Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]  All

Author Topic: Contest Idea: Filling out "the box"  (Read 12817 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Contest Idea: Filling out "the box"
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2012, 07:23:14 pm »
0

Is it really? If you trash one Province from everyone else, isn't it like gaining one yourself? But it does suck for one player if they lose a Province and the other two don't.

I still think that trashing $5 and $6 cards is more abuseable than trashing Provinces. That case is not comparable to Remodel.

Why would it be less comparable - because of the fact that the attacker is choosing a $3 or $4, and the defender is not choosing which $5 or $6?

When you use Remodel, you are trashing one of your own cards to gain a card for yourself.  With this attack, you are trashing one of your own cards to trash one of your opponents cards.

In the case of Gold for Province, the two are comparable.

Legendary Sword: I trash a Gold, you lose a Province.  Province is still a junk card, so your deck has one less junk card.

Remodel: I trash a Gold, I gain a Province.  Province is a junk card, so my deck has one more junk card (comparable to you having one less junk card).

Note that this doesn't actually tell the whole story.  In the case of Tournament, Legendary Sword still stings more because it hurts the opponent's chance of getting any prizes.  Then again, you could say that Remodel improves your own chances.  So it's still comparable.

In the case of $3s and $4s, you aren't trashing their junk cards.  You are trashing their GOOD cards.  The earlier case doesn't actually hinder their ability to continue playing their strategy (except for that Tournament caveat), but attacking their Gold and power $5s can stop them dead.  So, trashing their Provinces hurts their score but doesn't hurt their tempo.  It actually hurts your own tempo, since you have to sacrifice a Gold.  But a $3 or $4 card is a much smaller sacrifice (it's easy to pick up extra), so doing this instead can hurt their tempo a lot more.

With Remodel, you are not hurting your opponent's deck.  You are just improving your own.  The impact on tempo is different.  Against Remodel I can still do my own thing and have a fighting chance.  But against Legendary Sword, you can destroy my deck and leave me no good way to respond. 

I hope that makes sense.  Since Legendary Sword isn't a real card, I am just theorizing here.



Legendary Sword 2 seems better.  The $4 for $5 case is still a bit worrisome, but less so.
Logged

Sakako

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: Contest Idea: Filling out "the box"
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2012, 01:51:29 am »
0

11 is a regular action or treasure. 13 is a Victory card. I don't know where you got your numbers from Sakako

Oh, you're absolutely right. In that case the only really "viable" solutions are

1: 13 * 2 + 11 + 4 prizes (again, this is probably too much victory)
2: 13 + 11 * 2 + 6 prizes (maybe good? Is 6 more prizes too many?)

Combinations with "pile-and-a-half" or "double-piles", which include cards-plus-support like Hermit/Madman or Urchin/Mercenary (note, I'm not going to go into the case where our bigger pile is a base card and so doesn't need a randomizer):

3: 21 + 11 + 9 (perhaps a new base card?)
4: 21 + 13 + 7 (7 new prizes is probably too many though.)
5: 16 + 11 * 2  + 3 prizes
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1832
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1887
    • View Profile
Re: Contest Idea: Filling out "the box"
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2012, 04:58:05 pm »
0

We don't need to hit the number exactly; most dominion expansions have had blanks rather than shoehorn something weird in those last ~6 cards.
Logged

Sakako

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: Contest Idea: Filling out "the box"
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2012, 06:23:19 pm »
0

Yeah, maybe. But blank cards, in my opinion, are just a cheap way to be able to avoid this design problems. I have like 20-25 blank cards now, when I could have an extra Kingdom card or two. It's a little disappointing.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2012
  • Respect: +2127
    • View Profile
Re: Contest Idea: Filling out "the box"
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2012, 07:57:46 pm »
0

Most of the sets only have a couple of blank cards. Seaside had 12, so there could have been an extra kingdom card. The base set had 7, but they also included randomizers for the Base cards, so there would have been room for another kingdom card there as well. I think in later printings they should include a promo card in that space (one that already exists so you don't need to re-buy the set).

Alchemy, Cornucopia and Dark Ages have no blanks, and Prosperity only has one.

There are ideas out there for single worthwhile cards though. Cornucopia managed to get around having blanks with the prizes. Similar ideas are everywhere.

I also personally think that the idea to include randomizers was an unnecessary expense and having one of the regular 10 kingdom cards act as the randomizer (possibly with some marking on the front) would have been a better idea. This also helps solve the problem of black market.
Logged

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Contest Idea: Filling out "the box"
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2013, 12:37:36 pm »
0

Legendary Sword is as comparable to Remodel as Saboteur. The difference when attacking playable cards is that with Remodel you get your good card in the next shuffle, whilst Legendary Sword and Saboteur take the good card out the opponent's current shuffle, basically making the difference between the two (assuming the benefit of having the card is comparable in both decks) having the card in a single shuffle. So the difference in killing an opponent's Gold and making a Gold for your own is basically removing a Spoils from the opponent's pile, which is a big deal, although it does not seem broken.

All in all, I think the attack of Legendary Sword and Saboteur is comparable. Maybe Legendary Sword is a little weaker, so it does not seem to be completely broken with the +$2 being a prize, although the bonus could be tweaked with playtesting.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All
 

Page created in 0.041 seconds with 21 queries.