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Author Topic: Make up your own card?  (Read 30835 times)

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chwhite

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2011, 08:27:40 pm »
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How about a duration card?

Name: Inflation
Cost: $5
Type: Action-Duration

Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1

While this is in play, all cards (including cards in players’ hands) cost $1 more per Action card in play (counting this).

----
Since I have never played with a duration card that has such an impact on other players, I'm not really sure how to balance the cost of the card with the effect.  I wanted it to be at least $5 since I don't want someone to be able to open with this assuming a 4/3 split (83.3% chance).  I was thinking of pricing it at $6, but if I did I would want to increase the +coin amount, at least on the turn it is played.

Thoughts?
Not good. Most of the time it's going to be horrible, since it hits you for two turns but only hits them for one. And when it is good (when you can mass bridge or forge), it's either unnecessary or insanely broken.

I was actually thinking about Duration attacks (the lack of one seems like a pretty big hole in Dominion's design space), and I came up with something remarkably similar, basically a Bridge with teeth, but hopefully without (as much of) the problem WanderingWinder pointed out.


TARIFFS (Or maybe "Customs House", or "Mercantilism", you get the idea)
Action-Attack-Duration
$5?  $6?  I'm not sure.

Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1, +1 Buy
While this is in play, all cards cost $1 less for you and $1 more for everyone else, to a minimum of $0 and a maximum of $11.

Probably need to fiddle with the values- I was thinking maybe cost it $5 and don't give the $1 each turn.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 08:33:20 pm by chwhite »
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ackack

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2011, 08:54:19 am »
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The original values seem ridiculously strong. A Duration-ed Bridge without the attack is probably already a pretty overpowering card; among other things, I'd think that it would make a lot more types of multi-Bridge strategies viable. Adding the attack is just over the top.

Getting rid of the buys makes this into an attacking Merchant Ship that, if you can get buys elsewhere, gets even stronger. I think with no +buy this is probably a 6. Without the +1, this is a slightly weaker Merchant Ship on average that occasionally blows up, plus it has an attack. Still seems like a 6 to me.
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ackack

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2011, 09:14:33 am »
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How about this for a duration attack?

Moratorium
Action/Duration
Cost: $5

+$2. When you first play this card, name a card. While this card is in play, the named card cannot be played.

---

I elected not to make it formally an Attack because Reactions feel like they'd be weird with this, but that would be negotiable obviously. This seems like a pretty mean card, but because it affects the player for two turns and everybody else for one, I think that might be okay. The "first play" is in there to make this not a total game-wrecker if KC is out.

added: This would certainly have potential to shut down certain types of deck near entirely, and maybe in a multi-player game would lead to total paralysis. It is, however, also a counter to itself, so I think that would be moderated somewhat.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 09:18:27 am by ackack »
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grep

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2011, 09:59:29 am »
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Phoenix
Action/Victory
$4
Choose one: +1 Action/+1 Card, or trash this and another card from your hand.
1VP
When trashed, gain another Phoenix.

A variant of Great Hall that synergizes with remake/upgrade/trash for benefit, and opposes Swindler/Saboteur and other trashers. A limited trashing ability makes it useful if there is no other trashers available.

Very strange interaction with Watchtower allows to empty the Phoenix supply in one turn.

UPD: thanks to Thisisnotasmile, it was mistakenly written "Action/Treasure"
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 10:48:21 am by grep »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2011, 10:01:31 am »
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I assume you mean Action/Victory.
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Death to Sea Hags

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2011, 10:48:59 am »
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How about this for a duration attack?

Moratorium
Action/Duration
Cost: $5

+$2. When you first play this card, name a card. While this card is in play, the named card cannot be played.

---

I elected not to make it formally an Attack because Reactions feel like they'd be weird with this, but that would be negotiable obviously. This seems like a pretty mean card, but because it affects the player for two turns and everybody else for one, I think that might be okay. The "first play" is in there to make this not a total game-wrecker if KC is out.

added: This would certainly have potential to shut down certain types of deck near entirely, and maybe in a multi-player game would lead to total paralysis. It is, however, also a counter to itself, so I think that would be moderated somewhat.

Problem: someone plays two in a turn.  First one, "something awesome", followed by "Moratorium".  It only affects your NEXT turn, because it's your last action.
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ackack

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2011, 12:01:21 pm »
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Problem: someone plays two in a turn.  First one, "something awesome", followed by "Moratorium".  It only affects your NEXT turn, because it's your last action.

It's true that applies to actions. But a Moratorium on Platinum would affect you for two turns, for example. (Okay, unless you have Black Market.)
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krawhitham

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2011, 10:49:35 pm »
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Here's a simple one...

Card Name: Beggar
Type: Action
Cost: 2
+1 Coin, +1 Buy
You may gain any card in the trash.

This is a fairly meaningless card, unless there's a trash-for-benefit card in the game, in which case it could be rather powerful.


If you had just swindled or saboteured someone there could be some delicious cards in the trash.

It could also be coupled with Ambassador to replenish the curse piles, or any pile for that matter to reduce the power of a City.
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krawhitham

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2011, 11:00:01 pm »
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I'd say the 2 different types of cards that I believe could be incorporated into Dominion are:

1) Cards that cost more than 1 action to play. You could have cards that cost 2 actions to play or a +buy. The difficulty to play these cards could be balanced out by a low cost to buy them. I'd see them as consipirator type cards; you need chains of cards before you can activate them.

2) Cards that inflict some sort of penalty on the user, perhaps some kind of supernatural pact? The penatlies could either be gaining curses or in terms of harming your next turn (like the opposite of tactician).
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Fuu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2011, 11:24:27 pm »
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I was thinking about a Chapel variant called Cathedral:

Action, Costs 4
+2 cards
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.

The reasoning was:
1) Everyone can buy Chapel with their weaker starting hand. Costing 4, everyone can buy Cathedral with their better starting hand.
2) You could say that with Chapel you'd prefer to start 5/2. This card plays similarly but you'd prefer 4/3.

If it allowed you to trash up to four cards like Chapel it might be too powerful. Maybe it's still too powerful because of +2 cards also helping you cycle as well as giving you a better selection of trashing options. The numbers could be tweaked but the idea is it's like a Chapel that also helps you clear on-deck attacks like Sea Hag.
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Elyv

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2011, 03:06:17 am »
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That card is very, very good. I think it's probably better than chapel.

Actually, compare it to witch. Witch draws you two cards and puts one bad card in the opponent's deck; this draws 2 cards and takes 3 bad cards out of yours. Oh, and it costs 1 less.

It's definitely a neat concept, though; I like the idea of a trasher which draws cards first.
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Blaeu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2011, 03:09:56 am »
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Hmm... I have three tonight, although two are similar ideas.

Name: Premonition
Type: Action
Cost: $5

+5 Cards
Put 5 cards from your hand on top of your deck in any order.

This card basically allows you to create your next hand, or pull just enough treasure for what you need now and leave the rest behind.  It used to have +Action, but it was much too strong when you were able to pull action cards from those five and use them.  It still can happen with a Village like card, but it doesn't result in many useful action chains.
----

Name: Blockade
Type: Action-Duration
Cost: $5

Place Blockade face up on any Supply pile.  While Blockade is in play, no player my purchase a card from the chosen Supply pile.

----

Name: Tariff
Type: Action
Cost: $6

Trash this card.  Put a Tariff token on top of a Supply pile.  When a player buys a card, that card costs +$1 per Tariff token on that pile.

This card plays just like Embargo but increases cost instead of forcing a Curse upon someone.  Something tells me Donald thought of this but threw it out because all it does is slow down the game.  Nevertheless, I wanted to gets opinions on it, especially because I priced it at $6.  Would you buy this over a Gold to slow down the purchase of another card?
----

As always, any feedback is appreciated.
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chwhite

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2011, 03:16:18 am »
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That card is very, very good. I think it's probably better than chapel.

Actually, compare it to witch. Witch draws you two cards and puts one bad card in the opponent's deck; this draws 2 cards and takes 3 bad cards out of yours. Oh, and it costs 1 less.

It's definitely a neat concept, though; I like the idea of a trasher which draws cards first.

We already have one.  It's called Masquerade, and it's one of the best cards in the game.  This would be even better than that.
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Death to Sea Hags

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2011, 12:39:16 pm »
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That card is very, very good. I think it's probably better than chapel.

Actually, compare it to witch. Witch draws you two cards and puts one bad card in the opponent's deck; this draws 2 cards and takes 3 bad cards out of yours. Oh, and it costs 1 less.

It's definitely a neat concept, though; I like the idea of a trasher which draws cards first.

We already have one.  It's called Masquerade, and it's one of the best cards in the game.  This would be even better than that.

This.  Compare this to Masq:
1.  Trashes three times faster.  HUGE.
2.  Unlike Masq, this wording makes the trashing totally optional - at least with Masq, you MUST pass a card, so it gets riskier to play.
3.  Chapel is already under-priced at $2, for game-balance reasons.  As such, you should NOT use it to benchmark prices for new cards.[/li][/list]

However, Donald X. has said that he experimented with a 3-trash Chapel, and it was NOT as good by far: it was too slow.  The 4x-trash Chapel gets rid of the ten start cards in one less play of the card, and makes those shuffles come faster.  Still, this card feels totally rockin' at $5.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2011, 01:14:37 pm »
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Yes, I think this would be a quite good $5, but maybe not broken there. More interesting on a card like this, I find, is FORCED trashing.

rinkworks

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2011, 01:21:24 pm »
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Premonition is not very different from my Architect card in the first post of this thread.  It's more powerful, but I think some of the interest of Architect comes from not being able to *completely* architect your next turn, only a good chunk of it.  As such, yours might have a little less AP, but I suspect that's a drawback of both of them.  I think the idea is interesting enough that it's worth it.

Tariff, as you say, sounds like a card that slows the game down.  If you Tariff up the Provinces, you still want to buy them -- you just have to rev up your engine, which may already be weighted down by previously-purchased Provinces.  I suppose if you want to go for a three-pile ending, it would be a good move, or if you have an engine that consistently generates more income than your opponent's, so you're overpaying anyway.  At first I was thinking this was too close to Embargo to be interesting, but especially that last situation would make it quite different:  embargo always affects players equally, but this card might not.  If you have $8, you can't buy a tariffed Province at all, while another player who comes up with $9 can.  Still, I'd have to try it out in a few games before I could judge whether it's interesting in practice.  (Oh, another comment:  I have no idea why you priced it at $6 when Embargo is $2.  Pretty sure I'd never buy it at $6, but maybe I'm not foreseeing some great use of it.)

Blockade, to me, is the most interesting card of the three.  Its effect is temporary, which distinguishes it from Embargo, and it opens up a new strategical consideration.  A lot has been written here about the importance of knowing where your own cards are, but how about knowing where your opponent's cards are?  If you know, for example, that your opponent's deck is almost gone and he hasn't played his Platinum yet, it might be a really good time to blockade the Colonies.  On the other hand, if you suspect your opponent has played out all his good cards this time through the deck, maybe blockade a lower-value Victory card instead, gambling that he won't be able to afford Colonies.

The strategical approach is not that different from playing with Contraband, the difference there being that (barring some weird combo like Masquerading/Swindling a Contraband into an opponent's Venture-heavy deck), an opponent can only make himself vulnerable to Contraband by his own hand, whereas Blockade is an attack you can initiate yourself.

It's possible that, in practice, Blockade won't play as interestingly as it does in theory.  Especially since I suspect that it would be a very situational card.  (Note:  These things are true of Embargo, too.)  But I certainly think it's worth experimenting with.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 01:24:52 pm by rinkworks »
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Blaeu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2011, 02:29:08 pm »
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Premonition is not very different from my Architect card in the first post of this thread.  It's more powerful, but I think some of the interest of Architect comes from not being able to *completely* architect your next turn, only a good chunk of it.  As such, yours might have a little less AP, but I suspect that's a drawback of both of them.  I think the idea is interesting enough that it's worth it.

I haven't read through this entire thread in a while, I should probably do that before posting ideas so it isn't the same as another.  Sorry about that.  ;)

Quote
Tariff, as you say, sounds like a card that slows the game down.  If you Tariff up the Provinces, you still want to buy them -- you just have to rev up your engine, which may already be weighted down by previously-purchased Provinces.  I suppose if you want to go for a three-pile ending, it would be a good move, or if you have an engine that consistently generates more income than your opponent's, so you're overpaying anyway.  At first I was thinking this was too close to Embargo to be interesting, but especially that last situation would make it quite different:  embargo always affects players equally, but this card might not.  If you have $8, you can't buy a tariffed Province at all, while another player who comes up with $9 can.  Still, I'd have to try it out in a few games before I could judge whether it's interesting in practice.  (Oh, another comment:  I have no idea why you priced it at $6 when Embargo is $2.  Pretty sure I'd never buy it at $6, but maybe I'm not foreseeing some great use of it.)

With Embargo, you can have a four player game where all four people buy it on their first two turns and four could end up on Province and four end up on Duchy (not that this would actually happen, but it could).  This would make a Duchy result in a net -1 VP and really slow down your deck.  However, curse cards do run out and although the curses can deter one from wanting to buy something, it doesn't prevent them from doing so.

With Tariff priced at $2/$3, the same could happen, except there is no duration limit on how long something will cost more.  Plus, with Provinces now at $12 and a Duchy at $9, it doesn't just deter someone from buying it, it actually prevents them.  Now, I like the idea of it being a "physical" hurtle to overcome rather than a choice to be made (is it worth gaining x amount of curses?), however, I think being able to permanently increase the cost of cards that soon in a game is too powerful (and lame).  I could price it at $5 if $6 seems too high, but I feel $4 is too low as I don't want anyone to be able to open with this card.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2011, 02:38:53 pm »
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You could make it where it gives you an option to put a token on OR remove a token (or two) to try to solve this problem.
You could also do a reverse thing, a card which permanently makes a pile cheaper.

HLennartz

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2011, 12:51:10 am »
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Moratorium
Action/Duration
Cost: $5
+$2. When you first play this card, name a card. While this card is in play, the named card cannot be played.


I've always loved a similar idea, but envisioned it more like this:

Inquisitor
Action - Attack
$4
Name a card other than Copper. Each opponent reveals their hand and discards all cards with that name.

I think the "no Copper" clause is needed to avoid ridiculous-early game situations. Could still be unfair in multiplayer...it might be good to have a clause limiting it's effect to players with more than 3 cards in hand, so a person sitting in a bad seat can't be stripped of both Gold and Silver or something like that.
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Blaeu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2011, 05:58:05 pm »
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Magic Mirror
Action-Reaction
Cost: $3

Draw two cards.  Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck in any order.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, the owner of the attack is affected by the attack as well.


I'm not really sure how to word that last part as it is a "new" feature.  However, I think the meaning gets across.  I've always wanted a more "aggressive" reaction card, but it needed to be balanced so that people would still want to play attack cards.  This, like most reaction cards, works better against some attacks compared to others.  Reflecting a Witch to give him a curse is nice, reflecting a Thief so he trashes his own treasure just to gain it back, not so much.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2011, 06:02:31 pm »
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I'm not really sure how to word that last part as it is a "new" feature.  However, I think the meaning gets across.  I've always wanted a more "aggressive" reaction card, but it needed to be balanced so that people would still want to play attack cards.  This, like most reaction cards, works better against some attacks compared to others.  Reflecting a Witch to give him a curse is nice, reflecting a Thief so he trashes his own treasure just to gain it back, not so much.
Donald X's notes on why this type of Reaction is not a good idea.
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Blaeu

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2011, 06:16:36 pm »
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I'm not really sure how to word that last part as it is a "new" feature.  However, I think the meaning gets across.  I've always wanted a more "aggressive" reaction card, but it needed to be balanced so that people would still want to play attack cards.  This, like most reaction cards, works better against some attacks compared to others.  Reflecting a Witch to give him a curse is nice, reflecting a Thief so he trashes his own treasure just to gain it back, not so much.
Donald X's notes on why this type of Reaction is not a good idea.

I've read that, but I think his example doesn't take into account how a majority of attacks also give a direct benefit to the user.  Witch gives everyone a curse but it also allows the user to draw two cards.  Militia causes everyone to discard down to three, but it still gives the user $2.

Having the negative part of an attack effect the user as well is not going to results in the scenario that Donald was describing.  It also does not prevent the user of "Magic Mirror" from being hit by the attack.  For example, in the case of Witch all four players would gain a curse, but the owner of Witch still gets to draw two cards so the attack still gives him some sort of benefit.

Donald's article also seems to be talking about a reaction card that prevents the attack and reflects it.  Although already stated, do not forget that the user of Magic Mirror still gets hit by the attack, so it is not nearly as strong as the card in his example.
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grep

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2011, 04:26:44 am »
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Another Embargo-like card:

Counterfeit
$3
Action
Put this card on top of one of supply piles. When a player is going to gain a card from a supply pile, he gains the top card from the corresponding pile. You may buy a Counterfeit for its nominal price even if you get it from another pile.

For example, if there is a Counterfeit on top of the Province pile, you have to spend $3 and a buy before you'll be able to buy a province. On the other side, you can put a Counterfeit on the Curse pile to prevent yourself from being cursed. The interaction with Swindler is especially nasty (put a Counterfeit to a supply pile, and then replace an opponent's card with it).
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Tiger

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2011, 02:26:21 pm »
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Donald's article also seems to be talking about a reaction card that prevents the attack and reflects it.  Although already stated, do not forget that the user of Magic Mirror still gets hit by the attack, so it is not nearly as strong as the card in his example.

What he's talking about applies for any reaction cards that in any way has a detrimental effect on the attacking player. Especially in a two player game, it doesn't matter what bad effect the attacker suffers, whether it's discarding a card or being affected by the same attack himself - if it's bad enough, he'll be better off if he hadn't played the attack card at all. It's a question of scale, and there are few bad effects that, when potentially piled up from revealing the same reaction card twice/revealing more than one copy/every other player revealing one copy each, aren't bed enough to make you regret that you attacked. Being hit by the same attack once, with the right wording, is unstackable and might work.
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Michaelf7777777

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Re: Make up your own card?
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2011, 04:27:34 pm »
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I've been having a new idea of using historical Royal Houses with historical Royal Favourites coming along with the Royal House Card although the mechanism for gaining a Royal House Card is slightly more painful.

Anyway the gaining mechanism is:
Royal Bloodline
Action
Cost 5
+1 Action
Reveal and discard two golds or a gold and a silver or three silvers from your hand and gain a Royal House with additional favourite putting them on top of your deck. If no-one else reveals and discards a gold from their hand, +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin and +1 Buy

Additional Setup: Shuffle the Royal Houses and create an available supply of Royal Houses of 2 times the number of players in the game

An example of a Royal House with its Favourite

Hapsburg
Royal House
Action - Duration
+2 Actions
Either
Now and at the start of your next turn gain a Victory Card costing six or less putting it in your hand
OR
Place 1-3 Action Cards from your hand on this card. Play all actions in any order you like at the start of your next turn

Ludwig von Beethoven
Favourite of the Hapsburg House
Action
+3 Coins
+2 Buys
All Action Cards cost one less while this card is in play.
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