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Author Topic: Embargo 2.0  (Read 11320 times)

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shark_bait

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Embargo 2.0
« on: October 17, 2012, 02:39:17 pm »
+3

Inspiration from this thread

Perhaps my favorite part about dominion is that each game is a unique experience.  It is also intriguing to me the effect of a single card changing how the other nine kingdom cards interact.  Obviously some powerhouse cards like King’s Court, Mountebank, etc. are all worthy of impacting the game like this.  But there is one card that does this in such a unique and subtle way that requires a large breadth of skill to properly implement.  That card, of course, is Embargo.

Embargo is a one-shot $2 cost card giving you +$2 and it places on token on a supply pile causing any subsequent purchase from that pile to gain a curse.  This leads to a multitude of ways in which this card can be utilized effectively and I will try to summarize them below.

Cards that Gain

Embargo has a unique interaction with the gain/buy distinction.  The curse is only gained when you buy the card, not when you gain it.  Using things like Workshop, Remodel, HoP, etc. to gain cards rather than buy them allows you to plan ahead for a gain based strategy and Embargo the key piles.  In such a way, you can lock out your opponent from obtaining these cards.

Stalling/Preserving the Game

Have you found yourself in a hole?  Does a comeback look hopeless?  Embargoing the VP cards forces your opponent to either suffer more heavily from greening or to build a bigger economy.  Meanwhile you can attempt to repair the damage and catch back up and hope that by the time green is being purchased, you are close enough in deck power to make a stab at victory.  Also consider if you are winning significantly.  Consider Embargoing Duchies denying your opponents ability to catch up with minor VP cards.

Recognizing the Key Cards

Oftentimes when playing dominion you look at the kingdom and try to recognize the cards that will be most crucial to victory.  This is why some people are better at Dominion than others, they are better at doing this.  Adding Embargo to a kingdom like this can often make it the key card.  Is your opponent pursuing a strategy that relies on Village support?  Embargo Village.  Is he going for Potion based cards?  Embargo them (but if it’s Familiar, you need them too).  An extremely dominant strategy can often be countered by strategic Embargoing of one of its key components. 

The 5/2 Start (Getting it First)

A powerful part of Embargo is when you can open $5/$2.  A very powerful opening is to use Embargo to force your opponent to gain a curse if they wish to have the same powerful $5-cost card as you.  This also applies to getting other powerful cards first.  Anytime you can lock your opponent out from getting something that you already have, it can be useful to do.

When to Buy Embargo?

Embargo can be a very obvious buy when you only have $2 to spend.  But oftentimes you will not have the luxury of having exactly that.  You need to assess the importance of obtaining Embargo and oftentimes, you will purchase when extra money.  This can be alleviated mid-game when you have acquired some +buy.  But early game you must always be willing to spend down for Embargo if it is the card that will shut down your opponent’s strategy and enable yours to win.

Conclussion

With Dominion being such a diverse game with trillions of combinations, this article can not possibly cover everything.  It is my hope that I have addressed in a general sense the main ways in which Embargo can be used effectively.  I am leaving it up to the reader to assess the board and see when/how Embargo needs to be played.  That being said, there is one situation where you absolutely must use Embargo.   Scout is an exceptionally powerful card and using Embargo to deny your opponent said card will always help you to victory.  Just make sure that you have bought at least one yourself before placing your Embargo token on the supply pile.

Easter Eggs

Trader/Watchtower can allow you to completely circumvent the effects of Embargo.  Embargoing piles, especially curses can lead to sneaky 3-pile endings.  With TR/KC, they are an action card that also generates income.  If the artwork had a tiger on the boat, you might confuse it for a depiction of The Life of Pi.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 10:56:32 am by shark_bait »
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werothegreat

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 02:45:59 pm »
+1

Going Vineyard when your opponent isn't?  KC-KC-Embargo-Embargo; now buying a Duchy or a Province will rip him a new one.
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greatexpectations

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 02:53:03 pm »
+2

Going Vineyard when your opponent isn't?  KC-KC-Embargo-Embargo; now buying a Duchy or a Province will rip him a new one.

...and your opponent embargos potions and vineyards.
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shark_bait

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 02:58:31 pm »
+2

If you ever get a hand with KC/KC/Embargo/Embargo, that would definitely be awesome.  But having the Embargo's is probably irrelevant at that point since you're probably winning already.  Embargo is a card that exemplifies early decisions affecting late-game.  Hence the importance of recognizing right away whether you need one and know the importance of getting it on the right pile.
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werothegreat

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 03:12:52 pm »
+1

Of course, Watchtower makes the whole endeavor pointless.
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shark_bait

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 03:16:46 pm »
+1

Of course, Watchtower makes the whole endeavor pointless.

Yet another reason why I love Embargo  :D
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Asklepios

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 03:43:08 pm »
+1

Cards that Gain

Embargo has a unique interaction with the gain/buy distinction.  The curse is only gained when you buy the card, not when you gain it.  Using things like Workshop, Remodel, HoP, etc. to gain cards rather than buy them allows you to plan ahead for a gain based strategy and Embargo the key piles.  In such a way, you can lock out your opponent from obtaining these cards.

Though of course you need to make sure that you have a monopoly on the "gain" cards by Embargoing those as soon as you have one. All in all, a multistep process that can take too long.

For me the number one use of embargo is...

Impairing the strategy you're not using, but your opponent is.

This takes a little pattern recognition and experience, but often you can predict the route your opponent is planning to take by watching his first two turns buys. If you take a different route, and get embargoes early, you might be able to embargo cards that are key to your opponent's strategy but not to yours.

For example, consider a board where the strongest startegy looks to be BM + 2 Smithies, but where there is an engine based approach that is only slightly inferior, and which doesn't involve Smithies.

He opens Smithy+Silver, telegraphing his intentions. You open (engine component) + embargo (e.g. Bridge + Embargo). On the third turn you play Embargo on the gold, and thus make the BM+X game weaker.

This is a very specific case, I know, but this is meant as an example of the sort of game when you could play this strategy rather than an exclusive case.


The number 2 strongest use for embargo for me is...

Protecting an early luck-based advantage

I say luck-based, as generally you need to be skilful AND lucky to get the advantage first, and then to get the embargo on fast enough.

The 5/2 split example is a good example of this, but there are other early luck-based advantages that can be worth protecting. For example, if a kingdom looks to need money, and you get gold before your opponent does, putting an embargo on gold will give you a massive advantage.

Similarly if King's Court (or some other excellent action card) is in play, and you get the first one, you can put an embargo on King's Court to make sure that your opponent has to suffer to get one as well. If you get REALLY lucky, you could even King's Court the Embargo on King's Court, and make it extremely likely you'll have the only King's Court of the game!



Also, I'd emphasise that embargo is a high skill card, which takes a lot of thought about consequences, and that you should never assume that embargoing a card means that a card becomes impossible to buy: it just makes it less attractive. Also, it may be worth mentioning that in slow games, or games with cursers, embargoes may become redundant when the curses run out.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 03:47:08 pm by Asklepios »
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shark_bait

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 03:54:28 pm »
+2



:P

(I think you added great insight but I couldn't resist the opportunity to meme)
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 07:36:04 pm »
0

Maybe you should also talk more about the cost. The $2 cost of Embargo is there so you can always buy it when you want to -- not because it's not good enough to cost $3-4. So it's wrong to just look at it as some card that you buy when you can't afford Silver (though it has that function as well). Although it hides at the bottom of the card list on isotropic, it's often one of the most important cards!
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 02:39:23 am »
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I would add something like "Preserving a lead" by embargoing victory cards in order to lower the available amount of victory points for your opponent(s) to catch up. Aside from that, great article.
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dondon151

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 03:00:06 am »
0

I don't think I've ever found embargoing Victory cards when behind to be a winning strategy in the absence of alt VP or VP tokens. Obviously such situations may exist, but when you need Provinces to win and your opponent has received fewer Curses than you have from buying Provinces, you are not going to come from behind that way.

Also consider 2 niche uses of Embargo:
1. Embargo is an action that gives coin. TR and KC allow it to produce more money than most Treasures, and it is very cheap to pick up on extra buys. Kind of useless without some sort of facilitator like TR/KC, gainers, or cost reducers, because the +$2 of Embargo will just be used to buy another Embargo...
2. Embargoing certain piles (especially Curses) give you an easier route to win via 3-pile, one of them being Curse.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 03:03:18 am by dondon151 »
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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 09:31:55 am »
0

Of course, Watchtower makes the whole endeavor pointless.

And Trader makes it extra pointless. (Free Silvers with every purchase!)
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shark_bait

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 10:55:48 am »
0

Updated a few things.
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timchen

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 12:58:46 pm »
0

One should also stress the difficulty in using it: namely, except for the asymmetric luck openings, it is pretty hard for one to plan when to get the embargo. In competitive games it is pretty rare that one can find a chance to embargo a key card where it does not somehow involved in his own deck.

Say, Familiar on board with no other potion cost card. I opened potion. Do you open embargo?
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dondon151

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 01:18:15 pm »
0

Say, Familiar on board with no other potion cost card. I opened potion. Do you open embargo?

The answer to this one is almost always no, because the player with Familiar can put more Curses into your deck than he will get from the Embargo.
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timchen

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 02:18:06 pm »
0

That's my point. Actually, to be more precise:

In a competitive enough match up, say there is one key card to a dominant strategy, there are two possible scenario:
(1) that strategy is not stoppable by a single embargo, and none of the players try to embargo the key card.
(2) That strategy is killed by embargo, so both players will not rely on that strategy alone.

The problem is that in either case, it is quite possible that embargo is not bought at all. It presence changes the game in (2), but usually not in an interesting way. After all it is pretty hard to imagine some killer strategy without help from any particular kingdom card.
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Asklepios

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2012, 04:01:37 am »
0

I don't think I've ever found embargoing Victory cards when behind to be a winning strategy in the absence of alt VP or VP tokens. Obviously such situations may exist, but when you need Provinces to win and your opponent has received fewer Curses than you have from buying Provinces, you are not going to come from behind that way.

I'ev not seen it happen either, but I can see it happening if you're 4:3 provinces up, but your opponent is first player. In that case putting an embargo would be just enough to force him to delay a turn to buy estate before buying province, so theoretically its there.
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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2012, 04:57:47 am »
0

Going Vineyard when your opponent isn't?  KC-KC-Embargo-Embargo; now buying a Duchy or a Province will rip him a new one.

...and your opponent embargos potions and vineyards.

Yep, Embargo stops any Potion strategy in its tracks.
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Asklepios

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2012, 06:09:46 am »
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Or at least, it strongly discourages it.

In a strong Vineyards set (say one with Ironworks) I'd be inclined to see Embargoes on Vineyards as just another route to the game ending three-pile.
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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 06:11:20 am »
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Going Vineyard when your opponent isn't?  KC-KC-Embargo-Embargo; now buying a Duchy or a Province will rip him a new one.

...and your opponent embargos potions and vineyards.

Yep, Embargo stops any Potion strategy in its tracks.
Not really, if an opponent Embargos Familiar, you might still take it.
I mean, winning the Curse split 9-1 or 8-2 is pretty good, you know....
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Asklepios

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2012, 04:18:14 am »
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Exactly, I agree.

In fact, I'd say playing Embargo on Familiar then buying the first Familiar would be a good move if your opponent is trying to acquire familiars too (which he ought to be), as it speeds the split without changing the ratio, thus upping the tempo of the game, which is to your favour if you are running faster.
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jomini

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2012, 11:39:03 am »
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Another thing to recall with embargo is that embargoing, say engine components is a lot less powerful if the opponent has strong trashing. E.g. say you embargo festivals and I opened Lib/Chap. Dealing with a curse a turn is not that hard in a heavy trashing/engine environment.

Embargo tends to hurt Big Money more than engines because: a. there is little trashing (though something like Double Jack may deal with the curses well enough) b. gold is such a chokepoint. Embargo tends to hurt sifting/cycling engines (e.g. Cellar/Xroads/Possession, Hunting party, Warehouse/Conspirator) more than big draw engines - the latter have an easier time lining up any trashing with the curses. Both, in turn, are more affected than ultra-lean engines or decks (it costs 3 VP to deal with an embargo in a Golden Deck, tops).

The combos I could see with embargo include:
1. Embargo/Market Square. You need some sifting, live draw, or trashing to pull this off, but you can easily gain several golds per embargo. It can be a surprise option for going Market Square when there is no other trashing, but strong sifting like warehouse on the board.
2. Embargo/Trader/+buy. I've never quite gotten this one to work, but maybe I'm just mistiming it. The idea here is to embargo the curse pile and use +buys for a silver flood - something like Margrave sounds good, but timing is difficult or impossible.
3. Embargo/Watchtower/(Kc/Tr/Procession). Wt allows you to use Embargo as dissappearing cash and allows you to pile out the curses with minimal +buy. Embargo works really well with any limited draw (Jack, Lib, Wt) coupled with any of the three enablers listed, you spend 2 coin and get back 4 next turn with some strategic options for later.
4. Embargo/Prssn. If you are using Prssn and you need a spammable 3, like village or menage, Embargo works out well. You have to trash it anyways, so you may as well hit it with Prssn and get the 3 you need.
5. Embargo/Cost reducers. Because embargo is cheap and leaves your deck on play, you can often get them for free with something like a village/smithy/bridge deck and burn them off with any surplus +action. This allows you to play tactically by delaying the other guy until your megaturn hits or by opening a credible 3 pile threat (e.g. villages/embargoes/estates), particularly if you have a +buy advantage.

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dondon151

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2012, 04:55:57 pm »
+1

I really don't get some of these abbreviations that jomini uses; Prssn and Secham are especially confusing. I keep thinking that the first one is either Possession or something not Dominion-related and the latter is Scheme.
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jomini

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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2012, 06:02:59 pm »
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They are all one of several types of cable traffic shortening codes:
1. First syllable (e.g. Lib = Library)
2. Syllabic abbreviations (e.g Tr = Throne room, Wt = Watchtower)
3. Phoneme codes (e.g. Prssn) - These are most likely weirdest ones, but I try to preserve the most unique and identifying sounds of each card. Hence why there is an "r" for Prssn and "am" in Secham.

In general, my rules are:
a. all card code should begin with a single capitalized letter.
b. all card codes should be seven characters or under.
c. similar phonemes should have similar abbreviations unless something prohibits it (Phou, Chou would be Poor and Counting House respectively).
d. if I see a sufficiently widely used abbreviation, I'll use that instead.
e. due to request, I try to mention each card once in full by name before abbreviating it. Afterwards.

Hopefully, this helps. Once Guilds comes out, I'll likely post an entire list of short card codes (perhaps keeping everything to 5 characters or under if the names can do it without being too stretched).
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Re: Embargo 2.0
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2012, 12:44:47 am »
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I really don't get some of these abbreviations that jomini uses; Prssn and Secham are especially confusing. I keep thinking that the first one is either Possession or something not Dominion-related and the latter is Scheme.

I see Prssn == Procession pretty easily.  Secham is weird.  Took me a few seconds, but I believe it is Secret Chamber (which I usually abbreviate as SC).
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