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[Toolshed113]

Incidentally you can learn a lot about a baseball fan by asking whether he supports Cabrera or Trout for MVP.

Indeed you can. Unfortunately, Cabrera is going to win even though Trout has been a far better player. The triple crown just carries too much traditional weight for the Baseball Writers Association to not pick Cabrera. The biggest problem with the triple crown is of course the RBI statistic. RBI's really don't say much about the player who has them, but more about the teammates around the player. Mike Trout bats leadoff, which unfortunately for him results in way fewer RBI opportunities. There are other reasons to vote Trout. Center field is a more important defensive position than third base and Trout is an excellent center fielder. Cabrera was an average or worse first baseman, which translates into a below average third baseman. It's amazing that Detroit did this well considering they have a TERRIBLE defense. Trout's stolen bases are HUGE too.

It comes down to the MVP voters not really being sabermetrically-minded. Trout's 10.7 WAR this year puts him in Hall of Fame territory in his rookie(!) year.

[Ozle]

Well, its no Cricket, but its alright I suppose...

[jonts26]

OK, enough of this Trout vs. Cabrera debate. Let's talk about the real award: NL CY Young.

Dickey for President Cy Young!

[Toolshed113]

Dickey for President Cy Young!

I'd like to see Dickey win it, as much as it pains me to say that as a Phillies fan. I have a feeling Kershaw might pull it out though, but Dickey is such a great guy AND he's been pitching hurt all year. What a man.

I guess it would naturally follow from me being a Phillies fan that I hope the Nationals, Braves and Giants all crash and burn in the playoffs. And the Cardinals too... So uh, go Reds! In the American league, I'm rooting for the A's, Orioles and Rangers (in that order).

[jonts26]

Dickey for President Cy Young!

I'd like to see Dickey win it, as much as it pains me to say that as a Phillies fan. I have a feeling Kershaw might pull it out though, but Dickey is such a great guy AND he's been pitching hurt all year. What a man.

I guess it would naturally follow from me being a Phillies fan that I hope the Nationals, Braves and Giants all crash and burn in the playoffs. And the Cardinals too... So uh, go Reds! In the American league, I'm rooting for the A's, Orioles and Rangers (in that order).

First, as a Phillies fan you are an objectively terrible human being. But if you think Dickey should win, you might not be beyond saving. Second, I think from a purely pitching production standpoint, it's really freaking close between Kershaw and Dickey, with maybe the slightest of edges going to Kershaw. But if you factor in even a fraction of the narrative, Dickey wins in a landslide. Dude is freaking amazing. As for the actual vote, I see no way Kershaw even sniffs the award. While wins are a useless stat, there are still enough voters who care about them to dismiss Kershaw and his 13 outright.

[Toolshed113]

Dickey for President Cy Young!

I'd like to see Dickey win it, as much as it pains me to say that as a Phillies fan. I have a feeling Kershaw might pull it out though, but Dickey is such a great guy AND he's been pitching hurt all year. What a man.

I guess it would naturally follow from me being a Phillies fan that I hope the Nationals, Braves and Giants all crash and burn in the playoffs. And the Cardinals too... So uh, go Reds! In the American league, I'm rooting for the A's, Orioles and Rangers (in that order).

First, as a Phillies fan you are an objectively terrible human being. But if you think Dickey should win, you might not be beyond saving. Second, I think from a purely pitching production standpoint, it's really freaking close between Kershaw and Dickey, with maybe the slightest of edges going to Kershaw. But if you factor in even a fraction of the narrative, Dickey wins in a landslide. Dude is freaking amazing. As for the actual vote, I see no way Kershaw even sniffs the award. While wins are a useless stat, there are still enough voters who care about them to dismiss Kershaw and his 13 outright.

Well, based on that response and your love for Dickey, there's a 99% chance you're a Mets fan. Unfortunately, that means I hate you. But as a saving grace, at least we can join hands and celebrate together the retirement of one of the most soul crushing figures in both of our teams' long history: Chipper Jones. May he live happily ever after at Hooters and never come near our stadiums again.

[Obi Wan Bonogi]

Usually "Go Birds!" is clear and succinct, however this year out of deference to Baltimore I will say: GO CARDINALS!

[theory]

I would think that as a Phillies fan you'd at least try to support Cliff Lee for the Cy Young even though you know it'd never happen.

Also, I wasn't aware that anyone hated Mets fans.  Yankees, sure, Red Sox, of course, but Mets?  They're so harmless.

[Captain_Frisk]

If you're a Philly fan, you have to.  It's part of the contract.

[Toolshed113]

I would think that as a Phillies fan you'd at least try to support Cliff Lee for the Cy Young even though you know it'd never happen.

Also, I wasn't aware that anyone hated Mets fans.  Yankees, sure, Red Sox, of course, but Mets?  They're so harmless.

Anybody related to the Phillies hates anybody related to the Mets and vice versa. Such is the way of nature. As for Lee, it certainly was an interesting and unlucky year for him. I'm sure Cole Hamels will get some odd Cy Young votes here and there. It just shows how much the Cy Young award really isn't about overall pitching performance. Lee and Hamels have very similar numbers outside of W-L record. I think awards voters are getting better about forgetting traditional (read: useless) stats, though. King Felix winning the Cy two years ago (with like 11 wins vs CC Sabathia's 20?) was definitely a step in the right direction.

FYI I also hate the Yankees (my girlfriend is a huge Yankees fan, which is wonderful) and the Red Sox. There's just a special spot in the darkest place of my soul for the Mets. For one, the two teams have a long history of never being good at the same time. One has usually been utterly devastated by the other at any given point in time. Both franchises have long long periods of utter suckitude anyway, so there's some type of commiseration between the teams. Somehow that commiseration ends up turning into more pleasure when the other team sucks. My team may have completely fallen apart this year, but I can take comfort knowing that we beat the Mets. It makes following a 102 win season with this load of fail a little easier to swallow.

[jonts26]

The Phillies/Mets rivalry is an interesting one. Cause for the longest time, Mets fans only had a passing dislike for the Phils fans. Our big hated rival was the braves. Particularly for me growing up during their ridiculous run in the 90s. Then the mets were sort of good again. Then really good. And then horrendous. And as our star fell, we had to watch those smug, insufferable people from philly rejoice that their once futile attempt at sports competence was no more. Especially as the mets historic collapse of '07 was happening. From then on, Phillies became public enemy number one. I don't like the braves making the playoffs, but better than the phillies with their overrated shortstop and first baseman.

[Captain_Frisk]

The collapse of '07 was the one of my best memories.  My team had 2 philly fans, and 2 die hard mets fans.... we had a grand time.  I should dig up some of the emails.

[Toolshed113]

The Phillies/Mets rivalry is an interesting one. Cause for the longest time, Mets fans only had a passing dislike for the Phils fans. Our big hated rival was the braves. Particularly for me growing up during their ridiculous run in the 90s. Then the mets were sort of good again. Then really good. And then horrendous. And as our star fell, we had to watch those smug, insufferable people from philly rejoice that their once futile attempt at sports competence was no more. Especially as the mets historic collapse of '07 was happening. From then on, Phillies became public enemy number one. I don't like the braves making the playoffs, but better than the phillies with their overrated shortstop and first baseman.

Looks like I stopped being a lurker here at the perfect time! Is Howard overrated? HUGELY. Terrible, terrible contract he's signed to. Is J-Roll overrated? Absolutely not. He puts up very solid numbers for a shortstop and is signed to a very team-friendly deal. He's nowhere near his MVP season form (where he really shouldn't even have been MVP, but that's another discussion), but he's still a very productive bat from a premium defensive position where he performs above-average defensively. He also runs the bases well and is the face of the franchise. According to Fangraphs, Rollins was the 3rd most valuable shortstop in the majors this year after Zobrist and Desmond, even edging out Reyes. Would you rather have had Rollins or Reyes this year, considering salaries?

Next you're going to tell me that Utley is overrated... 

[jonts26]

The Phillies/Mets rivalry is an interesting one. Cause for the longest time, Mets fans only had a passing dislike for the Phils fans. Our big hated rival was the braves. Particularly for me growing up during their ridiculous run in the 90s. Then the mets were sort of good again. Then really good. And then horrendous. And as our star fell, we had to watch those smug, insufferable people from philly rejoice that their once futile attempt at sports competence was no more. Especially as the mets historic collapse of '07 was happening. From then on, Phillies became public enemy number one. I don't like the braves making the playoffs, but better than the phillies with their overrated shortstop and first baseman.

Looks like I stopped being a lurker here at the perfect time! Is Howard overrated? HUGELY. Terrible, terrible contract he's signed to. Is J-Roll overrated? Absolutely not. He puts up very solid numbers for a shortstop and is signed to a very team-friendly deal. He's nowhere near his MVP season form (where he really shouldn't even have been MVP, but that's another discussion), but he's still a very productive bat from a premium defensive position where he performs above-average defensively. He also runs the bases well and is the face of the franchise. According to Fangraphs, Rollins was the 3rd most valuable shortstop in the majors this year after Zobrist and Desmond, even edging out Reyes. Would you rather have had Rollins or Reyes this year, considering salaries?

Next you're going to tell me that Utley is overrated... 

I'd rather have reyes in him prime than rollins in his. Reyes decided to drop off a cliff though. And Rollins just keeps chuggin along. Though I guess you seem to be a reasonable person so that's good. Howard is much more overrated than rollins. Rollins is I think good, but not MVP level. And yes, he didn't deserve his. Anyway I wasn't really considering salaries, but yeah thats a point in rollins' favor too.

And I have a man crush on Utley. greatexpectations and I used to dream about the day when he would realize he was playing for a stupid team and defect to the mets. Now, with all the injuries, I'm not so sure. 

[shraeye]

Uhoh Braves...

[Toolshed113]

I have mixed feelings about this. I want the Braves to lose but I don't want to see Chipper go out like this. That error was brutal.

[jonts26]

Ron Darling: "Is it just me or does this stuff only happen in the post season."

It's just you, Ron.

EDIT: That quote was in response to the crazy interference play.

[Toolshed113]

At least we don't have to suffer through the announcing stylings of Joe Buck...

Oh yeah jonts, do you think you guys have any hope of keeping Wright after this year?

[jonts26]

I think there's a good chance. I'm sure the mets will entertain offers for both Dickey and Wright in the offseason, but unless they get blown away they will probably look to extend them both. (cue the dickey extension innuendo) The mets should be looking a decent bit better in the next couple of years, especially if they can pick up a bat or two, and if wright and/or dickey go this offseason, the fanbase will revolt. And ownership doesnt want that.

[Toolshed113]

I really do feel bad about the Mets' financial situation. I want to beat you guys, but I want to beat you at your best. I've also really felt bad about Santana's injuries. I like Johan and was happy for his no hitter.

[jonts26]

I wouldnt expect much next year, but in two years we lose a couple of terrible contracts and we have a ton of pitching talent ready to come up. You also have to hope that the financial mess is sorted out (or hopefully the wilpons actually sell). So we could be competitive then.

[greatexpectations]

Ron Darling: "Is it just me or does this stuff only happen in the post season."

It's just you, Ron.

it's a shame they bring ron into the booth and not gary cohen.

[Toolshed113]

I understand why MLB added this extra round and boy did it work out well for the league. I really don't like this 1 game playoff though... Baseball is a grind. A 5 game series is enough of a crapshoot. It's like a dominion tournament where you play one game. How do you resolve 1st player advantage? BAM! Baseball and dominion intertwined.

[shraeye]

Ron Darling: "Is it just me or does this stuff only happen in the post season."

It's just you, Ron.

EDIT: That quote was in response to the crazy interference play.

ha, yeah.  i love listening to announcers saying silly things

[jonts26]

I actually like it.

For starters, the purpose of the playoffs isn't really to determine the best team in baseball. If we wanted that, we'd look at regular season numbers and their much larger sample size. I mean, 5 or 7 games isn't enough. But the bigger reason for me is that the two wild cards facing off actually rewards the teams with better regular season records. So yeah, it sort of sucks for the two wild card teams, especially since the braves have proven to be a better team, but it's gives a good bump to winning chance for the division winners who are in general better teams (something something tigers).