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[Schneau]

I've recently put in the {{VP}} template, which can be used to print the VP symbol in-line with text. It has been put on all the victory card pages by others and myself. Do people like how it looks?

If so, I am also interested in getting coin symbols that can be used as a template so that we can put them in place of +$2, etc. I think they would look good replacing card costs, vanilla bonuses, etc, if others agree. I don't have the images yet, but have a discussion going here that will hopefully produce them; otherwise, I'll make some myself.

[DStu]

I've recently put in the {{VP}} template, which can be used to print the VP symbol in-line with text. It has been put on all the victory card pages by others and myself. Do people like how it looks?

I actually tried a replace "VP"->"{{VP}}" yesterday on Monument, but realized that
a) you don't want every mention of VP to be replace (Secret histories, also when talking about other Victory cards)
b) It was already done, so what I did was to replace {{VP}} by {{{{VP}}}}.

[DStu]

Also, the image is a bit too large, so that the distance between lines is enlarged. Not sure if a smaller still looks good, but if it would fit into the standard layout, that would probably be nice.

[Schneau]

Yeah, the VP one was few enough instances to do it by hand. The coin images might be easier to do by bot.

As for the height, this is part of the reason I made it a template. We can easily change the height (and what the image links to, among other things) by changing the template. I experimented with a bunch of heights, and thought that this one didn't increase distances between lines. For example, if you look at the Goons page and make the page narrow, you can compare lines with and without the VP image. On my computer, it looks like there isn't any increase in distance between lines, but it may be browser or system dependent, in which case we can shrink it by a couple of pixels.

[Drab Emordnilap]

For example, if you look at the Goons page and make the page narrow, you can compare lines with and without the VP image. On my computer, it looks like there isn't any increase in distance between lines, but it may be browser or system dependent, in which case we can shrink it by a couple of pixels.

(For me, at least) There is exactly one more pixel between a line with the VP icon and the next than between a line without the icon and the next. I tested this by checking the number of pixel lines my cursor is an arrow instead of an I-beam; there's 3 pixel lines instead of the normal 2.

[DStu]

Yeah, the VP one was few enough instances to do it by hand. The coin images might be easier to do by bot.

As for the height, this is part of the reason I made it a template. We can easily change the height (and what the image links to, among other things) by changing the template. I experimented with a bunch of heights, and thought that this one didn't increase distances between lines. For example, if you look at the Goons page and make the page narrow, you can compare lines with and without the VP image. On my computer, it looks like there isn't any increase in distance between lines, but it may be browser or system dependent, in which case we can shrink it by a couple of pixels.

Yeahlol, I take anything back.  Looked at Monument, and there all the {{VP}} appears exactly before or after paragraph endings.  Which increase the distance m).
edit: But if you mark the line, you anyway see that the images extends the border of the line for something like 1px to the top and 2px to the bottom.

@Coins.  If! we can really replace all the $x with the images, that is an easy job for the bot.

[Qvist]

Yeah, the VP one was few enough instances to do it by hand. The coin images might be easier to do by bot.

As for the height, this is part of the reason I made it a template. We can easily change the height (and what the image links to, among other things) by changing the template. I experimented with a bunch of heights, and thought that this one didn't increase distances between lines. For example, if you look at the Goons page and make the page narrow, you can compare lines with and without the VP image. On my computer, it looks like there isn't any increase in distance between lines, but it may be browser or system dependent, in which case we can shrink it by a couple of pixels.

Yeahlol, I take anything back.  Looked at Monument, and there all the {{VP}} appears exactly before or after paragraph endings.  Which increase the distance m).
edit: But if you mark the line, you anyway see that the images extends the border of the line for something like 1px to the top and 2px to the bottom.

@Coins.  If! we can really replace all the $x with the images, that is an easy job for the bot.

I don't think we can replace all occurences of $x because having $x to spend is different to the card cost.
E.g. the Scrying Pool article: "With a +Buy, this isn’t a problem because it is easy to get to $13 or $16."
This shouldn't be replaced!

[DStu]

In that case you can of course still use the bot to find all the places you might want to change, and decide manually.  But I'm not sure if I want to do this.

I don't see any way to decide just with regular expressions on if to replace or not, and even if I would use someting Turing-complete, I wouldn't know on how to decide if this $2 is transformed to coins or not.

:e But actually, I don't really see why this "$13 or $16" shouldn't be in coin images (except that maybe we don't have good images with double-digit numbers). The currency in Dominion has always been "{{Coin}}", and "$" only occurs because "{{Coin}}" is not in UTF-8 (I think), and at least not in ASCII.  But I don't think you would find a single "$" in the rulebooks, and if there would be some tactical advices in the rulebook like "... it is easy to get to $13 to $16", I'm sure it would use "{{Coin13}" and "{{Coin16}}"" instead of "$13" and "$16".

[Qvist]

Ok, your argumentation seems reasonable.
So, let's just replace all these cases with the bot.

Regarding the template: Doesn't it make more sense to create one {{Coin}} template which take the first argument and displays the respecting image, e.g. {{Coin|2}}.
We could then easily handle cases where there is no coin image (like $12). We could then even use CSS to display an empty coin as a background of a div and the argument in front of it. It wouldn't have the official font, but it shouldn't look that shabby. This would us even allow to make something like {{Coin|?}} or {{Coin|x}}

[Schneau]

I agree with DStu here. There is no $ in official Dominion language - they're all numbers on coin signs. The only thing I can imagine that would cause an issue would be large numbers where we don't have an image for them (like $16). So, I'm in favor of changing all occurrences that we can. But, I understand if others are against it.

[Schneau]

Ok, your argumentation seems reasonable.
So, let's just replace all these cases with the bot.

Regarding the template: Doesn't it make more sense to create one {{Coin}} template which take the first argument and displays the respecting image, e.g. {{Coin|2}}.
We could then easily handle cases where there is no coin image (like $12). We could then even use CSS to display an empty coin as a background of a div and the argument in front of it. It wouldn't have the official font, but it shouldn't look that shabby. This would us even allow to make something like {{Coin|?}} or {{Coin|x}}

I agree about that method of creating the template with {{Coin|argument}}. You could leave the argument blank to get an empty coin symbol (like for Salvager).

But, I think it would be nicest to have images for each number with the official font (or at least a look-alike). I'm getting closer to being able to make such images, or someone else could if they can. We should have as many options as possible - maybe something like numbers 0 through 20, 0*, 8*, blank, ?, and x (do any official cards use x?).

[Schneau]

I reduced the height of the VP template from 16 to 14 pixels. It definitely did not change the line spacing on my machine (Firefox, OSX) - I looked at the Goons page before and after, and the lines did not move vertically at all. But, maybe this will help on others' machines.

[Drab Emordnilap]

They're both 2 pixel lines of cursor for me now.

[DStu]

I don't know when I can start the bot, but you can do the templates anyway.
So when we do the coins, this raises the question if not also all mentioning of "VP" should be {{VP}} really.  I thought that is not the case, and you can't really make the point with "$" for "VP" (because {{VP}} is calles "Victory Points" in the rules.   Anyway, it would be possible to replace every mention of VP (and also Victory Points) by {{VP}}, but I'm not so sure if that is what we want.

[Schneau]

I don't know when I can start the bot, but you can do the templates anyway.
So when we do the coins, this raises the question if not also all mentioning of "VP" should be {{VP}} really.  I thought that is not the case, and you can't really make the point with "$" for "VP" (because {{VP}} is calles "Victory Points" in the rules.   Anyway, it would be possible to replace every mention of VP (and also Victory Points) by {{VP}}, but I'm not so sure if that is what we want.

I don't think the VP to {{VP}} is necessarily a good idea across the board. Things like alt-VP shouldn't be alt-{{VP}}, and the rules do talk about "victory points". So, I feel we should use a more subtle, human-driven approach there instead of letting the bots do it.

[Qvist]

I uploaded a crappy coin image and created the coin template. For 1 digit it works fine. We could use it at least until the other images are done and DStu could try replace all occurences of $ with this template.

[Schneau]

I uploaded a crappy coin image and created the coin template. For 1 digit it works fine. We could use it at least until the other images are done and DStu could try replace all occurences of $ with this template.

Thanks! This is good until we can get official font images. And luckily, it's easy to swap them in later since it's a template!

[Drab Emordnilap]

Something with this template is doing something to bulleted lists.

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Border_Village#Official_FAQ

[Qvist]

Something with this template is doing something to bulleted lists.

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Border_Village#Official_FAQ

Fixed.

[DStu]

Bot is botting.
[:e For first, just single-digit costs.]
[:e2 done]

We should have a template for Potion, too...

[eHalcyon]

Linked is a simple PSD with the coin background and a text layer for the coin value.  I just have the text as bold Times New Roman, which is basically what they do for inline values.

If someone tells me the size needed, I can make smaller PNGs or something.

[Schneau]

Linked is a simple PSD with the coin background and a text layer for the coin value.  I just have the text as bold Times New Roman, which is basically what they do for inline values.

If someone tells me the size needed, I can make smaller PNGs or something.

Bigger is probably better - we can shrink images better than grow them. I'm working on making PNGs, but thanks anyway!

[AJD]

The coin image doesn't show up right in section headings:

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Terminal_silver

[DStu]

Tried something (see undo-log), but doesn't really work out. Don't understand this.

In the usual text, for the image, it creates a span of height 16px, no matter if you use a 15px, 16px or 19px image. But text with 10px gets a 19px span inside the span of image.
But in the headings, it creates a span of 19px for the image (no matter what), and because of that it's a mess to place everything.

Especially as you can't tell the spans how large they should be...

[Qvist]

I tried a fix. Seems to work. Let me know if you find another case where it seems wrong.

[ftl]

OK, so things still seem a little wrong with the coin images. Usually they look great, but sometimes they cause line breaks? Like, if you look at Cutpurse at http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Cutpurse ,

in the cardbox, when it says "+$2", the "2 coin" image is on its own line, after the +. And in the secret history, it says

"Cards cost
(1) less this turn"

with the (1) starting a new line.

[Schneau]

OK, so things still seem a little wrong with the coin images. Usually they look great, but sometimes they cause line breaks? Like, if you look at Cutpurse at http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Cutpurse ,

in the cardbox, when it says "+$2", the "2 coin" image is on its own line, after the +. And in the secret history, it says

"Cards cost
(1) less this turn"

with the (1) starting a new line.

I'm working on uploading the new images. I made a big edit to the template to use the images, which may have broken it in some way which is creating the line breaks (which I also noticed, but I'm not sure why they're there). If someone with more wiki knowledge wants to fix the template, be my guest.

[Qvist]

There was only one extra line break in the template. It's fixed.

[Schneau]

I have uploaded images for coin values between 0 and 11, 0*, 8*, and ?. I can easily upload higher values if we want them.

[Qvist]

Much better now. Can you make the character spacing smaller for $11, $0* and $8* ?
And I think the image is hanging a little bit at the bottom, this looks especially awkward with the + sign in front. I'll go and look what I can change.

[Schneau]

Much better now. Can you make the character spacing smaller for $11, $0* and $8* ?
And I think the image is hanging a little bit at the bottom, this looks especially awkward with the + sign in front. I'll go and look what I can change.

I can probably make the spacing smaller. I'm very unfamiliar with Photoshop (Gimp user usually), but I'm sure there's some option somewhere. I'll get around to this sooner or later.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I can probably make the spacing smaller. I'm very unfamiliar with Photoshop (Gimp user usually), but I'm sure there's some option somewhere. I'll get around to this sooner or later.

Dithering. Kerning?

[eHalcyon]

I can probably make the spacing smaller. I'm very unfamiliar with Photoshop (Gimp user usually), but I'm sure there's some option somewhere. I'll get around to this sooner or later.

Dithering. Kerning?

There is a text palette with options, including making the spacing smaller between characters.  But if you can't find it, you could always rasterize the text layer and just nudge things closer together.

[Schneau]

I uploaded new files for 10, 11, 0* and 8* with decreased tracking (space between letters).

[DStu]

I uploaded new files for 10, 11, 0* and 8* with decreased tracking (space between letters).

So what I see, at the moment we just need 15,20,?,x, and empty from what is left in the wiki.

[DStu]

For me, the coins in the text still look like 1px to low. When you change text-align in the css from bottom to text-bottom, they look perfectly fine, but then they are 1px to low in headings.
http://www.getdigital.de/products/CSS_sucks_v2

[Qvist]

Yeah, I know. That was only a quick fix to make it work at least a little bit better. I should convert in an inline-block element with fixed size and then it should be better, but it's now still not that bad. I'll probably change that anyway soon. But there are higher priority tasks now.

[Schneau]

I uploaded new files for 10, 11, 0* and 8* with decreased tracking (space between letters).

So what I see, at the moment we just need 15,20,?,x, and empty from what is left in the wiki.

We have ? - but since Coin?.png isn't a valid filename on the wiki (tried it, things broke), it is at CoinQ.png. So, You'll have to use {{coin|Q}} for that one.

I will later today upload 12-20 and x.

[DStu]

Oh, didn't noticed. Just looked for all remaining '$'s in the wiki, that where the ones. Will change tonight.

We maybe also want a {{Coin|-1}} for the FAQ of Develop, it's -{{Coin|1}} at the moment, which seems wrong.

[Schneau]

Oh, didn't noticed. Just looked for all remaining '$'s in the wiki, that where the ones. Will change tonight.

We maybe also want a {{Coin|-1}} for the FAQ of Develop, it's -{{Coin|1}} at the moment, which seems wrong.

Both the official FAQ for Develop and the actual card of Poor House say "- (1)" with the minus sign, so that's probably the most legit way to go.

[Schneau]

We now have 12-20 and X.

[DStu]

We now have 12-20 and X.

Njamnjamnjamnjamnjam

Edit: Just realize that we also need {{coin|0.917}}

[Qvist]

Yeah, and I'm missing {{coin|ϕ}} and can you make it that {{coin|-1}} outputs a coins symbol with e^iπ ?

[DStu]

Yeah, and I'm missing {{coin|ϕ}} and can you make it that {{coin|-1}} outputs a coins symbol with e^iπ ?

So, do we now want every mention of "coin" and "coins" in the wiki to be replaced by the blank image?

On the BigMoney-page, there are these $0.917 which the bot transformed to {{coin|0}}.017, which I transformed to "0.917 coins". But that could maybe also look nice as "0.917{{Coin|}}" (that works, I tried).

But not sure if I just want to have a global replacement.

[Schneau]

I like 0.917 {{coin|}}. I'm all for using the coin image as much as possible, and hardly (if ever) using words to replace it.