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Author Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]  (Read 178551 times)

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Grujah

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #150 on: May 19, 2014, 09:05:26 pm »
+2

Also going back to the very first episode, was I the only one that was completely hooked by the opening credit sequence? I know some people criticize it, but I thought it was a perfect way to introduce the geography and general tone for the story.

Somebody criticized it? Huh?

I am pretty sure it is generally very well liked for its awesomeness.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 09:14:49 pm by Grujah »
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Twistedarcher

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #151 on: May 19, 2014, 09:12:51 pm »
+1

Braavos looks so cool. I'm excited for more storylines there.
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Voltaire

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #152 on: June 02, 2014, 01:14:06 am »
+2

Tonight's episode affected me more than the Red Wedding. As a book reader, I knew both were coming. The Red Wedding was more of a, can't wait to see how it comes across on-screen. The duel was, well, I was at least hoping they'd capture the spirit of it.

And they did, almost too well. Tonight's episode was amazing, not in a "fun" way, but in a powerful way. I feel physically ill. It is rare for any story, book, television, or otherwise, to affect me like this, and I'm trying to figure out why. I think something about this specific moment stripped away the desensitization towards violence I feel (and we all feel) in most stories. Seeing and hearing Alarya's (sp) reaction was powerful.

Damn this story.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #153 on: June 02, 2014, 08:52:08 am »
0

Holy shit.
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theory

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #154 on: June 02, 2014, 09:24:05 am »
0

That seems to be the general reaction: I knew it was going to happen, but my god I still feel sick
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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #155 on: June 02, 2014, 09:35:10 am »
0

Tonight's episode affected me more than the Red Wedding. As a book reader, I knew both were coming. The Red Wedding was more of a, can't wait to see how it comes across on-screen. The duel was, well, I was at least hoping they'd capture the spirit of it.

And they did, almost too well. Tonight's episode was amazing, not in a "fun" way, but in a powerful way. I feel physically ill. It is rare for any story, book, television, or otherwise, to affect me like this, and I'm trying to figure out why. I think something about this specific moment stripped away the desensitization towards violence I feel (and we all feel) in most stories. Seeing and hearing Alarya's (sp) reaction was powerful.

Damn this story.


This is very apt I think.  I left last night's episode without that feeling of awe or amazement, but more feeling disturbed and sickly.  I actually rewatched it 11:30 because I was cooking/eating during the first airing, and the second time I was just as disturbed as the first.  I felt this sense of horror and sadness at watching Oberyn die.  Especially hearing him scream as his eyes were getting crushed in, and hearing Ellaria scream.. it was all very horrible.  I had to turn away the second time.

Plus I was sad because the characterization of Oberyn was just so, so good.

In other news... what's the point of the development between Grey Worm and Missandei?  Do they just want Grey Worm to be a fuller character than in the books?

Development with Sansa was interesting.  I had assumed that Petyr and her worked her thing out together, but it being her idea gives her a lot more development with becoming politically savvy and playing the game.
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yuma

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #156 on: June 02, 2014, 01:12:04 pm »
0



Also, the brief scene with Arya bursting into laughter was brilliant! Although I am getting antsy for her to go to Bravvos.

Everything else had too little screen time to be super compelling. Felt like the ultimate catch everyone up to date (except for Stannis... shouldn't he be heading to the wall soon?) episode with an incredible battle scene at the end.

The Grey Worm plot line was silly. And I felt Sansa developed a little too fast. Felt more like a character development arc you see in a movie where writers a pressed for time. In a TV show there is time for more subtle development
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Voltaire

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #157 on: June 02, 2014, 01:21:17 pm »
0

(except for Stannis... shouldn't he be heading to the wall soon?) episode with an incredible battle scene at the end.

He arrives next episode, which will be 100% the Battle at the Wall.
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Robz888

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #158 on: June 02, 2014, 01:36:55 pm »
0

While I am truly excited to see Stannis go to the Wall, I feel like the show has done an unusually bad job setting up the big Wall battle. In the book, there are a couple skirmishes spread out over the book. Here, we have just had nine episodes of "they are about to attack! They are so close! Manse can kill us anytime, no doubt! Hey, they attacked a village close by!" The threat just feels overblown at this point, because the buildup has been so bad. Why not a shot of Manse's gigantic army closing in on the Wall at the end of the last episode or the one before it or the one before that? We haven't even seen Manse in forever, I feel like he should have been reintroduced to casual non-book viewers. Also, what's the point of having Tormund and Ygritte's stuff going on, if the attacks on the Wall were just going to happen at the same time? I'm sure it will still be awesome, it's just hard to imagine the battle even happening.
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Voltaire

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #159 on: June 02, 2014, 01:38:33 pm »
0

Complete agreement with what Robz said. It's a real head-scratcher.
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pacovf

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #160 on: June 02, 2014, 01:56:07 pm »
0

Haven't caugt up with the series, but it sounds like Oberyn got characterized as much nicer than in the books. While reading the books, he struck me as a villain sort of guy, who happens to get sympathy from the reader because the world he's in is just so [NASTY-WORD!] up. I'd probably put him in the same bag as the Hound, not Tyrion, from what transpires in the books. He's in King's Landing to kill people, and to Hell with everyone and everything else.

Probably the kid abducting and women slapping affects my view on him.
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KingZog3

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #161 on: June 02, 2014, 06:01:34 pm »
0

Haven't caugt up with the series, but it sounds like Oberyn got characterized as much nicer than in the books. While reading the books, he struck me as a villain sort of guy, who happens to get sympathy from the reader because the world he's in is just so [NASTY-WORD!] up. I'd probably put him in the same bag as the Hound, not Tyrion, from what transpires in the books. He's in King's Landing to kill people, and to Hell with everyone and everything else.

Probably the kid abducting and women slapping affects my view on him.

He didn't seem particularily mean in the books. He isn't around for very long. To me it was more like he was like Jaime before his hand got cut off. Impatient and ready to fight anyone
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pacovf

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #162 on: June 02, 2014, 06:50:09 pm »
+1

Haven't caugt up with the series, but it sounds like Oberyn got characterized as much nicer than in the books. While reading the books, he struck me as a villain sort of guy, who happens to get sympathy from the reader because the world he's in is just so [NASTY-WORD!] up. I'd probably put him in the same bag as the Hound, not Tyrion, from what transpires in the books. He's in King's Landing to kill people, and to Hell with everyone and everything else.

Probably the kid abducting and women slapping affects my view on him.

He didn't seem particularily mean in the books. He isn't around for very long. To me it was more like he was like Jaime before his hand got cut off. Impatient and ready to fight anyone

... and ready to throw kids off windows, amirite? I find your comparison quite spot on!

EDIT: for the sake of detail, what he does "on screen" in the books is fine, aside from poisoning his spear with manticore poison, but seeing who he used that spear against, I can hardly feel upset about it.

It's all the stuff that other people tell he did that is not fine. I already mentioned his way to gain custody of his daughters, but the fact that out of seven children, all of them are female, hints at something creepy. We also have him crippling Willas Tyrell, and overall being a dick to the Tyrells, starting again the hostilities between the two families. And you know, poisoning people left and right.

That's not to say he's not badass, 'coz man if he isn't nobody is. But he is quite the opposite of a heroic figure.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 07:08:19 pm by pacovf »
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Eevee

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #163 on: June 02, 2014, 07:20:12 pm »
0

Despite some weak scenes (well, actually just the Gilly stuff), I'd say this was the best episode of the entire series this far.

Loved ALL the Sansa scenes, it's incredible they've transformed her from insufferable to "I can't wait for her to appear again!" so fast, Tyrion delivered the beetle story very well and I like that they are doing stuff like that. I thought Jorah leaving was unbelievable acting from Emilia Clarke and her strongest scene this far, although I somewhat dislike how Barristan doesn't really seem that bad-ass.. I mean, he was smirking during the conversation with Jorah.. and he said he wanted to talk to him man to man before telling Dany, but he just instantly left after telling him he knows, before Jorah had time to say anything?? He almost seems to be avoiding confrontation, which doesn't fit the character in my opinion..

My guess is they are building up Grey Worm for the Harpy to kill (instead of faceless Unsullied). Not the greatest plot development, but I'll take whatever to get Missandei naked. Easily the hottest woman in the show!

The fighting scene was done reasonably well. The choreographics were cool, and Pascal really crushed it. The Mountain was fairly meh, but when the source material is that strong, it's obviously still going to be quite impactful.

Man, it sucks there are only two more episodes and we'll be stuck waiting again.
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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #164 on: June 02, 2014, 07:22:02 pm »
0

Haven't caugt up with the series, but it sounds like Oberyn got characterized as much nicer than in the books. While reading the books, he struck me as a villain sort of guy, who happens to get sympathy from the reader because the world he's in is just so [NASTY-WORD!] up. I'd probably put him in the same bag as the Hound, not Tyrion, from what transpires in the books. He's in King's Landing to kill people, and to Hell with everyone and everything else.

Probably the kid abducting and women slapping affects my view on him.

He didn't seem particularily mean in the books. He isn't around for very long. To me it was more like he was like Jaime before his hand got cut off. Impatient and ready to fight anyone

... and ready to throw kids off windows, amirite? I find your comparison quite spot on!

EDIT: for the sake of detail, what he does "on screen" in the books is fine, aside from poisoning his spear with manticore poison, but seeing who he used that spear against, I can hardly feel upset about it.

It's all the stuff that other people tell he did that is not fine. I already mentioned his way to gain custody of his daughters, but the fact that out of seven children, all of them are female, hints at something creepy. We also have him crippling Willas Tyrell, and overall being a dick to the Tyrells, starting again the hostilities between the two families. And you know, poisoning people left and right.

That's not to say he's not badass, 'coz man if he isn't nobody is. But he is quite the opposite of a heroic figure.

Yeah, but he's really kind of an antihero.  Not a villain.  Like, he's bad, but he's badass, and you want him to keep being badass. 
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Eevee

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #165 on: June 02, 2014, 08:25:06 pm »
+1

There are a couple of things going for making oberyn seem more likable. First, he is an enemy of an enemy (the lannisters) for most readers/watchers, and second, he isn't always well liked which makes him seem more or an underdog.

Definitely a lot of "the end justifies the means" going with people's opinions on him.
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silverspawn

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #166 on: June 03, 2014, 09:46:54 pm »
0

there are certain things in movies and books that hit me much harder than almost anything else. the end of the fight scene was one of them. if the mountain just killed him, even if it was close, i could probably shrug it off easily. but as it happened, it was so... unnecessary, because oberyn already won. dunno why this makes it that much worse for me, but it does. I might actually have trouble sleeping tonight because of it. just thinking about it makes me wanna cry

it's also the first episode that i'm not going to rewatch right away, cause i really dont want to see it again.

i'm glad the mountain is dead though. and i do think it was one of the best episodes so far.

Watno

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #167 on: June 04, 2014, 02:53:06 pm »
0

Although I'm not opposed to speed up Sansa becoming a player on her own, I don't like the implications her scene in the last episode is. What the hell did Littlefinger think would happen after he killed Lysa in front of her. It was kinda obvious she would be questioned about it, ad with the Lords having to come up the mountain,l he had more than enough time to develop a story together with Sansa. Also it screws eith the power distribution between Sansa and LF quite a lot.   
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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #168 on: June 04, 2014, 03:08:35 pm »
0

Although I'm not opposed to speed up Sansa becoming a player on her own, I don't like the implications her scene in the last episode is. What the hell did Littlefinger think would happen after he killed Lysa in front of her. It was kinda obvious she would be questioned about it, ad with the Lords having to come up the mountain,l he had more than enough time to develop a story together with Sansa. Also it screws eith the power distribution between Sansa and LF quite a lot.   

I think this is not necessarily a problem.  Littlefinger's story was that Lysa committed suicide, and Sansa wasn't there for it.  I'm sure they discussed what he was going to tell them, and since she wasn't involved at all she may not have been called for questioning.  He would have had to act surprised when they called for her, as it would be expected of him.  The only thing he wouldn't have accounted for in this case was for Sansa to reveal a different lie in order to make his more plausible.  Everything else he expected.
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Watno

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #169 on: June 04, 2014, 03:23:00 pm »
0

So he thought he could hide the fact she was in the room? Sounds pretty stupid.
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Voltaire

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #170 on: June 04, 2014, 03:23:13 pm »
0

Although I'm not opposed to speed up Sansa becoming a player on her own, I don't like the implications her scene in the last episode is. What the hell did Littlefinger think would happen after he killed Lysa in front of her. It was kinda obvious she would be questioned about it, ad with the Lords having to come up the mountain,l he had more than enough time to develop a story together with Sansa. Also it screws eith the power distribution between Sansa and LF quite a lot.   

It changes the power distribution, but I think that's fine because I think that's going to happen early in Book 6 anyway. So we saw Sansa at the end of Book 5 plot-wise but with character from early Book 6. Being out-of-sync isn't necessarily a problem (like how Arya is a cold-blooded killer before going to Braavos in the show, which is different but fine in my book).
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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #171 on: June 04, 2014, 03:28:42 pm »
0

So he thought he could hide the fact she was in the room? Sounds pretty stupid.

Well no one else was there.  Or even if that wasn't part of his story, it's more believable for them to call upon Sansa and him act like he wasn't expecting it or didn't want them to then for him to say "Look ask my niece, she'll tell you I'm innocent."
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Robz888

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #174 on: June 08, 2014, 11:26:19 pm »
0

Spoilers for the latest episode to follow:

I don't want to come off as too harshly critical. It was a stunning accomplishment, the battle episode. Very high quality, very well made. Some terrific shots. I loved everything that happened atop the wall, especially, and with the giants. The score was impressive. And unlike the Blackwater, it was very easy to understand what was happening at all times.

In all other ways, however, I would say the Blackwater battle was superior. I think it mostly comes down to character and plotting. I know who Grenn, Edd, and Pyp are because I read the books. Here, we basically only know them because they have had lines now and then. The deaths of some of these people didn't have much emotional weight, given that they aren't fleshed out characters whatsoever. Even Ygritte has been reduced to basically nothing this season, since they've barely shown her. The Blackwater, in contrast, had real stakes for tons of consequential and well-defined characters, so it was ultimately more gripping. Also, it made more narrative sense and told a complete story. The Wall battle was essentially just a battle, and nothing is resolved by the end. Since the writers decided to condense this story to one episode, I really, really thought they were going to wrap the whole thing up. I was annoyed that a certain arrival did not take place, because it seems like this will delay certain events I was looking forward to seeing until the next season. That's fairly grating, given the mega time waste that was Craster's Keep this season.

Also, Jon deciding to confront Manse by himself makes a lot less sense than Thorne pressuring him to do it, as happened in the books. Oh well.
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