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Author Topic: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper  (Read 2654 times)

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Rush_Clasic

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Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« on: October 15, 2012, 03:06:48 am »
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Peacekeeper (3)
Action - Reaction
+2 Cards
If no Attack cards are in the Supply:
+1 Card
Discard a card.
-----
Whenever another player plays an Attack card, you may set this aside from your hand revealed and trash a copy of that card from the Supply. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack. At the start of this turn's Clean-up, return this to your hand.



  • War. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
  • The story of this card came about in a rather reverse order. Considering Young Witch, it seems you could make a similar design that includes an actual Reaction card in the Kingdom rather than turning another card into one. The opposite seems just as true: a Reaction card can utilize the fun setup idea by including a random Attack card in the Kingdom. While I think both ideas are worthwhile, this brainstorming really made me want to design a Reaction card that got better when no Attacks were around. Thus, Peacekeeper.
  • This was a tricky card to balance. It needs to be sufficient whether attack cards are in the Kingdom or not, because that's its design goal. Making it a bigger Moat with a few quirks handled a lot of the design issues... I think.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:25:14 am by Rush_Clasic »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 05:51:52 am »
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Seems great against Minion and Cultist,  and to a lesser extent against Torturer.  But how often do Attack piles run out?  Even when with this card, it seems it would be rare.  And then this card is worse than moat.  And what if there's an attack like Saboteur that no one buys?  Then this card is just hosed.

I think it would be better is it's usual action were different from moat.
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enquerencia

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2012, 06:33:00 am »
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The reaction is a little confusing.  You reveal your hand and set aside the peacekeeper, and it stays out until clean-up, meaning you don't get to play as an action, if you play it as a reaction?  I like that it lets you trash from the supply, but as has been mentioned, that's not often very effective.  And if they throne room it you're boned, because peacekeeper only stops one of them. 

I think you should be able to reveal your hand with the peacekeeper to stop it, but if you choose, you can trash a card from your hand and a copy of that card from the supply, keeping the peacekeeper in hand.  Toss out early curses while throwing away future ones as well, and later, just to end the game during a brief lead by dumping a duchy and ending the pile, and buying a province to seal the lead.

But maybe that should cost more.  Maybe even 5.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 06:49:21 am »
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The reaction is a little confusing.  You reveal your hand and set aside the peacekeeper, and it stays out until clean-up, meaning you don't get to play as an action, if you play it as a reaction?  I like that it lets you trash from the supply, but as has been mentioned, that's not often very effective.  And if they throne room it you're boned, because peacekeeper only stops one of them. 

I think you should be able to reveal your hand with the peacekeeper to stop it, but if you choose, you can trash a card from your hand and a copy of that card from the supply, keeping the peacekeeper in hand.  Toss out early curses while throwing away future ones as well, and later, just to end the game during a brief lead by dumping a duchy and ending the pile, and buying a province to seal the lead.

But maybe that should cost more.  Maybe even 5.

I think you only reveal Peacekeeper, not your whole hand.  And it says Peacekeeper is returned at the start of *this* turn's clean up.  So unless your opponent somehow played an attack during your turn, you'll have it back before your turn begins.  In a 3+ player game, you'll have it back in time to block an attack from the next player, even.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 12:45:47 pm »
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Do you have to discard a card if there are attack cards in the supply? I think the card would be better if you only have to discard if you drew a third card. Otherwise, I rather like this. The reaction seems correctly worded to me.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 02:03:26 pm »
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I was thinking: could the top half get "+1 Buy" without much harm? +2 Cards, +1 Buy seems weaker than Woodcutter overall, but a bit better in the level 2 status, which is right around where I want this card's power level.

Seems great against Minion and Cultist,  and to a lesser extent against Torturer.  But how often do Attack piles run out?  Even when with this card, it seems it would be rare.  And then this card is worse than moat.  And what if there's an attack like Saboteur that no one buys?  Then this card is just hosed.

Lots of cards get hosed by the board. This card is trying to lessen variance, but that doesn't mean it should destroy it. If you have a Kingdom with Saboteur and Moat, you have the same effect, really. That is an argument for adding the +1 Buy, but not really an argument for the way its designed. This already fairs better than Moat on boards with no attacks. One attack no one wants is just an acceptable drawback for this card.

Do you have to discard a card if there are attack cards in the supply? I think the card would be better if you only have to discard if you drew a third card. Otherwise, I rather like this. The reaction seems correctly worded to me.

You only have to discard if you drew the extra card. There would be a line break between the top half abilities and the bottom half abilities on the actual card.

SirPeebles

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 03:57:29 pm »
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I agree that it's a nice card when there are no Attacks on the board.  When there are attacks, but ones that noone wants or that noone wants lots of then it is essentially a weak moat (a once-per-turn moat).

As I mentioned, it's great against minion, and in a very interesting way.  Usually you either have to race for the minions or you let your opponent have free reign of the pile.  Peacemaker allows you to virtually compete in the minion race while not committing your deck or buys to being a minion deck, thereby allowing for interesting strategic differences.  And as defense, since you are setting the peacemaker aside you will have four card hand which is immune to subsequent minions.  And all this without totally shutting down your opponent's strategy, so opponents will still sometimes opt to go Minion.  All in all A+ design for minion games.

It's also great fun vs. Cultists.  Cultists are another card which is often acquire en masse and chained together.  Peacemakers a) prevent you receiving a Ruins, b) virtually participates in the Cultist rush in the same sense as the prior paragraph, and c) allows you to draw 3 cards since a Cultist is trashed.  Your opponent may draw an additional Cultist to play, but if you bought lots of Peacemakers you're just as likely to have drawn another Peacemaker.  You may have even more "Draw-splosion" for the Cultist chain than the player performing the Cultist chain.  Sounds really neat.

But any game with attacks, but not ones that you want to purchase en masse (e.g. Minions, Cultists, Torturers, Scrying Pool),  it doesn't seem like the trashing will be all that significant, and it seems unlikely that attack-free Peacemaker will be activated.  It's even less likely to activate if there are two or more attack piles.  Moat can be useful as soon as there's a nasty attack (particularly in 3P and 4P games).  Put Witch in the game, and Moat can be useful.  Put in more attacks?  Say Mountebank, Militia, and Cutpurse?  Moat is only more useful.  Yet these additional piles make it even less likely that Peacekeeper will activate and become more than a Moat.  Now, I suppose that's fine.  It's awesome when no attacks around, a once-per-turn Moat when attacks are around, and extremely interesting when there are Minions or Cultists (I haven't looked through the card list, so maybe another nice match).  But the thing is, the cool mechanic here is the trashing and the activation once no more attacks are left to trash (kind of like City!).  And that's a cool mechanic.  I just feel like it's going to be so rare that this mechanic impacts the game.  I don't mean to dismiss the card as a concept, I'm just wondering how the card could be tweaked so that this mechanic could really have some impact outside of a few niches.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 05:35:35 pm »
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That's a fair assessment. I'm not sure how best to tackle it, though. You can't work on attack piles being empty in some of those cases, or the game just 3-pile ends. The "no attacks" trigger is the interesting part of the card, but the reaction effect functions in rather the same fashion as Moat. It might be an unfortunate part of the card, but not one that detracts a whole lot from the overall enjoyment I think.

To get what you want, I think the design needs to be approached at altogether differently. Perhaps concentrating on a specific attack pile, like the reverse Young Witch I mentioned.

enquerencia

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 08:48:41 am »
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I don't think it's effective or worthwhile to trash cards from the supply that are the same as the attack that was played, which caused the reaction.  Because most attack piles are always at least four deep when the game ends (unless you're playing three plus players, and even then they still very rarely run out), I think it makes a lot more sense to be able to trash a card you have in hand and a copy of it from the supply.  That's a strong reaction.   

You would reveal your entire hand to reveal the peacekeeper because somehow that makes it more balanced in my mind.  Maybe that's just me.  But a card that read:

$5

+2 Cards
+1 Card if there are no attacks in the kingdom
________________________________________

When an attack is played you may reveal your hand, if you do you are immune to this attack, and you may trash a card from your hand.  If you do trash a card, trash a copy of it from the supply.

I'd buy that.

*edited because I left off an obvious but important part.
 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 08:51:17 am by enquerencia »
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One Armed Man

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Re: Clasic_Cards #46 - Peacekeeper
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 10:05:02 am »
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I don't think it's effective or worthwhile to trash cards from the supply that are the same as the attack that was played, which caused the reaction.  Because most attack piles are always at least four deep when the game ends (unless you're playing three plus players, and even then they still very rarely run out), I think it makes a lot more sense to be able to trash a card you have in hand and a copy of it from the supply.  That's a strong reaction.   

You would reveal your entire hand to reveal the peacekeeper because somehow that makes it more balanced in my mind.  Maybe that's just me.  But a card that read:

$5

+2 Cards
+1 Card if there are no attacks in the kingdom
________________________________________

When an attack is played you may reveal your hand, if you do you are immune to this attack, and you may trash a card from your hand.  If you do trash a card, trash a copy of it from the supply.

I'd buy that.

*edited because I left off an obvious but important part.
This lets you reveal it any number of times to trash any number of cards. Also, in no-attacks land this is strictly worse than Smithy.
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