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[Karhumies]

I have played quite a few casual Dominion games over the years. Finally, I think it is time for me to purchase my own copy of the game. Therefore, I need to select which expansions I would like to purchase. Currently, I have enough credits at my FLGS account (gained from dumping a few kilograms of old M:tG cards) for 3 large expansions + base cards or small expansion.

Personal & playgroup background:
I am CCG veteran, so even complex card interactions are not a problem to me, neither to my usual playgroup. However, from time to time I will be playing with players new to Dominion (= alternative playgroup), so I wish the sets I pick have also some "vanilla capability" (to lessen walls of text and AP for first time players by e.g. fixing 6-7 simple kingdom cards, then grabbing the rest more randomly to make things a bit interesting) for introducing new players to the game. From time to time, I will be playing H2H with my girlfriend, who does not like direct attacks. But to reduce that with 3-4 expansions, I believe the veto rule will be okay-ish even by itself.

I - and especially my playgroup - have played enough of the Dominion base set to get bored of it. Seaside has not seen as much play, but one of my friends already has it available, so I do not consider it a "must buy" since we can just combine our purchases when we play together, making it a lower priority. Some players in my playgroup dislike Alchemy a lot, because one of the guys bought it as the only expansion to combine with Intrigue...a combination which sucked and "ruined" Alchemy for many of us.

Our playgroup does not have any experience of expansions released after Alchemy (= Prosperity, Hinterlands, Cornucopia and Dark Ages), making them a higher priority on my purchase list. At the time of writing, Dark Ages is not yet available in the FLGS where I have the in-store credits.


Initial thoughts:
I am considering a mix of Base cards (NOT base set) + Prosperity + Hinterlands + Intrigue/Seaside.

Reasoning:
- Platinum + Colonies will be a whole new world of experience for even the most veteran Dominion players in my playgroup, making it a top priority.
- Hinterlands is the latest large expansion available in my FLGS full of new and mysterious cards for our playgroup. Making it a second-from-top priority.
- Intrigue has the "vanilla element", including a touch a familiarity for some Dominion players in my playgroup used to play sets until Alchemy came out (and when they quite sadly lost interest in future Dominion expansions as a consequence). Making introducing the newer sets simpler to the veterans by including some familiar Intrigue interactions into the mix.
- Base cards + Intrigue allows for 5 players, or 2 playgroups simultaneously, without purchasing the Dominion base set "everyone" seems to be quite bored with already. Not a top priority, since someone is bound to bring their base set along regardless for the second bunch of basic cards.
- Base cards + Prosperity + Intrigue allows for 2 playgroups to be playing with Platinum and Colonies simultaneously. Not a top priority, but a nice bonus nevertheless.
- Intrigue includes the 5-6 players rules in print form. The base set and base cards do not.
- The four above points are the main reasons why I consider purchasing Intrigue over Seaside as "the third set".

Other expansion alternatives:
"All new cards": Base cards + Prosperity + Hinterlands + Cornucopia -seems like the learning curve would be quite steep for everyone involved, especially the newbies, because there is little to no "vanilla factor".

"Moar cards": Prosperity + Cornucopia + Hinterlands + Intrigue -skipping the Base cards in favor of Cornucopia means more Kingdom cards. Someone is bound to bring their copy of base set in case we need the basic cards for the second playgroup, anyhow. No Platinum + Colonies for the second group, but then again at least one of the two simultaneous groups is bound to be newbie-heavy, anyhow, which would favor a more basic game experience (e.g. the base set + Intrigue).

...and of course, even if I am about to purchase 3-4 expansions with my store credit at once, that does not mean I have to introduce all of the new card sets simultaneously to the play group.

Comments or suggestions?

EDIT: Please also suggest some sample 10-card kingdom combinations compiled from the suggested sets for
a) players completely new to the game ("vanilla factor") - without Platinum + Colonies
b) a slightly more advanced compilation to introduce Platinum + Colonies mechanics to players who have played Dominion (especially Base set/Intrigue/Seaside) a few times already
c) players familiar with Intrigue but new to any expansion released after Alchemy, preferably containing some new interactions with old cards, with or without Platinum + Colonies

[Insomniac]

You used to play MTG so I highly recommend Dark Ages. Hinterlands and Seaside.

Cornucopia is amazing for a small set but has tournament which is often used as a runaway first player problem

[brokoli]

Cornucopia, indispensable.

I would personally go for Base cards + Hinterlands + Cornucopia + Seaside/Dark ages if you are not afraid of complexity. I'm not a huge fan of prosperity (too many unbalanced cards) and don't think Plat/Colony change the game so much.

If you want more "vanilla cards", take the base set instead of base cards ...

[Schneau]

It seems like many people here are big fans of Seaside, and I am as well. Durations are fun and not to complicated. I'm also a big fan of Prosperity, and in my first dozen or so games of Dark Ages it is my favorite expansion yet. So, I would recommend those three, plus maybe Intrigue or Dominion. I know Dominion is a bit vanilla, but those cards are sometimes nice when paired with wall-of-text cards from other expansions, so I'd recommend it over Intrigue, which I'm not as much of a fan of. Base cards + Cornucopia is an interesting alternative - I find Cornucopia to have some great fun cards (Hamlet, Menagerie, Remake, Horn of Plenty), some cards I'm not a fan of (Tournament, Fortune Teller, Harvest), and the rest pretty good.

[Captain_Frisk]

Prosperity > Seaside > Intrigue > Cornucopia > Hinterlands > Base Cards > Eye Bleach > Ascension > Resident Evil: TDBG > Alchemy

[Karhumies]

Thanks for the replies!

You used to play MTG so I highly recommend Dark Ages. Hinterlands and Seaside.

Cornucopia is amazing for a small set but has tournament which is often used as a runaway first player problem

...and before MtG it was V:tES, and before that WoW TCG, and before that LotR TCG (movie version), and before that Yu-Gi-Oh!, and before that Pokémon...13 years of different CCGs. In the past competitive tournament level, but nowadays more casual due to personal time constraints. While card interactions do not scare me personally, I want to avoid AP from potential new members to my playgroup who are more used to vanilla Dominion and Carcassonne and 7 Wonders, much less used to complex CCGs and reading walls of text before starting a game. Making some kind of a intro kingdom setup a necessity.

Also, is Tournament such a problematic card without introducing Colonies and Platinum?

If you want more "vanilla cards", take the base set instead of base cards ...

I can pretty much borrow the base set if I want that much vanilla cards. Seaside is also borrowable, although less frequently available to us since more of my friends have bought the base set only, and only one person has the Seasides expansion.


Prosperity seems to get mixed reviews. For me, that is a clear indication that I should skip that for now, and try to playtest it somewhere instead of making a blind purchase.


Since many of you have recommended Cornucopia and Dark Ages, I am now considering:
A) Base cards (cost: small) + Hinterlands (large) + Seaside (large), borrow base set for the vanilla when new players are present, and leave the remaining store credits waiting for the Dark Ages (large) to be released in my country.

B) Intrigue (large) + Cornucopia (small) + Hinterlands (large), borrow base set for the vanilla when new players are present, and leave the remaining store credits waiting for the Dark Ages (large) to be released in my country.

[Insomniac]

Also, is Tournament such a problematic card without introducing Colonies and Platinum?

Tournament is LESS of a problem with plat/colony because you can turn the game around on colonies even if you lose the prize/tourney war

[Karhumies]

Would these kingdom card combinations be sensible for beginners? I have not played enough Dominion to judge whether there is something overpowered in there; I was more looking at vanilla factor vs. wall of text and relative simplicity of use from a beginner perspective. Also, tried to include cards from different types and costs into the mix, without including too many attack cards. I feel that curse + trash interactions may be a bit too much for first game...which I why I ended up with Margrave. Also, I would rather make the new players realize first that thrash can be used to upgrade stuff rather than minimize deck size. Although Margrave should indirectly teach the diminishing value of coppers as well (smaller hand size).

Seaside + Hinterlands intro set:
2 Lighthouse - defense, continuous
3 Fishing Village - +actions, continuous, vanilla
5 Bazaar - +actions, vanilla
5 Merchant Ship - continuous, vanilla
------------------
2 Duchess - when gain
3 Oasis - vanilla
4 Nomad Camp  - +buy, vanilla
4 Spice Merchant - trash
5 Margrave -attack, +buy
6 Border Village - when gain, +actions, Duchy + duchess

Intrigue + Cornucopia + Hinterlands intro set:
2 Pawn - light choices
3 Swindler - attack
4 Mining Village - vanilla, +action
5 Upgrade - trash
6 Nobles - alternative VP, vanilla
------------------
4 Horse Traders - reaction, +buy
------------------
3 Oasis - vanilla
4 Nomad Camp - when gain, vanilla, +buy
5 Margrave - attack, +buy
6 Border Village - when gain, +actions

[RichardNixon]

Prosperity seems to get mixed reviews. For me, that is a clear indication that I should skip that for now, and try to playtest it somewhere instead of making a blind purchase.

If you just mean this thread, that's a pretty small sample size. Prosperity is the only one I own and my easy favorite (though I haven't tried dark ages). Platinum/Colony, King's Court, and Goons are some of the most game-warping cards in dominion without just obnoxiously fighting for a 6/4 split (i.e., I really hate Minion and Fool's Gold), which in a practical sense means more variety. A game with these cards will be much different from games without them, and that's why you're buying an expansion, right?

For what it's worth, Prosperity also has the highest rating on Board Game Geek, so I'm not just the lone crazy person. Dark Ages is right on its heels and might overtake it? But those two are rated head and shoulders above the others.

[Powerman]

Prosperity seems to get mixed reviews. For me, that is a clear indication that I should skip that for now, and try to playtest it somewhere instead of making a blind purchase.


Since many of you have recommended Cornucopia and Dark Ages, I am now considering:
A) Base cards (cost: small) + Hinterlands (large) + Seaside (large), borrow base set for the vanilla when new players are present, and leave the remaining store credits waiting for the Dark Ages (large) to be released in my country.

B) Intrigue (large) + Cornucopia (small) + Hinterlands (large), borrow base set for the vanilla when new players are present, and leave the remaining store credits waiting for the Dark Ages (large) to be released in my country.

From what I can tell, Prosperity is far and away the most highly reviewed set of Dominion.

To me, the order to buy them should be Base Dominion > Prosperity > Seaside > Hinterlands > Cornucopia > Dark Ages > Intrigue > Alchemy.  Although Base Dominion has some boring cards, it also has some of the most important cards in the game (Witch, Chapel, Gardens, etc.).

[Karhumies]

If you just mean this thread, that's a pretty small sample size.

What I meant to say is that a) the potentially longer game length from Platinum + Colonies, and b) the increased focus on engine-building (which tends to reward more experienced players) tend to have received mixed reviews depending on the playgroup. Since I am unsure of my playgroups' response, and relatively frequently play in mixed groups, I am somewhat unsure about this expansion until I get to try it somewhere. But I guess that is true about all Dominion sets and board games in general: hands-on experience is king.

[RichardNixon]

If you just mean this thread, that's a pretty small sample size.

What I meant to say is that a) the potentially longer game length from Platinum + Colonies, and b) the increased focus on engine-building (which tends to reward more experienced players) tend to have received mixed reviews depending on the playgroup. Since I am unsure of my playgroups' response, I am somewhat unsure about this expansion until I get to try it somewhere.

Ahh, I see. One important counterpoint though - colony makes the game longer than province in a vacuum, but is by no means the most game-lengthening card. A game with sea hag and no trashing will be significantly longer than a game with colony, king's court, and no curses. Don't get me started on Ill-Gotten Gains.

[Karhumies]

From what I can tell, Prosperity is far and away the most highly reviewed set of Dominion.

...including Prosperity and excluding Intrigue would probably result in:

Base cards + Prosperity + Hinterlands (+ borrowed Base Dominion) + Seaside (which could be borrowed) / wait for Dark Ages

[Karhumies]

...including Prosperity and excluding Intrigue would probably result in:

Base Dominion (borrowed) + Prosperity + Hinterlands + Seaside (borrowed) / wait for Dark Ages

Dominion + Prosperity + Hinterlands sample newbie list:
2 Moat - reaction
3 Village - vanilla, +actions
4 Feast - vanilla
4 remodel - trash
5 market - vanilla
----------------------------
4 Monument - +VP
5 Contraband +buy, light choices
6 Grand Market - engine
----------------------------
3 Oracle - light attack
5 Margrave - attack

After browsing through card interactions for a while, I have to say that these 3 sets combined do increase the value and utility of the base set cards significantly. They become much less "bland" than they used to be on their own, and bring some vanilla into the mixture of more complex cards. Hmm. I might end up liking this 3 large set combo.

[Karhumies]

...although, budget-wise, 3 large + 1 small as complete purchases (no borrowing) would be more likely:

Base Dominion + Prosperity + Cornucopia + wait for Dark Ages

...where Cornucopia would be the set to bring in when playing together with more experienced Dominion players.

[Octo]

Yeah, you can often pick up Base dominion for only a few pounds (here in the UK) more than the Base Supply cards, so it's really worth keeping that set on your radar considering how many cards you get with it. Base can feel boring on its own, but it does come back to life when combine with the others sets, the directness of them can be a refreshing change of tempo.

[Grujah]

If you just mean this thread, that's a pretty small sample size.

What I meant to say is that a) the potentially longer game length from Platinum + Colonies, and b) the increased focus on engine-building (which tends to reward more experienced players) tend to have received mixed reviews depending on the playgroup. Since I am unsure of my playgroups' response, I am somewhat unsure about this expansion until I get to try it somewhere.

Ahh, I see. One important counterpoint though - colony makes the game longer than province in a vacuum, but is by no means the most game-lengthening card. A game with sea hag and no trashing will be significantly longer than a game with colony, king's court, and no curses. Don't get me started on Ill-Gotten Gains.

IMO, Intrigue is the "slowest" of the expansions. It has Torturer, Minion, Pawn, Secret Chamber, Swindler, Saboteur..

[Karhumies]

Yeah, you can often pick up Base dominion for only a few pounds (here in the UK) more than the Base Supply cards, so it's really worth keeping that set on your radar considering how many cards you get with it. Base can feel boring on its own, but it does come back to life when combine with the others sets, the directness of them can be a refreshing change of tempo.

I guess the problem is that my playgroup has played too much vanilla Dominion. This does not mean that the base set would be boring/bad (as some people I know seem to think by now); just that the base set is much more useful "in small doses", diluted by cards from a few expansions - rather than using it as a standalone set, or base + just a single expansion. Makes sense.

Also, the vanilla factor of Base set and Seaside were quite high compared to the latest expansions (e.g. continuous vanilla cards in Seaside), resulting quite often in vanilla-heavy kingdom stacks when playing with standalone Base set or Base + Seaside, rather than e.g. Base + Prosperity, Base + Hinterlands or even Base + Cornucopia. It was quite common to have Council Room or Bureaucrat as the only "interactive" card (when played; not taking into account emptying the stacks' interactive effect on other players) on the kingdom stacks, making the game indeed more like multiplayer solitaire due to a lack of relevant interaction. And as a former CCG player, interaction is what I look forward in a game more than deck building optimization (a concept with which I am already quite familiar with). It's precisely the amount of interaction that got me so fascinated in the Intrigue set when I first got to try it, and I am looking for something similar (play experience -wise) from the later sets.

[Captain_Frisk]

If you just mean this thread, that's a pretty small sample size.

What I meant to say is that a) the potentially longer game length from Platinum + Colonies, and b) the increased focus on engine-building (which tends to reward more experienced players) tend to have received mixed reviews depending on the playgroup. Since I am unsure of my playgroups' response, I am somewhat unsure about this expansion until I get to try it somewhere.

Ahh, I see. One important counterpoint though - colony makes the game longer than province in a vacuum, but is by no means the most game-lengthening card. A game with sea hag and no trashing will be significantly longer than a game with colony, king's court, and no curses. Don't get me started on Ill-Gotten Gains.

In my experience games with igg last about 20 turns, and frequently faster. Unopposed, you should be able to drain duchies and igg in 20. If the piles are being rushed, it's en faster.

[Karhumies]

I guess the reason why I consider Intrigue as my favorite set out of the ones I have played Dominion with (base, Seaside, Intrigue, Alchemy) is that it provides simple enough choices, simple enough card text and more interaction than the base set without significant AP (unlike players who purchase Ambassador for the first time, or Throne Room and players really bad at maths) or walls of text necessary to read through in order to understand what the card actually does and in what ways it can be useful or not, depending on strategy (e.g. Pirate Ship, Possession, even Thief and Bureaucrat).

It's not my ideal situation when the most "fun" cards, as in the only interactive cards in the set, are the most difficult to explain to the new players, resulting in a potential discussion about game mechanics before the game begins which may actually take longer than the game itself.

I mean, Swindler is easy enough to understand by reading the card and pointing out the Copper->Curse interaction. But trying to read through Pirate Ship and understand the effect as a new player is quite difficult to grasp, and explaining the Copper interaction of Ambassador in an understandable manner is quite tedious. If you take such "difficult to explain" cards out from Seaside, you are left with a vanilla set very close to the base set. But the interactive cards from Intrigue are much less frequently left out even when playing with the new players because the card text is easier to understand just by...well...reading the card for the first time. (e.g. Torturer, Masquerade, Swindler)

[Karhumies]

To me, reading through both Prosperity and Hinterlands cards, they "feel like" Intrigue cards. As in they are slightly more complex and flavorful than base set cards, but still relatively straightforward and easy to understand just by reading the card once (or in some cases, twice) - unlike many cards in the Seaside expansion, in which the clarity level of card text was just inconsistent from card to card, IMO.

On the other hand, the Cornucopia and Dark Ages cards feel like adding "salt" or spices into the "advanced players' game", when players are considering a multitude of complex options. Instead of K.I.S.S. "minmaxing", and keeping the deck small and simple á la base set (Chapel, I am looking at you).

[Karhumies]

Basically, what I wanted to say is this (taken from another thread), except IMO "attacks" should be replaced with "player interaction" (wider CCG concept including, but not limited to, "attacks"):

... I used to think of attacks as "crap, that's going to mess up my deck"; now I try to think of them as "how do I build my deck to do the best in this interestingly different and slower environment". Attacks give Dominion a much larger space of interesting games and strategies, since they slow down the game and allow different things to happen that would never happen without them. This is one reason I often like Cursers in games, and now also Looters. They make you play a different, interesting way that expands the space of interesting Dominion games.

If you take away attacks, there's almost no point in playing the game. You're just both playing a solitaire game where maybe you have to watch out for piles or something.

...   In addition to the good things they do for you (deck-thinning for Amb, +Cards for Torturer, etc.), by slowing your opponent down they provide that crucial element- time- to build your clever engine and catch up.  Even Sab can be crucial here, by giving you a possible path to victory after your opponent has over half the Victory points.

Take these cards away, and you don't have a situation where you can "Outsmart [your opponent] with a sophisticated engine", you have an environment where the best plan all-too-often requires a maximum of BM+X and a minimum of creativity.

In other words, I/we felt that the Dominion standalone base set was not providing enough interaction or complexity, which I would like to take into account and remedy when purchasing my sets of cards. However, "interaction" is not a synonym to "confusing card text". The latter is more like a semantics/game design problem related to some of the limitations of written language.

[Powerman]

Yeah, you can often pick up Base dominion for only a few pounds (here in the UK) more than the Base Supply cards, so it's really worth keeping that set on your radar considering how many cards you get with it. Base can feel boring on its own, but it does come back to life when combine with the others sets, the directness of them can be a refreshing change of tempo.

I guess the problem is that my playgroup has played too much vanilla Dominion. This does not mean that the base set would be boring/bad (as some people I know seem to think by now); just that the base set is much more useful "in small doses", diluted by cards from a few expansions - rather than using it as a standalone set, or base + just a single expansion. Makes sense.

Also, the vanilla factor of Base set and Seaside were quite high compared to the latest expansions (e.g. continuous vanilla cards in Seaside), resulting quite often in vanilla-heavy kingdom stacks when playing with standalone Base set or Base + Seaside, rather than e.g. Base + Prosperity, Base + Hinterlands or even Base + Cornucopia. It was quite common to have Council Room or Bureaucrat as the only "interactive" card (when played; not taking into account emptying the stacks' interactive effect on other players) on the kingdom stacks, making the game indeed more like multiplayer solitaire due to a lack of relevant interaction. And as a former CCG player, interaction is what I look forward in a game more than deck building optimization (a concept with which I am already quite familiar with). It's precisely the amount of interaction that got me so fascinated in the Intrigue set when I first got to try it, and I am looking for something similar (play experience -wise) from the later sets.

There is a big difference between Base and Base + an expansion (or two).

IRL, I own Base + Prosperity + Seaside + Hinterlands, and I honestly notice no discernible difference in gameplay between just those 4 and playing with all (non DA) sets.

With that said, on GOKO, I only use base cards and it is MUCH worse.

[brokoli]

Prosperity seems to get mixed reviews. For me, that is a clear indication that I should skip that for now, and try to playtest it somewhere instead of making a blind purchase.

Well, I like prosperity, because I like all expansions (even Alchemy). But on average, it's one of the expansions I like the least. Because there are very strong cards (goons, mountebank) and many insignifiant cards (especially the treasures, I like them but they are not very original : bank, royal seal, etc).
I don't see the novelty of other expansions like Cornucopia (menagerie, horn of plenty), Seaside (tactician...), Hinterlands (Border village, Inn, Farmland...), or Dark ages (Cultist, ...).

[Kuildeous]

Since you're into Dominion, I think it'll be inevitable that you'll own all of the sets. Yes, even the Base set, since those humdrum Adventurers, Witches, and Remodels will be more interesting with more expansions.

So, I would advise against the Base cards unless you *really* want the improved artwork. You talk about having enough cards for 5 and 6 players by purchasing Base cards with Intrigue, but you'll eventually get there anyway when you do buy the Base set.

And this would free up your money to possibly tack on Cornucopia.

You may be bored with the Base set now (and I can't blame you), but you'll likely appreciate those kingdoms a little more when they're mixed up with other cards. Sure, Smithy may be a boring +3 cards, but it only costs 4 while comparable cards cost 5, which is not a trivial price increase.