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Author Topic: Bishoping VP Cards  (Read 11251 times)

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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2012, 01:15:43 pm »
+1

I no longer feel like I understand Bishop at all. In theory, you don't want it early, because you'll just be helping your opponent thin his deck. And you don't want it mid-game because it'll kill your economy. And you don't want it late because trashing Provinces costs you 2VP AND an action point AND a card slot in your immediate hand just to get rid of a dead card. And yet people who just buy Bishops and trash everything in sight often beat me. So what exactly is the proper use of this card? Assume no obvious enablers like Hoard or Chapel.
You sometimes want it early, if there's nothing great at $5 and you therefore don't need much economy.
You sometimes want it midgame, once you have enough economy to keep getting the pieces you need.
You sometimes want it late game, because you can trash stuff other than Provinces to get positive points.
Bishop is usually pretty good. There is just some opportunity cost associated with it, so you have to figure out the right timing for it based on the situation.
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WheresMyElephant

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2012, 01:28:37 pm »
0

What's the general opinion on buying a lot of Bishops, with the intention of feeding them to each other? I do this sometimes but I'm never sure if it's correct. The points are decent but maybe nothing as good as if you built up a little more and bought Golds or Provinces to trash; and all those Bishops can really wreck up your deck. Is this ever the right approach (other than, I guess, when the game's about two shuffles from ending?
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Archetype

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2012, 02:05:53 pm »
0

I no longer feel like I understand Bishop at all. In theory, you don't want it early, because you'll just be helping your opponent thin his deck. And you don't want it mid-game because it'll kill your economy. And you don't want it late because trashing Provinces costs you 2VP AND an action point AND a card slot in your immediate hand just to get rid of a dead card. And yet people who just buy Bishops and trash everything in sight often beat me. So what exactly is the proper use of this card? Assume no obvious enablers like Hoard or Chapel.
You sometimes want it early, if there's nothing great at $5 and you therefore don't need much economy.
You sometimes want it midgame, once you have enough economy to keep getting the pieces you need.
You sometimes want it late game, because you can trash stuff other than Provinces to get positive points.
Bishop is usually pretty good. There is just some opportunity cost associated with it, so you have to figure out the right timing for it based on the situation.
I agree with HME, I'll use it late game to trash a few Golds if my economy allows it, or even Action cards that have outlived their usefullness (Moneylender, Loan, etc).

What's the general opinion on buying a lot of Bishops, with the intention of feeding them to each other? I do this sometimes but I'm never sure if it's correct. The points are decent but maybe nothing as good as if you built up a little more and bought Golds or Provinces to trash; and all those Bishops can really wreck up your deck. Is this ever the right approach (other than, I guess, when the game's about two shuffles from ending?

When going for the Golden Deck I'll pick up 1-3 Bishops, trashing each other when the time comes.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2012, 05:21:30 pm »
0

What's the general opinion on buying a lot of Bishops, with the intention of feeding them to each other? I do this sometimes but I'm never sure if it's correct. The points are decent but maybe nothing as good as if you built up a little more and bought Golds or Provinces to trash; and all those Bishops can really wreck up your deck. Is this ever the right approach (other than, I guess, when the game's about two shuffles from ending?
The problem occurs when you draw 2 Bishops and something else you want to trash as well (like an Estate). Then the extra Bishop is actually dead in your hand. If it's instead a Silver, you can maybe buy something better (possibly to eventually trash for points). So at least early on when you have a lot of other things to trash, you're probably usually better off keeping your Bishop count down.
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2012, 11:17:50 am »
0

I no longer feel like I understand Bishop at all. In theory, you don't want it early, because you'll just be helping your opponent thin his deck. And you don't want it mid-game because it'll kill your economy. And you don't want it late because trashing Provinces costs you 2VP AND an action point AND a card slot in your immediate hand just to get rid of a dead card. And yet people who just buy Bishops and trash everything in sight often beat me. So what exactly is the proper use of this card? Assume no obvious enablers like Hoard or Chapel.
Early-game, the VP advantage of Bishop vs. no Bishop is extremely strong, often enough to lose the Province split and win (and after the three Estates, you're giving your opponent the choice of -$1 or no trash). The exception is Colony games, where you're not going to get a 20VP edge, +$1 for two cards is abhorrently weak, and you can't reasonably trash Colonies for VP. Early Bishop in Colony usually loses the Colony split and thus the game.
Mid-late game it is indeed bad for your economy in BM, but the VP edge can be huge, especially if you end up with excess Gold.
Endgame isn't the ideal time to pick one up, but if you've been efficient, you can trash Provinces at -1 per Province to keep your deck humming; or you can trash things like Gold to pick up big-VP turns without a Province buy.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2012, 05:41:56 pm »
0

Early-game, the VP advantage of Bishop vs. no Bishop is extremely strong

But SO bad for your economy. Sure, it's not that bad when you trash your Estates, but when you trash a copper, it's effectively a Monument for no coins. Much better to get the Bishop later and gather VP chips faster with your more expensive deck.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2012, 06:22:22 am »
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Case in point.

My opponent gains four Bishops on turns 3, 5, 6 and 17 and ends up with a total of 19 VP tokens.

I gain a total of one Bishop on turn 12 and get 30 VP tokens from it.
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2012, 01:37:09 pm »
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Case in point.

My opponent gains four Bishops on turns 3, 5, 6 and 17 and ends up with a total of 19 VP tokens.

I gain a total of one Bishop on turn 12 and get 30 VP tokens from it.
Well, this is more an effect of his entire strategy being substantially dumb.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Bishoping VP Cards
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2012, 09:00:38 pm »
0

Case in point.

My opponent gains four Bishops on turns 3, 5, 6 and 17 and ends up with a total of 19 VP tokens.

I gain a total of one Bishop on turn 12 and get 30 VP tokens from it.
Well, this is more an effect of his entire strategy being substantially dumb.

Well there's that.
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