Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: How much would this cost?  (Read 10309 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9630
    • View Profile
How much would this cost?
« on: September 25, 2012, 01:20:17 pm »
+1

Action - $?

Diviner

+1 Action

Name a card.  Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of it.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Tejayes

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
  • Respect: +132
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 01:27:23 pm »
0

A lot, perhaps $6. Compare this to Band of Misfits at $5. Both cards basically become what you want them to be. On the one hand, you need the card you want in your deck with Diviner. BoM just copies a card costing at most $4. On the other hand, Diviner works with $5+ Actions as well as all other cards. Need that Province for your Tournament? It's yours. Need that Tournament for your Province? Done. Need two King's Courts for your plan but only have one in hand? Fixed. Better yet, just KC Diviner and choose three cards for your hand and get +3 Actions to boot. And it's non-terminal, so there is no real penalty for this.

Heck, this might be too strong even for $6.
Logged

kn1tt3r

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 585
  • Respect: +278
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2012, 01:37:44 pm »
0

Hm...

It can be a strong card indeed, but it does nothing by itself, and it's "just" +1 Card +1 Action. I would it make it a $5 card, where it does quite well among Cartographer and others.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2012, 01:40:02 pm »
+1

Be sure to call it Demonic Tutor
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2012, 02:18:25 pm »
0

Hm...

It can be a strong card indeed, but it does nothing by itself, and it's "just" +1 Card +1 Action. I would it make it a $5 card, where it does quite well among Cartographer and others.

No way. "Pick any card out of your deck" is waaaaaay stronger than "draw the top card off your deck".
Logged

Jack Rudd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1325
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +1384
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2012, 02:31:26 pm »
+1

This combos very nicely with Tunnel.
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

Taco Lobster

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 288
  • Respect: +74
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2012, 02:35:07 pm »
0

I agree with the consensus that $5-6 is the right starting point, but I'd flag this card for lots and lots of playtesting.  There are only a handful of cards in this space (e.g., Scheme, Scavenger, Sage, Golem (kinda), and Band of Misfits), and the fact that none of them are the simplest and cleanest version of searching for a card makes me wonder if the ability is too potent/swingy. 
Logged

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5460
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 02:36:37 pm »
+1

Maybe make it a one-shot?
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 02:50:05 pm »
+1

The one-shot idea is interesting. Actually, you just need to impose any sort of penalty to make this a card that doesn't completely dumb down the game. What if, for instance, everyone got the ability? Like you name a card and everyone flips until they find it (maybe putting it on top of deck instead of in hand, and then giving yourself an after-the-fact +1 card. So you can use it for cards that only you have, but not really for power cards that everyone has.
Logged

rinkworks

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1316
  • Respect: +938
    • View Profile
    • RinkWorks
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 03:42:17 pm »
+2

This card basically is the strongest card in your deck.  Get a Witch and get this, and you've got a deck that is functionally extremely similar to a deck that has two Witches in it.  The only time it isn't a Witch is when you draw it in the same hand as your Witch, and in that case it's BETTER than a Witch, because...

(1) If the card had ACTUALLY been a Witch, they would have collided, and you'd only be able to play one anyway.
(2) But with your card instead, you can name Silver or Gold, THEN play the Witch.
(3) When the Curses run out, your card can draw something else instead of Witch, so you've only got half the near-useless Action cards than you'd have had if you'd bought two Witches instead.

In other words, if you've got a Witch in your hand, your card is strictly superior (caveat: usual puzzle edge cases apply) to a second Witch.

More to the point, buying one of these is strictly superior (c: upeca) to every card in your deck.

I really think the card is broken at any cost.  $8 wouldn't be broken, I suppose, but nor would it be very fun.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9630
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 04:10:33 pm »
+1

What I'm getting is that in order for this to work as a card, it needs either a penalty or a restriction.  Also, Taco Lobster - Rebuild also does this (sort of).

I don't like the idea of a one shot.  You could probably finagle something with tokens to make it a two or three shot.

There could be a discard-from-hand penalty.

Ooo, idea:

The player to your left names a card.  You name a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the card you named.  Put it in your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.  Discard a copy of the card the player to your left named, or reveal a hand not containing it.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2012, 04:54:46 pm »
0

The player to your left names a card.  You name a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the card you named.  Put it in your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.  Discard a copy of the card the player to your left named, or reveal a hand not containing it.

What about:

"Name a card.  The player to your left names a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal one of the cards named.  Put it in your hand and discard the rest."

This is way weaker though -- shouldn't be hard for your opponent to name a junk card that you have a lot of.
Logged

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5460
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2012, 05:04:35 pm »
+2

The one-shot idea is interesting. Actually, you just need to impose any sort of penalty to make this a card that doesn't completely dumb down the game. What if, for instance, everyone got the ability? Like you name a card and everyone flips until they find it (maybe putting it on top of deck instead of in hand, and then giving yourself an after-the-fact +1 card. So you can use it for cards that only you have, but not really for power cards that everyone has.

That would be brutal if you have a saboteur of swindler.  Use divination for +1 action, have everyone top deck a province, then swindle them all into peddlers.  Or top deck king's courts and then play a jester.  or top deck platinums and play a thief...
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Respect: +952
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 05:14:46 pm »
0

And at $6 no one will really buy it, because they can buy the actual card they want for cheaper.

Also, though, the Witch example is a little misleading, because you often want to just play one Witch a lot of times. In the case of say, Fishing Village, though, you actually want a lot of Fishing Villages, not one Fishing Village and a lot of Diviners.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5460
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 05:21:36 pm »
0

How about this?


Demonic Pact

+1 Action

Gain a curse.  If you do, name a card.  Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of it.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards.


The number of curses in the supply would limit the global number of uses of the card and penalize you at the same time.  It could also potentially give you a reason to buy curses yourself (to deny your opponent uses of this card).
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 05:45:17 pm »
0

The one-shot idea is interesting. Actually, you just need to impose any sort of penalty to make this a card that doesn't completely dumb down the game. What if, for instance, everyone got the ability? Like you name a card and everyone flips until they find it (maybe putting it on top of deck instead of in hand, and then giving yourself an after-the-fact +1 card. So you can use it for cards that only you have, but not really for power cards that everyone has.

I really like this idea, but as SirPeebles says you also have to make sure it isn't broken by attacks that care about the top of the deck. How about something like this:

Almost Entirely Different Card
$3 - Action(-Attack?)
Name a card. Each player (including you) reveals cards from his deck until he reveals a copy of it. Each player puts their revealed copy in their hand, discards the other revealed cards. Each player who revealed the named card discards 1 card.

I think I may have totally overcomplicated things here, but maybe the idea itself is good? I'm not sure if this is an attack, since it seems to most of the time help other players, though it could theoretically hurt them if, I dunno, they have 5 Golds in hand and this makes them reshuffle? It would be strong if you have a card you want that the others don't have, but weak for finding cards like Gold that are common and strong.
Logged

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5460
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 05:56:29 pm »
+1

That could still be abused with masq/ambassador and possession, but hey, we can't take all the fun out of the card.
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 05:57:34 pm »
0

That could still be abused with masq/ambassador and possession, but hey, we can't take all the fun out of the card.

Yeah, if Masq/Amb + Possession is your biggest worry about a card, it is in good company.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +2019
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2012, 05:59:00 pm »
+1

The player to your left names a card.  You name a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the card you named.  Put it in your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.  Discard a copy of the card the player to your left named, or reveal a hand not containing it.

What about:

"Name a card.  The player to your left names a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal one of the cards named.  Put it in your hand and discard the rest."

This is way weaker though -- shouldn't be hard for your opponent to name a junk card that you have a lot of.

What about:

"The player to your left names a card. Name a different card. Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of the card you named.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards."

So basically gets you your second best card. Kind of useless for the "double" Witch example, and roughly half as good for the Tournament/Province example if your opponent doesn't know which one you need. If this is still too good, another possibility would be to restrict you to action cards as well.
Logged

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5460
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2012, 06:03:28 pm »
0

That's a nice idea, but might even make it too weak?  I suppose you could also just say gold even if your key engine component is blocked.
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Respect: +952
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2012, 06:11:08 pm »
0

The player to your left names a card.  You name a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the card you named.  Put it in your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.  Discard a copy of the card the player to your left named, or reveal a hand not containing it.

What about:

"Name a card.  The player to your left names a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal one of the cards named.  Put it in your hand and discard the rest."

This is way weaker though -- shouldn't be hard for your opponent to name a junk card that you have a lot of.

What about:

"The player to your left names a card. Name a different card. Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of the card you named.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards."

So basically gets you your second best card. Kind of useless for the "double" Witch example, and roughly half as good for the Tournament/Province example if your opponent doesn't know which one you need. If this is still too good, another possibility would be to restrict you to action cards as well.

For the crowd that likes non-attack player interactions, this could be a lot of fun.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5460
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2012, 08:26:52 pm »
+1

What I'm getting is that in order for this to work as a card, it needs either a penalty or a restriction.  Also, Taco Lobster - Rebuild also does this (sort of).

I don't like the idea of a one shot.  You could probably finagle something with tokens to make it a two or three shot.

There could be a discard-from-hand penalty.

Ooo, idea:

The player to your left names a card.  You name a card.  Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the card you named.  Put it in your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.  Discard a copy of the card the player to your left named, or reveal a hand not containing it.

If you make a three-shot you should call it either Genie or Magic Lamp :)
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

Archetype

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
  • Suffers from Fancy Play Syndrom
  • Respect: +690
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2012, 10:44:27 pm »
0

It's not strictly better than BOM. With this, you must have the card in your deck, with band of misfits, you don't.

I could see this costing 2 and being a one-shot.

Early game, it's a weaker Sage, but late game, you can dig in your deck for a key card.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9630
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2012, 09:09:31 am »
+1

Action - $?

Diviner

+1 Action

Name a card.  Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of it.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards.  If you have another Diviner in play, trash it.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2012, 12:02:05 pm »
0

Action - $?

Diviner

+1 Action

Name a card.  Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of it.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards.  If you have another Diviner in play, trash it.

Trash Diviner, or the found card? I like it if the former, and recommend wording change to "trash this."
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 1.347 seconds with 22 queries.