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[Witherweaver]

However, that theory (waif playing with her) would proof that being "no one" is just a farce and nowhere near reality within their guild.

Well, or that the girl is not truly one of them.  Not everyone with a creed actually upholds it.

[Haddock]

It could be that she simply didn't confirm the kill.  I don't necessarily agree that it's a mischaracterisation of the Faceless Men; my impression is that the waif is not fully trained, she's just further along than Arya.  So she might well screw up with that.

In any case, I know people survive a lot of crap in this universe, but how Arya is expected to live after being repeatedly stabbed in the gut, losing that much blood and exposing her innards to what is presumably a not-very-clean river is completely beyond me.

[Witherweaver]

It could be that she simply didn't confirm the kill.  I don't necessarily agree that it's a mischaracterisation of the Faceless Men; my impression is that the waif is not fully trained, she's just further along than Arya.  So she might well screw up with that.

In any case, I know people survive a lot of crap in this universe, but how Arya is expected to live after being repeatedly stabbed in the gut, losing that much blood and exposing her innards to what is presumably a not-very-clean river is completely beyond me.

There are some theories that she wore some padding with fake blood, because she knew they would come after her.  She's also leaving a trail of blood (camera makes a point of this), so maybe she's planning an ambush when she's followed.  Of course, that takes foresight that she would get stabbed in the gut and not have her throat slit.  Other theories are that it is Jaquen using her face, sacrificing his life for hers.

[Calamitas]

It could be that she simply didn't confirm the kill.  I don't necessarily agree that it's a mischaracterisation of the Faceless Men; my impression is that the waif is not fully trained, she's just further along than Arya.  So she might well screw up with that.

In any case, I know people survive a lot of crap in this universe, but how Arya is expected to live after being repeatedly stabbed in the gut, losing that much blood and exposing her innards to what is presumably a not-very-clean river is completely beyond me.

There are some theories that she wore some padding with fake blood, because she knew they would come after her.  She's also leaving a trail of blood (camera makes a point of this), so maybe she's planning an ambush when she's followed.  Of course, that takes foresight that she would get stabbed in the gut and not have her throat slit.  Other theories are that it is Jaquen using her face, sacrificing his life for hers.

Its the show, Arya will probably just survive

As far as i know fm can only wear faces from dead people, which is even included in the show ("one way or the other, a face will be added to the hall"). But consistency is quite another matter...

[eHalcyon]

My guess is that The Waif was playing with her, to draw out the death and make her suffer (like she was told not to).  I think The Waif is certain she won't lose, even if she toys with Arya.  Or there's some kind of ruse going on.

This would be a reasonable interpretation. I hope that is the direction they’re going with it, because it plays up the dynamic between the two adherents.

And what Calamitas says makes sense. I don’t recall him commanding to kill, though he did command to not let her suffer, and that’s pretty much the opposite. The Faceless Men are not like normal people anyway; who’s to say what their definition of suffering is?

I’ve been waiting for 5 seasons for Arya to be reunited with her dire wolf. Do I remember the first season correctly that she let the wolf go to save it? All during her time traveling in Westeros, I was expecting that wolf to suddenly show up and save her. If I’m not wrong in the status of the wolf, maybe it’ll show up when she does return to Westeros.

You remember correctly, and there were tantalizing hints as to what Nymeria was up to all throughout the books. Soldiers hearing howls, news of a particularly large and dangerous pack, and Arya's warg dreams.

[Witherweaver]

[Calamitas]

Nice one :-)

[Eevee]

Best episode of the season I thought!

[Calamitas]

Best episode of the season I thought!

What? Why???
I have regarded it as one of the worst...

[Kuildeous]

A girl is awfully spry for someone recovering from serious knife wounds to the gut. I guess this is where suspension of disbelief comes in. Despite that, I thought her progression in the story was pretty good.

I like that Tyrion is seeing his plan fall apart. I can see where he was going with this, but it’s like a case of his Westeros politicking doesn’t mesh well with the might-is-right attitude in the east. Looks like he’ll get a stern talking to (and possible banishment?), which is actually far better than what I predicted, which is someone flat-out murdering him for working with the slavers.

[silverspawn]

I liked the episode. Blackfish, The Hound, King's Landing, all three surprised me in how they progressed. I would not like it if the show became predictable.

That said, I have no idea what the attackers in the east are thinking. I mean... there is this thing called a dragon that can cast fire. Last time I checked ships are made off wood and sink if they catch fire. What do they think is going to happen?

[Kuildeous]

I liked the episode. Blackfish, The Hound, King's Landing, all three surprised me in how they progressed. I would not like it if the show became predictable.

That said, I have no idea what the attackers in the east are thinking. I mean... there is this thing called a dragon that can cast fire. Last time I checked ships are made off wood and sink if they catch fire. What do they think is going to happen?

I'm guessing that word of the disappearance of the Queen of Dragons made it to them, and they thought they would strike while she was away. So they likely would be shitting their pants now.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if someone devised a dragon countermeasure. Drogo was hurt pretty bad when he rescued her from the attack.

[eHalcyon]

I'm disappointed that the show chose to contradict the book and kill off the Blackfish.

At long last, I am totally expecting that Lady Stoneheart will appear before the season ends.  Catelyn is mentioned with increasing frequency, and now Beric Dondarrion and Thoros have returned simply to muse about how they must be here for a purpose.  We already know what purpose that is in the books, so....  (Interestingly, the "experts" reviewer for the AV Club thinks that the possibility is dwindling after this episode.  I get that there was a natural point here for the introduction, but I figure that they just really wanted to remind everybody of Dondarrion and Thoros' resurrection power rather than just bringing it back out of nowhere.)

I thought Arya's storyline was concluded strangely here; I hope the books handle it better.  Well actually, I can think of one way the books are already set up to do better.  Basically, the show hasn't convinced me that Arya has become skilled enough that she could defeat the waif in combat, especially in the dark; the waif has been doing this a lot longer and Arya's gambit at the end with snuffing out the candle doesn't make sense to me because I think it would disadvantage Arya more than her opponent.  Whereas in the books, we've seen Arya demonstrate a skill that the Faceless Men know nothing about -- she's a warg, which could give her the upper hand in certain situations.  Basically everything to do with the House of Black and White has been rather poorly done on the show.  The assassins seem awfully incompetent and impotent compared to their book counterparts.

[Witherweaver]

I'm disappointed that the show chose to contradict the book and kill off the Blackfish.

Well, we don't know that he won't die in some analogous way.  But I was disappointed there.  I don't much care for that "I'm just going to sacrifice myself for no real gain" way of killing off characters.

At long last, I am totally expecting that Lady Stoneheart will appear before the season ends.  Catelyn is mentioned with increasing frequency, and now Beric Dondarrion and Thoros have returned simply to muse about how they must be here for a purpose.  We already know what purpose that is in the books, so....  (Interestingly, the "experts" reviewer for the AV Club thinks that the possibility is dwindling after this episode.  I get that there was a natural point here for the introduction, but I figure that they just really wanted to remind everybody of Dondarrion and Thoros' resurrection power rather than just bringing it back out of nowhere.)

Man, I thought she was going to appear in that scene, as an final before-credits reveal.  (I wasn't checking the time to see it wasn't the end of the show.)  The setting felt so perfect.  I started getting super excited and my heart rate went up.  I really hope it happens, though.  Will be epic.

I thought Arya's storyline was concluded strangely here; I hope the books handle it better.  Well actually, I can think of one way the books are already set up to do better.  Basically, the show hasn't convinced me that Arya has become skilled enough that she could defeat the waif in combat, especially in the dark; the waif has been doing this a lot longer and Arya's gambit at the end with snuffing out the candle doesn't make sense to me because I think it would disadvantage Arya more than her opponent.  Whereas in the books, we've seen Arya demonstrate a skill that the Faceless Men know nothing about -- she's a warg, which could give her the upper hand in certain situations.  Basically everything to do with the House of Black and White has been rather poorly done on the show.  The assassins seem awfully incompetent and impotent compared to their book counterparts.

Yeah, I generally agree here.  But I love Arya so I'm rolling with it.

[Kuildeous]

Well, of the notable deaths in this episode, it's interesting to note that they were not on screen.

That does not preclude them from still being alive. It seems unlikely that those deaths could have been avoided, but I suppose there could be a mortal wound or something. Negotiations seem unlikely.

But for a show that pulls no punches in portraying people dying messily, they were awfully sketchy about those scenes. I could see the fight between Arya and the Waif being glossed over to avoid showing an awkward fight.

[eHalcyon]

I think the choreography in Battle of the Bastards may be the best of the series so far.  It was so good.

Only three minor nitpicks, all of which may have reasonable explanations:

1. Rickon running in a straight line, making him an incredibly easy target.  I'm no expert, but I think zigzagging would have given him a pretty good of evading the arrows, given the amount of lead that would be required.

Explanation: Rickon just isn't very smart even on a good day, and there's virtually no chance of it being a good day since he would have been spending it with Ramsay.

2. Jon falling for Ramsay's ploy with Rickon.  He was warned by Sansa.  He knew they had to show restraint.  He charged ahead anyway.

Explanation: Easy enough -- emotion.  Even with Sansa's warning, he wasn't able to give up on Rickon.  I can imagine Jon holding steady, but his falling to pieces makes narrative sense as well.

3. Sansa didn't inform Jon that an army was inbound from the Vale.  That detail could have saved many lives.  I can think of multiple explanations for this.  From least likely to most likely IMO:

Explanation 1: She's so lacking in military theory and even common sense that she didn't think that the information worth sharing.  I don't think this is the answer though, because it really only needs common sense.

Explanation 2: Sansa didn't know whether Littlefinger would actually come, or if they would make it on time.  Even in this case Sansa should have mentioned the possibility, but it's at least a little more reasn why she would keep it to herself.

Explanation 3: It was part of a condition from Littlefinger that his forces would not commit until victory could be assured, with minimal losses for his people.  I rate it as less likely because I don't think Sansa would be willing to give in to his demands at this point.

Explanation 4: Sansa herself decided (or was convinced by Littlefinger) that it would be better to sacrifice Jon's wildlings in order to guarantee victory.  Without conceding so much ground, Ramsay would not have let down his guard and may have been able to mount a counteroffensive, defense, or at least a stronger retreat.  She didn't tell Jon because she knew Jon would not be willing to sacrifice lives this way.  Maybe she hoped or expected that Jon would have held out better (i.e. that Jon would not fall for Ramsay's provocation), so that something similar could have been achieved without as many losses as actually happened.

Explanation 5: Sansa has decided that Littlefinger is more trustworthy than Jon, or at least more useful in terms of advancing her own interests.  Jon's army isn't really her army, but Littlefinger's army might be.  She decided (or was convinced) that it would be better to sacrifice the wildlings, not merely to guarantee victory but to intentionally let Jon's forces be weakened while conserving "her" own strength.  This explanation seems most likely to me because Sansa's facial expressions and body language made her actions seem deliberate to me, and also because it would make a lot of sense with her character development.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see if Jon calls out Sansa for witholding the intel, and whether Sansa will have an explanation ready.

[pingpongsam]

Arya had just spent some amount of time blind and learning to fight the waif in that state. Note the waif was able to see that entire time. Arya snuffing the candle absolutely gave her an advantage. I'm surprised no one else picked this up?

[Kuildeous]

eHalcyon, I see your nitpicks and mostly agree. I mostly agree with your explanations of the first two.

1. I actually attribute Rickon's flight as the result of blind panic. In a sense, I think they may be playing up Ramsay's expertise in manipulating people. He very specifically said that the sooner Rickon runs, the sooner he can reach Jon. He planted the idea in Rickon's head that a straight line was the route. Rickon—after undoubtedly enduring several days of torture—simply saw an escape and went with the most basic tactic.
But yes, even though I could rationalize that scene, I still found myself exclaiming, zig-zag you dumb shit!
2. Jon has always been one to be ruled by emotion. In some cases, this served him well. He was able to connect with the Wildlings and bring them to his side. And even in stoic moments, like the execution of his murderers, you could see the emotion bubbling inside him. This is an instance where emotion got the better of him. It's interesting because Sansa—who has had a far greater emotional gouging from Ramsay than Jon could ever know—was the more calculated and stone-faced one. One could say that she's becoming inured to the negative emotions and can therefore ride them out better than he can.
3. Lots of interesting explanations here. I am not certain I can really formulate an explanation for that. I thought that it was daft for that to happen and that it was a cheap way to introduce tension. I'd be interested in hearing the official explanation.

Unfortunately, I don't know if that explanation will be coming, because we are now in the realm of TV writers. That's not to say that TV writers are inferior, but they write differently. I haven't read the books, so forgive me if my observation is off, but it struck me in the earlier seasons that a lot of things were covered nicely because they were following the books (mostly). The show's writers could read ahead and plan for it. Now they are in territory where the only thing they are responsible for what happens next. As such, I don't know if they'll incorporate that much introduction into some of the plots. I hope so; the show drew me in, and I'd like to stay there. I'd like to think that these writers have a much greater understanding of planning than the writers of Lost or 24, who were mostly just winging it.

As befits tradition, the ninth episode had some large game-changers. I have to say that the opening scene of this episode was very satisfying. I think it's obviously going to be the focus of the next season.

So that just leaves some loose ends for next week: Where's Bran going? Will Margary's gambit work? Will Davos confront the Red Woman? Will we finally figure out the Hound's story?

[jonts26]

I only have one issue with the episode. Not once did anyone taunt Ramsay by calling him a bastard.

[Kuildeous]

I only have one issue with the episode. Not once did anyone taunt Ramsay by calling him a bastard.

Yeah, the hypocrisy was so strong with him driving point the fact that Jon is a bastard while smugly sitting there with his own bastard mantle.

I guess it's to continue the theme of trying to goad Jon into making a mistake, though Ramsay was insecure enough that it would have fairly easy to goad him into a mistake.

Of course, this is a fantasy world where nobles do this honorably (mostly), so I guess Jon was trying to be the better person. How'd that work out for you?

[Kuildeous]

I suppose one thing I wished they showed was Ramsay's infantry being hesitant to go into battle since they just watched Ramsay order the indiscriminate volleys of arrows on both his men and Jon's. But then again, nobody wants to defy him.

So good job in reminding us what an asshole he is.

[eHalcyon]

Arya had just spent some amount of time blind and learning to fight the waif in that state. Note the waif was able to see that entire time. Arya snuffing the candle absolutely gave her an advantage. I'm surprised no one else picked this up?

I think everyone picked this up, but the problem is that the waif surely went through the same training, and she should be far more practiced at it. Fighting in the dark should give the waif an advantage if she's really a skilled assassin. Her loss suggests incompetency of the faceless men more than it does skill on Arya's part, and that's a failing of the show.

[Kuildeous]

I think everyone picked this up, but the problem is that the waif surely went through the same training, and she should be far more practiced at it. Fighting in the dark should give the waif an advantage if she's really a skilled assassin. Her loss suggests incompetency of the faceless men more than it does skill on Arya's part, and that's a failing of the show.

I don't know that we have enough to assume that their training methods are consistent from person to person. If my memory serves me correctly, Arya's blindness was a result of her letting her self get in the way of the job. She was not no one, so she had to learn a lesson. That lesson involved blinding her and being tormented by the Waif.

Who's to say the Waif's punishment was the same? She may have lost her hearing or the use of her legs. For that matter, maybe the Waif didn't even need punishing and, therefore, Arya had more grueling training than she did.

[eHalcyon]

I think everyone picked this up, but the problem is that the waif surely went through the same training, and she should be far more practiced at it. Fighting in the dark should give the waif an advantage if she's really a skilled assassin. Her loss suggests incompetency of the faceless men more than it does skill on Arya's part, and that's a failing of the show.

I don't know that we have enough to assume that their training methods are consistent from person to person. If my memory serves me correctly, Arya's blindness was a result of her letting her self get in the way of the job. She was not no one, so she had to learn a lesson. That lesson involved blinding her and being tormented by the Waif.

Who's to say the Waif's punishment was the same? She may have lost her hearing or the use of her legs. For that matter, maybe the Waif didn't even need punishing and, therefore, Arya had more grueling training than she did.

You don't think the mystical assassins would train to fight in the dark, relying on their other senses?

FWIW, I'm also partially influenced by the context from the books. The books confirm that it's typical training; it was only a punishment in that Arya was blinded earlier than most acolytes would be.  I can't remember if anything like that was mentioned on the show, but it's kind of a trope for skilled fighters to be able to rely on other senses.

[pingpongsam]

I think everyone picked this up, but the problem is that the waif surely went through the same training, and she should be far more practiced at it. Fighting in the dark should give the waif an advantage if she's really a skilled assassin. Her loss suggests incompetency of the faceless men more than it does skill on Arya's part, and that's a failing of the show.

I don't know that we have enough to assume that their training methods are consistent from person to person. If my memory serves me correctly, Arya's blindness was a result of her letting her self get in the way of the job. She was not no one, so she had to learn a lesson. That lesson involved blinding her and being tormented by the Waif.

Who's to say the Waif's punishment was the same? She may have lost her hearing or the use of her legs. For that matter, maybe the Waif didn't even need punishing and, therefore, Arya had more grueling training than she did.

You don't think the mystical assassins would train to fight in the dark, relying on their other senses?

FWIW, I'm also partially influenced by the context from the books. The books confirm that it's typical training; it was only a punishment in that Arya was blinded earlier than most acolytes would be.  I can't remember if anything like that was mentioned on the show, but it's kind of a trope for skilled fighters to be able to rely on other senses.

Yeah, no, the TV series is definitely intending to portray Arya as having an advantage over the waif due to having been blinded.