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Author Topic: Pure treasure deck!?  (Read 6416 times)

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TwiNight

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Pure treasure deck!?
« on: October 21, 2012, 08:21:47 am »
+2

Has been some time since this subforum's last post. So I decided to post a challenge.

Solo game.
You can choose the kingdom and assume perfect shuffle luck.

If the kingdom contains Dark Ages cards, you can choose to start with either Estates or Shelters.
If the all Kingdom Cards are from Dark Ages, you must start with Shelters.
No Colony/Platinum, even when using an all-Prosperity kingdom.

End the game with the least number of turns.

Constraint: Your Deck (includes your hand, set-aside cards, and discard pile) must not contain anything but Treasures and starting Estates/Shelters at any point in time before your last turn begins. All 8 Provinces must be in your Deck when the game ends.

Clarification: Multi-type Treasures (e.g Harem, FG) are Treasures.

Note: This challenge requires EXTREME shuffle luck. Don't try to do it on iso or you are destined to fail.

EDIT: To give a benchmark, the best I could do is 13 turns. But feel free to post any ideas/attempts.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 09:34:03 am by TwiNight »
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Schneau

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 08:36:30 am »
0

Usually the point of these solo challenges was to play an actual game without assuming perfect shuffle luck. This type of puzzle is better for the Puzzles and Challenges subforum, since it is more of a puzzle (since it assumes perfect shuffle luck).

I'd be tempted to try this on Iso, except it doesn't have Counterfeit, which, while not necessarily required, seems like it would help things quite a bit.
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TwiNight

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2012, 09:31:45 am »
0

New to forum......
Any mod can move this post for me?

And, you are right, Counterfeit is in my kingdom.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2012, 10:34:32 am »
0

Just a question for solo games,

Contraband is effectively just a cheap Gold with a +1 Buy?  Nothing is forbidden, right?
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2012, 10:43:31 am »
+1

I assume that the big idea is using Counterfeit+Venture to draw lots of treasure.  Then either using Contraband or Horn of Plenty to allow you to gain so many Provinces in one turn.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 10:45:10 am »
0

I though I had it until I realised Bank doesn't count Treasures that have been trashed.
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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 01:37:14 am »
+1

I though I had it until I realised Bank doesn't count Treasures that have been trashed.

You don't have to trash to Counterfeit - just use it for +Buy.
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TwiNight

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 04:40:36 am »
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I assume that the big idea is using Counterfeit+Venture to draw lots of treasure.  Then either using Contraband or Horn of Plenty to allow you to gain so many Provinces in one turn.
Correct.
The 2 main sub-challenges of this challenge are:
  • The details of a Treasure combo that can gain all Provinces in 1 turn
  • How can I get this combo in the least time?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 04:43:46 am by TwiNight »
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TwiNight

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2012, 04:48:17 am »
0

I though I had it until I realised Bank doesn't count Treasures that have been trashed.

You don't have to trash to Counterfeit - just use it for +Buy.

I doubt you will have enough coins to buy Provinces
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2012, 06:21:46 am »
0

I though I had it until I realised Bank doesn't count Treasures that have been trashed.

You don't have to trash to Counterfeit - just use it for +Buy.

I doubt you will have enough coins to buy Provinces

Yeah if you just want the +buys you may as well use Contraband. I think you really want Counterfeit in order to play more treasures.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 11:51:48 am by Jimmmmm »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2012, 07:32:31 am »
+1

The big limitation I'm hitting is that you can only play a counterfeit on a treasure in your hand.  In particular, you can't counterfeit anything you draw with Venture.  Consequently, you can counterfeit at most four treasures.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2012, 05:02:53 pm »
+4

OK, I see how to buy them all in one turn

You get precisely $64 and 8 buys.  Wow, that's cool!

Have a hand of five Ventures.
Play a Venture1 from your hand, draw and play venture, draw and play venture, ... , and so on until 6 Ventures are in play and then draw and play Counterfeit.

Play Venture2 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture3 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture4 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture5 from your hand, drawing and playing two Banks.

None of these treasures are trashed until after the second Bank is played by this ordering.

$14 from Venture
$4 from Counterfeit
$9 from Contraband
$18 from Bank1
$19 from Bank2

$64 total.

1 base buy, +4 buys from Counterfeit, +3 buys from Contraband.

By the way, it's not possible using treasure alone to get Horn of Plenty up to $8.


Neat.  I have no interest in finding the quickest way to build up to this turn, however.


« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 05:07:34 pm by SirPeebles »
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Schneau

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2012, 05:15:07 pm »
0

OK, I see how to buy them all in one turn

You get precisely $64 and 8 buys.  Wow, that's cool!

Have a hand of five Ventures.
Play a Venture1 from your hand, draw and play venture, draw and play venture, ... , and so on until 6 Ventures are in play and then draw and play Counterfeit.

Play Venture2 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture3 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture4 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture5 from your hand, drawing and playing two Banks.

None of these treasures are trashed until after the second Bank is played by this ordering.

$14 from Venture
$4 from Counterfeit
$9 from Contraband
$18 from Bank1
$19 from Bank2

$64 total.

1 base buy, +4 buys from Counterfeit, +3 buys from Contraband.

By the way, it's not possible using treasure alone to get Horn of Plenty up to $8.


Neat.  I have no interest in finding the quickest way to build up to this turn, however.

Does this really work? Specifically, are the Ventures and Counterfeits really all in play, or are some of them trashed before playing the Banks?

I guess this is very similar to Procession -> Golem, in that the Golem won't be trashed until all the cards it plays are finished, including other Processions.

If so, Bravo sir, this is a nice solution.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 05:27:45 pm »
+1

I assume that, like Procession, Counterfeit won't trash until the card it is applied to has been played and resolved twice.  I have a binary tree drawn on a sheet of paper here, but it's difficult to put into text.  How about this.



V = Venture
Cf = Counterfeit
Cb = Contraband
B = Bank
* = in hand


.....*V
......V
......V
......V
......V
......V
......Cf
......*V
..Cb....Cf
.........*V
......Cb...Cf
............*V
...........Cb..Cf
.................*V
...............B.....B

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Jimmmmm

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 05:29:06 pm »
0

OK, I see how to buy them all in one turn

You get precisely $64 and 8 buys.  Wow, that's cool!

Have a hand of five Ventures.
Play a Venture1 from your hand, draw and play venture, draw and play venture, ... , and so on until 6 Ventures are in play and then draw and play Counterfeit.

Play Venture2 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture3 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture4 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture5 from your hand, drawing and playing two Banks.

None of these treasures are trashed until after the second Bank is played by this ordering.

$14 from Venture
$4 from Counterfeit
$9 from Contraband
$18 from Bank1
$19 from Bank2

$64 total.

1 base buy, +4 buys from Counterfeit, +3 buys from Contraband.

By the way, it's not possible using treasure alone to get Horn of Plenty up to $8.


Neat.  I have no interest in finding the quickest way to build up to this turn, however.

Nice! I was almost there, just didn't think to put the Banks in the right place so the others weren't trashed.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2012, 05:36:06 pm »
0

I feel like this solution is unique (up to where you stick the excess Ventures), since it seemed to fall out naturally from considering the optimal order in which various cards can be played.  Any other solutions without Platinum?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 11:21:23 am by SirPeebles »
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TwiNight

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2012, 06:54:18 pm »
0

OK, I see how to buy them all in one turn

You get precisely $64 and 8 buys.  Wow, that's cool!

Have a hand of five Ventures.
Play a Venture1 from your hand, draw and play venture, draw and play venture, ... , and so on until 6 Ventures are in play and then draw and play Counterfeit.

Play Venture2 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture3 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture4 from your hand, drawing and playing Contraband and then Counterfeit.

Play Venture5 from your hand, drawing and playing two Banks.

None of these treasures are trashed until after the second Bank is played by this ordering.

$14 from Venture
$4 from Counterfeit
$9 from Contraband
$18 from Bank1
$19 from Bank2

$64 total.

1 base buy, +4 buys from Counterfeit, +3 buys from Contraband.

By the way, it's not possible using treasure alone to get Horn of Plenty up to $8.


Neat.  I have no interest in finding the quickest way to build up to this turn, however.

HAHA!! Someone got it!!
My hand was Counterfeit + 4 Ventures. And I use binary tree too!! Want a picture of it?

I come up with this challenge when thinking about the "Horn for Horn and buy Horn, 3 Horns for 3 Horns, 6 Horns for Provinces" combo.
I tried to play Horn for $8-gains to solve this challenge, but eventually figured out I can't.
So I switched to Counterfeit/Venture.
Took some time to get it working.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2012, 08:58:39 pm »
0

Is your tree substantively different from the one I posted?  Certainly I could have stuck the excess Ventures anywhere before the first Bank.  In particular, I could have started with a Counterfeit in hand.  I'd be very interested in yours if it had a different structure, though :)
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TwiNight

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2012, 09:43:08 pm »
0

Is your tree substantively different from the one I posted?  Certainly I could have stuck the excess Ventures anywhere before the first Bank.  In particular, I could have started with a Counterfeit in hand.  I'd be very interested in yours if it had a different structure, though :)
It's almost the same. The only differences are starting with a Counterfeit and moving the Ventures due to reshuffling restrictions.

T = Counterfeit, N = Contraband, V = Venture
Draw: TVVVV
T - V#1 - V - V - V - N
   - V#1 - V - V - V - T - V#2 - N
                                 - V#2 - T - ...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 06:12:53 am by TwiNight »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2012, 11:27:35 am »
+1

I don't think this puzzle needs the "no Platinum" stipulation.  I'm pretty sure that Platinum cannot be worked into the final turn, at least.  Maybe Platinum could get you to this turn faster, but I seriously doubt it, since you'll be aiming to purchase multiple components each turn.
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ToraX

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2012, 10:03:35 am »
+2

By the way, it's not possible using treasure alone to get Horn of Plenty up to $8.
I tried to play Horn for $8-gains to solve this challenge, but eventually figured out I can't.

It's not spectacular and doesn't solve the puzzle...but here's how to get an $8 Horn of Plenty with only Treasures:
Hand 2x Counterfeit 3x Venture:

Play Venture finding Gold
Play Counterfeit->Venture finding Silver and Ill Gotten Gains gaining a copper to hand
Play Copper
Play Counterfeit->Venture finding Contraband and Horn Of Plenty

Treasures in Play: Copper, Silver, Gold, Contraband, Counterfeit, Venture, IGG, and HoP makes 8


Also it will take way longer, but the solution can be upgraded to buy all 8 Colonies in one turn this way:
Replace the two banks with two Philosopher's Stones worth $31 each which means you need 155 cards in your deck above and beyond the cards used in the solution.
At least one of those will be a potion needed to buy Philosopher's Stone, but that's okay, because Potion is a treasure too

It will take a while, but all 8 colonies in one turn with nothing but treasure is possible
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SirPeebles

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Re: Pure treasure deck!?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2012, 11:35:53 am »
0

By the way, it's not possible using treasure alone to get Horn of Plenty up to $8.
I tried to play Horn for $8-gains to solve this challenge, but eventually figured out I can't.

It's not spectacular and doesn't solve the puzzle...but here's how to get an $8 Horn of Plenty with only Treasures:
Hand 2x Counterfeit 3x Venture:

Play Venture finding Gold
Play Counterfeit->Venture finding Silver and Ill Gotten Gains gaining a copper to hand
Play Copper
Play Counterfeit->Venture finding Contraband and Horn Of Plenty

Treasures in Play: Copper, Silver, Gold, Contraband, Counterfeit, Venture, IGG, and HoP makes 8


Also it will take way longer, but the solution can be upgraded to buy all 8 Colonies in one turn this way:
Replace the two banks with two Philosopher's Stones worth $31 each which means you need 155 cards in your deck above and beyond the cards used in the solution.
At least one of those will be a potion needed to buy Philosopher's Stone, but that's okay, because Potion is a treasure too

It will take a while, but all 8 colonies in one turn with nothing but treasure is possible


Right!  Ill Gotten Gains.  I had that in mind early on as part of my plan, but must have forgotten about it.
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