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Author Topic: Goko, quite simply, sucks  (Read 7827 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2012, 03:00:10 pm »
0

So - goko has a bunch of things that Iso doesn't

1. Official Art
2. Music
3. Animations
4. Artificial Intelligence
5. Single Player (its still there - even for guests - you can choose 2,3, or 4 players - but not 5 or 6)
6. Cool 3d avatars
7. A casual leaderboard for people who want to constrain their cards
8. Rewards for playing with your google account.  Iso gives you no such bonus.
9. Adventure mode
10. Far fewer people in lobby - so you don't have to worry about chat spam.

Despite understanding the tongue-in-cheek nature of this, I still want to get an explanation for #5. Iso does have single player; and I'm not sure what you mean by "you can choose 2, 3 or 4 players - but not 5 or 6"... both Goko and Iso allow 1-6 players; I think Iso also allows 7 and 8...

He means that if you have the table set to 5 or 6 on goko single player doesn't work.

Now that's bizarre... what would be the reason for such a limitation?
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2012, 03:01:25 pm »
0

So - goko has a bunch of things that Iso doesn't

1. Official Art
2. Music
3. Animations
4. Artificial Intelligence
5. Single Player (its still there - even for guests - you can choose 2,3, or 4 players - but not 5 or 6)
6. Cool 3d avatars
7. A casual leaderboard for people who want to constrain their cards
8. Rewards for playing with your google account.  Iso gives you no such bonus.
9. Adventure mode
10. Far fewer people in lobby - so you don't have to worry about chat spam.

Despite understanding the tongue-in-cheek nature of this, I still want to get an explanation for #5. Iso does have single player; and I'm not sure what you mean by "you can choose 2, 3 or 4 players - but not 5 or 6"... both Goko and Iso allow 1-6 players; I think Iso also allows 7 and 8...

He means that if you have the table set to 5 or 6 on goko single player doesn't work.

Actually i was referring ot the single player button on the home screen.  Press it and you get a quick math against 1,2 or 3 opponents.

I don't know about solo play as guest, but i've definitely done it as logged in user... accidentally hitting play before putting a bot in.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2012, 03:04:52 pm »
0

So - goko has a bunch of things that Iso doesn't

1. Official Art
2. Music
3. Animations
4. Artificial Intelligence
5. Single Player (its still there - even for guests - you can choose 2,3, or 4 players - but not 5 or 6)
6. Cool 3d avatars
7. A casual leaderboard for people who want to constrain their cards
8. Rewards for playing with your google account.  Iso gives you no such bonus.
9. Adventure mode
10. Far fewer people in lobby - so you don't have to worry about chat spam.

Despite understanding the tongue-in-cheek nature of this, I still want to get an explanation for #5. Iso does have single player; and I'm not sure what you mean by "you can choose 2, 3 or 4 players - but not 5 or 6"... both Goko and Iso allow 1-6 players; I think Iso also allows 7 and 8...

He means that if you have the table set to 5 or 6 on goko single player doesn't work.

Actually i was referring ot the single player button on the home screen.  Press it and you get a quick math against 1,2 or 3 opponents.

I don't know about solo play as guest, but i've definitely done it as logged in user... accidentally hitting play before putting a bot in.

Ohh. well solo play I've tried today and it doesn't work anymore.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2012, 03:03:24 am »
0

I don't agree with most of the Goko bashing going on, because well, it's not perfect, but it's fine I think. But this one is really something that could be improved:

* Sinfully ugly. Animations everywhere. Flashing. Stupid design decisions for placement of things. Even if you tell it "very fast" animations. And if you speed up the animations so you can play your turn better, you have an even harder time following what your opponents are doing.
* All but impossible to keep track of what your opponents are doing unless you really want to click the read log button every turn.
At normal speed I think there's plenty of time to see everything your opponents do. Fast is too fast to see what's going on. On very fast however the status line tells you what cards they gained, which is often all you care about, and when you specifically want to know something else there's the log.

The point is that your opponent's actions are really fast, while some of your actions are painfully slow (like trashing stuff with Chapel for example - there is quite a long pause between each trashed card that seems not really necessary to me).

And of course there is the in-game log and the status line, but the status line information is really limited (and I often don't recongnize it, since it's sort of integrated into the overall background design), and as for the ingame log, it would really help if you could open it in a seperate window.
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Brane

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2012, 05:07:36 am »
0

Yep I would agree that the interface needs some work when it comes to playing your own cards - I've realized I was deciding against buying some cards not because of my strategy, but because they slowed down gameplay to uncomfortable levels.

Just yesterday I played a match where my opponent decided to buy as many Villages/Spies/Militias as possible, and I got meself a few Moats... and man did that "play reaction"/"done with reactions" dance got old very quickly. In the end I resigned, I just couldn't bare the thought of yet another turn chokeful of Spies. He beat me through attrition, what can I say. Nice work. Gee gee.  :)
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2012, 07:07:38 am »
+1

As a long-time Isotropic player (and not one who wins lots of games, has a high rating, etc)... Goko sucks. I can say with certainty not only will I not be paying for it, I won't even be using its free features.

* Sinfully ugly. Animations everywhere. Flashing. Stupid design decisions for placement of things. Even if you tell it "very fast" animations. And if you speed up the animations so you can play your turn better, you have an even harder time following what your opponents are doing.
* All but impossible to keep track of what your opponents are doing unless you really want to click the read log button every turn.
* Sounds are terrible. Too many of them (really, a "shuffle deck" sound). And the few useful ones ("It's your turn!") are annoying. Background music? (Yes, I know there are options for it -- but sound is currently binary all on or off.)
* The UI itself is atrocious. I really have to click "done" before it lets me play treasures? Why are there no hover context menus to show cards instead of me having to click on it? (I know clicking's there for so-called 'mobile' compatibility -- but no reason to not include mouseovers).
* Load times are unbearably long.
* Everything's slow too. When I click to "play treasures" for example, it takes multiple seconds to process.
* No one-player "try things out" option? (Ie, single-seat tables).
* Multiplayer "play now" just joins you to the first table, rather than you having a preference of how big a table you want.
* Multiplayer really pushes 6 seat games. Dominion is terrible with that many players; it should default to the real value: 4.
* Multiplayer lobby is pretty damned fat and ugly. No sorting, filtering...
* This might be because I'm a guest -- is there no option to have the cards NOT show up until the game starts? Blind games are necessary.
* Apparently no restricting of generated kingdoms (why the hell did Goko rename them to "decks" instead of kingdoms?) by sets.
* Or any randomizing by any OTHER criteria ("must include at least 1 reaction" etc).

It's really an embarrassment to Don X's name that such an elegant game gets such a shoddy official digital release.

Constructive criticism? I can't really say that it does anything well...

I for one agree with pretty much all of these points. Some will say that the criticisms of Goko are unfair and overly negative. I think on the whole they are not negative enough. They took Dominion and tried to turn it into Farmville (and they did a completely incompetent job of it). It was broken at launch, it was broken at second launch, and months later it is still broken.

"It's really an embarrassment.... that such an elegant game gets such a shoddy official digital release." +1
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cactus

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2012, 07:08:41 am »
0

So - goko has a bunch of things that Iso doesn't

1. Official Art
2. Music
3. Animations
4. Artificial Intelligence
5. Single Player (its still there - even for guests - you can choose 2,3, or 4 players - but not 5 or 6)
6. Cool 3d avatars
7. A casual leaderboard for people who want to constrain their cards
8. Rewards for playing with your google account.  Iso gives you no such bonus.
9. Adventure mode
10. Far fewer people in lobby - so you don't have to worry about chat spam.

All of this I agree with also.... especially loving the faux irish music.... and the avatars that all look exactly the same.... and the compulsory googlism.... just all of it really, I love it all.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 07:20:02 am by cactus »
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Ozle

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2012, 07:14:01 am »
0

So - goko has a bunch of things that Iso doesn't

1. The same art as the cards
2. Repetitive Music
3. Too fast or Too slow animations
4. An Artifical intelligence that my dog has just beaten
5. A mode for people who cannot beat real players
6. Crap 3d avatars
7. A casual leaderboard for people who want to game the system
8. Requirement for special account in order to get everything
9. Pay-to-win mode
10. An mainly empty lobby

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2012, 07:40:55 am »
+1

The point is that your opponent's actions are really fast, while some of your actions are painfully slow (like trashing stuff with Chapel for example - there is quite a long pause between each trashed card that seems not really necessary to me).
The problem with Chapel is that it communicates after each click. Ideally it would buffer the set of choices and communicate them once (same for Cellar etc.). If that were fixed then the only speed issue it would have is whatever speed issue you have everywhere - if it's slow to communicate then you are seeing that constantly, it's just emphasized by Chapel.

And of course there is the in-game log and the status line, but the status line information is really limited (and I often don't recongnize it, since it's sort of integrated into the overall background design), and as for the ingame log, it would really help if you could open it in a seperate window.
Obv. it would be nice to have the log onscreen if your screen is resolute enough. I would go for that rather than a separate window; if my screen won't hold the window then I'm not sure it's helping.
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Kirian

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2012, 08:45:25 am »
+1

I don't know about solo play as guest, but i've definitely done it as logged in user... accidentally hitting play before putting a bot in.

Ohh. well solo play I've tried today and it doesn't work anymore.

Confirmed.  Can't play a 1-player game any more.  They're really breaking new ground here.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2012, 10:53:14 am »
+7

I don't know about solo play as guest, but i've definitely done it as logged in user... accidentally hitting play before putting a bot in.

Ohh. well solo play I've tried today and it doesn't work anymore.

Confirmed.  Can't play a 1-player game any more.  They're really breaking new ground here.

Well the official rules of Dominion don't allow for 1-player games, so I'm sure that they're just doing everything they can to keep true to the spirit of Dominion itself; trying to avoid adding any unnecessary things that aren't part of the actual-

Ok, I simply can't say that with a straight face.
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Grujah

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2012, 11:24:32 am »
0

The point is that your opponent's actions are really fast, while some of your actions are painfully slow (like trashing stuff with Chapel for example - there is quite a long pause between each trashed card that seems not really necessary to me).
The problem with Chapel is that it communicates after each click. Ideally it would buffer the set of choices and communicate them once (same for Cellar etc.). If that were fixed then the only speed issue it would have is whatever speed issue you have everywhere - if it's slow to communicate then you are seeing that constantly, it's just emphasized by Chapel.

And of course there is the in-game log and the status line, but the status line information is really limited (and I often don't recongnize it, since it's sort of integrated into the overall background design), and as for the ingame log, it would really help if you could open it in a seperate window.
Obv. it would be nice to have the log onscreen if your screen is resolute enough. I would go for that rather than a separate window; if my screen won't hold the window then I'm not sure it's helping.

There are stuff that are generally slow, like animation when cards goes from "in-your-face" middle of screen to discard - i feel it is slow, and doesn't respond while it lasts. This might be worst in multiplayer game where you play a mountebank.

Log still doesn't work as it should - no scrollbutton support and if you drag it and move the pointer to the right it often loses focus.
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Brane

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2012, 01:17:58 pm »
0

I don't know about solo play as guest, but i've definitely done it as logged in user... accidentally hitting play before putting a bot in.

Ohh. well solo play I've tried today and it doesn't work anymore.

Confirmed.  Can't play a 1-player game any more.  They're really breaking new ground here.

Well the official rules of Dominion don't allow for 1-player games, so I'm sure that they're just doing everything they can to keep true to the spirit of Dominion itself; trying to avoid adding any unnecessary things that aren't part of the actual-

Ok, I simply can't say that with a straight face.

Well played.  :)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2012, 01:33:08 pm »
0

The point is that your opponent's actions are really fast, while some of your actions are painfully slow (like trashing stuff with Chapel for example - there is quite a long pause between each trashed card that seems not really necessary to me).
The problem with Chapel is that it communicates after each click. Ideally it would buffer the set of choices and communicate them once (same for Cellar etc.). If that were fixed then the only speed issue it would have is whatever speed issue you have everywhere - if it's slow to communicate then you are seeing that constantly, it's just emphasized by Chapel.

And of course there is the in-game log and the status line, but the status line information is really limited (and I often don't recongnize it, since it's sort of integrated into the overall background design), and as for the ingame log, it would really help if you could open it in a seperate window.
Obv. it would be nice to have the log onscreen if your screen is resolute enough. I would go for that rather than a separate window; if my screen won't hold the window then I'm not sure it's helping.

There are stuff that are generally slow, like animation when cards goes from "in-your-face" middle of screen to discard - i feel it is slow, and doesn't respond while it lasts. This might be worst in multiplayer game where you play a mountebank.

Log still doesn't work as it should - no scrollbutton support and if you drag it and move the pointer to the right it often loses focus.

Does the log show the entire game? Or just the last turn or couple turns? If it shows the entire game, that's certainly game-changing and allows for cheating. Iso seems to show the entire game in the log from time to time; some sort of random bug.
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Insomniac

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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2012, 01:36:57 pm »
0

It shows the entire game last time I checked
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2012, 08:52:04 pm »
+1

I only have one real problem with Goko Dominion. It is SLOW. And, I constantly need to clear my cache. Like after every game, I clear my cache, and I notice that if it is a long game, towards the end, my computer gets really slow. I have 1 GB of Ram. Maybe, I need more RAM, but really, I shouldn't have to get more RAM just to play an online card game. Also, I am using Chrome Browser. If there is a browser that is better for Goko Dominion, please let me know.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2012, 08:52:23 pm »
0

It shows the entire game last time I checked

Yes, it does.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2012, 08:53:19 pm »
0

Nope, Chrome is pretty much the best at the moment, it's worse on Firefox.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2012, 08:14:44 am »
0

How many Goko vs. Isotropic threads do we have now?
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2012, 09:03:47 am »
+1

How many Goko vs. Isotropic threads do we have now?
I haven't counted, but the over/under in Vegas is 163.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2012, 04:38:52 pm »
+3

Nope, Chrome is pretty much the best at the moment, it's worse on Firefox.

Firefox dev here.  Yep, it's worse in Firefox performance wise, those these days it seems to mostly 'work'.  Goko Dominion seems to be being developed basically as a WebKit-only (happens to work sorta ok in Chrome), or maybe even iPad-only.  Notice the fixed resolution?  1024x768, which is the iPad resolution (scaled up for newer Retina iPads).  That seems to be -the- primary target user, and this is visible from the UI that seems intended to be played for touch.

Those are my #1 and #2 frustrations with Goko right now -- performance is overall terrible, and a fixed iPad screen resolution is annoying to frustrating on anything but an iPad.  I'm sure it's fantastic to play Dominion online on an iPad.  But making my gameplay suffer on my laptop or on any of the Android tablets that I have (none have the 4:3 aspect ratio of the iPad, and the game doesn't do a few simple things to let itself scale usefully) is obnoxious.  If they wanted to release an iPad Dominion, they should have done just that.

FWIW, I don't necessarily agree with most of the original post; most of it boils down to "goko isn't isotropic", which is totally true, and it's also absolutely fine.  The Goko implementation is pretty (too pretty in some cases), but lacks some "advanced" functions -- such as better constraints for randomizing kingdoms.  But I'm sure (hope) that those will come.  (On a side note, without having any of the market background, I think leaving isotropic up would have negligible effect on goko's bottom line -- isotropic is for diehard dominion players, whereas goko's version has significant mass-market appeal.  The number of people who would 'prefer' the isotropic UI and implementation is likely to be tiny compared to those who will chose Goko.)
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2012, 08:54:39 pm »
+3

Those are my #1 and #2 frustrations with Goko right now -- performance is overall terrible, and a fixed iPad screen resolution is annoying to frustrating on anything but an iPad.  I'm sure it's fantastic to play Dominion online on an iPad.  But making my gameplay suffer on my laptop or on any of the Android tablets that I have (none have the 4:3 aspect ratio of the iPad, and the game doesn't do a few simple things to let itself scale usefully) is obnoxious.  If they wanted to release an iPad Dominion, they should have done just that.

I can speak from experience that if you think that goko sucks in firefox on your big beefy computer, running it on an ipad in safari might cause you to broaden your vocabulary.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2012, 08:05:34 am »
+1

I believe they are making an app for it.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2012, 09:55:44 am »
0

Now THAT'S funny.
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Re: Goko, quite simply, sucks
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2012, 10:05:02 am »
0

I believe they are making an app for it.

I think what they've said so far is that a native (ie - optimized for ios app) is "planned", but the first version that is released is really just a wrapper around the browser - so that it can be installed as a little app, and Apple can take it's micropayment cut. 
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