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Author Topic: Jack into Engine  (Read 1562 times)

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-Stef-

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Jack into Engine
« on: October 22, 2012, 07:14:14 am »
+7

I played this engine game yesterday. The game itself was fun (164 points in 14 turns) but not that special (sort of mirror won by P1), and by now I've had my fair share of goons engines.

So it's not the engine itself that surprised me here, but the effectiveness of starting it up with Jack.
When I opened with Jack here it felt ok but not much more then that. I was even in doubt for a while. Looking back it seems like an uber-must-buy.

It seems like the combination of awkward destruction (Mint & Watchtower), relatively expensive engine components (3, 4, 5, 6) and the explosiveness of the final engine (Goons just does that) combine into making this the perfect Jack board.

On rare occasions I've seen Jack shine in other engines with Spice Merchant and/or Remodel, but all quite pale compared to this.
Maybe he is off-all-trades after all.
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Davio

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Re: Jack into Engine
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 07:39:26 am »
+3

Oh no, it's even more broken now.  :-[
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Jack into Engine
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 01:01:53 pm »
0

This is really interesting. I think the generalization of the idea is that Jack can be a good opening for an engine if the only trashing is treasure trashing (here Mint), so the Jack can trash the Estates and Copper-trasher, and the other trasher can trash any excess Silvers if necessary. Here the Watchtower helps in that role, since Mint is not a multi-use card like Spice Merchant. Jack/Spice and Jack/Mint aren't the greatest trashing combos ever, but if the Engine is strong enough that you have to do it anyway instead of Jack into some sort of BM (here because of Goons, but more generally any really good attack), then it's a good way to go.
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clb

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Re: Jack into Engine
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 02:49:06 pm »
0

I have a question about your use of Watchtower's topdecking ability. Both of you were very consistent in topdecking Bazaar, WV, or WT, but in never topdecking a Goons. This was true even on turns where you bought Goons and WV. In that situation, why would you not want to also topdeck the Goons?
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jonts26

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Re: Jack into Engine
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 02:54:03 pm »
+2

With only a handful of non drawing cards, it's almost certain that if you can start your chain, you'll get to play your goons anyway. But it's more important to ensure that you'll have sufficient villages to kick things off efficiently, which goons don't help with.

So for instance if I draw village/goons/goons/WT/silver, well i'm in trouble if that village doesnt draw another because I will have to play WT for less card draw. If I refrain from topdecking the goons, I have a better chance of drawing multiple villages, which will probably then draw more goons.
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jonts26

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Re: Jack into Engine
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 07:40:23 pm »
0

So I just played a game where I went Jack into an engine as well.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/22/game-20121022-163732-281ae266.html

Basically, I used jack to get early economy and turn estates into silvers. Then I used remodel to turn silvers into wharves, inns, and an outpost.
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clb

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Re: Jack into Engine
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 07:49:18 pm »
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With only a handful of non drawing cards, it's almost certain that if you can start your chain, you'll get to play your goons anyway. But it's more important to ensure that you'll have sufficient villages to kick things off efficiently, which goons don't help with.

So for instance if I draw village/goons/goons/WT/silver, well i'm in trouble if that village doesnt draw another because I will have to play WT for less card draw. If I refrain from topdecking the goons, I have a better chance of drawing multiple villages, which will probably then draw more goons.

Thanks, Jonts.
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