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Author Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]  (Read 178575 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #75 on: April 18, 2014, 12:35:54 am »
0

I've read the books, so it's fun to see you all theorizing. In reality (serous spoilers) Sansa had nothing to do with the murder. Neither did Little Finger. LF set-up a plan to help Sansa escape, because she reminds him of Catelynn. It is the Tyrells that murdered Jofferey because they knew he would be an awful king.

Uh.. are you sure?  We know Sansa was not knowingly involved, but Dontos gave her the hair net.  That implicates Littlefinger much more than the Tyrells.
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jonts26

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #76 on: April 18, 2014, 12:43:30 am »
+1

I've read the books, so it's fun to see you all theorizing. In reality (serous spoilers) Sansa had nothing to do with the murder. Neither did Little Finger. LF set-up a plan to help Sansa escape, because she reminds him of Catelynn. It is the Tyrells that murdered Jofferey because they knew he would be an awful king.

I think most of the people theorizing have read the books. LF most definitely played a part in the murder. He planned for dontos to give sansa the poison in the hairnet. The question people are asking is WHY he and the QoT planned it this way, when it could have been a lot simpler.
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Dsell

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #77 on: April 18, 2014, 02:17:21 am »
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I'm just a lowly show watcher so I can't really read or participate in this discussion, but I just watched the most recent episode and I wanted to say FUCK yeah die you little piece of shit!!!

Just watched that toniiiiiiiigggghhhhhttttt.

And there was much rejoicing.
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Jake L

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #78 on: April 18, 2014, 05:20:39 am »
0

After a careful rereading I find the blog  http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html very compelling.

In a nutshell, the series is based on Norse  mythology and will culminate in a war between the children of the forests and mankind, with most of the important surviving main characters fighting on the side of the Children against humanity.  Many assume Dany and her dragons and riders (song of fire) will be pitted against the Others (song of ice), but this blogger believes they will be on the same side along with Bran the Greenseer and the other Stark kids in second lives as Direwolves against humanity, whose forces will be lead by Jaime Lannister.
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KingZog3

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #79 on: April 18, 2014, 09:47:12 am »
0

I've read the books, so it's fun to see you all theorizing. In reality (serous spoilers) Sansa had nothing to do with the murder. Neither did Little Finger. LF set-up a plan to help Sansa escape, because she reminds him of Catelynn. It is the Tyrells that murdered Jofferey because they knew he would be an awful king.

I think most of the people theorizing have read the books. LF most definitely played a part in the murder. His wife has the hair net, he's getting humiliated, now everyone thinks he did it and LF can walk away freely.

Right, of course. Not sure why I said LF had nothing to do with it. The point of planning it this way to make it look like Tyrion did it. That way LF can walk away freely.
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Watno

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2014, 09:59:44 am »
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But noone even knows LF was in the proximity. Also the fact that the poison was allegedly in Sansa's hair is never revealed to the Lannisers I think. The hairnet thing is totally unnecessary in the plan to implicate Tyrion.
@pacovf I don't think the Tyrelsl had reason to hope to get Sansa under their control again after Tywin had married her to Tyrion.
Maybe the QoT didn't even put the poison in the wine, but Margeary put it in the cake. That would be a lot easier to do discreetly than ripping a stone out of someone's hairnet.
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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #81 on: April 21, 2014, 12:12:15 am »
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Oberon is quickly becoming my favorite show character.  He was pretty cool in the books, but a lot less focus was on him (until the trial).  But in the show he's awesome in every moment he's on screen.
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KingZog3

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #82 on: April 21, 2014, 03:45:21 pm »
+1

Oberon is quickly becoming my favorite show character.  He was pretty cool in the books, but a lot less focus was on him (until the trial).  But in the show he's awesome in every moment he's on screen.

A lot of the side characters have more screen time, just because they are paying actors to be on the show. He doesn't really do much in the books. Even the trail is mostly just 1 chapter or 2.
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Voltaire

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #83 on: April 21, 2014, 06:56:26 pm »
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So I don't necessarily want to start a big discussion about it (because man the internet has soured me on talking about Serious Things) but I've heard that the reason the director of this week's episode has that horrible tone-deaf quote about "I didn't film the scene as a rape scene" when that's obviously what it is is because D&D (showrunners) altered it in editing. Does anyone have a source for that?

I've read Martin's statement on the issue and it sounds like a whole lot of words that say nothing.
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Robz888

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #84 on: April 21, 2014, 07:11:51 pm »
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I didn't know that, but that would make sense. It is certainly a rape scene and very different from the book. Perhaps it was more in line with what happened in the book before the editing was made.

It's a weird change, and one I didn't really like. I haven't seen many defenders. It really takes Jaime down a peg as far as moral standing goes. I'm not sure why they would do that.
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Eevee

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #85 on: April 21, 2014, 07:31:46 pm »
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I really don't like the way they've changed Jaime and his relationship with Cersei from the book. I'm also curious about the relationship between Snow and Thorne, seems very different from the books, but not necessarily worse. Show-wildlings seem harder to root for with how they showed their "raiding". Ygritte's death will be less sad this way I think. I never liked her in the books either though, so this isn't ruining an emotional death for me. The Thenns are absolutely terrifying, which really feels unnecessary when you think of their story line in the book this far. Just seems sort of show-offy that they go to those lengths to establish how horrible they are considering no other wildling group gets as much attention, and as far as I can tell all the Thenns do is represent how the free folk are all different and some don't get along that well. I didn't like the way they've changed the relationship between Stannis and Davos (whom I love as a character in both the books and the show). Stannis isn't being very kingly.

The last scene was super dramatic and very well done! On par with the birth of the dragons scene as far as favorite Daenarys scenes in the show go. That storyline from the books definitely needed improving too!
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Eevee

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #86 on: April 21, 2014, 07:35:07 pm »
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Also, what's up with Littlefinger's accent? I like that he has a distinct speaking rhythm, but he pronounces some words really oddly, which makes the whole accent seem fake.
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Eevee

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2014, 07:36:44 pm »
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edit: this should be in spoilers, sorry!

I'm not digging the Sam-Gilly storyline at all. I fear we'll have to suffer Tyrion-Shae level of horribleness for the near future, ugh.

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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #88 on: April 22, 2014, 05:34:47 pm »
+1

I'm not really bothered by most of the changes in the show, except: Where the hell is Moonboy!?!?!

We need Moonboy on screen, because I NEED to hear Tyrion say "she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleback and probably Moon Boy for all I know." :( Single most looked-foward-to line in the books.  Well, that and hearing Charles Dance say "Wherever whores go."  I can't wait for that.
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Voltaire

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2014, 06:49:17 pm »
+1

Biggest concern with the changes to Tommen: WILL WE GET SER POUNCE? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.
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jonts26

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2014, 01:26:36 am »
+4

Biggest concern with the changes to Tommen: WILL WE GET SER POUNCE? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.

THE POUNCE THAT WAS PROMISED
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Robz888

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2014, 01:29:01 am »
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Biggest concern with the changes to Tommen: WILL WE GET SER POUNCE? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.

Agreed! They made him too old! Now fawning over kittens will just be weird*

*I am 26, and when my brother brought three kittens with him to visit me last weekend, I fawned.
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KingZog3

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2014, 12:48:00 pm »
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edit: this should be in spoilers, sorry!

I'm not digging the Sam-Gilly storyline at all. I fear we'll have to suffer Tyrion-Shae level of horribleness for the near future, ugh.

Sam's storyline is short in book 4. Gilly is present but this takes nowhere as much presence as Tyrion and Shae (In fact I don't even remember it really being super important). After the baby swap Gilly is essentailly just sad the whole time. Book 5 Sam doesn't appear at all except at the very beginning where it overlaps with book 4.
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Eevee

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2014, 01:15:07 pm »
0

edit: this should be in spoilers, sorry!

I'm not digging the Sam-Gilly storyline at all. I fear we'll have to suffer Tyrion-Shae level of horribleness for the near future, ugh.

Sam's storyline is short in book 4. Gilly is present but this takes nowhere as much presence as Tyrion and Shae (In fact I don't even remember it really being super important). After the baby swap Gilly is essentailly just sad the whole time. Book 5 Sam doesn't appear at all except at the very beginning where it overlaps with book 4.
Yes, but the showrunners seem strangely intent on shoving terrible romance down our throats. I don't understand what they are doing with Shae.
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KingZog3

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2014, 01:23:25 pm »
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edit: this should be in spoilers, sorry!

I'm not digging the Sam-Gilly storyline at all. I fear we'll have to suffer Tyrion-Shae level of horribleness for the near future, ugh.

Sam's storyline is short in book 4. Gilly is present but this takes nowhere as much presence as Tyrion and Shae (In fact I don't even remember it really being super important). After the baby swap Gilly is essentailly just sad the whole time. Book 5 Sam doesn't appear at all except at the very beginning where it overlaps with book 4.
Yes, but the showrunners seem strangely intent on shoving terrible romance down our throats. I don't understand what they are doing with Shae.

But to be fair that was a big deal in the books too. Much of book 2 was Tyrion trying to keep her a secret and visiting her. I don't think GRRM will let them make it too important. After all he is pretty involved in the making of the show.
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Eevee

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2014, 01:27:09 pm »
0

edit: this should be in spoilers, sorry!

I'm not digging the Sam-Gilly storyline at all. I fear we'll have to suffer Tyrion-Shae level of horribleness for the near future, ugh.

Sam's storyline is short in book 4. Gilly is present but this takes nowhere as much presence as Tyrion and Shae (In fact I don't even remember it really being super important). After the baby swap Gilly is essentailly just sad the whole time. Book 5 Sam doesn't appear at all except at the very beginning where it overlaps with book 4.
Yes, but the showrunners seem strangely intent on shoving terrible romance down our throats. I don't understand what they are doing with Shae.

But to be fair that was a big deal in the books too. Much of book 2 was Tyrion trying to keep her a secret and visiting her. I don't think GRRM will let them make it too important. After all he is pretty involved in the making of the show.
Oh I'm not referring to screen time. I'm referring to her turning down diamonds and generally being portrayed as a good girl and the victim. Shae's betrayal was a huge reason for Tyrion going down the dark path he did. Seems a lock he didn't really get on that ship, but they are still making her a completely different from the books as far as I can tell, and I'm worried how that will affect Tyrions arc.
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KingZog3

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2014, 01:31:30 pm »
0

edit: this should be in spoilers, sorry!

I'm not digging the Sam-Gilly storyline at all. I fear we'll have to suffer Tyrion-Shae level of horribleness for the near future, ugh.

Sam's storyline is short in book 4. Gilly is present but this takes nowhere as much presence as Tyrion and Shae (In fact I don't even remember it really being super important). After the baby swap Gilly is essentailly just sad the whole time. Book 5 Sam doesn't appear at all except at the very beginning where it overlaps with book 4.
Yes, but the showrunners seem strangely intent on shoving terrible romance down our throats. I don't understand what they are doing with Shae.

But to be fair that was a big deal in the books too. Much of book 2 was Tyrion trying to keep her a secret and visiting her. I don't think GRRM will let them make it too important. After all he is pretty involved in the making of the show.
Oh I'm not referring to screen time. I'm referring to her turning down diamonds and generally being portrayed as a good girl and the victim. Shae's betrayal was a huge reason for Tyrion going down the dark path he did. Seems a lock he didn't really get on that ship, but they are still making her a completely different from the books as far as I can tell, and I'm worried how that will affect Tyrions arc.

Hmmm, well the way I saw it was that he was being played by her. He stayed because he though she loved him, but in in fact she didn't, she just wanted money, which we learn when he finds her sleeping with his father. Tyrions arc won't change because he will still be blamed for Joff's murder and he'll still escape, be on the boat to the free cities, be captured as a slave etc...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 01:52:34 pm by KingZog3 »
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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2014, 01:39:53 pm »
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I'm assuming Tyrions arc will be the same.  Shae will be back and testify against him, and it will tear him up even more because he has more reason to believe she's sincere (turning down the diamonds, crying, etc.)).  They can't take out him killing Shae in Tywin's bed, because that's so crucial to his development.
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Witherweaver

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2014, 01:40:44 pm »
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King you should probably spoiler tag that.
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KingZog3

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire [spoilers version]
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2014, 01:53:16 pm »
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King you should probably spoiler tag that.

Yeah, I did. I forgot when I was writing it. Nobody saw that!!
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