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[Kuildeous]

As for Tommen suicide, the King's room always has guards.  They know no one came in or out.  No sign of struggle.  There's no reason to suspect anyone.

Yet the Mountain was able to approach the King’s chambers and confine him to them. There’s a large gap there that needs explaining. What did happen to those guards? Granted, they likely have permission to let Cersei by, but if Tommen wanted out, it wouldn’t take much to summon the guards.

And even if the guards did let the Mountain through, that just means there are plenty of witnesses that the Mountain showed up at some point, Cersei showed up at some point, and after she left, his body fell from the window.

It would be pretty easy to CSI it to determine the order of events, but it’s still enough to start nasty rumors about an unpopular person.

[Witherweaver]

As for Tommen suicide, the King's room always has guards.  They know no one came in or out.  No sign of struggle.  There's no reason to suspect anyone.

Yet the Mountain was able to approach the King’s chambers and confine him to them. There’s a large gap there that needs explaining. What did happen to those guards? Granted, they likely have permission to let Cersei by, but if Tommen wanted out, it wouldn’t take much to summon the guards.

And even if the guards did let the Mountain through, that just means there are plenty of witnesses that the Mountain showed up at some point, Cersei showed up at some point, and after she left, his body fell from the window.

It would be pretty easy to CSI it to determine the order of events, but it’s still enough to start nasty rumors about an unpopular person.

I thought there was a good amount of time between when Tommen observed the explosion (after which The Mountain left) and him jumping out the window.  The scene with Cersei, The Mountain, and Mistress Shame was before Tommen's jump.  Enough time for guards/steward/whatever to observe Tommen is alive and alone.  And there are always Kingsguard outside the King's chamber. 

[Witherweaver]

I just read on a board, and realized, There were Dorne ships in the finale scene with Danerys.  I do remember seeing the sun sigil, but at the time I had associated it with somewhere in the Mereen area without thinking about it.  Apparently, there were Tyrell ships as well.  So, maybe this scene is even farther ahead than I originally thought.  Dany had already met up with Varys along with the fleets of Dorne and Highgarden and is sailing north to King's Landing.

[eHalcyon]

As for Tommen suicide, the King's room always has guards.  They know no one came in or out.  No sign of struggle.  There's no reason to suspect anyone.

Yet the Mountain was able to approach the King’s chambers and confine him to them. There’s a large gap there that needs explaining. What did happen to those guards? Granted, they likely have permission to let Cersei by, but if Tommen wanted out, it wouldn’t take much to summon the guards.

And even if the guards did let the Mountain through, that just means there are plenty of witnesses that the Mountain showed up at some point, Cersei showed up at some point, and after she left, his body fell from the window.

It would be pretty easy to CSI it to determine the order of events, but it’s still enough to start nasty rumors about an unpopular person.

I thought there was a good amount of time between when Tommen observed the explosion (after which The Mountain left) and him jumping out the window.  The scene with Cersei, The Mountain, and Mistress Shame was before Tommen's jump.  Enough time for guards/steward/whatever to observe Tommen is alive and alone.  And there are always Kingsguard outside the King's chamber. 

There's supposed to always be Kingsguard, but that doesn't mean they are actually always there. We didn't see them guarding Tommen in the episode.

Even if they were there as witnesses, rumours could still start. They belong to Cersei now, so maybe they're lying to cover for her. That's plausible enough for the rumour mill.

[Calamitas]

Any thoughts about the sandsnakes taking control in Dorne? (Aren't there supposed to be some other houses???)

[Witherweaver]

As for Tommen suicide, the King's room always has guards.  They know no one came in or out.  No sign of struggle.  There's no reason to suspect anyone.

Yet the Mountain was able to approach the King’s chambers and confine him to them. There’s a large gap there that needs explaining. What did happen to those guards? Granted, they likely have permission to let Cersei by, but if Tommen wanted out, it wouldn’t take much to summon the guards.

And even if the guards did let the Mountain through, that just means there are plenty of witnesses that the Mountain showed up at some point, Cersei showed up at some point, and after she left, his body fell from the window.

It would be pretty easy to CSI it to determine the order of events, but it’s still enough to start nasty rumors about an unpopular person.

I thought there was a good amount of time between when Tommen observed the explosion (after which The Mountain left) and him jumping out the window.  The scene with Cersei, The Mountain, and Mistress Shame was before Tommen's jump.  Enough time for guards/steward/whatever to observe Tommen is alive and alone.  And there are always Kingsguard outside the King's chamber. 

There's supposed to always be Kingsguard, but that doesn't mean they are actually always there. We didn't see them guarding Tommen in the episode.

Even if they were there as witnesses, rumours could still start. They belong to Cersei now, so maybe they're lying to cover for her. That's plausible enough for the rumour mill.

We didn't see a view looking at Tommen's door from the outside.  Kingsguard are not always in the king's chambers, but they are always standing guard (well, at least one).  I think this is brought up in the book explicitly, maybe it's just kind of implied by the show. (E.g., There was a scene in Season 1 where Jamie is outside Robert's door while he's whoring.)

[Witherweaver]

Any thoughts about the sandsnakes taking control in Dorne? (Aren't there supposed to be some other houses???)

I think the show just doesn't want to go into Dorne deeply. 

[eHalcyon]

We didn't see a view looking at Tommen's door from the outside.  Kingsguard are not always in the king's chambers, but they are always standing guard (well, at least one).  I think this is brought up in the book explicitly, maybe it's just kind of implied by the show. (E.g., There was a scene in Season 1 where Jamie is outside Robert's door while he's whoring.)

Again, yes, they are supposed to be there, but that doesn't mean that they are. They could have left, either willingly or under duress (i.e. the Mountain). We just don't know, precisely because we don't have a view of his door, and neither do the people of King's Landing.

Kingsguard are also sworn to always protect the king, but Jaime still killed Aerys.

[Witherweaver]

We didn't see a view looking at Tommen's door from the outside.  Kingsguard are not always in the king's chambers, but they are always standing guard (well, at least one).  I think this is brought up in the book explicitly, maybe it's just kind of implied by the show. (E.g., There was a scene in Season 1 where Jamie is outside Robert's door while he's whoring.)

Again, yes, they are supposed to be there, but that doesn't mean that they are. They could have left, either willingly or under duress (i.e. the Mountain). We just don't know, precisely because we don't have a view of his door, and neither do the people of King's Landing.

Kingsguard are also sworn to always protect the king, but Jaime still killed Aerys.

But there is no reason to think they weren't, especially since they weren't shown absent, and we as viewers know what actually happened.  At any rate, sure the rumors could exist (and probably do regardless), but I think it's plausible that they don't amount to much.  It's certainly likely that there are multiple people that can verify that the king was alone during the time in question.

The more interesting question, I think, is to what extent did Cersei predict what would happen?  Particularly, her outfit and when she decided to wear it.

[eHalcyon]

The fact that the Mountain entered Tommen's chamber without Cersei is cause for suspicion. Witness verification isn't great when all the witnesses now work for the suspect, who is terrifying with her giant zombie guard.  It's plausible that the rumours won't amount to much, but it's also plausible that they'll matter a lot. The idea that Cersei intentionally committed reticule and fillicide to take the Iron Throne could be used to rally houses against her. Jaime may wonder, and that could eat away at him.

[Witherweaver]

The fact that the Mountain entered Tommen's chamber without Cersei is cause for suspicion. Witness verification isn't great when all the witnesses now work for the suspect, who is terrifying with her giant zombie guard.  It's plausible that the rumours won't amount to much, but it's also plausible that they'll matter a lot. The idea that Cersei intentionally committed reticule and fillicide to take the Iron Throne could be used to rally houses against her. Jaime may wonder, and that could eat away at him.

I think the Jamie and Cersei fracture has already started, even without external drama regarding Cersei's involvement.  Two episodes Jamie had this huge speech how Cersei was such a fiercely protective mother.  Then this happens, and even if Jamie doesn't believe Cersei intended this, it's still a direct result of her actions, and she should have protected him.  Jamie's image of her is beginning to shatter, I think, which was the point of the last scene with them.

[Kuildeous]

At any rate, sure the rumors could exist (and probably do regardless), but I think it's plausible that they don't amount to much.  It's certainly likely that there are multiple people that can verify that the king was alone during the time in question.

The more interesting question, I think, is to what extent did Cersei predict what would happen?  Particularly, her outfit and when she decided to wear it.

That’s true. Nothing may arise from the rumors. Some may talk, but I’m sure people have heard of people who mocked Cersei during her walk of shame ending up dead. That’s enough to quell those rumors.

I’m not sure that she did predict it. She was still a fierce mother and didn’t want her children harmed. I don’t think she would have wanted this to happen. But it has, and she endures it. Besides, she’s always wanted to be in power, and the sudden filling of the vacancy may override her grief for her son. I read her lack of emotion as becoming numb to so much tragedy. And there’s probably a part of her that said, “Well, he brought all this on himself, so why did he run from his mess?”

I think we’re seeing a transformation in Cersei, and it’s one that Jamie doesn’t like. She’s always been pulling the strings with Robert and Joffrey (though that was difficult). Having Tommen act against her shows her that she needs to be in charge.

[Witherweaver]

At any rate, sure the rumors could exist (and probably do regardless), but I think it's plausible that they don't amount to much.  It's certainly likely that there are multiple people that can verify that the king was alone during the time in question.

The more interesting question, I think, is to what extent did Cersei predict what would happen?  Particularly, her outfit and when she decided to wear it.

That’s true. Nothing may arise from the rumors. Some may talk, but I’m sure people have heard of people who mocked Cersei during her walk of shame ending up dead. That’s enough to quell those rumors.

I’m not sure that she did predict it. She was still a fierce mother and didn’t want her children harmed. I don’t think she would have wanted this to happen. But it has, and she endures it. Besides, she’s always wanted to be in power, and the sudden filling of the vacancy may override her grief for her son. I read her lack of emotion as becoming numb to so much tragedy. And there’s probably a part of her that said, “Well, he brought all this on himself, so why did he run from his mess?”

I think we’re seeing a transformation in Cersei, and it’s one that Jamie doesn’t like. She’s always been pulling the strings with Robert and Joffrey (though that was difficult). Having Tommen act against her shows her that she needs to be in charge.

Well, it's that she started putting on a black dress (generally, for mourning) at the beginning.  I suppose it could have been because she new Margaery would die.

[Kuildeous]

Well, it's that she started putting on a black dress (generally, for mourning) at the beginning.  I suppose it could have been because she new Margaery would die.

There is that. I’m absolutely certain she was banking on that, since she hated her anyway.

As for the timing of the dress, it may be that nebulous passage of time that keeps happening throughout the show.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if wealthy nobles had a slew of funeral garb. Seems to be in fashion in this world. But now I'm just justifying things.

[silverspawn]

I wanted Cersei to die so badly for over five seasons now, and she just won't do me the favor.

[silverspawn]

My interpretation of the Cersei-Tommen interaction is that Cersei has basically given up on him even before he died. Ever since she saw her daughter die, she's accepted that she beliefs the witch then, and has said goodbye to her son there. There was this one scene where they were together, but she refused to directly look at him.

So what happened now was not intentional, but it was reckless, and that makes the death her fault. She has no proof that prophecies are inevitable, they probably are not, and he died because she wasn't doing her best to save him anymore.

In any case, she's still fucked now. Queen or not, she's about to have an army against her that is way larger and has dragons. She has no chance.

[LaLight]

Where is Ghost? Didn't see him for the last 2 series.

[Kuildeous]

In any case, she's still fucked now. Queen or not, she's about to have an army against her that is way larger and has dragons. She has no chance.

Not to mention that the people of King’s Landing have got to be demoralized by recent events.

On paper, she doesn’t stand a chance, which would make for a very boring assault as the Mother of Dragons wins. So there will be some story element that’ll even the playing field. I’m sure at least one dragon will die somehow. And now that the Red Woman has been banished from the north, will she decide that the Lord of the Light favors Cersei? Maybe her anger will fuel some powerful magics. We already know she can summon demons to assassinate people. And well, who’s to say that Cersei won’t follow the Mad King and hold the city hostage with miles of green fire underneath?

Oh, and people are clamoring for Jon to be king. Unless a marriage is in the works (guess it’s possible), these two armies may clash before King’s Landing is dealt with.

Cersei’s death is a long time coming. I just hope that with this build-up that it’ll be a very satisfying end. They did pretty well with Ramsay. Also the brother in season 1, though I think making him drink the molten gold would have been better.

[Calamitas]

There is no chance, Cersei is going to reihn for longer than a minute...

a) She has no kind of legitimizaton (succession in feudalism)

b) She has literally no allies:
 - Declared war on Dorne/Reach
 - North/Vale declared for Jon
 - Riverlands are fucked up
 - Stormlands should feel usurped (see. a)
 - Westerlands should feel angry because of Kevan!
 - Smallfolk/people from KL should feel angry because of buring down the sept while burning hundreds alive!

[silverspawn]

Oh, and people are clamoring for Jon to be king. Unless a marriage is in the works (guess it’s possible), these two armies may clash before King’s Landing is dealt with.

You think John will fight Danny? I really doubt that. Several reasons

- Danny is probably fine with leaving the north to him, so he can stay, well, king in the north
- John has as little chance as Cersei does. She has everything now. I know he's not smart, but he's not that dumb
- We now know they're related. She's his aunt.
- The walkers are going to show up. That should have a uniting effect.

[jonts26]

It's Jon. And there's no way dany will be ok with only 6 kingdoms. Also no one but bran knows theyre related so far. I doubt it'll end up with a major conflict. Jon would definitely renounce his kingship and swear fealty if it means getting dany to focus on the white walkers. But there will be some tensions I'm sure.

[Kuildeous]

They’re going to have to add some tension. Things are starting to wrap up too nicely now. This is a change from the fractured kingdoms early on. We have Dany and Snow ripe for the merging, which includes ex-slavers, Dorathkians (sp?), Dorne, Arya, and a unified north. And then we have the Lannisters, whatever allies they have left, probably Theon’s uncle’s insanely improbable fleet of 1000 ships, and possibly the Red Woman’s magic. It’s becoming polarizing.

Which is actually great if season7 is the finale (actually hoping it is). That wraps up the political aspect in a neat bow, and it’s a matter of determining who dies in the battle. But if they intend to continue the story, there will need to be something horrible. Perhaps Littlefinger sabotages the relationship between Jon and Dany so that they are indeed at war with each other. Who knows? Maybe it takes reuniting Theon with Jon to reconcile things since they both know what it’s like to be not fully embraced by the Starks (though Theon’s actions are still unforgivable).

While the White Walkers are a threat, it’s still not being taken seriously. It took great effort for the northern houses to finally rally behind Jon. When he talked about the White Walkers, there was still that look of incredulity. So it’ll be hard to convince everyone else that White Walkers are a threat. Dany might not even recognize them as a threat, but that’s hard to imagine since she commands dragons and is immune to fire, so why would White Walkers be outrageous?

I’m hoping that maybe a dragon is taken down by the White Walkers and turns. That’ll make the threat even nastier.

[Eevee]

Where is Ghost? Didn't see him for the last 2 series.

For episode 9 they said it was either Ghost or Wun-Wun for the battle, doing them both wasn't viable for budget reasons.

[eHalcyon]

There is no chance, Cersei is going to reihn for longer than a minute...

a) She has no kind of legitimizaton (succession in feudalism)

b) She has literally no allies:
 - Declared war on Dorne/Reach
 - North/Vale declared for Jon
 - Riverlands are fucked up
 - Stormlands should feel usurped (see. a)
 - Westerlands should feel angry because of Kevan!
 - Smallfolk/people from KL should feel angry because of buring down the sept while burning hundreds alive!

Mostly agree, but I believe she does have a legitimate claim simply through marriage. Westerlands probably continue to support her because she's still a Lannister. We can only guess at who the Stormlands would support, but they don't seem to have a reason to turn on Cersei. She was joined with House Baratheon through marriage, her beloved children were "Baratheon", and I don't think it is publicly known or believed that Cersei had a hand in Robert's death. So unless they believe she intentionally killed her own son, they may not have any grudge against her.

@Kuildeous I can't see Melisandre joining Cersei. She's not angry at Jon; she's ashamed of herself and maybe her god. She's also a genuine believer, not just randomly picking people to declare as "chosen" or "favoured". Even though she's been banished, she still believes he's the one. I expect she'll continue trying to help Jon, wherever she ends up. Possibly she winds up with somebody else who has had some connection to the Lord of Light, like Beric or even Dany, but it would be quite a leap for Cersei.

[Calamitas]

Dany is not going to be okay with <7 kingdoms!!!
She regards the Starks as "Usurper's dogs", no chance for a good deal there. Jon might decide to kneel just like the last king in the north did during the Conquest.

However, if think there is no chance Dany is going to remain in control of Viserion and Rheagal. GRRM regards dragons as equivalent to nuklear weapons (infinite destruction potential) and there would not be any sense in having three of them if they were to fight for the same side.