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[dondon151]

That version of BM would be strictly better than Woodcutter. (Technically not really when you're in the middle of your action phase and make a mid-turn Victory card buy, but in that case you would just play BM at the end of the Action phase... unless you had 2 in your hand and wanted to activate Menagerie... and you wouldn't have enough actions to play the second one later... stupid edge cases...)

Not that it would be a bad thing. Woodcutter sucks.

[jaybeez]

Hm, you're right actually.  So that would require some kind of penalty for the Action-phase buy (cards cost $1 more if you choose to do that?  I dunno).  But then that gets too complicated.

Or wait, maybe it could give you the option to use one of your buys in your Action phase.  So if you have no other +Buy, that wouldn't really help you except for the special situations like I mentioned.

[popsofctown]

I was glad to discover I am allowed to hate Treasure Map as long as I hate Platinum too.  I do hate Platinum too

[eHalcyon]

Hm, you're right actually.  So that would require some kind of penalty for the Action-phase buy (cards cost $1 more if you choose to do that?  I dunno).  But then that gets too complicated.

Or wait, maybe it could give you the option to use one of your buys in your Action phase.  So if you have no other +Buy, that wouldn't really help you except for the special situations like I mentioned.

Yeah, but it's still an option that you don't have with Woodcutter, and the cards are otherwise the same.  It's a nerf, but it is still strictly better than Woodcutter.

A cost increase would be OK, but it is simpler to give it +$1 instead of +$2.  They are equivalent.

[jaybeez]

Hm, you're right actually.  So that would require some kind of penalty for the Action-phase buy (cards cost $1 more if you choose to do that?  I dunno).  But then that gets too complicated.

Or wait, maybe it could give you the option to use one of your buys in your Action phase.  So if you have no other +Buy, that wouldn't really help you except for the special situations like I mentioned.

Yeah, but it's still an option that you don't have with Woodcutter, and the cards are otherwise the same.  It's a nerf, but it is still strictly better than Woodcutter.

A cost increase would be OK, but it is simpler to give it +$1 instead of +$2.  They are equivalent.

What I meant was, the BM could give you the option to expend one buy in your Action phase instead of your Buy phase.  So if you play the BM and have no additional buys, you could then choose to buy a card either in the Action phase or the Buy phase but not both.  So my version of BM would not allow you to buy two cards in one turn on its own.

[aaron0013]

Hm, you're right actually.  So that would require some kind of penalty for the Action-phase buy (cards cost $1 more if you choose to do that?  I dunno).  But then that gets too complicated.

Or wait, maybe it could give you the option to use one of your buys in your Action phase.  So if you have no other +Buy, that wouldn't really help you except for the special situations like I mentioned.

Yeah, but it's still an option that you don't have with Woodcutter, and the cards are otherwise the same.  It's a nerf, but it is still strictly better than Woodcutter.

A cost increase would be OK, but it is simpler to give it +$1 instead of +$2.  They are equivalent.

What I meant was, the BM could give you the option to expend one buy in your Action phase instead of your Buy phase.  So if you play the BM and have no additional buys, you could then choose to buy a card either in the Action phase or the Buy phase but not both.  So my version of BM would not allow you to buy two cards in one turn on its own.

That does sound pretty cool. It wouldn't do anything special too often, but I love gaining a card and immediately drawing it with my engine. Who knows? We still got Guilds...

[eHalcyon]

Hm, you're right actually.  So that would require some kind of penalty for the Action-phase buy (cards cost $1 more if you choose to do that?  I dunno).  But then that gets too complicated.

Or wait, maybe it could give you the option to use one of your buys in your Action phase.  So if you have no other +Buy, that wouldn't really help you except for the special situations like I mentioned.

Yeah, but it's still an option that you don't have with Woodcutter, and the cards are otherwise the same.  It's a nerf, but it is still strictly better than Woodcutter.

A cost increase would be OK, but it is simpler to give it +$1 instead of +$2.  They are equivalent.

What I meant was, the BM could give you the option to expend one buy in your Action phase instead of your Buy phase.  So if you play the BM and have no additional buys, you could then choose to buy a card either in the Action phase or the Buy phase but not both.  So my version of BM would not allow you to buy two cards in one turn on its own.

Ah, OK.

[ycz6]

I've played two very aggravating Swindler games in the last few games, one of which knocked me out of the tournament. I still can't bring myself to hate the card though. Dunno why.

[jaybeez]

I've played two very aggravating Swindler games in the last few games, one of which knocked me out of the tournament. I still can't bring myself to hate the card though. Dunno why.

It must be the jaunty purple hat.

[Papa Luigi]

Ghost Ship.  I, possibly irrationally, hate it more than life itself.

It just bogs down games, self-contributes to bogging down games, snowballs fairly well (if someone gets an early lucky one, you're going to be hard-pressed to recover if you can't luckily get one soon yourself), and offers no useful decisions.

Cards that affect what goes on top of your deck really mess with me. They slow me down so much. The only one I like is Courtyard because the application is so simple - it's terminal and you can put one of your dead actions on top of your deck to use next turn. That bit is nice.

Ghost Ship messes with me a lot though. Even stuff like Navigator and Cartographer make me take a while to count things out and make all sorts of plans.

But the worst is Secret Chamber. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT. Half the time someone plays an attack card, I don't even know if it's worth revealing and using! I end up just avoiding it entirely unless I want to use it as an action card (like a less-powerful Vault; useful for clogged decks and buying Grand Markets).

[Drab Emordnilap]

But the worst is Secret Chamber. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT. Half the time someone plays an attack card, I don't even know if it's worth revealing and using!

Always reveal it, of course. Then, just pretend you got Ghost Shipped from a 7 card hand to a 5 card hand. (I know you said Ghost Ship causes similar issues, but this isn't any worse than Ghost Shipped. Unless Ghost Ship is the reason you're revealing Secret Chamber. Ew.)

[WanderingWinder]

But the worst is Secret Chamber. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT. Half the time someone plays an attack card, I don't even know if it's worth revealing and using!

Always reveal it, of course. Then, just pretend you got Ghost Shipped from a 7 card hand to a 5 card hand. (I know you said Ghost Ship causes similar issues, but this isn't any worse than Ghost Shipped. Unless Ghost Ship is the reason you're revealing Secret Chamber. Ew.)

Don't reveal if this causes reshuffle @ bad time.

[werothegreat]

If Secret Chamber is the Bane, do you have to do top-deck-fiddly if you reveal it?  Same question with Beggar and Horse Traders re: their thing.

[eHalcyon]

If Secret Chamber is the Bane, do you have to do top-deck-fiddly if you reveal it?  Same question with Beggar and Horse Traders re: their thing.

You choose which part you want to reveal for.  The timing is different anyway.  It goes like this:

Alice plays Young Witch.
Bob may now reveal a Reaction that reacts to opponent playing an attack card.  If he does so, resolve the reaction.
Alice draws 2 cards then discards 2 cards.
If Bob did not stop the attack (i.e. with Moat or Lighthouse), Bob may now reveal the Bane. **
If he does not reveal the Bane (and the attack was not stopped), he gains a Curse.
When Bob gains a Curse, he may reveal other reactions (i.e. Watchtower or Trader).




** I'm actually not sure about this.  If you revealed Moat, can you still reveal the Bane when it comes time for it?  Not that there is any reason to do so, but can you?  I don't think so, because you are no longer affected by the attack.

[AJD]

** I'm actually not sure about this.  If you revealed Moat, can you still reveal the Bane when it comes time for it?  Not that there is any reason to do so, but can you?  I don't think so, because you are no longer affected by the attack.

I believe you're right.

[SirPeebles]

So Moat is technically slightly better when it's the Bane, since you can block Young Witch's Curse after your opponent chooses which two cards to discard.  For instance, if you had revealed a Moat to start, your opponent would know to discard the Saboteur drawn from Young Witch, but may hang on to it if you wait and reveal Moat as a Bane.

[SirPeebles]

** I'm actually not sure about this.  If you revealed Moat, can you still reveal the Bane when it comes time for it?  Not that there is any reason to do so, but can you?  I don't think so, because you are no longer affected by the attack.

I believe you're right.

I don't think the rules address whether you are required to keep your hand secret.

[Beyond Awesome]

So Moat is technically slightly better when it's the Bane, since you can block Young Witch's Curse after your opponent chooses which two cards to discard.  For instance, if you had revealed a Moat to start, your opponent would know to discard the Saboteur drawn from Young Witch, but may hang on to it if you wait and reveal Moat as a Bane.

Except that playing online, the game will pause, so the opponent will know you have a Moat anyway.

[Drab Emordnilap]

So Moat is technically slightly better when it's the Bane, since you can block Young Witch's Curse after your opponent chooses which two cards to discard.  For instance, if you had revealed a Moat to start, your opponent would know to discard the Saboteur drawn from Young Witch, but may hang on to it if you wait and reveal Moat as a Bane.

Except that playing online, the game will pause, so the opponent will know you have a Moat anyway.

Well, unless there's also Secret Chamber on the board.