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[Watno]

BTW, since its not in the spreadsheet anymore:
Full cardlist

If you're referring to my spreadsheet, you guys should still be able to view that. I'm going to keep that one public, then copypaste to the real one I'm going to use. I hope the card texts are clear enough, but I can clarify ones that aren't.

I was just looking at the wrong sheet (or actually, I missed the bar at the bottom), however, the version I posted has colors
If you have some extra time, it would be great if you could add some kind of representation of the stages of the workers cost, consumption and corruption bars, so we don't habe to check somewhere else how much consumption will be if we build an extra worker etc. But that really would just be the icing on the cake.

I usually (well, the two or three times  I played) use the alternate corruption rule too, so I'm slightly in favor of it, but I wouldn't really mind not using it either.

BTW, I'm surprised your opponent survived with just two strength.

[Kuildeous]

Question on Michelangelo: The text in the spreadsheet reads, “Temples, theaters, & wonders produce 1 extra culture per happy face; 1 less civil action for wonder cards.”

I get the first part. Not sure on the second part. Does that mean that you can get a wonder from the card row for 1 less civil action?

[Jorbles]

You guys seem full, but if you need a backup I'm still interested.

[Tables]

Will the alternate corruption rule be in effect?

I’d prefer if it is, simply because there are lots of different things to track, and this would take the sting out of a surprise, and it doesn’t seem to be a big tactical point. I’m ambivalent about the other variants, though. The alternate corruption rule flattens the steep learning curve just a little bit.

I was just looking at the wrong sheet (or actually, I missed the bar at the bottom), however, the version I posted has colors
If you have some extra time, it would be great if you could add some kind of representation of the stages of the workers cost, consumption and corruption bars, so we don't habe to check somewhere else how much consumption will be if we build an extra worker etc. But that really would just be the icing on the cake.

I usually (well, the two or three times  I played) use the alternate corruption rule too, so I'm slightly in favor of it, but I wouldn't really mind not using it either.

BTW, I'm surprised your opponent survived with just two strength.

I will use the alternate Corruption rule in this case. For those that don't know, it means that you can choose for one mine to not produce, which will cost you one resource (assuming you still have a Bronze mine), but save you two from corruption occasionally. I will implement this myself, if it will save you the resource.

I intend to add consumption and corruption representations of some form. It'll probably be in a table for you to look up. It's important information to have available, after all.

I think he got relatively lucky, with me drawing not enough aggressions or wars. It did mean he mostly got less good cards, as he was drawing a lot of them instead, but I think he came out on top as a result of that.

Also, I used that sheet as a base to work from. I have some subtle colours on mine, I might extend them if I think it makes things clearer.

You guys seem full, but if you need a backup I'm still interested.

Thanks! I'll keep it in mind.

Question on Michelangelo: The text in the spreadsheet reads, “Temples, theaters, & wonders produce 1 extra culture per happy face; 1 less civil action for wonder cards.”

I get the first part. Not sure on the second part. Does that mean that you can get a wonder from the card row for 1 less civil action?

Yeah, that's pretty vague. You're correct. I will change the wording to 'taking wonders costs you one less civil action' (which I think is closer to the actual card anyway). I'll go through and check other cards wording before we start as well.

Also as an aside, Sabotage does look at age of wonder, not levels constructed (I was unsure before)

Also here's a possibly divisive question... should Civil cards in everyone's hands be pubic knowledge? As far as I can tell, you never discard them from hand face down except for too old cards at the end of an age. So it shouldn't be too difficult for players to track Civil cards if they wanted.

[Kuildeous]

Also here's a possibly divisive question... should Civil cards in everyone's hands be pubic knowledge? As far as I can tell, you never discard them from hand face down except for too old cards at the end of an age. So it shouldn't be too difficult for players to track Civil cards if they wanted.

I do not have much experience to speak from here. I suppose that in a game that will take weeks to complete, it'd be easy to forget what cards other players have. One could go back and parse through the posts to figure out what people have. Since that information is public knowledge, I could see a public list of what cards are still left. It's not like you're keeping track of what happened 15 minutes ago. You're keeping track of what happened 6 days ago.

I'd be okay with public reminders of what civil cards were picked. I implemented a similar policy in Witch's Brew. Technically, the VPs are secret, but that becomes a moot point when one can go through previous posts, so I keep track of the points publicly.

I do have to confess some bias here. Even though civil cards are public knowledge, I likely won't go through the posts to parse what's happened. I am juggling a few games already and don't really have the time to sift through this with a fine-toothed comb. So, if cards are not public, then I will be at a disadvantage compared to someone who does have the time to sift through. So, keep in my mind that my vote is indeed to my benefit.

[Tables]

Here's what a mock update will look like. Obviously more information can be found in the spreadsheet, so this is basically intended as a summary. I haven't e.g. made the card row or military decks, which is why there's some empty spaces (they're lookups), so ignore those, imagine there's something there. Do you think any extra information should be added?

Current player: Watno
It is currently age A

Watno
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Qvist
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Galzria
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Kuildeous
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Card Row (Check spreadsheet for more details)
1 CA: (removed at end of turn)
1 CA:
1 CA:
1 CA:
1 CA:
2 CA:
2 CA:
2 CA:
2 CA:
3 CA:
3 CA:
3 CA:
3 CA:
Civil Cards remaining: 0

Current Events: 0
Next event: Age
Military cards remaining: 0

[Tables]

Well, apparently I had just enough time today to get things ready.

In theory, I believe we're ready to start. For now, here's the link to the public sheet. I'll send each of your private ones soon, although right now they don't contain any information not in the public ones (as the only hidden information you have is your hand, which is empty for everyone).

When I get back this evening, I'll make a new thread, send you each your personal sheet and we can start properly. For now though you can start thinking about what you might want to do.

Public spreadsheet

Player order:
Watno
Qvist
Galzria
Kuildeous

Current Player: Watno
It is currently age A

Watno
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Qvist
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Galzria
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Kuildeous
Culture: 0
Science: 0
Strength: 1
Culture Indicator: 0
Science Indicator: 1
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: None

Card Row (Check spreadsheet for more details)
1 CA: Homer
1 CA: Alexander the Great
1 CA: Moses
1 CA: Pyramids
1 CA: Revolutionary Idea
2 CA: Hammurabi
2 CA: Rich Land
2 CA: Work of Art
2 CA: Frugality
3 CA: Patriotism
3 CA: Engineering Genius
3 CA: Hanging Gardens
3 CA: Aristotle
Civil Cards remaining: 7

Current Events: 6
Next event: Age A
Military cards remaining: 4

It is turn 1, so:
Watno, you have 1 Civil Action and you may only take cards this turn.
Qvist, you will have 2 CA, same restriction
Galz, you will have 3 CA, same restriction
Kuildeos, you will have 4 CA, same restriction

A small reminder, you can only have one leader per age in either your hand or in play. You can also only have one wonder under construction. Considering the top of the card row, I think the former might be more relevant...

[ipofanes]

You guys seem full, but if you need a backup I'm still interested.

Me too.

Are you going to PM players about their private information (military cards)?

[ipofanes]

What do you think about making turn order geographical? Qvist and I live in Germany as far as i know, while Galz and Kuildeous (that name is complicated) are over in America. I think it might be good if people from the same continent go after each other, so we don't have to wait for the others to get up/home or whatever as much. Events might screw it up though.

Now this is a feature which I would really love to see in BGO <http://www.boardgaming-online.com/>!

[Galzria]

Tables, your "Tuesday" turned into "Monday", and my "Will read rules tonight" turned into "oh crap, I should go read the rules now".

BRB.

[Watno]

To make thinking easier for the others, I'll take the Pyramids for my 1 CA.

Also, assuming Tables would like to play himself too, we'd have 3 more players interested in a game. If you provide me with the spreadsheet, Tables, I'd host for the three of you.

[Tables]

I'd be good with that. I'll PM ipofanes and Jorbles to let them know it's an option.

[Qvist]

So when will this start?

I'm V/LA from Wednesday until Friday.

Also I'm new to this game and have to go through the rules. Maybe it's better if I /out and attend the next game.

[ipofanes]

In the interest of not slowing the game down, I'm good with teams. I am not leaning strongly toward it, but I imagine that with the number of interested parties, I imagine this won't be a problem.

If you don't mind I'd solicit from time to time as long as you don't wait for me to make your move.

[Tables]

So when will this start?

I'm V/LA from Wednesday until Friday.

Also I'm new to this game and have to go through the rules. Maybe it's better if I /out and attend the next game.

Don't worry about it. I'm getting things ready and kinda updating in real time, which isn't the way to do it. Take your time, read the rules and then take your turn when you're ready. I'll be making the thread proper soon (probably this evening, just about out of time now), but don't feel pressured.

[Tables]

In the interest of not slowing the game down, I'm good with teams. I am not leaning strongly toward it, but I imagine that with the number of interested parties, I imagine this won't be a problem.

If you don't mind I'd solicit from time to time as long as you don't wait for me to make your move.

At this point we've gone for playing normally, and for obvious reasons I'd prefer for non-players not to discuss strategy with players, sorry.

[Qvist]

So when will this start?

I'm V/LA from Wednesday until Friday.

Also I'm new to this game and have to go through the rules. Maybe it's better if I /out and attend the next game.

Don't worry about it. I'm getting things ready and kinda updating in real time, which isn't the way to do it. Take your time, read the rules and then take your turn when you're ready. I'll be making the thread proper soon (probably this evening, just about out of time now), but don't feel pressured.

Ok, I'll do what I can, but like I said above. I will not be able to post until Saturday.

[Tables]

That should be fine. Gives me a chance to get everything 100% ready.

For simplicity, if people are okay with it, shall we aim for a proper start on Saturday?

This should give those new to the game a chance to read the rules, get prepared etc., and think about options. In the meantime, I'll leave this thread for questions, and I'll also try and get everything as intuitive to read and follow as possible.

[Watno]

ok with me.

[Kuildeous]

I'm fine with whatever start time you want. I've read the rules and will reread them momentarily, but I don't think that'll change what I do in Antiquities.

Saturday, good. Tonight, also good.

Anyone use Google docs on an Android? I wonder how accessible these are for me when I'm not at a desktop. Is it a pain? I'm sure updating it would be, but does it hold up well for reviewing the information?

[Tables]

I said I'd give Cayvie some earlygame advice, so I'll post it here. Note I've only played twice, and a lot of this is based on what didn't work first time and what did second time.

Don't consider this hard rules, this is mostly advice that will help your civilisation grow without getting stuck in a rut.

Firstly, the important things in the first few turns are resources, science and food. Food is only used for making extra people, so it's probably the least useful by a small factor or those three. Increasing your population and either science, resources or food is a good first move.
Happy faces, culture production and military can be left until a few turns in - one discontent worker will keep you for happiness, until you've increased pop 6 times, which is pretty likely going to be most of age 1. And early culture can be good, but if your advancement falls behind as a result, you can be fighting an uphill battle for the rest of the game. Military can be important from as early as the third turn, if someone lucks into drawing and using an aggression, but you can probably leave it one or two turns more than that.
Don't underestimate the action cards. They take two civil actions over two turns to use, but they can help accelerate you towards what you need.
Think carefully about your choice of leader. You can only take one leader per age, so while a poor Antiquity choice can be fixed if a better age 1 leader comes out soon, a bad age 1 choice can leave you lagging for 1/3rd of the game.
Military actions are really good. Even if you rarely use all of them, drawing extra military cards (and holding more) can be a huge factor. It gives you more control over future events, an easier time building your military, more likely to grab bonus cards, etc. Even if you aren't going military very much, extra military actions are great.
Wonders are expensive, but very strong. Think carefully before starting one. The age A wonders for example take 6 resources to build, that's about 2 turns worth of resources. If you can spare that, go for it. If not, don't.

[ipofanes]

Some early game advice:

There are two Age A events which you can only make use of if you have a content worker. One is to build a warrior and one to build a priest for free. It's generally better to have that spoon in your pocket in case it rains porridge (as we say in Germany). After Age A, having a content worker without anything to do may cost you more food but saves a civil action for later (and may avoid corruption now). I generally wouldn't build one if this causes my consumption to go up, unless the civil action would go waste otherwise.