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Author Topic: Some sort of control needed?  (Read 1993 times)

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Ozle

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Some sort of control needed?
« on: November 02, 2012, 01:10:29 pm »

So the currently running mafia games, and soon to start Mafia games look like this:

Quote
Running Games
ZM3 - Day 2  -
Mafia XI: - Day 4
Mafia XIII: - Day 1
Bastard Mafia VI - Day 2
RMM3: - Day 4
Mafia XIV - Day 3

Sign Ups
Mafia XV - Fires Monday 5th
RMM5 (Shakespeare Mafia) - Sign Up
Mafia XVI  - Sign Up  (launches when XV is at day 2)
Domafia I: - Sign Up

<Plus lots more in queue>


Other Games
Hanabi 1
Resistance IV
Diplomacy 2 (Stalled?)
Forum Megaminion (Stalled?)
Cosmic Encounter IV
Cosmic Encounter III


I read most of the games and the one thing that has struck me over the last month is that participation is waaaay down, and the number of calling out lurkers is waaaay up. In quite a few of the past or current games its being held up by a few people only causing conversation for others.

There are also pretty much DEAD spectator threads. (what are the dead player threads like?)

This is down mostly (but not all of course, it could be Goko....*snigger*) to the sheer number of games, plus, the number of games in sign ups.

As Galz pointed out, the most exciting part of Mafia is recieving your role. Once you have that and the initial game excitement has worn off, then all of a sudden all those fancy sign ups look a LOT more interesting. Unless you got some sort of super role, a game where you could potentially get a super role is much more appealing than your VT in the current game!

I think we need to put some sort of mod control on this board so as to limit the number of games open at once.

My personal preference is that we have the number of players on this board to have:

One Large Game: 13+ players
One Normal Size: 12 and under
One Quick Game: 9-12 with much shorter deadlines
One Role Madness or Bastard Game (as they are pretty interchangeable these days)
One Newbie game: 9 players (only 3 people who have player more than 2 games)

Have a separate Mod queue (possibly run by a forum moderator) for each one, signs ups are launched when game reaches Day 3 for normal size or short. Or Day 4/5 for Late/RM/BM, depending on number of players.

What do people think?

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Ozle

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 01:14:34 pm »

I dunno though, maybe its just me.

But as a Mod id be pretty fed up if I put all that work into a game and hardly anybody paid attention to it!
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Galzria

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2012, 01:20:39 pm »

I actually think it's detrimental to have rolling games - that is, it's better to run in blocks than always try and have active games running. You're right that it's killed off spectating, because as soon as people die, they're already playing in other games so don't get involved in the following of ones they're out of - which is sad because there's much to be learned from watching games continue to play out.

More than that however, when games end in blocks, it means a certain number of people will have been dead for some period of time, and they'll be chomping at the bit to get back in and going, creating a level of enthusiasm for the launch of new games - enthusiasm that's important for carrying a game through it's random stages and into the meat of it.

With the constant stream of games, you get people jumping for the excitement of PM's and opening flavour, but then they stall out and really drag. There a LOT of good, flavorful games waiting in the queue to get launched and played, but it's all incredibly overwhelming.

Games I'm in, or following (because I don't stop once I'm out):

M-XI, M-XIII, M-XIV, ZM3, RMM3, BM-VI

I've also got 8 QT's that I'm actively following or participating in across all those games.

And I love it, I really do - but part of the excitement of playing comes from the anticipation and build-up to new launches.

Well, that's how I feel anyway. And this is the wrong thread for this, but it's where the conversation is at. I understand the jam that launching 3 new games at once causes... But it seems to me the reason that happens is because there's genuine excitement to get in and get playing again - and that only comes from people having a little bit of down time every now and then where they're watching and waiting instead of constantly playing.

TLDR:
I agree.
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Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Captain_Frisk

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2012, 01:24:14 pm »

I'd draw the line at large / normal to be 14 instead of 13.

13 is a good size game.  It's been the ones over that that have been overwhelming, at least for me.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 01:25:35 pm »

Oh - and I don't care about spectator killing.  I'd rather play than spec.  I'm only in 2 spec threads, one of them seems pretty healthy, and the other... I'm just going to say that MXI was an interesting experiment.
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Voltgloss

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 01:25:54 pm »

I am all for putting a bit more control over the process. 

A few comments:

1.  I would classify "Large Game" as 14+ players and "Normal Size" as 13 and under.  I think 13 is the "sweet spot" for a "normal"-type game that doesn't risk feeling overwhelmingly large.   [PPE: ninja'd by CF]

2.  I am not sure Role Madness and Bastard are as interchangeable as you suggest.  Your Mystery Mafia game was both, but not all Bastard games are Role Madness, and not all Role Madness games are Bastard. 

I suggest the following tweak to your proposed limits, for further discussion by the group:

- one Large game (14+ players), which may or may not be Role Madness;
- one Normal-sized game (13- players), which may or may not be Role Madness;
- one Blitz game;
- one Newbie game; and
- one Bastard game.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2012, 01:27:30 pm »

Oh - and all games should come with a trollmod.
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Jorbles

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 01:31:10 pm »

I don't totally disagree, though I would set it up differently. I think it's really important that we have a newbie game available to encourage new players to start playing at all times. I think we should always have one open, but only start them as they are filled, using one of a few standardized "newbie" setups from the mafia scum wiki or minor variations on them.

Aside from that I think your sizing is off. I would classify Large games as 15+ not 13+, and Normal games as 12-14 players. [ed: ninja'd] Quick/small games as 11 and under, but in general the smaller the quicker.

It would be really helpful to have this standardized as we have a glut of potential moderators right now. I'm happy with the level of participation in the games I am in both as a player (dead now) and moderating, though. So maybe the problem isn't quite as bad as we think it is.

We might want to allow for more weird/RM/BM games than one though, as the majority of potential mods seem to want to do games in that vein at the moment.
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Ozle

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 01:40:03 pm »



We might want to allow for more weird/RM/BM games than one though, as the majority of potential mods seem to want to do games in that vein at the moment.

Yeah, I think the larger games will always be weird/RM style anyways. They have been so far anyway.

The 14+ seems a good number for a large game and then 9-13 for normal

And a standard newbie game is a good idea, but from a few varieties.
Plus maybe you have to have played in a couple of games before you can Mod maybe? (Think everybody qualifies anyway)
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yuma

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 05:19:25 pm »

1. I still maintain that it is good to have multiple games available for sign up at a time. Choices are better. I don't want to be pigeonholed into a game just because it is the only game that is about to start and I need a mafia fix. I want to be able to which games I play in and which games I don't, but still be able to constantly be in a game. I understand that this might be frustrating to mods. But, thus far we have never had a game not get off the ground... I think yours would have but you pulled it. And really, if no one signs up for a game, maybe it should be looked at to see if it is any good and to see if it should be changed so that it is more attractive to play in.

2. I don't think participation has been that bad. What I do think is that the expectation for people to constantly be available for mafia has risen. We don't need to have games with such high post counts. It is ok, if they are that high, but frankly it isn't mandatory.

3. People have always lurked and will continue to lurk. In every game I have played there have been people with low participation rates. That isn't due to game play, that is due to personality and real life obligations.

4. I am ok with more control over the process. But I don't like the one up at a time emphasis.

5. I would love to encourage more newbie friendly and but not necessarily less extravagant games.

6. I can't help but notice that people started to complain about this at about the same time as Robz's game started... Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that game and think that there is a place for it. But it has had an effect on the rest of the game play, and i imagine it will lessen once that game comes to a conclusion.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 05:28:05 pm by yuma »
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cayvie

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 05:22:42 pm »

i suspect it will be a more effective measure to limit the number of games an individual player is allowed to participate in
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Voltgloss

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 05:23:20 pm »

i suspect it will be a more effective measure to limit the number of games an individual player is allowed to participate in

Somewhere, Robz just started trembling uncontrollably and doesn't know why.
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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 05:43:43 pm »

Like, what if we classified games like that, but said people were only allowed to sign up for, say

1 Large
2 Small
1 Bastard

maximum, or something.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 11:37:50 pm »

i suspect it will be a more effective measure to limit the number of games an individual player is allowed to participate in
I think there is a lot of truth in this.  Sorry Robz. Maybe dying is a sign.
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Young Nick

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2012, 12:48:22 am »

I think that it also might be because f.DS as a whole is on the decline. There was relatively consistent growth from February until August. However, September and October have seen much less activity. It is true, this is partially due to Goko. However, sad as it is, it is also partially true to people losing interest. And when there is much less actual Dominion content being produced, that leads to fewer new members, rarer viewing/posting by current members, and fewer participants in forum games.

Edit: Added underlined section so the sentence would make sense.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 04:40:45 pm by Young Nick »
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2012, 10:11:15 am »

I think that it also might be because f.DS as a whole is on the decline. There was relatively from February until August. However, September and October have seen much less activity. It is true, this is partially due to Goko. However, sad as it is, it is also partially true to people losing interest. And when there is much less actual Dominion content being produced, that leads to fewer new members, rarer viewing/posting by current members, and fewer participants in forum games.
I can't argue with that logic. I am reading less and less Dominion content (not having DA available has a lot to do with that, but so does losing interest in the game itself), and using the forum more as a social outlet than anything else.
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Archetype

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2012, 10:49:47 am »

I think that it also might be because f.DS as a whole is on the decline. There was relatively from February until August. However, September and October have seen much less activity. It is true, this is partially due to Goko. However, sad as it is, it is also partially true to people losing interest. And when there is much less actual Dominion content being produced, that leads to fewer new members, rarer viewing/posting by current members, and fewer participants in forum games.
I can't argue with that logic. I am reading less and less Dominion content (not having DA available has a lot to do with that, but so does losing interest in the game itself), and using the forum more as a social outlet than anything else.
Same. I still play iso, but I mainly come for Mafia now. :P

I do pop into Variants occasionally though.
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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2012, 04:38:38 pm »

I don't think we really need control I think Young_Nick drives a good point and additionally that MXI is a time eater.
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yuma

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2012, 05:51:40 pm »

i suspect it will be a more effective measure to limit the number of games an individual player is allowed to participate in

Yeah, I don't think this is addressing the situation accurately. For some people they can handle 7 games. Others struggle to actively participate once they get up to 2, or even when they are only in 1. It all depends on their own personal real life responsibilities.
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Axxle

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Re: Some sort of control needed?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2012, 08:29:12 pm »

I think as long as mods take a stronger stance on replacing out players with low activity and players know their limits things will even itself out.
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