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[werothegreat]

I'm currently reading this series - I devoured The Golden Compass, and I'm about a third of the way through Subtle Knife.  Has anyone else read these?  Spoilers in spoiler text, please.  For example:

I was all OH NO YOU DI'NT when Lord Asriel went all batshit at the end of Golden Compass.  Talk about a plot twist.  I'm still trying to figure out what Dust is supposed to be - not in the book's universe, but what it's supposed to symbolize/be a metaphor for.  Also whether or not it's a good thing.

[jsh357]

Read through them all a couple of years ago.  Great series, though it's a little tough to decipher at times.  I liked The Subtle Knife the most of the three and enjoyed the B plot of the last book (with the elephant wheel creatures) the most.  If I remember right, Dust isn't entirely fleshed out until the third book, so no worries, you'll have plenty of time to figure that out and decide for yourself.  My favorite character was Lee Scorseby, and I really shouldn't type much more before I start spoiling stuff.

[werothegreat]

I'm trying to decipher it as I go along - it makes for slightly awkward reading - following the plot, and at the same time, figuring out what everything is supposed to represent.

[Captain_Frisk]

Armored Bears.

[eliegel34]

This is one of my favorite series.  The second book is also my favorite.  Its so fun to watch the interactions between Lyra and Will.  Iorek Byrnison is awesome.  I doubt many people have listened to the books on tape, but the voices on it are awesome especially Lyra. 

[ashersky]

I read every one of his books in a row last summer.  Great stuff.

Caused quite a controversy in the US, being called anti-church especially.

[eHalcyon]

I've read all three and really liked them.  Read them back when I was in elementary school, when Golden Compass (or Northern Lights as it is properly titled) was a YRCA.  I owned the set once, but someone borrowed it and never returned it, and I don't remember who it was!

An interesting thing is that Pullman really seems to be anti-God in the story.  That is, from reading the novels, I get the sense that Pullman believes that there is a God, but hates him.  It's kind of odd, and maybe my sense is wrong there.

My favourite thing about the novels was learning the final forms of different characters' daemons.  I really enjoy little character revelations like that.

Some of my favourite characters are Tialys, Salmakia, and their mounts.

[Ozle]

Armored Bears.

If this is in a mocking tone then I approve

If its a serious OMG ARMOURED BEARS!!!! style post then i shall remove my +1

Isn't this another book for children like Potter?

Plus, the film was AWFUL!


"An interesting thing is that Pullman really seems to be anti-God in the story"
Like a reverse Narnia!

[cayvie]

Armored Bears.

If this is in a mocking tone then I approve

If its a serious OMG ARMOURED BEARS!!!! style post then i shall remove my +1

Isn't this another book for children like Potter?

Plus, the film was AWFUL!


"An interesting thing is that Pullman really seems to be anti-God in the story"
Like a reverse Narnia!

you make me sad

[Ozle]

Any particular part? There was an awful lot in that post

[yudantaiteki]

An interesting thing is that Pullman really seems to be anti-God in the story. 

That's part of what bothered me about it; I also thought volume 3 was much weaker than the first two parts.  But it just seemed too blatantly anti-Christian for me (and I'm no conservative evangelical).

[Kuildeous]

Like a reverse Narnia!

I have heard the two series touted as being opposites of each other for that reason.

I would say something about reading too much into it, but I believe that Pullman has stated as such (citation needed).

I guess the main thing is to see if the story can stand on its own without real-world applications. I only read the first of the Narnia books, but I didn't see it as a Christian allegory. Knowing that it parallels Christianity, I can see it, but I can also see the Christ complex in the Matrix too. I can only see the Christian angle in Lion/Witch/Wardrobe because it's been stated as such. Subsequent books may be a different matter, though. I admit ignorance there.

So, is this series obviously anti-church in the real world, or is it a story about a corrupt organization that could be construed to be the church?

It's kind of like how people complained that V for Vendetta (the movie, that is) was anti-Bush because it portrays a totalitarian government.

[Captain_Frisk]

Armored Bears.

If this is in a mocking tone then I approve

If its a serious OMG ARMOURED BEARS!!!! style post then i shall remove my +1

Isn't this another book for children like Potter?

Plus, the film was AWFUL!


"An interesting thing is that Pullman really seems to be anti-God in the story"
Like a reverse Narnia!

So, yes I was clearly mocking.

I read them, I enjoyed the first (if I recall correctly), but I felt that the following just got crazy.

I stuck with it because you gotta respect the reverse Narnia, and if it gets kids thinking, then great... but armored bears?

[jsh357]

So, is this series obviously anti-church in the real world, or is it a story about a corrupt organization that could be construed to be the church?

The latter.  I am also not convinced that the book is anti-God, just anti-control/anti-organization.  Original sin is one idea strongly opposed in the series.  It didn't bother me because I'm against these things as well, but I can see why a Christian would find it offensive on some level.  I don't think these elements distract too much from the narrative, personally.  It's also important to be able to separate fiction from reality and all that jazz, so I still think it's recommended reading for anyone who likes fantasy. 

[eHalcyon]

Well, God and various angels are actually characters...

[werothegreat]

Armored Bears.

If this is in a mocking tone then I approve

If its a serious OMG ARMOURED BEARS!!!! style post then i shall remove my +1

Isn't this another book for children like Potter?

Plus, the film was AWFUL!


"An interesting thing is that Pullman really seems to be anti-God in the story"
Like a reverse Narnia!

The movie was awful.  The pacing was terrible, and they cut the original ending.  I feel like there was a good movie there originally, but New Line just ripped it to shreds.

[Axxle]

The anti-religion tone of the book is no joke, it's what first made me question my faith.

That said, I loved the series although I haven't read it in a decade.

[Ozle]

The anti-religion tone of the book is no joke, it's what first made me question my faith.

Walking on water, original Sin, Contradictory statements, no physical proof....all these things were ok, but GIANT ARMOURED BEARS have made you seen the light!

And its definitely intended to be anti-religion, toned down in the film aparently.

[ipofanes]

Have only seen the film and not read the series, but my wife did and read out some parts to me.

My impression was that the series takes no prisoners when talking about religion, especially Jesuit tradition. The film had all the ingredients for great entertainment (nice animation of those familiars, Steampunk elements, James Bond) but seems to have been slaughtered in the cutting room in order to appease the religious wingnuts, and after that failed and the film didn't rake in enough $$$ we are left with an Arthur and the Invisibles Part II without a sequel, which would have been the last straw for the silver screen version.

[werothegreat]

The anti-religion tone of the book is no joke, it's what first made me question my faith.

Walking on water, original Sin, Contradictory statements, no physical proof....all these things were ok, but GIANT ARMOURED BEARS have made you seen the light!

And its definitely intended to be anti-religion, toned down in the film aparently.

Children sometimes don't see the flaws in the patterns unless they're presented in a way they can understand.

[eHalcyon]

It's been a while since I read the books, but I don't remember it being all that anti-religion until the third book. The movie sucked, but many book-to-movie translations are terrible. I doubt it had to do with appeasement.

[werothegreat]

Just finished it.  I'm rather staggered by how awesome that was.

[Watno]

I hated it when I read it, maybe i was too young.

[Toolshed113]

I read these over ten years ago and remember enjoying them quite a bit. Maybe it's time I revisit them to give them a proper judgement. I was only 13 at the time.