...

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #102 on: December 13, 2012, 04:34:13 pm »
0

In round 2,   playing bla bla bla... 4  - Watno  2

very very close games! 
...except game 1 i had a 5/2 witch/fool's gold opening, and game 2,  won easyly by Watno

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-120616-638c91dd.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-121829-d749378a.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-122315-f3c7f781.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-123024-91c85bd7.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-123540-0d3f8574.html

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-124256-d37f6af0.html

and the last one was a really good game i think with two strategies
silk road/garden/nomad camp goons  versus goons/tactician/bazar/oracle  with an extremely stressing end Watno needing just 4 to take the last garden and win(but with a green game)
... final score  120/113 in 31 turns

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/13/game-20121213-130726-572ea5f5.html
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olneyce

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #103 on: December 14, 2012, 11:44:23 am »
+3

Will post a more complete version of this later, since I have to run.  But in round 2, olneyce got crushed by randomname 4-1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-081157-ac76ad10.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-082238-5ee7a73b.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083049-02716f08.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083415-adaf115b.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-084018-c587161e.html

It was a combination of bad luck, stupid play, and randomname making almost no mistakes.

Good luck to randomname, who now needs to go on and win the thing!
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #104 on: December 14, 2012, 11:45:21 am »
+3

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Piemaster

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #105 on: December 14, 2012, 11:47:15 am »
+4

At the time I was fine with it, but now I'm starting to feel a bit bummed that I didn't beat Marin :)
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #106 on: December 14, 2012, 11:48:04 am »
+2

At the time I was fine with it, but now I'm starting to feel a bit bummed that I didn't beat Marin :)

Slacker.
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randomname

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #107 on: December 14, 2012, 11:53:44 am »
+8

Round 2
randomname 4, olneyce 1

Game 1:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-081157-ac76ad10.html
A familiar game with colonies. I went for provinces, olneyce took his time to build up an engine and beat me easily.
olneyce 62, randomname 37

Game 2:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-082238-5ee7a73b.html
Sea hag game where olneyce went for alchemists/scrying pools, but I went for slightly more of a big money strategy, and came out on top.
randomname 71, olneyce 38

Game 3:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083049-02716f08.html
A game with moneylender and venture. We took similar strategies, but I think the turn where olneyce was forced to trash a gold with his lookout gave me the win. But it took a lot of back and forth duchy buying, penultimate province chicken playing to get there.
randomname 45, olneyce 35

Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083415-adaf115b.html
We both went pure double jack, I just came out with better luck.
randomname 33, olneyce 25

Game 5:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-084018-c587161e.html
King's court, festival, council room. Olneyce went with a couple golems, as well. I was able to finish the game with two 2-province turns.
randomname 45, olneyce 15

Overall, I got some good luck, and olneyce got some bad luck. I had a lot of fun playing with you, olneyce, and I hope to do some more of it in the future.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #108 on: December 14, 2012, 12:22:47 pm »
+4

Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083415-adaf115b.html
We both went pure double jack, I just came out with better luck.
randomname 33, olneyce 25

I die a little inside every time I see people go double jack. This board has Goons, Farming Village, Oracle, Peddler, and Develop (with Pearl Diver as a $2 card)!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 12:25:04 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #109 on: December 14, 2012, 12:27:26 pm »
0

Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083415-adaf115b.html
We both went pure double jack, I just came out with better luck.
randomname 33, olneyce 25

I die a little inside every time I see people go double jack. This board has Goons, Farming Village, Oracle, Peddler, and Develop (with Pearl Diver as a $2 card)!
With no trashing, subpar drawing, and the only attacks actually helping Jack (Goons discards the crap, Oracle reorders the top of the deck), a Goons deck would get thrashed here.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #110 on: December 14, 2012, 12:38:24 pm »
+2

Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083415-adaf115b.html
We both went pure double jack, I just came out with better luck.
randomname 33, olneyce 25

I die a little inside every time I see people go double jack. This board has Goons, Farming Village, Oracle, Peddler, and Develop (with Pearl Diver as a $2 card)!
With no trashing, subpar drawing, and the only attacks actually helping Jack (Goons discards the crap, Oracle reorders the top of the deck), a Goons deck would get thrashed here.

I guess that's what they were thinking, but I'm fairly confident that that's not correct. You still can't get all 8 Provinces in 18 turns or something, and it should not be hard to get to triple-Goons plays by then.
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() | (_) ^/

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2012, 12:39:32 pm »
0

Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-083415-adaf115b.html
We both went pure double jack, I just came out with better luck.
randomname 33, olneyce 25

I die a little inside every time I see people go double jack. This board has Goons, Farming Village, Oracle, Peddler, and Develop (with Pearl Diver as a $2 card)!
With no trashing, subpar drawing, and the only attacks actually helping Jack (Goons discards the crap, Oracle reorders the top of the deck), a Goons deck would get thrashed here.

I don't know about THRASHED.  But don't forget that doubleJack decks get pretty thick pretty quickly.  So the Goons' attack will only be countered on hands with Jack in them, which is to say 2 per shuffle at most.

Also, you say no trashing.  Suddenly, Develop.

Oracle/Farming Village are GREAT for light trash engines, because they have the ability to skip past *some* of the junk while doing their draw thing.  I'm not saying this makes HME's strat untouchable.  I'm just saying it has many things going for it for which you don't seem to be giving it credit.
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shark_bait

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #112 on: December 14, 2012, 12:47:12 pm »
+6

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-094445-77de36b8.html

Triple Goons starting on Turn 13.  The end-game would be controlled by the Goons player.  I still had the entire Pearl Diver Pile to empty if for some reason the Double Jack player got really good draws.  I don't see how JoaT stands a chance.
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Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?

popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #113 on: December 14, 2012, 12:56:11 pm »
+4

I'll play Jacks against your Goons strat if you like shark_bait.  You know, for science.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #114 on: December 14, 2012, 12:58:43 pm »
+1

^To beat that, you'd need to buy Province every turn starting at turn 8...
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shark_bait

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Hello.  Name's Bruce.  It's all right.  I understand.  Why trust a shark, right?

Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?

popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #116 on: December 14, 2012, 01:13:07 pm »
+1

What you don't know is that I just am looking for an excuse to play some doubleJack
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #117 on: December 14, 2012, 01:14:28 pm »
0

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/14/game-20121214-094445-77de36b8.html

Triple Goons starting on Turn 13.  The end-game would be controlled by the Goons player.  I still had the entire Pearl Diver Pile to empty if for some reason the Double Jack player got really good draws.  I don't see how JoaT stands a chance.
Some days, my habit of universally vetoing Goons causes me to forget exactly why I always veto Goons: namely, how goddamned ridiculously powerful it is. I also forgot that Goons extends the endgame by never bothering to buy any Provinces.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #118 on: December 14, 2012, 01:20:07 pm »
+1

This is an example of why I hate the rift veto mode put in the community.  ST cannot comment effectively on the community tournament because he always plays a different ruleset.
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #119 on: December 14, 2012, 01:27:10 pm »
0

Yeah, the goons engine is so ridiculously good there. No way jack wins. And jack is not a good counter to consistent goons attacks. Yeah, you love to get hit with a jack in hand, but once you start to bloat with silver a) that becomes less likely, and b) you almost certainly won't be able to afford a province with 3 cards as they will be mostly silver.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 01:30:22 pm by jonts26 »
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #120 on: December 14, 2012, 01:43:26 pm »
+2

This is an example of why I hate the rift veto mode put in the community.  ST cannot comment effectively on the community tournament because he always plays a different ruleset.
That seemed a bit unnecessary.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #121 on: December 14, 2012, 02:28:24 pm »
0

I didn't mean that in an offensive way and I don't assign blame to anyone in particular.  I'm just saying, I would be happier if everyone was all veto mode players or all normal mode players.  I don't care which.  It's just I value unity over the nuance.
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philosophyguy

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #122 on: December 14, 2012, 02:47:23 pm »
+1

This "for science" game is really interesting to me because I am not a good engine player. That the board is a good Goons board makes sense to me. How to build the deck into a Goons engine, however, is something that I do not feel I know well. Shark bait, would you be willing to do a mini-annotation of how you prioritized your buys/trashing early in the game to get the engine going?
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #123 on: December 14, 2012, 04:16:06 pm »
0

Omnom still hasn't PMed me.
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shark_bait

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #124 on: December 14, 2012, 04:37:06 pm »
+1

I decided to open with Develop/Farming village b/c Develop does both trashing and hand improvement for the next hand.  My Strategy in this game was to work on getting the draw engine going as fast as possible.  This would be a very different game with both players going for the engine.  The limiting resource would be the Farming Village.  Because you need the +Action for both Oracle to get cards in hand, and then later for Goons, when you have your cards in hand.  The difference of having 5 Farming Villages vs. 10 in gamebreaking.  With that said, you want to prioritize the Farming Village stack because winning that split is key to winning the game. Once that split is won, you will have a better engine with greater potential for large Multi-Goon hands at the end of the game.  Sorry for the rushed response, I've got somewhere to be in 10 minutes.  Chew on these thoughts first and I can try to be a bit more organized later.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #125 on: December 15, 2012, 08:10:48 am »
0

I just beat omnomnom 4-3.  The last one was a nailbiter i can hardly breathe and i have an appointment bye
I only have a couple logs, omnomnom might come in with all of them

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/15/game-20121215-035548-3026d1d2.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/15/game-20121215-041819-b49a9945.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/15/game-20121215-050922-7e107fce.html
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #126 on: December 16, 2012, 10:48:00 am »
0

My opponent is in hong kong, so finding a common time has been hard.  We are set to play Tuesday morning forum time.
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LordHedgie

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #127 on: December 16, 2012, 03:39:12 pm »
+1

I defeated jhkokst 4-3. I took an early 3-0 lead, then he won three in a row, sending us to a winner-take-all seventh round. Most of the games were close. Overall jhkokst built better engines, but I ended several games before he could get them really running.

The first game was one of the most interesting, with a 35-36 score. Governor threw us both for a loop; on his final turn jhkokst was using it to upgrade golds to provinces, whereas I responded by also gaining victory points. This game easily could have gone differently if I had different cards in my hand when he played governor:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/16/game-20121216-111724-a28dcd2f.html

Second game was also close, 34-31. We split the provinces, but I took six curses and five duchies. I took duchies early, relying on Hunting Party to help with all the junk I was adding to my deck.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/16/game-20121216-112539-2659840b.html

Game three was another close one, 34-32. Here I used Fool's Gold to get an early start, and ended up by using Farmland->Farmland for more provinces, whereas jhkokst used Trader to make a deck that was mostly silver and grabbed provinces as quick as he could. The game ended on the 16th turn with the provinces split, but the Farmlands made the difference.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/16/game-20121216-113203-1d500f2c.html

Game four was jhkokst's first win, with an exciting Bishop/Minion/Throne Room/Colony. We split the tokens 35 each, but he pulled ahead 68-61. Like many of the other games, this felt like there was a lot of luck, where a TR/TR/Minion/Minion hand would result in a colony or better, but our good hands often got Minion'd into oblivion. I actually ended the game with those four cards in my hand...
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/16/game-20121216-114841-cb175798.html

Game five was anoter jhkokst win. It was a low-scoring Ill-Gotten-Gains three-pile ending, 19-15. My last turn I thought I was down, so I eschewed the duchy and bought an estate instead. Had I bought that duchy and ended the game, I would have won 17-16. (We were not playing with point counters)
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/16/game-20121216-115518-4ed6ce5f.html

Game six was the only blowout. jhkokst built a powerful engine fast, and I thought I could end the game before he got it rolling. Once his Goons/Grand Market/King's Court/Tactician engine was hitting on all cylinders, he was collecting a zillion points a turn, and won 147-29.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/16/game-20121216-120728-d5b4c409.html

Game seven was the decider, and Fool's Gold decided it in my favor. Using Ironworks, I collected seven of the Fool's Gold, and along with Council Room and Haven I managed to effectively use them to gain six provinces to jhkokst's two. Final score was 41-26.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/16/game-20121216-121459-97d36f85.html
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 03:49:36 pm by LordHedgie »
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Qvist

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #128 on: December 16, 2012, 03:41:36 pm »
+2

Yeah, go LordHedgie. Beat Marin. I wish you best luck.

LordHedgie

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #129 on: December 16, 2012, 03:49:48 pm »
0

Thanks, I'll do my best.
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jhkokst

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #130 on: December 16, 2012, 04:06:02 pm »
0

Yeah. I found the first 3 games to be heavily luck dependent, surprisingly almost considering the cards in play.  In the first, he had a card to upgrade for each of my gov's.  In the second he was able to pull provinces in the last few turns, despite a transition to duchies and the curses which I thought would for sure prove fatal for him considering he only had 2 HPs.  Same with the third, an early lead with a transition to farmlands yet he maintained a pace that let him continue to buy provinces.  I won't lie, I was a little frustrated.  Smuggling silvers (or nothing) when he was smuggling golds,  throwing curses that seemed to do little, etc. etc.  Games 4/6 I maintained the pace and felt in control, although 4 ended much closer than i liked due to some self-inflicted bishop damage (consumed a few colonies).  Game 7 I do fully give to Hedgie, he picked the better strat for sure.

If there is a theme though, I'd say its the fact that i tend to really underestimate fool's gold.

Good luck in the next round Hedgie. 
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #131 on: December 16, 2012, 06:52:25 pm »
0

Is there a way to find old logs, or is that a thing of the past now that councilroom is down?  I had hoped omnomnom would post our logs since he said he was getting them, but he might not ever show up.
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Rabid

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #132 on: December 16, 2012, 07:05:22 pm »
+1

Is there a way to find old logs, or is that a thing of the past now that councilroom is down?  I had hoped omnomnom would post our logs since he said he was getting them, but he might not ever show up.
Yes, try this:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5486.msg137937#msg137937
Although not worth the effort unless they were particularly good games or your opponent contests the result of the match.
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #133 on: December 16, 2012, 08:24:49 pm »
0

The Haggler/Festival/Crossroads/4ptFG game was cool but not quite worth digging for ..
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nomnomnom

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #134 on: December 17, 2012, 11:48:27 am »
0

I got the first six logs of our match:
game 1
game 2
game 3
game 4
game 5
game 6
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #135 on: December 17, 2012, 12:17:08 pm »
0

Thanks nom.  I'll do a full writeup in a bit, feel free to give your own opinions too.
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LowPants

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #136 on: December 17, 2012, 02:53:07 pm »
0

Round 3


randomname - LowPants: 3 - 4

I just post the logs, might add some thoughts later.

0 - 1
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-100649-d43f0450.html

0 - 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-101114-d8481f15.html

1 - 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-102418-749e6520.html

2 - 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-103509-cf9124ff.html

3 - 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-104835-e5a86888.html

3 - 3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-105826-354176c4.html

3 - 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-111213-62f4348f.html


The last one was insanely close, giving our battle of upsetors a truly upsetting finale. I really think i should have lost this one, but somehow I made it. randomname probably should have bought the last Hamlets and Peddlers.

Thanks randomname, it was fun playing with you.



« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 03:04:55 pm by LowPants »
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popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #137 on: December 17, 2012, 03:51:29 pm »
+1

I got the first six logs of our match:
game 1
game 2
game 3
game 4
game 5
game 6

game 1

This game was an Ambassador war.  It didn't contain an Ambassador war, it was an Ambassador war, the loser of the war lost the game.
We both opened double Ambassador.  I drew ACCCE, and struggled about whether to return coppers or estates.  I've been told several times by better players that I should return double copper, but I just can't grok it, so I returned an Estate.  nomnomnom returned double copper, and probably not coincidentally obliterated me in the war.
I just really can't get it... Returning two coppers wrecks your own economy so much and makes your Ambassadors collide, how can it be worth it?  Next time I'm just going to do it on faith though.

game 2

While Ambassador made game 1 very first player advantaged, game 2 seemed to dampen first player advantage imo, because imo the opening choices were rock/paper/scissors.  With 5/2, HorseTraders>Minion>Masquerade>HorseTraders.  A Minion opening allows you to get a great Minion stack going, and you can use your terminal action on a Masquerade picked up after the first reshuffle so you have some trashing.  Such a strategy is probably faster than Masquerade BM. 
That loses to a HorseTraders opening, though, because the Horse Traders can collide with that first Minion and subsequent Minions.  And Minions/Masquerade is going to lose out to Minions/Horsetraders in the long term, I'd expect.  And it can be really difficult to pick up a Horse Traders without forgoing a Minion later on, and HorseTraders is most valuable early on.  Note that Horse Traders is great at picking up Minions.
However, Horse Traders loses to a Masquerade opening, because on this board you need to get some amount of utility out of the reaction to make Horse Traders worth it.  Masquerade/BM beats Minion/HT more easily than it beats Minion/Masquerade.

I chose to open Horse Traders, probably because I had a psychological aversion to getting counterd by a HT.  Minion probably would have been a better opening, it would get countered by HT but I could live with that.  nomnomnom wisely took paper for my scissors and played Masquerade/BM after I opened HT.  It paid off.

game 3

Haggler, like Hoard, is pretty good with Big Money strategies and pretty tolerant of Provinces.  For that reason, perhaps, nomnomnom decided to play a Big Money strategy.  I disagreed, because Nobles always tilts a board towards Engines, and Nobles is outstanding with Throne Room.  nomnom started getting Provinces but he couldn't buy enough to end it.  With Nobles in the game, even a fifth Province probably wouldn't be enough.


game 4

Is a big money game with divergent strategies better or worse than an engine mirror?  I don't have an answer to that, but anyway, this was a Big Money game with divergent strategies.  I believed Rabble to be a stronger BM card than Merchant Ship.  It turns out, the "Ranking the Big Money/X terminals" thread agrees with me, by a slim 4 slots.  I still think Rabble was better, but devil's advocate could say that from the second seat, the attack is less powerful, and Remodel is easier to buy for lategame tactics with a Merchant Ship strategy since it doesn't have to worry about drawing Remodel dead, and Merchant Ship collides with stuff less than non-duration terminals.

game 5

nomnom got first seat in an Ambassador war again.  I bought a Lookout, which I'm not sure whether it helps or hurts.  I drew AACCE, and felt compelled to return the Estate rather than the coppers because Lookout was weakening my economy so much (normally I would have little trouble returning two coppers without regrets, because 2 coppers doesn't buy anything anyway).  The fact that I had to do that makes me feel like even with Peddlers around Lookout was a bad idea because if it forces me into bad decisions like that what was the point.
nomnom gets lots of Peddlers, keeping his deck a slim beast.  Mine was of course a mess.  As a wild act of desperation, I buy a Swindler to try to turn a Province into the last Peddler.  I was simply that far behind.  That doesn't work out at all, but it mercifully hastens my end.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/15/game-20121215-044846-526ef48f.html

I looked at this board and was very unsure what I wanted to do.  I joked to omnom that no matter what I picked it would be wrong.  I decided to do a "draw until you have X cards in hand" deck, transitioning into a Crossroads explosion deck.  I open Festival/Crossroads, and but a Jack during the second run through my deck.  The Jack actually misses the reshuffle, so by the time I actually play Jack, I'm so close to transitioning to my Crossroads deck that I don't even want to trash an Estate!  Omnomnom scared me to death by opening with an Herbalist, but he did a mix of Alchemy cards instead of the Philo stone/Herbalist deck I feared.  Would Herbalist/Philo Stone outrace what I did on this board? I think it does.

Anyway, I win this one somewhat decisively, playing one of my favorite archetypes.  Which is what made me super nervous, because I was afraid I had chosen it out of nepotism rather than a good assessment.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/15/game-20121215-050922-7e107fce.html

nomnomnom plays a Swindler.
... replacing pops's Courtyard with an Estate.
... replacing pops's Hunting Party with a Duchy.
... replacing pops's Copper with a Curse.
... replacing pops's Copper with a Curse.
... replacing pops's Copper with a Curse.
... replacing pops's Copper with a Curse.

With that kind of Swindler accuracy, as player 2, I feel like I'm entitled to say I earned this last one.  nomnomnom went for a double tactician deck that uses Mining Villages and Swindlers to ruin my deck while continuing to buy card.  I didn't think that was worth the trouble, and went for a fast (well, it would be fast if he didn't attack it) Hunting Party/terminal deck.  It starts out as a Hunting Party/Courtyard deck, but nomnom swindles both my opening purchases into green cards.  The silver lining was that now the Estate formerly known as Courtyard had the same name as my other Estates, so I could ignore it with Hunting Parties and became free to select a new terminal.  I selected Bishop, so that I could remove the uniquely named Duchy from my deck.  I later do end up doing villages so I can swindle nomnom's stuff. I turn his villages into terminal Noble Brigands, damaging his terminal/village ratio.  When he trashes his Mining Villages for Provinces in the homestretch, his deck stalls really really hard and can't end the game before Bishop plods on to build a strong lead. 

Towards the end of the game, I have to make an agonizing decision whether to buy the penultimate Province, and decide to do so.  It is so hard to buy a vulnerable penultimate province in game seven of a tournament set, even when it seems like the right thing to do!!

Overall omnom played really well.  He never did anything terrible.  I feel I genuinely outplayed him in the games I won, and that he did the same in the games he won.
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LordHedgie

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #138 on: December 17, 2012, 04:23:36 pm »
+16

Final score: LordHedgie 4, Marin 2

I was worried about this matchup, given the great difference in rankings. This is the first matchup I took the time to look over logs from my opponent's games to see their style. Marin wanted veto and point counter, I prefer playing with neither. I compromised and went with no veto but point counter allowed (iso only).

Game 1 - Lordhedgie 49, Marin 33
I admit I got lucky with my Watchtower repeatedly defending me against attack after attack here. Watchtower served as a defense against Swindler, Minion, and Ghost Ship, and I blocked almost all of them. I think my real advantage was in Marin taking Harems without buying a single gold; although eventually I took three Harems, my four golds earned me six provinces.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-120904-147099ac.html

Game 2 - Marin 51, LordHedgie 45
I blew the pooch on this one. I saw a mediocre board and decided I'd ride Philosopher's Stone to a win. I bought my potion, then he bought Embargo, and I said "Dangit! I didn't notice embargo!" Rookie mistake, and I paid for it. The number of times I had 7 and a potion made me realize I easily could have won this game if I had played it well, but I didn't. Marin blocked me perfectly.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-121538-63f77c91.html

Game 3 - LordHedgie 37, Marin 13
This was a game of speed. Marin built a great Minion engine while slowing me down with curses, but I just took too much green while it did it. I picked up five Provinces before Marin started buying VP's, and by that point there just wasn't enough time left.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-122424-8d7bef21.html

Game 4 - LordHedgie 45, Marin 44
A super close game where Marin's choice to use the point counter came to help me tremendously. I took an early lead with lucky Chapel combos, and Marin said he thought he would lose. I remember saying I'm prone to rookie mistakes, and sure enough I let him come back and take a lead through creative use of Farmlands. On my final turn I was down seven with one buy, and I bought a Farmland, trashed a gold, and gained a Province to take the lead and end the game. This could have easily gone either way.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-123525-8e6b8234.html

Game 5 - Marin 55, LordHedgie 34
A kingdom full of attack cards and no defenses... and few +actions. I made the mistake of ignoring Stables, which was about the only chainable card on the board, and I got crushed. Playing with three cards most turns, I really couldn't do anything as he drew most his deck turn after turn.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-124646-ca41f5de.html

Game 6 - LordHedgie 96, Marin 40
This was a Crossroads win, with a twist. I decided early on that Crossroads would build me large hands, and I'd use Great Hall to help it work. With Mine on the board, I didn't need to buy many silvers, so I frequently bought Great Hall or Crossroads with $5. Eventually I was drawing giant hands, so Mine was improving my deck quickly, and I got a Horse Traders for the extra buy.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-125834-ab052dbe.html

In all, there certainly was some luck involved in some of these games, but that's how the game is played. I knew Marin was good, and I played aggressively and fast to capitalize on any good luck I might get, rather than playing conservatively and trying to win through superior strategy alone.
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Qvist

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #139 on: December 17, 2012, 04:42:41 pm »
+2

Wow, now I'm not worried that I lost against you, LordHedgie.
Now admit, whose alt account are you?   :P

popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #140 on: December 17, 2012, 04:52:47 pm »
+3

Mine.  Secretly I'm better than Marin.

I wanted to enter twice.
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Robz888

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #141 on: December 17, 2012, 05:21:10 pm »
+21

Marin's still going to win the tournament, his engine just hasn't kicked in yet.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #142 on: December 17, 2012, 08:47:03 pm »
0

Hey Lord Hedgie, you should have still bought those P Stone's even though they were embargoed, it only makes your deck bigger. But, what do I know, you killed Marin.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #143 on: December 18, 2012, 08:34:47 am »
0

So first up - sorry again for holding things up.

Second - I'm excited that marin is out, because it means that the bracket is no longer already locked.

Third, I defeated heatthespurs 4-2.  He was a much stronger opponent than his level indicated.  His name is a pain, so I will be abberviating him as HTS below

Game 1:
Winner:HTS
38 - 26
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-043452-2b8e7ecb.html
He had 1p, and we both opened warehouse / trader.  He got an early gold, and I mistakenly took an early province. 

Game 2:
Winner:HTS
33:31
Close game involving conspirators.  I violated PPR because I felt that he had the superior deck and the longer it went the worse it was going to be.

At this point I'm very nervous that I'm going to be swept.
Game 3:
Winner: CF
77-63
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-045227-a642fc25.html
Hoard, Black Market, Gardens, Fairgrounds.  Much closer than the score indicates

Game 4:
Winner: CF
43-33
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-050248-f89dc93a.html
We both violated HP + X.  I never even got gold.  I thought I was going to lose on his final turn because if he played everything in his deck he'd have $15 - which would be enough for province + duchy + estate and a 1 point win.


Game 5:
Winner: CF
61-54
A strange one.  I made a smaller deck that could play monuments more frequently, which turned out to be the deciding points.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-051354-91759d02.html

Game 6:
Winner: CF
45-31
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-052245-00815cb0.html
This was the most lopsided match, the game was over as soon as he bought tactician.
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heatthespurs

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #144 on: December 18, 2012, 08:52:39 am »
+1

So first up - sorry again for holding things up.

Second - I'm excited that marin is out, because it means that the bracket is no longer already locked.

Third, I defeated heatthespurs 4-2.  He was a much stronger opponent than his level indicated.  His name is a pain, so I will be abberviating him as HTS below

Game 1:
Winner:HTS
38 - 26
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-043452-2b8e7ecb.html
He had 1p, and we both opened warehouse / trader.  He got an early gold, and I mistakenly took an early province. 

Game 2:
Winner:HTS
33:31
Close game involving conspirators.  I violated PPR because I felt that he had the superior deck and the longer it went the worse it was going to be.

At this point I'm very nervous that I'm going to be swept.
Game 3:
Winner: CF
77-63
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-045227-a642fc25.html
Hoard, Black Market, Gardens, Fairgrounds.  Much closer than the score indicates

Game 4:
Winner: CF
43-33
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-050248-f89dc93a.html
We both violated HP + X.  I never even got gold.  I thought I was going to lose on his final turn because if he played everything in his deck he'd have $15 - which would be enough for province + duchy + estate and a 1 point win.


Game 5:
Winner: CF
61-54
A strange one.  I made a smaller deck that could play monuments more frequently, which turned out to be the deciding points.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-051354-91759d02.html

Game 6:
Winner: CF
45-31
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-052245-00815cb0.html
This was the most lopsided match, the game was over as soon as he bought tactician.

Thank you Captain_Frisk. It is fun playing with you. And thank you for offering many kind advice during the course of the game. I did learn a lot.

I was a bit nervous when being 2-0 up... but I am already quite happy of getting 2 games from a level 40 player  ;D

btw, the 2nd game link: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-044205-bc36c770.html
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 08:54:33 am by heatthespurs »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #145 on: December 18, 2012, 01:43:21 pm »
+2

Third Round
WanderingWinder 4 - 2 Popsofctown

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-171042-710cb681.html
Everyone has me looking for engines, so I spent quite a while trying to figure out which ones would work. I don't think any do. I decide to go Masq/BM. He largely follows, but with a little extra flowery stuff, like a mine, a couple villages, etc. I draw the very ugly $2 hand on turn 3, and go for the hamlet, but I'm really not sure. Anyway, it ends up being pretty close through most of the game. The interesting thing is the masquerade tactics, which you can't get from the log (but can from the video; I will post link soon). Eventually after a bit of a dance, I am able to stabilize a little, have a nice albeit small lead, and grab the last province.
WW 38 - 33 pops

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-173203-f3b7ab48.html
Ah, this game. Governor on board. He opens like he's going envoy-money. I go for apothecary-wishing well, picking up a jester at some point. Well, with no +buy, I should have known this was a mistake. I get... scout! for $5(!) On turn 9(!) This is one of the best decks for it, but well, it's still probably not good, is it? He picks out some shanty town and menagerie (man, I did not think that would be good here, but it connects for him a couple times) business and later governor. I don't really know what he's going for, but he gets way ahead. But he Governor-remodels both his golds into provinces to do so. Both of our decks stall out. Hard. For a LONG time, I need both remaining provinces. On turn 21 I use his governor trash to go duchy->gold, which I quite like. Anyway, he ends it on 24, right as I have enough to get the last province very solidly to win... First turn! :P Obviously pretty bad play, at least from me, probably both of us, but you don't hear me saying I want more scouts that often, so it was fun.
pops 41 - 33 WW

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-174652-b7a77943.html
I do not really understand this one. Well, maybe I do. Sea hag game. He spikes 5 for a cartographer on his first reshuffle, whereas I get $4 and a talisman. And then another sea hag later. Well, the idea with talisman is to get lots of silver and at some point mining villages. It doesn't quite work out. The cartographer is HUGE here - he spent a lot of time working out which $5 he should get, and I think he made the absolute right choice. Later he gets hagglers and is able to get them to work out with provinces a couple times, and I am just dead. Totally shellacked in this one.
WW 24 - 45 pops

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-175357-4f4050c8.html
I was not so liking my chances coming in to this game. I thought treasure map/warehouse was probably the obvious thing on the board, but what do you do with 5/2? I opt for apprentice into the TM/Warehouse. He misses that combo, later being very unhappy about it, though I'm not sure that by that point, he couldn't have still gone for it off his remake open. Anyway, my apprentice is not SO hot, though not TERRIBLE. Turn 4 is TM-Apprentice-copper-copper-copper, I decide to trash a copper (ick). And then turn 6 I have TM-Warehouse-copper-copper-estate, and decide not to play the warehouse. Reason was, there was one card on my deck, which I knew to be apprentice. I figured if I didn't draw TM as one of the first 2 of my next reshuffle, it would be a good while before I could get collision, and that it was pretty unlikely to be in that top 2. I'm not 100% whether this is right or not, but it worked out as I get a naked collision on the next turn.
I thought he could have maybe gone embassy/BM from the get-go, but he only buys 3 of them later on, hoping to clog with the silvers. Well, that doesn't work so well (my apprentice would have loved them anyway). But with an apprentice of his own, he catches up a good bit and we are just neck-and-neck for a while. But with a salvager I've picked up, and the apprentice (a once-popular television show starring Donald Trump), I am able to just muscle through and drain the provinces VERY consistently.
WW 37 - 19 pops

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-180020-6f0ffaf9.html
Scrying pool with like no targets, but possession. Remake and warehouse. Jester and Torturer. Hoard. I figure pool-possession will likely be slow (and susceptible to jestering). I opt for warehouse, largely to get to my jesters quick, and also to help with hoards later. He goes remake into torturer. Well, torturer puts a little bit of a damper on the warehouse, but I end up liking my deck slightly more than his anyway. Still, it's pretty darn close until I seal it out.
pops 35 - 44 WW

Game 6: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-182019-5cac9e95.html
A weird game. 5/2 is probably not so hot, but without a 4-cost (well, potion, but only for golem, so not something you want to open), and outpost (duchy) as the only other five, I do think saboteur is pretty close to mandatory. Probably it would be even better for him than me. Anyway, he declines and opens workshop instead. I am very lucky, given that I'm p2, to hit it before he plays it even once. I go for workshop into fishing villages (silvers after they run) and nobles, eventually GM. He also grabs FV with Workshop, but my saboteur clears many of them out. Eventually he gets a potion and a couple golems. We both have lookout for light trashing. I am able to hit $6 a few times for nobles and GM, and pretty soon have a much better deck. He goes in for some saboteurs and his deck is then to the point that his golems let him play them a LOT. But, I grab a couple colonies to cement my lead against funny business (and expensive stuff is good against saboteur), and head for a three pile ending.
WW 35 - 16 pops

WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #146 on: December 18, 2012, 02:09:05 pm »
0

Link to 1st in a playlist of videos for whole tournament:


Starting at the beginning of Round 3:

popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #147 on: December 18, 2012, 02:41:56 pm »
0

Menagerie was a mistake. 
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #148 on: December 18, 2012, 03:11:36 pm »
0

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-171042-710cb681.html
Everyone has me looking for engines, so I spent quite a while trying to figure out which ones would work. I don't think any do. I decide to go Masq/BM.

I would suspect that Stef would do something like this:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-120817-a339544e.html
but like 2 turns faster...
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #149 on: December 18, 2012, 03:13:09 pm »
0

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/17/game-20121217-171042-710cb681.html
Everyone has me looking for engines, so I spent quite a while trying to figure out which ones would work. I don't think any do. I decide to go Masq/BM.

I would suspect that Stef would do something like this:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-120817-a339544e.html
but like 2 turns faster...

Shouldn't this lose to masq/BM?

HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #150 on: December 18, 2012, 03:19:11 pm »
0

^Not sure. It's at least close. 4th Province on turn 14, and still has 2 Estates. There might be cuter execution and things with Duchies. The deck has 2 Remodels, so there are chances to do good things. But I don't know how lucky the draws were, how the opposing Masq affects it, and what better execution a better engine-builder might be able to pull off.
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #151 on: December 18, 2012, 03:26:48 pm »
0

^Not sure. It's at least close. 4th Province on turn 14, and still has 2 Estates. There might be cuter execution and things with Duchies. The deck has 2 Remodels, so there are chances to do good things. But I don't know how lucky the draws were, how the opposing Masq affects it, and what better execution a better engine-builder might be able to pull off.
The idea is... well there are two ideas. One is that masq is just about as far on turn 14 generally. The other is that against a player who is trashing so much, masq passing is almost like an attack.

popsofctown

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #152 on: December 18, 2012, 03:33:42 pm »
0

Yeah, I don't think an engine would beat Masq/BM on that board.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:34:55 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #153 on: December 18, 2012, 03:34:43 pm »
0

The idea is... well there are two ideas. One is that masq is just about as far on turn 14 generally. The other is that against a player who is trashing so much, masq passing is almost like an attack.
Well Masq on turn 14 can get 4 Provinces, but with its Estates gone. And I think this can probably Duchy-dance better since it has Farming Village and Remodel. But yeah, the Masq "attack" is a reason for concern. As the draws came out here, I don't think it would have hurt, since there is a Copper in every hand until 15, at which point a Hamlet is expendable.

To be clear, I'd probably have gone Masq BM here too, but wouldn't be surprised if one of the top players played this engine better and won.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:36:25 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #154 on: December 18, 2012, 03:41:17 pm »
0

The idea is... well there are two ideas. One is that masq is just about as far on turn 14 generally. The other is that against a player who is trashing so much, masq passing is almost like an attack.
Well Masq on turn 14 can get 4 Provinces, but with its Estates gone. And I think this can probably Duchy-dance better since it has Farming Village and Remodel. But yeah, the Masq "attack" is a reason for concern. As the draws came out here, I don't think it would have hurt, since there is a Copper in every hand until 15, at which point a Hamlet is expendable.

To be clear, I'd probably have gone Masq BM here too, but wouldn't be surprised if one of the top players played this engine better and won.

Masq player can do a little stuff, particularly a second masq at an opportune moment, but I would also say that yeah, I am sure there's some enginey thing that can at least pick up 30% of games off masq/BM, but I doubt it's more than 70%.

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #155 on: December 18, 2012, 03:48:33 pm »
0

I bet there's something at least close to 50-50, but the problem is that the execution is tricky, since there are more decisions to be made. As a result, you're more likely to mess up then engine than to mess up Masq BM, which is why in a tournament setting, I'd go with BM, but I'm intrigued by the engine possibilities.
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #156 on: December 18, 2012, 05:45:22 pm »
+1

Hey Lord Hedgie, you should have still bought those P Stone's even though they were embargoed, it only makes your deck bigger. But, what do I know, you killed Marin.

You're probably right. But as soon as I saw the embargo, I was so busy kicking myself I wasn't thinking straight. I had no idea that match would even be that close.

And Qvist, I'm not anyone's alt account.... I don't play online much, and when I do, I generally don't do well because I get easily distracted and stop paying attention. :) If I helps, I picked up third in the PAX Prime Dominion tournament the year before last; I didn't go last year. Glad I made you feel a little better, though.

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #157 on: December 18, 2012, 06:33:04 pm »
+1

Hey Lord Hedgie, you should have still bought those P Stone's even though they were embargoed, it only makes your deck bigger. But, what do I know, you killed Marin.

You're probably right. But as soon as I saw the embargo, I was so busy kicking myself I wasn't thinking straight. I had no idea that match would even be that close.

And Qvist, I'm not anyone's alt account.... I don't play online much, and when I do, I generally don't do well because I get easily distracted and stop paying attention. :) If I helps, I picked up third in the PAX Prime Dominion tournament the year before last; I didn't go last year. Glad I made you feel a little better, though.

I didn't want to offend you. I basically just made a joke. Quite the contrary, I was basically holding you in high regard.

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #158 on: December 18, 2012, 06:35:58 pm »
+2

Plot twist: he is Marin's alt account.
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #159 on: December 18, 2012, 06:45:41 pm »
0

Beating Marin is very impressive, congrats!
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dondon151

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #160 on: December 18, 2012, 09:48:16 pm »
0

The problem with executing that engine is that the card draw on that board is rather insufficient. This compounds the Masquerade problem, since the engine needs every card it has in order to draw itself.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #161 on: December 18, 2012, 10:28:19 pm »
+3

In Round 3 Mic Qsenoch wins 4-1 over greatexpectations

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-182059-d4975706.html

Scrying Pool/Possession/Nobles/Baron/Jester/Haven
It looks like an obvious Scrying Pool board to me, but my opponent uses Jester quite nicely to slow my deck down and make my Possession turns a little riskier (I am probably a little overcautious on not playing Jester on his turn). He greens hard once I have Possession. Close for a long while but I get a couple of Provinces at the end to more or less seal it. I think the engine is a must here, but it was closer than I expected. It could be that I should just ignore Possession and look to build my engine a little better.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-183206-15823f07.html

He tries P stone, which I Embargo (not such a strong move against P stone, but I think still correct). I go for the Minion engine looking to get stuff out of a loaded Black Market and I have basically perfect luck with the market. I have perfect Saboteur luck targeting down P-stones and Potions. I pull everything from the market that lets me keep getting Minions despite the pile being Embargoed. Not sure how this turns out with more balanced luck, but I still like my strategy. The Black Market was really really good.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-184448-d0187486.html

Tournament/Tactician and Fairgrounds here. Fairgrounds will be 6 points easily. Not sure if Followers is the best first prize but I take it. Close game, not really sure the best way to play the board. Could do a lot more engine building than either of us did.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-185141-86977120.html

Horse Traders/Stables/Ghost Ship/Apprentice
More or less mirror with him getting Stables on first $5 and I get Ghost Ship. I don't have any idea what $5 is best to start with here. He has a little better luck with Horse Traders and Ghost Ship, and he uses Apprentice perfectly to maintain his early momentum and win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/18/game-20121218-190549-3c56eaa5.html

University/Scrying Pool/Torturer/Goons/Courtyard/Forge/Saboteur/Moneylender
Lots of things, not enough villages. We both err pretty badly by not getting a second Potion early, since the only things you really want to buy are University/Scrying Pool for a long time. Neither of us play this particularly well. I think I win here because he doesn't ever get a Scrying Pool and he clogs his deck with Saboteurs.

Thanks for the match greatexpectations.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 10:35:41 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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greatexpectations

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #162 on: December 18, 2012, 11:06:34 pm »
+3

i got roughed up by mic q. i certainly did not play well, but the luck gods weren't exactly smiling on me either. i was a bit more surly than usual so props to mic q for putting up with me.

Game 1: i think both SP and possession are weak here, but he makes it work. unfortunately, i have little competitive experience with possession. (i vetoed it for a while, and these days lots of people turn it down too) i see his open and decide to jump to a lead and bloat. a little lazy, but i figure that he would have to drain pearl divers, and i could aim to end on piles while ahead. i open cutpurse/silver, as it hurts him early and it hurts him while possessed. grumble #1 for me is when cutpurse falls to turn 5 and i can't hit $5 until turn 5. slows down my early buying power, i can't build enough of a cushion, and that's that. i could have won it with a lucky jester hit late in the game, but no dice there and he did well in cursing me pretty heavily with SP/jester.

Game 2: engine potential here, but also some counters to make a mess of an engine mirror. i underestimate the engine and opt for a messy p-stone deck with cache. he likely takes it in the end anyway, but getting sab from the black market and killing my BM and a p-stone by turn 10 of rubs it in.

Game 3: tournament/woodcutter mirror open. i draw $4/$4/$4 and he has a province the same turn i finally hit $5. gg.

Game 4: lady luck favors me and lets me salvage a little of my pride. i hit $5 turns 3-5 and cruise from there.

Game 5: mic q covered it well enough. i would have loved some scrying pools too, i just didn't have the coin in my potion hands. i think what hurt me most was turn 3. i opt for a courtyard, while he goes silver. early cycling is nice, but it hurt my economy, and he hit $6, $7, and $8 price points before i did.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 11:29:08 am by greatexpectations »
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #163 on: December 19, 2012, 09:06:15 am »
0

once again I have a time zone issue - hoping to play my game this weekend sometime, or maybe on friday.
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #164 on: December 19, 2012, 11:05:57 am »
0

once again I have a time zone issue - hoping to play my game this weekend sometime, or maybe on friday.

I am forfeiting my match to ddubois
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #165 on: December 19, 2012, 11:47:46 am »
+1

once again I have a time zone issue - hoping to play my game this weekend sometime, or maybe on friday.

I am forfeiting my match to ddubois

What happen?
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SphinX

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 02:58:01 pm by SphinX »
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playing bla bla bla...

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #167 on: December 19, 2012, 01:32:42 pm »
+1

Playing... 2  - SphinX 4

Being the loser, i would have to speak about lucky draws or other things... You know losers have always bad draws!
but no... sorry
 there were really close games, but SphinX  just played it better than me

Congrats and good luck for your set with WW!

thank you for this tournament that was the first one for me, and i liked it!

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PitzerMike

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #168 on: December 19, 2012, 06:36:50 pm »
+2

once again I have a time zone issue - hoping to play my game this weekend sometime, or maybe on friday.

I am forfeiting my match to ddubois

What happen?

Somebody set up us the bomb.
Main screen turn on ...
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Master Shuffler

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #169 on: December 19, 2012, 07:32:49 pm »
0

 
once again I have a time zone issue - hoping to play my game this weekend sometime, or maybe on friday.

I am forfeiting my match to ddubois

What happen?

Somebody set up us the bomb.
Main screen turn on ...

Maybe he REALLY doesn't like complainers. I think that was his issue with Marin anyway
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #170 on: December 19, 2012, 07:35:34 pm »
0

Naaah, he is just taking a break from things apparently.
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #171 on: December 19, 2012, 08:05:56 pm »
+1

once again I have a time zone issue - hoping to play my game this weekend sometime, or maybe on friday.

I am forfeiting my match to ddubois

What happen?

Somebody set up us the bomb.
Main screen turn on ...

It's you!
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #172 on: December 20, 2012, 01:43:59 am »
+2

once again I have a time zone issue - hoping to play my game this weekend sometime, or maybe on friday.

I am forfeiting my match to ddubois

What happen?

Somebody set up us the bomb.
Main screen turn on ...

It's you!

HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN !!
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KristianBahle

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #174 on: December 20, 2012, 06:27:08 am »
+1

How did marin lost 4-2 ?  :o I don't get why he's not the one going for crossroads/great hall in the last, he's not the guy you expect to go BM blindly...  ???
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Marin

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #175 on: December 20, 2012, 07:35:05 am »
+4

Yes I admit , I played really badly the game with crossroad and great hall... but I think it was the only one where they was something a bit like a engine possible , all the other game was so boring  and I was even seek of playing . I think that for the last game I checked if some village was here, no village so go BM again... but yes it was a huge mistake!

I would have liked to stop dominion on a win of the tournament! ^^ but I was so far of the win thanks to LordHedgie! :p
This tournament is really great but they are just one thing that I don't really like... Why the tournament is without veto? I think that veto mode make the game much more interesting (you can avoid the card that destroy the game like Gouvernor...) and I really think that I would have been better with veto! ^^

Ok so, like I said, I will stop playing dominion (at least for a while...) so I want to say thank you to every one of this forum, I really enjoyed this year full of dominion! :p
Keep playing! ^^
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #176 on: December 20, 2012, 07:39:30 am »
0


I am forfeiting my match to ddubois

What happen?

Somebody set up us the bomb.
Main screen turn on ...

It's you!

HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN !!

All your base are belong to us.
You are on the way to destruction.
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lespeutere

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #177 on: December 20, 2012, 07:51:10 am »
+2

Yes I admit , I played really badly the game with crossroad and great hall... but I think it was the only one where they was something a bit like a engine possible , all the other game was so boring  and I was even seek of playing . I think that for the last game I checked if some village was here, no village so go BM again... but yes it was a huge mistake!

I would have liked to stop dominion on a win of the tournament! ^^ but I was so far of the win thanks to LordHedgie! :p
This tournament is really great but they are just one thing that I don't really like... Why the tournament is without veto? I think that veto mode make the game much more interesting (you can avoid the card that destroy the game like Gouvernor...) and I really think that I would have been better with veto! ^^

Ok so, like I said, I will stop playing dominion (at least for a while...) so I want to say thank you to every one of this forum, I really enjoyed this year full of dominion! :p
Keep playing! ^^
Ah, that's a bit sad. It was always a pleasure to play with you, either witnessing one of those nice little engines you built or even being able to come out on top of your little engine. :-) Hope you'll be around sometimes.
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greatexpectations

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KristianBahle

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #179 on: December 21, 2012, 06:51:53 am »
0

Yes I admit , I played really badly the game with crossroad and great hall... but I think it was the only one where they was something a bit like a engine possible , all the other game was so boring  and I was even seek of playing . I think that for the last game I checked if some village was here, no village so go BM again... but yes it was a huge mistake!

I would have liked to stop dominion on a win of the tournament! ^^ but I was so far of the win thanks to LordHedgie! :p
This tournament is really great but they are just one thing that I don't really like... Why the tournament is without veto? I think that veto mode make the game much more interesting (you can avoid the card that destroy the game like Gouvernor...) and I really think that I would have been better with veto! ^^

Ok so, like I said, I will stop playing dominion (at least for a while...) so I want to say thank you to every one of this forum, I really enjoyed this year full of dominion! :p
Keep playing! ^^

Reviens vite ! :)
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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #180 on: December 21, 2012, 01:29:55 pm »
0

This tournament is really great but they are just one thing that I don't really like... Why the tournament is without veto? I think that veto mode make the game much more interesting (you can avoid the card that destroy the game like Gouvernor...) and I really think that I would have been better with veto! ^^
+1
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Lekkit

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #181 on: December 21, 2012, 02:17:12 pm »
+2

Some people have come to a mutual agreement to play without specific cards, I think that's better than veto, since veto tends to make games that wouldn't have Governor, Tournament, Black Market or whatever card you don't like, less interactive. Because a lot of players use veto mode to play with fewer attacks.
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theory

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #182 on: December 21, 2012, 02:23:40 pm »
+3

Heck, if you and your opponent want to play veto, we don't care.  The rule is only if the two of you can't agree on the rules.  If you and your opponent want to play KC-Goons-Masq boards only, we couldn't care less.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #183 on: December 21, 2012, 02:43:06 pm »
+2

I feel that Veto Mode introduces a crucial strategic decision right at the start which can greatly influence the rest of the game.  While that can be fun, it's not part of the default rules of the game Dominion, and so it seems to me that it certainly should not be the default rule for a Dominion tournament.

But then, we're using isotropic's implementation of Black Market, but I feel that this is out of convenience, since it's there.  But whenever possible without great headache, I feel that the tournament rules should lean towards physical Dominion and not towards isotropic.
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mith

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #184 on: December 21, 2012, 02:44:33 pm »
+1

Heck, if you and your opponent want to play veto, we don't care.  The rule is only if the two of you can't agree on the rules.  If you and your opponent want to play KC-Goons-Masq boards only, we couldn't care less.

That would be a fun theme tournament...
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ddubois

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #185 on: December 21, 2012, 04:03:30 pm »
+1

I feel that Veto Mode introduces a crucial strategic decision right at the start which can greatly influence the rest of the game.
The more opportunities there are for me to outplay my opponent, the more accurately the format represents a measure of skill.  The primary purpose of a tournament is to identify and laud the most skillful.

Quote
While that can be fun, it's not part of the default rules of the game Dominion, and so it seems to me that it certainly should not be the default rule for a Dominion tournament.... But whenever possible without great headache, I feel that the tournament rules should lean towards physical Dominion and not towards isotropic.
http://yourcybercourt.info/fallacies/list.html#sec-25
Needless to say, I do not share this view.

Heck, if you and your opponent want to play veto, we don't care.  The rule is only if the two of you can't agree on the rules.  If you and your opponent want to play KC-Goons-Masq boards only, we couldn't care less.
While true, this is entirely besides the point.  If both people want to play non-veto they can do that too.

But with the rules being that in the case of a dispute, non-veto is default and enforced, you allow the less skillful player to "bring down the competition to his level".  You allow him to maximize the chances that a board comes out "dumb", i.e., has one clear dominant strategy that they can implement as well as a more skilled player, and ride the variance wave to victory.

I haven't vetoed attacks just for the sake of vetoing attacks (except Possession, of course) in a long time.  I veto to make the board more interesting and/or make available divergent strategies and/or present a trap card to lead my opponent down a wrong path and/or ensure a 5/2 split doesn't automatically win the game on the first turn.

Speaking of the latter, identical starting hands is the default enforcement, yes?  That was clearly a decision away from "like the cardboard"/dumb luck, and towards more skill.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 04:06:03 pm by ddubois »
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theory

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #186 on: December 21, 2012, 04:06:04 pm »
+3

See I think Veto Mode is much, much more likely to generate "dumb" boards.  For example, against WW I'd just automatically veto any alt-VP cards (sorry WW for giving away your secret) and do way better than expected.  If you're playing Marin you will just veto KC every single game. 
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #187 on: December 21, 2012, 04:12:13 pm »
+2

See I think Veto Mode is much, much more likely to generate "dumb" boards.  For example, against WW I'd just automatically veto any alt-VP cards (sorry WW for giving away your secret) and do way better than expected.  If you're playing Marin you will just veto KCThrone Room every single game.

FTFY.

But being serious, I agree. I don't think veto mode adds to the strategic depth of the game. I find veto mode to lead to less interesting games on average.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #188 on: December 21, 2012, 04:25:58 pm »
+2

The more opportunities there are for me to outplay my opponent, the more accurately the format represents a measure of skill.  The primary purpose of a tournament is to identify and laud the most skillful.
Well if you just want to test skill, then maybe we should just play chess instead.  We are specifically looking for skill at playing Dominion.  Veto mode is not part of Dominion; it is a variant of Dominion which you have practiced and which is also popular among some others on this forum.  Why give an advantage to people who have more experience with this particular variant?

Quote
http://yourcybercourt.info/fallacies/list.html#sec-25
Needless to say, I do not share this view.
It's not an appeal to tradition in my view.  Rather, I'm arguing that if we wish to see who is best at playing Dominion, we ought to play Dominion, rather than fan designed variants which alledgedly increase the role of skill.  This thread considers whether introducing a doubling cube to Dominion would help to reduce the role of luck over a series of matches.  Should we make that the default for the tournament?  Why or why not?

Edit:  On other points.

Quote
I haven't vetoed attacks just for the sake of vetoing attacks (except Possession, of course) in a long time.  I veto to make the board more interesting and/or make available divergent strategies and/or present a trap card to lead my opponent down a wrong path and/or ensure a 5/2 split doesn't automatically win the game on the first turn.

Speaking of the latter, identical starting hands is the default enforcement, yes?  That was clearly a decision away from "like the cardboard"/dumb luck, and towards more skill.
See?  This is what I mean.  For players who are quite skilled, but who play IRL or even on Goko, and have never dealt with this veto mode variant, they will be at a disadvantage.  They will simply have less experience at the nuance of choosing a card to veto.  Identical starting hands, however, does not present a choice, and therefore provides comparatively little advantage to player more accustomed to this rule variant.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 04:32:46 pm by SirPeebles »
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #189 on: December 21, 2012, 04:31:16 pm »
+2

The more opportunities there are for me to outplay my opponent, the more accurately the format represents a measure of skill.  The primary purpose of a tournament is to identify and laud the most skillful.
Well if you just want to test skill, then maybe we should just play chess instead.  We are specifically looking for skill at playing Dominion.  Veto mode is not part of Dominion; it is a variant of Dominion which you have practiced and which is also popular among some others on this forum.  Why give an advantage to people who have more experience with this particular variant?

Which is a fine sentiment, but we also allow for identical starting hands, which is also a variant. So is there a difference between the two?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 04:48:11 pm by jonts26 »
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ddubois

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #190 on: December 21, 2012, 04:33:17 pm »
+1

See I think Veto Mode is much, much more likely to generate "dumb" boards.  For example, against WW I'd just automatically veto any alt-VP cards (sorry WW for giving away your secret) and do way better than expected.  If you're playing Marin you will just veto KCThrone Room every single game.

FTFY.

But being serious, I agree. I don't think veto mode adds to the strategic depth of the game. I find veto mode to lead to less interesting games on average.

Interesting replies, and good points that validate the non-veto decision.

A couple of counterpoints though:
1) The fact that you are vetoing cards based on your opponent seems like a cool bit of strategy to me.  It's adding metagame, taking in more information, making more decisions with that information.
2) Instead of vetoing the alt-vp card, consider vetoing the Bureaucrat or Trader or Ironworks that makes the his predisposition the right choice.  Instead of banning the Throne Room, ban the glue card (usually the gainer or buy, although in the case of throne room it could be some sole cantrip) that makes the engine viable.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 04:35:01 pm by ddubois »
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greatexpectations

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #191 on: December 21, 2012, 04:45:15 pm »
+4

i'm all for having this discussion for the 100th time, but maybe could we move it out of the results thread?
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Funkiemonk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #192 on: December 23, 2012, 02:38:22 pm »
0

Funkiemonk wins 4-1

Game 1: Funkiemonk 30 - benjigab 25
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/22/game-20121222-150626-d45df51c.html
Ambassador and Jack, with some fishing villages thrown in for the occasional cute draw with Jack.

Game 2: benjigab 61 - Funkiemonk 41
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/22/game-20121222-152244-8ff3f0bf.html
It would be easy to blame this loss on the turn 4 sea hag my opponent pulls from the BM deck, but my remodel open wasn't helping me either.

Game 3: Funkiemonk 42 - benjigab 27
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/22/game-20121222-153402-a11ea018.html
My opponent goes for fool's gold while I try for watchtower/outpost.  With Inn being the only source of +actions, outpost ends up being pretty useless for both of us.  I think Harvest is what makes the difference here.

Game 4: Funkiemonk 50 - benjigab 39
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/22/game-20121222-154544-acc5634d.html
I'm surprised I won this game as I felt I was outplayed.  I had better swindler luck, hitting his swindler turn 4 and his followers turn 16.  I think bag of gold really helped here as did the strong final turn.

Game 5: Funkiemonk 38 - benjigab 25
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/22/game-20121222-155614-cac40e27.html
Also very surprised to have won this.  He gets a jump on the grand markets and KC.  His turn 18 and some end game luck helps me here for sure.
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benjigab

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #193 on: December 23, 2012, 03:15:21 pm »
0

Funkiemonk really deserved the win, even though clearly he got luckier in games 4 and 5. But I also got my fair share of luck in game 2, in which clearly the sea hag from the BM deck gave me the game. Thanks again for a nice batch of games, Funkiemonk !
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LordHedgie

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #194 on: December 28, 2012, 10:32:32 pm »
+5

Final tally - LordHedgie 4, ddubois (VetoPossession) 2

Game 1 - LordHedgie 31, ddubois 22
This was a Young Witch / Curse dominated game. Although I ended up with more of the Curses, I also had more Gold, and won the Province split 5-3. Not the most exciting game I've played.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/28/game-20121228-183317-92547596.html

Game 2 - LordHedgie 46, ddubois 22
Another Young Witch game, although with Tunnels added for extra variety. ddubois took a variety of cards, including Lookout, presumably to try to drop some Curses. I got more Tunnels, and thus more Golds, and won with a three pile ending (Duchies, Tunnels, and Curses).
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/28/game-20121228-184709-7d6c1670.html

Game 3 - ddubois 21, LordHedgie 19
IGG led to another Curse-dominated game, and another obvious three pile ending. ddubois played much better than I, and although we were very close in points I knew he had a better deck. I took a big risk in grabbing the penultimate Duchy, and he picked up the last one to regain the lead and end the game.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/28/game-20121228-185138-688303e5.html

Game 4 - LordHedgie 54, ddubois 34
I tried to take an early lead, and ddubois built a powerful Alchemist-based deck. Near the end I was confident that I'd won as my lead was only three points less than the number of points still in the supply, but then he finally got all the Grand Markets, Throne Rooms, Alchemists, and Banks all working together. I'm still not certain that he didn't have enough points and buys to take the lead, but he held back, and I ended the game the next turn with the final Province. The score is deceptive, this was a close game!
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/28/game-20121228-190351-fb7f2d07.html

Game 5 ddubois 50, LordHedgie 43
I played Bishop, ddubois played City. I knew in the long run he had a better deck (again), so I took another risk with the penultimate Colony. Once again the risk did not pay off, and he picked up the last Colony to retake the lead and end the game. I'm not sure I would have fared any better playing it differently, though, I needed to have ended that game two turns earlier and I couldn't.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/28/game-20121228-190914-ed6cea41.html

Game 6 LordHedgie 32, ddubois 27
Seahag was both of our openings, and once again ddubois took Apprentices to clear out his Curses while I concentrated on scoring. My intent was to Duchy-Duke myself to a three-pile ending before he could Colony up a high score, but the Duchies gave me a strong early lead and I only picked up one Duke before intentionally ending it with a five point lead over him.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/28/game-20121228-191738-a0a8c694.html
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #195 on: December 31, 2012, 12:33:49 pm »
+1

In Round 4 Mic Qsenoch wins 4-2 over boloni

Game 1 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/31/game-20121231-081246-212e09af.html

We have 5/2 split on an Ambassador board. I think about ignoring Amb and going for Mine into Hoard, but Amb into Grand Market looks too strong. I get my deck size down faster but I repeatedly draw my Ambassadors dead without a Village, he gets the first Grand Market and it snowballs from there.

Game 2 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/31/game-20121231-082048-78341f9d.html
I try Hebalist/Pstone against Young Witch money. I don't know exactly what I screwed up here, I think a couple of the silvers I bought should be Herbalists or Estates, but other than that I feel like Herb/Pstone should be strong here. He wins.

Game 3 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/31/game-20121231-083152-4416a19d.html
We have the same idea for decks, but I try to trash earlier with Trade Route, and he seems to overbuy the Conspirators a bit. I think a few more Governors would have helped him out. I end it on piles when I get the chance. I feel like I didn't use my Governors very effectively though, I mostly just drew cards.

Game 4 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/31/game-20121231-084506-19156d0c.html
Tournament game with Tactician where I buy my Province before picking up any Tournaments. I am fortunate to get the three big prizes and the game becomes a little lopsided.

Game 5 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/31/game-20121231-085610-9390ee77.html
Another Ambassador game, this time the players are Border Village, Haggler, Caravan, Walled Village. We both open Caravan/Ambassador. He gets a Haggler on Turn 5, and on Turn 6 can buy a Border Village with Haggler in play. I think the game is lost, but I end up winning the deck size battle decisively and thus the game.

Game 6 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/31/game-20121231-090243-de9f6b20.html
Salvager, Fool's Gold, Embargo, Hunting Party, Remake
He opens Fool's Gold/Salvager, so I open Embargo/Remake. I get two tokens on the FG pile and he picks up four curses in a single turn. I just clean my deck up with Remake and move on to Hunting Parties for the win.

This series had some fun boards, though most of the games ended up lopsided. First player only won one of the games. Thanks for the match boloni.
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Funkiemonk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #196 on: January 01, 2013, 04:37:00 pm »
0

Funkiemonk wins over Lowpants in a very close 4-3 round.

Game 1 - Funkiemonk
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/01/game-20130101-120809-0bc3f9ce.html
Pretty boring board with Horse Traders and Cache.

Game 2 - Lowpants
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/01/game-20130101-121524-dc769bb4.html
I try to go for a Gardens rush with Jack on a colony board.  Chapel helps my opponent stay ahead by grabbing provinces and a few colonies.

Game 3 - Lowpants
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/01/game-20130101-122236-a63df469.html
An interesting familiar/P-stone game.  On turn 11 I choose familiar over P-stone, which I feel was a mistake.  A close game.

Game 4 - Funkiemonk
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/01/game-20130101-123342-54a88abb.html
Torturer-chain game.  I have some good turns with smugglers allowing me to grab more mining villages and torturers.

Game 5 - Lowpants
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/01/game-20130101-124554-6b763f9c.html
I get smoked in this Scrying Pool-dominated game.  He wins the split 7-3 and keeps me pinned for most of the game.

Game 6 - Funkiemonk
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/01/game-20130101-125815-fc0f090e.html
A Vineyards-dominated game where we manage only 8 action cards each at the end.  Young Witch is the difference maker in this one.

Game 7 - Funkiemonk
Forgot to save the log.  A standard Tournament game with Chapel.  I get the Tournament luck by pulling the first collision to snag a Followers.  Pretty much gg at that point.

Overall very well played on Lowpants's part.  A shame the final game came down to who could get luckier with Tournament.  I enjoyed most of these kingdoms, Game 1 had the only real dead board.
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shark_bait

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #197 on: January 01, 2013, 09:00:13 pm »
0

Game 7 - Funkiemonk
Forgot to save the log.  A standard Tournament game with Chapel.  I get the Tournament luck by pulling the first collision to snag a Followers.  Pretty much gg at that point.

Overall very well played on Lowpants's part.  A shame the final game came down to who could get luckier with Tournament.  I enjoyed most of these kingdoms, Game 1 had the only real dead board.


I'd love to see the log for this game.  I agree that Followers is often the best prize but with Chapel for trashing I wonder if there is enough Village/Draw support to make an engine where a different prize would be better.
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LowPants

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #198 on: January 02, 2013, 07:08:46 am »
0


Great games, funkiemonk. Good luck against, probably, WW.

Some additional thoughts:

Game 2
28 rounds for all provinces with chapel and smithy? That is terrible! To my defense, I hit four 7s in the final 7 rounds, with just one province remaining.

Game 3
I think the Hagglers made the difference, giving me gold and Mining Villages.

Game 5
I let some steam off, after the Torturer game ...

Game 6
funkiemonk took always some time to look at the board, before his first buy, while I played kind of reckless. I did not notice the Vineyard, lost the split and the game. Some bad luck though, always hitting my Masquerades dead. I really think they should be able to clean the deck from the curses effectively.

Game 7
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/01/game-20130101-130542-bd4b3986.html
Final coin toss, to determine the winner. I get the better start, but he gets the first price. The hand size reduction kills me, and the curses do not help.
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Funkiemonk

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #199 on: January 02, 2013, 02:53:20 pm »
0

Some (more) additional comments:

Game 3
I think the Hagglers made the difference, giving me gold and Mining Villages.
Yeah on second look I didn't give haggler enough credit.  I really thought explorer was the right play (don't get to say that much and be right).

Game 6
funkiemonk took always some time to look at the board, before his first buy, while I played kind of reckless. I did not notice the Vineyard, lost the split and the game. Some bad luck though, always hitting my Masquerades dead. I really think they should be able to clean the deck from the curses effectively.
I was surprised about that too, I expected to be passed a lot more curses.

And as for game 7 in response to shark_bait, it looks like there was some engine possibility with bridge and walled village on the board.  I remember wondering if trying for some bridge engine was the best play, but I was not comfortable in my ability to play it right, so I decide to keep it simple and hope for the best.
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shark_bait

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #200 on: January 02, 2013, 05:28:58 pm »
0

In game 7, there was no net gain +Card available.  So the feasibility of running an engine against the Followers' discard attack is not good.  Getting that prize is definitely game changing in that set.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #201 on: January 02, 2013, 07:47:26 pm »
+3

In round 4, WanderingWinder advances over SphinX, 4-3

I have to say, this match had my heart pounding, with some zany luck and a small number of really dreadful mistakes.

Videos:

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-144429-fe3fbc13.html
I really don't understand what happened here. We played pretty similarly, I got better luck on my first swindler, and then.... well, pretty bad luck later on, though mostly with drawing moneylenders dead a LOT. I have about the same amount of money as him, but with his zillion villages, he somehow is able to put together province hands pretty consistently. I do not understand this. But I suppose I undervalue how much his farming villages are doing for him - this is probably a lot of it.
WW 25 - 38 SphinX

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-145651-2df41a80.html
I should note that he had first player here, which should have been mine. He pointed this out, but since I had made the game, I felt it was my own fault, and decided to live with it.
I win this one sort of comfortably? Though I don't feel I played very well. We start the same, but then I'm able to get 5p on the first reshuffle, and then a silver, whereas he gets only a wharf, and 2p. Then my familiar misses the reshuffle, and I wonder if I'm in very bad shape, as he has more of an engine than me. But somehow, I am able to spike a very early possession (which I get over king's court), and I also win the curse split 6-4 after expecting to lose it. Eventually I get lots of wharves and such without so many villages, which is probably sorta poor play on my part, but it's hard when I am getting exactly $5 so often. I pick up a king's court later, and have a bit of a lead and am looking to three pile, probably quite wrongly as my deck is long-term better, when he gets a couple of exceptional hands, with zillions of wharves in play. This puts him in a small lead. Fortunately for me, my deck isn't too bad, and then I make the decision to King a possession, and it pays off, as I'm able to get big use out of his wharves myself, take a lead, and then close out piles on the second possession turn.
I really wondered whether BM/Wharf would have taken it here, but with coppersmith, possession, king's court, AND familiar (and a village), I decided not to risk it.
SphinX 9 - 16 WW

Game 3:  http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-150736-945c7ba5.html
He is able to spike a turn 3 forge, which might have just killed me there. I get lots of early wharves, but only a couple villages, and he ends up getting an equal share of the wharves as well. My outpost was certainly a mistake, as I don't have the engine for it. He makes some weird plays with his forge, forging coppers and then buying them back. His mid to late forge decisions were not so good either, as he just sacrificed too much buying power to not get green, and only picked up treasure which he wouldn't really have time to use. But most of all, I have really dreadful collision of wharves, particularly 4 (or was it 5?) going across a reshuffle on my last. Probably I should have kept better track of my deck and not played the wharf to take them over the edge...
SphinX 30 - 27 WW

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-151438-ec7d56cf.html
Another one that I really don't understand. He opens potion, but doesn't buy alchemist (the only potion-cost) until turn 13. I go for swindlers and money, a quick mountebank, and later some hagglers, with villages to supplement. I get not the best luck with villages and terminals, but this is the risk you take. He goes for oodles of king's courts and such, and somehow he is able to get them to collide. A LOT. Which I wasn't expecting with so much junk around. This lets him take a lead and close me out, to take a 3-1 match lead....
WW 24 - 33 SphinX

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-152436-79c1db27.html
The first 'hill', or do-or-die game. I open up with minions, and he follows. But he diverts for two tacticians, whereas I turn away for cities (in a colony game). Eventually with a 4 I get a potion, and later he does the same. I go for transmute at first, and then a couple vineyards later (which was my main reason for getting the potion). He joins me in the cities, but I win the split 7-3, after taking a moment at some point to drain the last minion. His tacticians are just out of place in his deck. Him taking transmute over vineyard didn't help him. I'm able to pile out the transmutes(!), closing out with a big lead (I'd also been able to grab some colonies). I probably didn't play this so well either, but I don't think tacticians were very good at all here.
WW 50 - 17 SphinX

Game 6: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-153604-eb53f9c9.html
Another do-or-die game, and this is the one I'm most proud of. It's an obvious torturer board. We both go warehouse-silver. We both get trading post with our first $5. But I get a crossroads as my second village, and make sure I leave the estates intact. We both take curses liberally, and they run out before too long. We also have zillions of silvers, so I bust out the crowning piece of my plan, a noble brigand. Which proceeds to do very little for me, until it steals a silver on the last turn. I was a little behind most of the way down the stretch, but I was confident I could handle green better (despite his second warehouse). A key tactical thing for me here was how to play the warehouse - specifically, as I had the potential to draw my deck, I wanted to dump treasure with it wherever I had crossroads, rather than dumping green as normal, as this helps my overall draw. Anyway, last turn I hit with my brigand, draw everything, and do a nice trading post on a couple actions to get a little extra cash for a second duchy (which I didn't *need*, but hey, it was nice).
Sphinx 33 - 37 WW

Game 7: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-154608-33f8a44d.html
A hill-hill game. Well, there is swindler, and there's strong stuff in the black market, and villages out, and minion and haven and apothercary and p-stone. And trade route. We largely play similarly. On turn 6, he buys minion for 8; I'm quite sure both gold and especially province would have been better given the board. I overbuy trade route, as they're great here, as all 3 green come off quick, and there is junk around from swindlers. But I get TOO many, and this puts me in pretty bad shape through the midgame. Then I get very lucky down the stretch, hitting a couple duchies to turn into minions, and never hitting any of his provinces. On turn 23, he has a 3 point lead, with one pile gone, only one estate and one curse left. I swindle an estate into haven, and buy the last estate. This is extremely fortunate for me, as he can't empty out the curse, as it would put us in a tie, and he'd lose on the tiebreaker. Next turn I can take a province, but stupidly don't buy the last curse, thinking the game was ending anyway, with my extra buy from trade route. Fortunately for me, I can end it the next turn in the same way.
SphinX 29 - 32 WW

WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #202 on: January 02, 2013, 09:19:16 pm »
0

I should say, you'll note that I probably complain more about shuffle luck in these videos than normal. The two things that sticks out in my mind, though, are the zillion wharf collision in game 3, and both my opening buys (double swindler) being cards 11 and 12 on the first reshuffle

mith

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #203 on: January 02, 2013, 11:48:56 pm »
0

Whoa, that close to being the only repeat in the sweet sixteen. Nice comeback. :)
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2013, 09:01:01 pm »
+2

In Round 5 Mic Qsenoch wins 4-1 against LordHedgie

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/05/game-20130105-171009-05619cef.html
Ambassador, Walled Village, Envoy, Hunting Party, Pirate Ship
He goes for Pirate Ship while I slim my deck down with Ambassador. I actually go too far with this and at one point I have to buy Coppers back. Fortunately I can blow his deck size up so that its unmanageable. I am lucky that he buys a Mountebank, and gets a second Gold over more Hunting Parties.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/05/game-20130105-171635-0d7fa49a.html
Witch, Minion, King's Court, Horse Traders, Philosopher's Stone
I am trying to see how many games I can lose in this tournament going for Philosopher's Stone. I try Pstone/Horse Traders. This board probably should have an engine built, but Witch makes that a little dubious. Anyway, he pairs his KC with Witch and Horse Traders a couple times and I lose.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/05/game-20130105-172745-072cba92.html
Caravan, Scheme, Worker's Village, Conspirator, Oracle, Smithy
This board looks built for Conspirator and there aren't any 5s of note (Duke looks too slow, but maybe could be relevant in a close match). So I open with Worker's Village/Oracle and don't plan on ever buying Silver. My opponent puts quite a lot of treasure in his deck which separates all these lovely actions. I win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/05/game-20130105-173434-af8fa40c.html
Remodel, Fool's Gold, Haven, Harem, Warehouse
He goes for FG/FG, while I go for FG/Remodel. We split them 5/5 (and we never trash any of them). I think maybe his first Warehouse should be a FG, then the split is 6/4 in his favor. Don't have much to say about this one, Haven is pretty cool here, Warehouse doesn't seem as good because of the handsize reduction (need to match 3 FG or 2 FG, Silver, Copper or 2 FG, Gold). Remodel seems like it could be useful throughout the game. Close game, but I win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/05/game-20130105-173937-30a91b2b.html
Cache, Duchess, Gardens
I go for Cache and early greening for Gardens, and he plays a similar strategy. I'm not sure about his Farming Villages. Possibly Explorer could be nice, but we both ignore it in favor of Cache. Early on i get a few annoying $7 hands, while he buys a couple Provinces. I take a couple Duchies before Gardens run out because I actually want the Duchesses. Not sure about this play though since the Gardens end up being worth more. At the end I have really good luck and start drawing $8 hands long after you would expect them, letting me pull ahead and secure the win.

Thanks for the match LordHedgie!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 09:11:10 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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LordHedgie

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #205 on: January 05, 2013, 09:06:55 pm »
+1

I really messed up with the first game, and made a few missteps throughout. Overall, though, Mic Q outplayed me, and I wish him the best going forward!
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #206 on: January 05, 2013, 09:53:36 pm »
0

NOOOO!!!
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #207 on: January 12, 2013, 03:48:54 pm »
+2

WanderingWinder advances to the Division finals 4-3 over FunkieMonk.
Videos can be found here:

Overall, I have to say that the level of play was very close between the two of us here, and I think I might have been outplayed overall real slightly. I think there were two games where he outplayed me pretty significantly, one where I bettered him fairly clearly, and the rest… I think there were one or two where I had a slight edge, but it was all really close. I definitely feel lucky to be here after getting down 3-1 for the second week in a row!
FunkieMonk was also just a real nice and pleasant guy to play against, and we had a nice conversation after the match.

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-101755-06b81d1c.html
FunkieMonk 37 – 13 WW
I want to go for a watchtower/Fishing Village engine into horn of plenty mega-turn. There’s throne room, trading post, caravan, wishing well to support. Potentially there’s some business with Mandarin, but it’s not so likely without provinces. I did consider using it to seed my next hand, but I would need two of them. He opens young witch/Fishing Village (wishing well was the bane) and transitions into herbalist/philosopher’s stone. I didn’t recognize this combo until some time after my first buy, and then I thought, well this mega-turn out to be able to overcome it. No. I defend really well against the curses with watchtowers pretty easily (at some point I take one), but the point is that even delayed as he was, it was just really strong. And the fishing villages let him REALLY load up on herbalists – he actually plays it a little non-standard, by getting a zillion herbalists, two potions, and only a couple p-stones, which he’s able to eventually just repeat and repeat and repeat. And some fishing villages to play all those herbalists. It’s interesting, though I think just one potion would work better, and probably you can go for it from the start, more classically, without the detour for young witches or fishing villages. In any case, my engine never really comes together on any kind of consistent basis, and some of that is luck, but mostly I think it’s just not that strong, and I probably also played it pretty wrong to boot. Anyway, he cleans my clocks, eventually piling out on fishing village, herbalist, and estate (don’t see that every day!)

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-103320-618c28ac.html
WW 37 – 55 FunkieMonk
Let me describe what he did first of all. Basically he goes for tactician+coppersmith+highway, one margrave and some crossroads. Simple, strong. I go for some very very convoluted think where I plan on play 4 highways, drawing stuff with shanty town and a margrave and mostly crossroads, and then upgrading junk into duchies and dukes. I can’t get it to go to plan, pretty much AT ALL. The killing thing here was that I eventually got to where my deck is full of 3-costs, and I had to keep upgrading them and getting… coppersmith, which absolutely killed everything that was going on. I somehow still actually don’t get killed THAT much, probably because duchy/duke is worth a zillion points, but I should point out that at almost no point was I actually in this game really. I think my plan would have been really interesting if you replace something (say watchtower, which was utterly irrelevant) with a 4-cost cantrip, particularly if it were a village (maybe not worker’s). Though I should point out that ‘interesting’ shouldn’t necessarily imply best here, just it’s something that might be competitive.

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-104403-925f1d6e.html
WW 0 – (-4) Funkiemonk
A young witch game where shanty town is the bane, mint and minion and salvager present, along with scheme. I we both go shanty town/young witch. I get a second young witch and more shanty towns. He gets silvers and a scheme (and more shanty towns later). We both get a salvager reasonably early. I am able to get to minion quick, and then a couple nice mints (one early, one after it didn’t matter). I do think his pearl divers are a mistake – yeah, they can be salvaged, but they are extra cards to not be shanty town in your deck, and you can potentially draws them dead. Well, I get a very nice engine roaring, and I am able to hit him with curses pretty repeatedly – the minions help dislodge banes, and of course once some come, they can really flood, lowering your bane density. I could have gained a bunch of points at the end, but I just took a couple turns to pile instead – he wasn’t going anywhere.

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-105051-ba3bbe76.html
Funkiemonk 50 – 38 WW
Chapel with absolutely no +actions. There’s warehouse to sift, and decent enough terminals – monument, haggler, margrave. There’s also cartographer to sift if you want. I go for chapel into monument and money. He goes for chapel into margraves. His second margrave is too much, I think, though he puts it to decent use in a protracted greening battle – the big thing here is that he gets a good amount of treasure before greening. I figure a long enough game should favor my chips, but I can never QUITE get there. I am not sure whether something else, particularly without chapel, might have been better. But the margrave thing looks pretty good to me.

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-105536-d05ea451.html
13 WW – 9 Funkiemonk
Yeah, not a ton to say here. We both open Embargo/IGG. There’s duchy and duke on the board. I get another IGG turn 3, he embargoes duchies, and I basically stroll, getting a few cutpurses and a bunch of IGGs and well, first player basically won the game here. He plays for the short game by greening on estates pretty early, and I end up actually piling them out, and I think it would have been better to go for something longer-term, but you know with the turn disadvantage on this board, and me not drawing terribly, he didn’t have much chance in any case.

Game 6: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-110231-2d78fbed.html
FunkieMonk 40 – 43 WW
A hunting party board with Horse traders. He opens masquerade and gets HT later; actually quite a few of them eventually. I just go straight for HPs, and unfortunately can’t ever get the double buy I look for, though I prioritize them over gold until they’re gone (I’m not sure about that). Anyway, we get into a protracted greening war, and this helps me quite a bit, because I already have 3 estates to deal with, I did get the 6-4 split on HPs, and most importantly he is faster to start than me. It gets down to a point on  the last turn where he is down by 3, and gets a big hand with 2 buys, but there are 2 provinces left and 2 estates left, and 2 piles empty. He goes province and estate, which gives him a lead and if I can’t muster a province, he wins by buying out the last estate. Unfortunately for him, I am holding 8 to start with, and it’s just over. I end up actually winning on the back of 3 estates – the number he trashed. But I would be remiss to not also mention that I was super lucky on the first reshuffle – he passed me a copper turn 3, and I gave him an estate, which cut him off from HP there and got me to 5/5. (He also had collision with HT, though this happens fairly often with double terminal openings where one of them is a drawer).

Game 7: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-111059-a5e30371.html
FunkieMonk 26 – 41 WW
I feel good about this one, at least. I open steward/smugglers to his steward/steward. The smugglers just sort of sits for a while. But we’re both going with big trashing off multiple stewards into big engines. Okay, steward is the only card that draws more than to replace itself, but with market and festival and worker’s village along, it was good. So as I am getting really close to being pared down, the smugglers starts kicking in, and since we’re playing similar strategies, it always gives me something really useful. I can do the gain-and-play a card the same turn trick a couple times. I think he was a little too hot on markets, but it’s not a very big thing at all. Anyway, he gets a hoard, I smuggle it and we start greening – lots of duchy and estate, which, well, may hurt our engines, but they are decent enough, and the big cash is really nice, and we need the points because the game is ending, and… well, anyway, it’s good. I have a pretty good feeling lead, and I nurse it home. Smugglers was good down the stretch, too – when he province+estate bought, I could smuggle his hoard-gained golds, and of course I can smuggle green in certain spots too.


Overall, a very tense, very good match.

dondon151

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #208 on: January 12, 2013, 03:56:24 pm »
+2

Game 1: Watchtower is insufficient draw for a pure HoP engine. I think if you really want to even try to pull it off, you need the Young Witch for sifting to get past your non-HoP cards, and even then you need multiple megaturns.

Meanwhile Funkiemonk played well, but Herbalist-PStone just wants 1 Potion, and probably more PStones.
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jonts26

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #209 on: January 12, 2013, 04:48:01 pm »
0

WW sure has spent a lot of time one game from being eliminated.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #210 on: January 13, 2013, 04:28:45 am »
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Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/12/game-20130112-103320-618c28ac.html
WW 37 – 55 FunkieMonk
Let me describe what he did first of all. Basically he goes for tactician+coppersmith+highway, one margrave and some crossroads. Simple, strong. I go for some very very convoluted think where I plan on play 4 highways, drawing stuff with shanty town and a margrave and mostly crossroads, and then upgrading junk into duchies and dukes. I can’t get it to go to plan, pretty much AT ALL. The killing thing here was that I eventually got to where my deck is full of 3-costs, and I had to keep upgrading them and getting… coppersmith, which absolutely killed everything that was going on. I somehow still actually don’t get killed THAT much, probably because duchy/duke is worth a zillion points, but I should point out that at almost no point was I actually in this game really. I think my plan would have been really interesting if you replace something (say watchtower, which was utterly irrelevant) with a 4-cost cantrip, particularly if it were a village (maybe not worker’s). Though I should point out that ‘interesting’ shouldn’t necessarily imply best here, just it’s something that might be competitive.

I think the main thing here is you not getting a Tactician. It would have provided you with another buy for good scoring and diminished the damage caused by Margraves.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #211 on: January 14, 2013, 06:03:52 pm »
+1

WanderingWinder advances to the Division finals 4-3 over FunkieMonk.
Videos can be found here:
People, watch these vids. They're fun, informative and exciting!!!!
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #212 on: January 14, 2013, 08:23:20 pm »
+1

WanderingWinder advances to the Division finals 4-3 over FunkieMonk.
Videos can be found here:
People, watch these vids. They're fun, informative and exciting!!!!

I agree. I love WW's videos. I have learned a great deal about Dominion from him.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #213 on: January 15, 2013, 09:44:54 pm »
+1

I wasn't sure if I should post the results here, or in the Elite Eight thread, I can repost if that's where they should go.

Mic Qsenoch wins 4-3 over WanderingWinder in the Witch Division Finals

Game 1 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-170907-448df6ff.html

Fool's Gold, Hunting Party, Wharf, Horse Traders, Walled Village, Possession, Horn of Plenty
Fool's Gold game, with a fair amount of engine potential as well. He opens double FG and I go for Horse Traders/FG. I pass on early Wharves to get double FG turns and win the split 6-4. I basically green as soon as I can afford Provinces, but I'm pretty sure this wasn't a good play. I get some pretty lucky draws to keep hitting $8. He tries to build a bit of an engine with HoP, and also looks to Possession. I don't really like the Possession here, but other than that I think probably a more engine like strategy can win here (but it should be close). I eventually secure the win.

Game 2 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-171612-ae1b6036.html

Swindler, Horse Traders, IGG, Duke
Looks like a IGG into Duke board, and that's what we both do. Same openings, but he has better luck with Swindler and HT reactions. I think he probably went for IGG a little too long, but I don't know. Game swings back my way a bit, and it ends closer, but it would have taken a lucky Swindler hit for me to win. I felt like this one was over pretty early.

Game 3 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-172519-edb6f747.html
Baron, Hunting Party, Tournament
In this game I have overwhelming early luck. That's pretty much all there is to it. I think I was wise to build a little before I got my first Province. After I start greening though, my play is a little sloppy (Island), but it doesn't matter too much because I'm so far ahead. I should have gone for Prize Fighter, but I passed on it for a Duchy.

Game 4 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-174141-c89c31c0.html
This is a game where I build a decently strong engine ... about 3-4 turns late. Lots of stuff here. He had a couple really nice hands with FV, Hamlet, Watchtower, Black Market early on that let him build momentum. He uses Apprentice to power through once he gets the lead and make sure I don't have a chance of catching him. I had some bad starting hands with Conspirators at the end, but it wouldn't have affected the outcome, and its mostly my fault for building the deck that way.

Game 5 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-175741-b79a44d4.html
A bunch of stuff for a Scrying Pool engine, which I try, while he goes with Courtyard BM. I feel like the engine is certainly the way to go here, but it is a very close game. I also play the engine pretty poorly. I don't take advantage of University + Salvager nearly enough, and generally overbuild some aspects of the engine (draw) while underbuilding others (spending). My last couple turns are almost completely dead, mainly because of some bad Haven play. It looks like I'm trying my best to throw this one away.

Game 6 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-180858-9a04d2ec.html
Cutpurse, Cutpurse, Cutpurse
I get shellacked by Cutpurse. It is hilarious actually.

Game 7 - http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-181614-01acd21e.html
Salvager, Caravan, Governor, many other things available.
Lots of stuff on the board, but Governor looms large. Hardest card to play ever. I don't know how people use this thing to build engines. I just do the "get lots of Gold and hope first turn carries the day" strategy. Caravan is nice for remodel into Duchy. On his last turn I do that, and have exactly $8 to get the last Province. Probably not the right play from him. But I sure as heck didn't play this one particularly well either.

Fun match, with one of the great Dominion players. Thanks for the games WW!
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Jerk of All trades

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #214 on: January 17, 2013, 02:18:27 pm »
0

That cutpurse game is indeed hilarious .

You must have been really sick of seeing "Mic Qsenoch does nothing."

Who would think cutpurse would be so devastating in a grand market/kings court game
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Titandrake

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Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #215 on: January 20, 2013, 12:13:48 am »
0

Just looked through the Cutpurse log. It's actually pretty interesting how it's essentially a Militia every turn towards the end.
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