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Author Topic: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42, 43, 44: Bunker  (Read 4167 times)

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Rush_Clasic

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Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42, 43, 44: Bunker
« on: September 21, 2012, 09:27:42 pm »
0

Assembly Line (4)
Action - Reaction
Gain a card costing up to $4.
-----
Whenever a player plays an Action card, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard a copy of that Action card from your hand. If you do: +2 Cards.



  • #42 - Assembly Line
  • I decided to start by trying a strong theme mixed with an event reactions haven't yet reacted to (well, at least not like this). Playing any action card is definitely a bit too much to allow reactions to, but the limiting factor helps to keep it from getting too ridiculous, as does the facts that you won't always want to use it. I suppose that extra bit of thought might slow the game down, but hopefully not too noticeably.
  • I initially wanted to make this fight off attacks in some fashion. It still can in a manner of speaking, but not so obviously. Reactions have shown that they really just want to add some interaction into the game, and the more interesting ones allow for self-combinations.
  • I intended for the ability to reveal this card multiple times on the same trigger. I don't think it'd be too strong, but y'all know I've been wrong before.
  • I'd love to hear what problems you foresee with this card. I've been brainstorming them for the better part of this last hour.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 04:15:22 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 12:03:36 am »
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It's an interesting idea, it would just slow down games too much IRL.
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 02:01:53 am »
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It's an interesting idea, it would just slow down games too much IRL.

Not just IRL.  Online implementations would be super slow too.

The issue to having a reaction to "whenever a player plays an Action card" is that the reaction potentially triggers A LOT.  That means that, as players are playing, they'll have to pause after every single Action card to see if anyone wants to use their reaction that might not even be in their hand.  There would be workarounds IRL ("dude I don't have it in my hand, so just go") but it's just not practical.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 03:26:13 am »
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It really would slow things down a lot. I've seen attacks make the game go glacially slow, and this could suffer similar problems. Since that's been established, would enough of the slow-down problems be cut if the card looked for a specific price?

Assembly Line #2 (4)
Action - Reaction
Gain a card costing up to $4.
-----
Whenever a player plays an Action card costing exactly $4, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard a copy of that Action card from your hand. If you do: +2 Cards.

Treat this idea as more of a litmus test to see how slow the game can acceptably play. Does this sort of limit alleviate enough problems?

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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 03:43:05 am »
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It really would slow things down a lot. I've seen attacks make the game go glacially slow, and this could suffer similar problems. Since that's been established, would enough of the slow-down problems be cut if the card looked for a specific price?

Assembly Line #2 (4)
Action - Reaction
Gain a card costing up to $4.
-----
Whenever a player plays an Action card costing exactly $4, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard a copy of that Action card from your hand. If you do: +2 Cards.

Treat this idea as more of a litmus test to see how slow the game can acceptably play. Does this sort of limit alleviate enough problems?

It's an interesting concept for a card, but this is absolute madness with highway or bridge.
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 12:00:49 pm »
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This would also be hard to set up.

You'd need this,a certain 4 cost crd in your hand when a player plays a 4 cost card.

I know the Workshop effect helps, but even then, the bonus is too weak. Also,if an opponent plays a Sea Hag, I dont really want to discard my Sea Hag for a measley 2 Cards :P
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 12:17:04 pm »
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Assembly Line #2 (4)
Action - Reaction
Gain a card costing up to $4.
-----
Whenever a player plays an Action card costing exactly $4, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard a copy of that Action card from your hand. If you do: +2 Cards.

Treat this idea as more of a litmus test to see how slow the game can acceptably play. Does this sort of limit alleviate enough problems?
You might want to make it read "another player" rather than "a player", unless you particularly want Worker's Village/Assembly Line decks to be super-powerful.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2012, 01:34:19 pm »
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This would also be hard to set up.

You'd need this,a certain 4 cost crd in your hand when a player plays a 4 cost card.

I know the Workshop effect helps, but even then, the bonus is too weak. Also,if an opponent plays a Sea Hag, I dont really want to discard my Sea Hag for a measley 2 Cards :P

Perhaps that's just a bad example card, but let's use it. If your hand was Sea Hag, Assembly Line, Copper x3, you could discard the Sea Hag, draw 2 cards, AND be able to play your Assembly Line on your turn. Otherwise, one of your actions will have gone wasted.


Assembly Line #2 (4)
Action - Reaction
Gain a card costing up to $4.
-----
Whenever a player plays an Action card costing exactly $4, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard a copy of that Action card from your hand. If you do: +2 Cards.

Treat this idea as more of a litmus test to see how slow the game can acceptably play. Does this sort of limit alleviate enough problems?
You might want to make it read "another player" rather than "a player", unless you particularly want Worker's Village/Assembly Line decks to be super-powerful.
The intention was to allow that interaction. It turns Worker's Village into a situational Laboratory: You play one, and if you have another in your hand (along with the Assembly Line), you discard it to draw two cards. I don't see that as being super-powerful. What exactly do you envision happening?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 01:45:45 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2012, 01:58:03 pm »
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Assembly Line #2 (4)
Action - Reaction
Gain a card costing up to $4.
-----
Whenever a player plays an Action card costing exactly $4, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard a copy of that Action card from your hand. If you do: +2 Cards.

Treat this idea as more of a litmus test to see how slow the game can acceptably play. Does this sort of limit alleviate enough problems?
You might want to make it read "another player" rather than "a player", unless you particularly want Worker's Village/Assembly Line decks to be super-powerful.
The intention was to allow that interaction. It turns Worker's Village into a situational Laboratory: You play one, and if you have another in your hand (along with the Assembly Line), you discard it to draw two cards. I don't see that as being super-powerful. What exactly do you envision happening?
I envision Village Idiot decks, particularly as the Assembly Line can be used to create more such villages.

I don't know; maybe it's not too strong. It just strikes me as a card whose strength will fluctuate rather dramatically with the presence or absence of certain cards.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2012, 07:04:10 pm »
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Tithe (3)
Action - Reaction
+2 Cards
Remove any number of coin tokens from your Tithe mat. +$ equal to the tokens removed.
-----
Whenever a player starts his Clean-up, if he has any amount of unspent $, you may discard this from your hand and put that many coin tokens on your Tithe mat.



  • #43 - Tithe
  • The church welcomes your offering, even those not really offered!
  • I wanted to try out a reaction that has its own self-interacting strategy. I'm also still in search of odd things to react to. This came about from that combination of ideas.
  • I could imagine this costing $4, but it's so slow as it is.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 07:05:16 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 07:58:58 pm »
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Tithe (3)
Action - Reaction
+2 Cards
Remove any number of coin tokens from your Tithe mat. +$ equal to the tokens removed.
-----
Whenever a player starts his Clean-up, if he has any amount of unspent $, you may discard this from your hand and put that many coin tokens on your Tithe mat.
This is going to slow down buy phases in an annoying fashion, as people work out exactly what Treasure to plonk down to ensure they buy the cards they want with $0 change left over. Do Not Want.
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Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

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'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 04:10:23 pm »
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Tithe (3)
Action - Reaction
+2 Cards
Remove any number of coin tokens from your Tithe mat. +$ equal to the tokens removed.
-----
Whenever a player starts his Clean-up, if he has any amount of unspent $, you may discard this from your hand and put that many coin tokens on your Tithe mat.
This is going to slow down buy phases in an annoying fashion, as people work out exactly what Treasure to plonk down to ensure they buy the cards they want with $0 change left over. Do Not Want.

I'm not so sure how much this would slow down play. I don't feel like it would to such a severe degree, but that was part of the point in posting it: do people think it would cause the game to drag along? It would change the way people play a bit, but only in that they'd need to do the considering before the actual playing of treasure cards. Some of the people in my play-group already have this habit. I definitely see the other side of the argument, and it's something I'd have to play with to find out, but the feel to me isn't that detrimental to the flow of play.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 04:13:08 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 04:17:02 pm »
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Tithe (3)
Action - Reaction
+2 Cards
Remove any number of coin tokens from your Tithe mat. +$ equal to the tokens removed.
-----
Whenever a player starts his Clean-up, if he has any amount of unspent $, you may discard this from your hand and put that many coin tokens on your Tithe mat.
This is going to slow down buy phases in an annoying fashion, as people work out exactly what Treasure to plonk down to ensure they buy the cards they want with $0 change left over. Do Not Want.

I'm not so sure how much this would slow down play. I don't feel like it would to such a severe degree, but that was part of the point in posting it: do people think it would cause the game to drag along? It would change the way people play a bit, but only in that they'd need to do the considering before the actual playing of treasure cards. Some of the people in my play-group already have this habit. I definitely see the other side of the argument, and it's something I'd have to play with to find out, but the feel to me isn't that detrimental to the flow of play.

IMO the problem isn't that it would slow down the game.  It's that this card gets shut down so, so easily.  It wouldn't be difficult to hold back a few Copper so that there is no wasted coin.  In the rare cases where you can't help but lay down extra money, your opponent will have to have Tithe in hand to get anything out of it.  It's just not going to work.

Also, the +2 Cards seems out of place with the tokens-for-money.
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2012, 04:28:43 pm »
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IMO the problem isn't that it would slow down the game.  It's that this card gets shut down so, so easily.  It wouldn't be difficult to hold back a few Copper so that there is no wasted coin.  In the rare cases where you can't help but lay down extra money, your opponent will have to have Tithe in hand to get anything out of it.  It's just not going to work.

You can reveal it on yourself as well, which provides a bit more strategy to the storage idea. I imagine that trying to play around this card is, like you suggested, not that hard, but it'll have its chances in multiplayer to get going, and in two-player the self-storage plan could prove to be quite worthwhile. I'm wondering if it's too good on that front, giving up all your coins this turn for a chance to spend them in a later turn. It's a bit like Tactician in that sense.

Also, the +2 Cards seems out of place with the tokens-for-money.

Making it +$ was out of the question since the latter half is already doing that, and meshing the two feels awkward. Making it a cantrip could work, but multiples don't do much with each other in that capacity, which isn't to say they need to. +1 Action, +1 Buy was a strong consideration, but I just didn't feel the Forager route was as interesting. With just the plain +2 cards, multiples have the interesting synergy of being useful when draw together, should you want to waste some $ for the turn. With everything else going on with the card, drawing just seemed simplest. +1 Action, +1 Buy has a really good chance of being the right answer, though.

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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42, 43: Tithe
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2012, 04:32:31 pm »
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My submission to the $2 Card contest used a similar tokens-for-money concept (and that comes out of another concept I posted here a few months back).  I think +Buy works well for such a "storage" card.

Revealing it on yourself is not a bad idea.  In that case, I would leave it at just you.  While it's not hard for others to play around it, it can get annoying to have to do so.  I would suggest cutting it out and developing the card on the concept of storing your own surplus.
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42, 43: Tithe
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2012, 04:50:34 pm »
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razorborne was telling me that very thing. I wanted to try it out here, but it doesn't seem to be all that enjoyed. I'll probably work it into a strict storage card if it proves undesirable as is, though it probably wouldn't be a reaction at that point.

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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42: Assembly Line
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2012, 04:14:25 pm »
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Bunker (4)
Action - Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
Put a card from your Bunker mat into your hand.
-----
Whenever one or more cards is put into your discard pile other than during Clean-up, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, set one of those cards aside on your Bunker mat. Shuffle the rest and put them on the bottom of your deck.



  • #44 - Storage
  • Watchtower has always fascinated me. The reaction half is a rather thematic way to make it be used as a defensive effort as well as a combo piece. That duality makes it one of my favorite cards in the game (plus I like "draw up to cards" a lot). I wanted to make a card that had a similar function. The first question to answer was "how can you fight against all the attack types?" The most common thread is that most put cards into your discard pile. So, I built the card around that. It also has the natural bonus of being able to react to anything you buy or gain yourself.
  • I usually avoid the wacky work-around when it comes to making reactions. This time, though, I felt it was acceptable. Shuffling a small amount of cards isn't that time-consuming, even if you do it a few more times a game. I needed a way to solve what happens when you Hunting Party through your whole deck; that sort of overwhelming selection on what to send away seemed a bit much.
  • The balance on this card is tricky. The slow start of it doing mostly nothing initially is made up for in a number of ways. I thought about a number of basic stats to give it. A village variant seemed interesting, but I really like this slow Laboratory version, especially as the tension grows on which half to use it for. It's a tough card to balance, and I really want to playtest it.
  • There was also a lot of consideration of whether to make this a $4 or a $3 and build the stats around it. I wasn't sure if it was more interesting to be able to double up on this right away. It very well might be, and in that case, I'd probably change it to +2 Actions with no card draw for $3.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 04:17:32 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42, 43, 44: Bunker
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2012, 05:54:01 pm »
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So its like Native Village, but has some trade offs. I like it.

There could be a problem with crazy combos with KC where you buy it, set it aside, and use it when you want to do your big combo.

I would remove the "when a card is put into your discard pile" to "when you gain a card". This card is already a pseudo trasher that is arguably better than NV, so removing the discarding buff should make this card a lot more balanced and cleaner.

Overall, cool card. I would definitely change the wording though.
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Re: Clasic_Cards - (Reaction Week) - #42, 43, 44: Bunker
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 10:40:37 am »
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I really do want to make the trigger I outlined work, cause its a neat intersection of all the attacks without having to say "attack", but for this card, you might be right. The bigger picture seems like it'd rather use "gain". I didn't see it since I designed from the other end out.
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