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Author Topic: Make up your own card?  (Read 27525 times)

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rinkworks

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Make up your own card?
« on: June 16, 2011, 03:29:17 pm »
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Does anybody use the blank cards to make up their own kingdom cards?  It's probably the game designer in me, but I keep having the urge to think up my own card ideas.  I'd like to share one here, but I'm interested in cards that other people have made up and found to work well in their own home games.

One I've found to be very nice is one I've named Architect.  It's a 3-cost card that does this:  "+3 cards. +$1. Put 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck."  I've gone back and forth over making it cost 3 or 4, and whether the monetary bonus should be +$1, +$2, or +$0, but those details are peripheral to the main function of the card.

The reason it's called Architect is that it lets you coordinate not just your current hand but a good chunk of the next one as well.  There is no +action, so you probably want to push actions back on top of your deck, but if played with a village, you still have the freedom to try to plan whether an action sequence is played in the current hand or the next one.  You can also use it to try to group together Treasure Maps, make sure Throne Rooms get paired up with an action, or give your Bishop the card you want to trash.

Two similar cards are Warehouse and Courtyard; interestingly, I made up this Architect card before I became familiar with Intrigue and Seaside, so I didn't derive my card from either of them.  In any case, both Warehouse and Courtyard play very differently:

With Warehouse, the fact that you discard the three cards, rather than returning them to your deck, makes Warehouse a simpler affair -- just discard anything green, for example, any terminals you won't get to, etc.

Courtyard is more similar and yet, somehow, completely different.  The "put one card back" lets you save an action card you wouldn't get to use, but you don't really get to set up your next turn, which is what my card is designed to do.  I find I don't really much care about Courtyard in most games, but Architect seems to fit well in a variety of situations.  The one drawback is that deciding what three cards to put back can be complicated, so it can slow the game down a bit when it comes up.

Thoughts?  Has anybody else made up a card that plays well?
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RichyRich

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 04:19:12 pm »
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My friends and I have toyed around with the idea of having a card that grants a lot of money, or cards, at the price of actions that you currently have. We never got around to designing an actual card, but the we toss it around every now and then.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 04:23:58 pm »
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My friends and I have toyed around with the idea of having a card that grants a lot of money, or cards, at the price of actions that you currently have. We never got around to designing an actual card, but the we toss it around every now and then.
That's difficult to make work within the context of the rules as they are written.
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Glooble

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2011, 04:24:39 pm »
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That is definitely an interesting concept. The only card that offers a similar effect right now I think is the reaction component of secret chamber - useful for countering thieves and pirate ships, mostly. I bet architect would be good in similar situations. Sea Hag, Bureaucrat, Rabble, and Spy are all cards that would make me wary of it though. Combo it with Scrying pool and a world of possibilities open up.

Slightly off topic - you're not the guy who runs rinkworks.com, are you?
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drg

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 04:26:08 pm »
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It's similar to courtyard, but very different from warehouse.  This card would work very well in decks with +actions that let you have access to extra cards, then enabling you to draw the others back using labs, etc.  Putting cards back also works with lookouts, loans, ventures, farming villages, etc that depend what's on top of your deck (as long as you still have actions except loan). Warehouse cycles through decks heavy in low value cards, trying to play the more powerful cards more frequently and shuffle faster to play them again.  If that's the type of deck you have, you don't want to be returning those cards to it.  That said, the card seems like it would be very situational - very useful in some, and not very in many.
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rinkworks

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 04:31:55 pm »
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Slightly off topic - you're not the guy who runs rinkworks.com, are you?

In fact, I am.  Hi!
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Glooble

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 04:49:08 pm »
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I'm a big fan. Ok, done being off-topic now.

This could combo brilliantly with trash-for-benefit cards, especially Forge. Also, Baron.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 04:51:17 pm by Glooble »
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Blaeu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2011, 03:32:59 am »
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I have never really thought about asking for feedback on cards I have made up since... well, I made them up.  Here are my two favorite cards I play with that I've tried hard to balance.

A Victory card: Ancient Tomb -- Cost: $4

Worth 1 Victory Point per Curse you have.

This basically turns Curses into something you wouldn't mind having, to something you would actually buy.  It also really changes how powerful some attack cards like Witch are.  It seems to work when I play with my friends, but I haven't had the opportunity to try it with better players.

My second card:

An Action - Attack card: Spite -- Cost: $4

+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.  If you do, each other player discards one card.

It's very slow as far as trashing goes, but I wanted to combine trashing and attacking.  It started out without the +1 Action, but it seemed too weak like that and no one really wanted it.  The fact you have to trash a card to trigger that attack prevents the +1 Action from allowing you to chain more than two (baring certain +Card combos).

I would love feedback on either card.
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chwhite

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2011, 04:04:18 am »
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I have never really thought about asking for feedback on cards I have made up since... well, I made them up.  Here are my two favorite cards I play with that I've tried hard to balance.

A Victory card: Ancient Tomb -- Cost: $4

Worth 1 Victory Point per Curse you have.

This basically turns Curses into something you wouldn't mind having, to something you would actually buy.  It also really changes how powerful some attack cards like Witch are.  It seems to work when I play with my friends, but I haven't had the opportunity to try it with better players.

My second card:

An Action - Attack card: Spite -- Cost: $4

+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.  If you do, each other player discards one card.

It's very slow as far as trashing goes, but I wanted to combine trashing and attacking.  It started out without the +1 Action, but it seemed too weak like that and no one really wanted it.  The fact you have to trash a card to trigger that attack prevents the +1 Action from allowing you to chain more than two (baring certain +Card combos).

I would love feedback on either card.

The one suggestion I'd make is that Spite should only hit players with a certain number of cards in their hand- specifically, they can't go below 3 cards.  This would put it in line with Militia, Ghost Ship, etc. and prevent degenerate situations in multiplayer.
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grep

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2011, 04:06:51 am »
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What about a supply-depletion idea:

Genocide
$5
Trash a card from your hand. Gain 4 cards of the same type and immediately trash them.

I see several uses for this card:
  • Helper for gardens and cities
  • Fast game terminator (while the others are polishing their engines, catch 3-4 provinces and genocide the rest)
  • A version of Embargo against Minions and other cards that heavily synergize with themselves
  • Cure for Curse attacks (especially in 2-player games)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 04:18:08 am by grep »
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grep

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2011, 04:43:26 am »
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Terracotta Warrior
$6
Action/Victory
Trash an Attack card. If you do, gain a Terracotta Warrior.
Worth 1VP for each Terracotta Warrior in your deck.

It's a variation of Duke/Duchy with a taste of Remodel. Are you ready to trash your Goons/Pirate Ships to acquire the victorious terracotta army?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 08:46:30 am »
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Terracotta Warrior
$6
Action/Victory
Trash an Attack card. If you do, gain a Terracotta Warrior.
Worth 1VP for each Terracotta Warrior in your deck.

It's a variation of Duke/Duchy with a taste of Remodel. Are you ready to trash your Goons/Pirate Ships to acquire the victorious terracotta army?
Massively overpowered. It's not that hard to get to $6, and if you can get 5 of these, it's better than 4 provinces...

Deadlock39

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 10:45:20 am »
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Terracotta Warrior
$6
Action/Victory
Trash an Attack card. If you do, gain a Terracotta Warrior.
Worth 1VP for each Terracotta Warrior in your deck.

It's a variation of Duke/Duchy with a taste of Remodel. Are you ready to trash your Goons/Pirate Ships to acquire the victorious terracotta army?
Massively overpowered. It's not that hard to get to $6, and if you can get 5 of these, it's better than 4 provinces...

Perhaps if it could be worded in such a way that you could only buy one of them from the supply, but could only obtain additional ones by gaining them with the action.   I think this would be pretty hard to actually squeeze into the rules, and the card text would be crazy.  "You can't buy this if you have any Warriors in play."  "When you buy this card, reveal your hand, if you have any warriors in it, trash this card."  Then you would have to reveal and set aside your entire deck to search for warriors too, so buying your first one would have a free chancellor effect too.  It would probably be better to just play with the house rule of being honest and following the "buy only one" rule instead of forcing actual verification.

guided

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 10:53:23 am »
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In lieu of presenting any actual cards, let me preemptively put the kibosh on two bad card ideas that always sprout up like weeds:

1. Reaction cards whose sole non-reaction effect "+1 Card +1 Action"
2. Reactions to attacks that directly harm the attacker in any way

Now, carry on ;)
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guided

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 10:55:38 am »
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My best card ideas back in the day were all Treasure cards that did other stuff besides give you money, but they were all very simple effects (e.g. +$1 +1 buy, or +2 cards, or whatever) that got thoroughly shown up when Prosperity came out.

One very thoroughly broken card was "Cache", a treasure card with no effect other than "+3 cards" that I initially costed at $4. Turns out it's massively overpowered and boring even at $5, the ultimate in brainless big money.

Oddly enough, I had a trashing treasure called "Loan", something like "+$2. Trash a card from your hand." for $4 cost.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 10:59:21 am by guided »
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Glooble

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 12:28:20 pm »
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I always thought some kind of Shapeshifter or Master of Disguise card would be interesting - basically a card that, when you play it, can impersonate any cheap card in the supply. Maybe have it cost six and mimic any card costing up to four? I just think it could make for some interesting decks. I'm not sure if it should only work for action cards or if it could be a treasure as well. Making it usable as a reaction would probably be broken.
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Axe Knight

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 02:24:16 pm »
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While we're on the topic, how does one print these cards?  I was thinking of using custom labels and adhering them, but that may make those particular cards heavier.  Does anyone have an any experience using their home printer to print directly to the cards? 
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guided

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 03:11:58 pm »
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While we're on the topic, how does one print these cards?  I was thinking of using custom labels and adhering them, but that may make those particular cards heavier.  Does anyone have an any experience using their home printer to print directly to the cards?

Use a pile of blanks to stand in for the card. If you want to test multiple cards at the same time, use multiple piles of blanks and mark them differently. One pile could say "A" and the other "B" for example.

If you have finalized card ideas that you really want to print up, I've heard of people using Artscow: http://www.artscow.com/
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2011, 03:18:56 pm »
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I've not made any cards yet (and probably won't), but if I did I'd get 10 little bits of paper, scribble the card details on them and slip them into the front of 10 sleeved cards (any cards that are not otherwise in the set).

Of course, this doesn't work if you don't sleeve your cards.
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Blaeu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2011, 05:25:24 pm »
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The one suggestion I'd make is that Spite should only hit players with a certain number of cards in their hand- specifically, they can't go below 3 cards.  This would put it in line with Militia, Ghost Ship, etc. and prevent degenerate situations in multiplayer.

I thought about this, but I decided to leave it off as I do not believe it is necessary.  In a two player game you practically have nothing to worry about as it is very difficult for one player to play this attack more than twice.  As such, we look at 3P and 4P games.  It has the best chance of happening in a 4P game since each player only has to play it once.  However, for this to happen, the third player must have discarded two cards and decided it was best to keep this attack and one card to trash over anything else.  I don't think trashing a single card is worth giving up your buy.  Sure, a player could play it twice, but you run into the same problem because the person to play the third attack will only have three cards in hand.  The second or third player could get hit, and then play it twice themselves, but that has never happened to me in play tests.

IMO, this card balances itself.  Unlike Torturer, which can easily be played more than once in a 4P game before your turn comes back around, this card requires that you trash a card, which becomes harder and harder to do if you are being forced to discard a card as you are being attacked by it.

Thinking about it now, I guess it could be devastating if you combine it with Laboratory as you'll have the cards needed to play all of your Spites, however, this is a very bad strategy since after that, you will have a bunch of dead cards since you will no longer want to trash anything and therefore the attack fails.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2011, 05:43:19 pm »
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Thinking about it now, I guess it could be devastating if you combine it with Laboratory as you'll have the cards needed to play all of your Spites, however, this is a very bad strategy since after that, you will have a bunch of dead cards since you will no longer want to trash anything and therefore the attack fails.
So what you really want to play it in is a deck with lots of Worker's Villages/Markets/whatever, so that you can buy lots of Copper and trash it with the Spite.
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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2011, 05:53:48 pm »
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While we're on the topic, how does one print these cards?  I was thinking of using custom labels and adhering them, but that may make those particular cards heavier.  Does anyone have an any experience using their home printer to print directly to the cards?

Someone on BBG shared their experience in a long running gaming group where the winners could create a new card that would be added to the mix.  They suggested using a card that's functionally similar to save brain-space/card stock, and having a reference on the board visible to all players.  So, if you created, Deadly Carnivorous Village ($4p, +1 card, +2 action, each opponent gains a curse), you'd put familiar on the board in its place.

Actually, that's a pretty stupid example given that DCV and familiar don't have the same cost, but hopefully you get the gist.
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Blaeu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2011, 06:02:11 pm »
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Thinking about it now, I guess it could be devastating if you combine it with Laboratory as you'll have the cards needed to play all of your Spites, however, this is a very bad strategy since after that, you will have a bunch of dead cards since you will no longer want to trash anything and therefore the attack fails.
So what you really want to play it in is a deck with lots of Worker's Villages/Markets/whatever, so that you can buy lots of Copper and trash it with the Spite.

You could, but how would you win the game like that?  I would think you deck would become so bogged down with your Villages and Coppers that you wouldn't get to your Spites as often as you would like.  Sure, the extra buys from Worker's Village and Market would help you gain coppers, but they don't help you draw the cards you need to be able to play Spite more than twice.  You would have to set up a pretty complicated engine to abuse this card and the sole purpose would be to harm other player's hands, as it would provide very little benefit to you.

I mean, if this is a problem I'm more than happy to add a clause that states it effects players with more than three cards in their hand.  I'm not against that as much as I have never found it necessary and liked the idea that it could occasionally really mess someone up.

I have found that the best use for it is to buy one or two with the intent of trashing cards from your hand.  You know it is a very slow way of trashing cards, but you slow your opponent down as you do trash, so it evens out.
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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2011, 03:18:00 am »
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I had an idea similar to the Shapeshifter above.


Illusion
$4 (?)
Choose one of the following:
- Name a card. While Illusion is in play, this card behaves like a 0* copper.
- Name a card. While Illusion is in play, this card behaves like a 0* estate.
- Name a card. While Illusion is in play, this card behaves like a 0* action card (that does nothing when you play it)
So that you can trash your estates/curses with mine/mint, or make your scrying pool more efficient. The 0* price is so you cannot use this to buy provinces at the price of a copper.
(maybe you should change the 0* copper to a 0*, 0$ treasure card, and the 0* estate to a 0*, 0 VP victory card, but I wanted to be able to play Baron or Moneylender with this card)
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play2draw

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2011, 03:34:02 am »
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This is the only variant I've seen that has caught my eye:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/629120/fan-mod-a-change-of-seasons-for-dominion.

I like this one because it's something that adds a whole new element to any game. I haven't played it yet, but maybe I can convince my gaming group to try it once we get bored with Cornucopia.
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