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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!  (Read 44552 times)

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rinkworks

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Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« on: September 20, 2012, 02:06:49 pm »
+4

Submission Rules

* Submit no more than one card per person per challenge.  You do not need to submit for all challenges if you don't want to, but of course you can't win if you don't compete.
* Submit your cards to me via this forum's messaging system.  Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
* Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
* Although you must submit names for each of your cards, the names will not be listed on the voting ballots, so make sure your card's appeal does not depend on your choice of name.
* I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.  That is, don't tell me "Oh, can you make that +2 Cards say +3 Cards instead?"  Just resubmit the full card.
* Only submit cards that are your own design.
* You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.  This applies to cards previously posted, however -- if your submissions aren't already posted on his board, please refrain from doing so until after the results have been announced.
* A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series.  However, you may not submit the same card for more than one concurrent challenge.  That is, if you have submitted a card to one challenge, you may not submit it to another challenge until the results of that first challenge have been announced.
* Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere

--

The deadline for this week's challenges is Thursday, September 27, at 10am EDT.

--

Challenge #17 - +Buy

Objective: Create a card that offers at least +1 Buy each time it is played.  The card need not always give +Buy, but it must always (rare edge cases excepted) be possible for the player to choose to get +Buy by playing the card.

Official Examples: Numerous cards that give +Buy flat out, such as Festival, Baron, Salvager, and Contraband.  Pawn and Squire, because the player is always free to choose the +Buy options on these cards.  Hamlet, because the player may choose to discard a card to get +Buy except in the rare circumstance where the player no longer has any cards in hand.  Tactician, even though the +Buy is only offered on the next turn. 

Official Non-Examples: Spice Merchant, because not having a Treasure in hand to trash happens a bit too often to be considered an edge case.  City, because not getting +Buy out of that card is common.  Workshop, Black Market, Possession, and other sources of "pseudo-buys" (as they are sometimes called), because that's not good enough.

--

The Ballot
The Results
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 02:49:11 pm by rinkworks »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 03:21:26 pm »
0

AT LAST.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 04:24:30 pm »
+2

Official Non-Examples: ...  Workshop, Black Market, Possession, and other sources of "pseudo-buys" (as they are sometimes called), because that's not good enough.
I believe this argument has made my day. +1, sir.
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Davio

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 05:40:49 pm »
0

Okay, I'm in, but it took me a little longer than usual.  ;D
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 12:49:48 am »
0

From the card design guide:

"+1 Buy is probably usually worth an extra coin, as demonstrated by Village and Worker's Village. Adding +1 Buy onto something is possibly not enough to warrant crossing the $4 to $5 threshold, but this valuation probably suffices for the lower costs. You should also consider whether the +1 Buy is just an unrelated buff or if it synergizes with what else the card does. For example, the +1 Buy on Worker's Village is just a extra bonus. On Salvager, Bridge, Goons, and Contraband, the +Buy makes the card as a whole work properly. (On Contraband, it allows you to compensate for being blocked from Provinces by picking up two Duchies instead of just one.) If the +Buy synergizes with the rest of the card, you can possibly justify a steeper price bump.

Note, by the way, that a second +Buy is probably not worth the same price increase that the first +Buy is worth. Buys go unused quite frequently; the more +Buys your card offers, the more likely the extras will be unnecessary."

I also know that I'll be personally voting based on how the card synergises with its +buy. An otherwise good card that just seems to have the +buy thrown on doesn't seem to fit the spirit of the competition.
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 01:23:02 am »
0

Agreeing with NMF, I vote for cards that fit a challenge. Not for cards with an effect tacked on so it can qualify.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 01:29:29 am »
+2

I'm pretty open for this one.  I think some cards can end up doing too much to self-synergize (Crystal Ball borders on that, but I like it because of the link to the card name).  I'll be OK if +Buy is tacked onto a card so long as it doesn't seem out of place.  +Buy on WV is just a tacked on bonus, but it works fine.

Since there are so many other cards in this set that synergize with +Buy, I might prefer a very simple +Buy card from this contest.

I also think that I will shy away from any cost reducers, since we already have 2.  (I can barely remember all my biases at this point! ;) )
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Davio

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 02:04:18 am »
0

Agreeing with NMF, I vote for cards that fit a challenge. Not for cards with an effect tacked on so it can qualify.
Well, I tried to create an original card especially for this challenge.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 02:17:54 am »
0

IMO cards like Pawn would fit fine, since the +buy is a major consideration into whether you want to buy it or not. It's such a hard thing to judge though; it's not immediately obvious why the +buy works so well on Council Room, Wharf, Storeroom, and other cards where it appears to be "tacked on".

My criteria will be "if this didn't have the +buy, would it play any differently?"
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 02:20:45 am »
0

IMO cards like Pawn would fit fine, since the +buy is a major consideration into whether you want to buy it or not. It's such a hard thing to judge though; it's not immediately obvious why the +buy works so well on Council Room, Wharf, Storeroom, and other cards where it appears to be "tacked on".

My criteria will be "if this didn't have the +buy, would it play any differently?"

So what's your opinion of Worker's Village? :P

(I think we're on the same page, anyway.)
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 07:53:37 pm »
0

Workers village is a nice, simple card that fills 2 niches that need to be in every expansion anyway. It wouldn't be the greatest fan card, but its role as an official card is perfect.
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Tables

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2012, 08:54:36 pm »
+2

Worker's Villages +buy is very valuable, though. If you're building an engine, two things you pretty much always want are extra actions and extra buys. Worker's Village giving both for $4 makes it such a good card. Hamlet as well, and so the +buy is a big part of both cards.

Looking at other official cards, which cards seem like they might work almost as well without the +buy?
Baron would work just as well as an opener, but would be less effective in engines.
Wharf would be worse, but would still be up there as one of the best $5's (I'd wager in the top 1/4 still, if not top 10)
City's situational +buy, probably. By the time you're getting it the game's likely over, so if you've needed it (for a while), you probably have no chance.
Horse Traders +buy looks quite weak on there to me, actually... Although of course it does go well with the lump of money it's providing.
Margrave is an interesting one. Without it it'd still be a +3 cards with attack like Rabble and Torturer, but how much worse would it be? Probably somewhat.
Storeroom is probably the strongest case for 'random +buy' on an official card, but since I've never played it... how much can I comment?

I think actually, looking through this, I can see four big occurences of where +buys occur.
1) Cards that give reasonable +coin. Woodcutter, Festival, Baron, Contraband, Horse Traders, Nomad Camp and others
2) Cards which synergise well with the +buy for various reasons. Bridge, Princess, Worker's Village, Hamlet, Market, Goons, Grand Market, Contraband, Herbalist and others.
3) Cards which have (close to or exactly) mandatory trashing. Salvager, Trade Route, Counterfeit, Forager
4) Cards with strong draw. Margrave, Council Room, Wharf, Tactician

There are a few others which don't really fit into those categories, but have other sensible reasons for having +buy (e.g. Pawn, Squire). But these are essentially what the categories are as best I can tell, so if you're still designing a card, let this guide you.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 11:09:52 am »
+2

I can't tell how much of this conversation, if any, is still about that excerpt from my fan card creation guide, but I'll clarify what I mean anyway.  I was speaking almost exclusively in terms of pricing +Buy cards.  I wasn't criticizing fan cards (or indeed, official cards) that offer +Buy as an extra, unrelated bonus.  Worker's Village does offer it as a tacked-on bonus, but it's a greatly designed card, in large part because, although +Buy and extra Actions don't directly complement each other, they each tend to be useful in similar kinds of decks.

Anyway, to get back to the pricing issue, the value of an unrelated +Buy seems to be worth about one coin, plus or minus some fractional part.  But if the +Buy is synergetic with the rest of the card, you can justify a steeper price.

You see this with Council Room.  If you take out the +Buy on Council Room, you're left with a card that really ought to be weaker than Smithy.  I mean, it's a Smithy, plus each player gets an extra card -- only it's a non-terminal extra card (Laboratory) for everybody else, and just another terminally drawn card for you.  But the +Buy here is worth more than usual, because when you've added four cards to your hand (essentially doubling the size of your hand, when you discount the card slot used by the Council Room itself), you're more likely than usual to need that +Buy.  And put Council Room in an engine, when you can chain them, you'll need that +Buy even more.

Anyway, voters may obviously desire a synergetic +Buy and cast their votes accordingly.  I think a synergetic +Buy can make for an elegant and pleasing card, but I don't find anything inelegant about a tacked-on +Buy.  The only time I object is when the +Buy anti-synergizes with the rest of the card.  Then it just looks clumsy.  Imagine a Tactician that offered its +Buy on the current turn instead of the next turn -- exactly when you probably can't use it.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2012, 12:59:39 pm »
0

The only time I object is when the +Buy anti-synergizes with the rest of the card.  Then it just looks clumsy.

Uh oh. What if it's anti-synergistic on purpose?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2012, 01:07:41 pm »
+1

The only time I object is when the +Buy anti-synergizes with the rest of the card.  Then it just looks clumsy.

Uh oh. What if it's anti-synergistic on purpose?

Someone submitted a price increaser. ;)
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2012, 01:47:30 pm »
+1

The only time I object is when the +Buy anti-synergizes with the rest of the card.  Then it just looks clumsy.

Uh oh. What if it's anti-synergistic on purpose?

Well, that'd be fine too, I guess, provided the overall design made sense.  I guess I'm thinking more about cards that are complete ideas without the +Buy and then are arbitrarily given +Buy just to buff them a little, only it turns out that +Buy is kind of useless in that context.

For example, let's say that for some reason we thought the challenge #15 winner, Missionary, was a little weak and needed a small buff.  I know, add +Buy!  So now the on-play effect is "+1 Buy.  Trash two cards from your hand."  Sure, there might be times when you what that exact combination, but the normal use of the card would be in a Missionary-Junk-Junk-X-X hand, so you play Missionary, and now you have a +Buy so you can spend that X-X, if they happen to be Treasure cards, on two separate cards!  Just a strange mix of effects overall.

On the other hand, just to use eHalcyon's +Buy price-increaser example, that's anti-synergetic but still feels like a coherent design.  I mean, +Buy and price-changing necessarily impact one another, so if you're putting the two together -- whether they're synergetic (Bridge) or not (price increasing), that's got to be for a particular purpose, right?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2012, 01:50:20 pm »
0

Several promising +Buy cards in contests 15 and 16 did not make it, so there's extra pressure on this contest now!  I hope there is a tie. :P
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2012, 05:19:52 pm »
0

Several promising +Buy cards in contests 15 and 16 did not make it, so there's extra pressure on this contest now!  I hope there is a tie. :P

Yeah, I was bummed by that. I put +Buy on both my cards, as I see you did too. A set of about 20 cards needs more than 1 +Buy!
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2012, 05:54:23 pm »
0

Several promising +Buy cards in contests 15 and 16 did not make it, so there's extra pressure on this contest now!  I hope there is a tie. :P

Yeah, I was bummed by that. I put +Buy on both my cards, as I see you did too. A set of about 20 cards needs more than 1 +Buy!

My treasure was never going to win though. :P
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2012, 05:55:17 pm »
0

In looking over cards with +buy I also began to notice the cards that didn't, or rather the cards that would become broken if a +buy had been included within the card. Peddler, Bank, Hoard, Highway, Treasury, Philosopher's Stone, Quarry & Fool's Gold (just to name a few) all get way too strong with a +buy added.

Now that I look at the cards I just put down, it is interesting that they all fall into two categories (treasures or cantrips)... not that +buys are bad on these types of cards (Counterfeit/Contraband, Grand Market).
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Kirian

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2012, 06:15:36 pm »
+1

Several promising +Buy cards in contests 15 and 16 did not make it, so there's extra pressure on this contest now!  I hope there is a tie. :P

Yeah, I was bummed by that. I put +Buy on both my cards, as I see you did too. A set of about 20 cards needs more than 1 +Buy!

Especially one with three non-terminal draws.  Hopefully there will be a tie for this one; if not, I would endorse taking the top two.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2012, 07:58:51 pm »
0

Several promising +Buy cards in contests 15 and 16 did not make it, so there's extra pressure on this contest now!  I hope there is a tie. :P

Yeah, I was bummed by that. I put +Buy on both my cards, as I see you did too. A set of about 20 cards needs more than 1 +Buy!

Especially one with three non-terminal draws.  Hopefully there will be a tie for this one; if not, I would endorse taking the top two.

And I would still be happy to drop Harbinger from the set.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2012, 08:13:21 pm »
0

I had a card idea with +buy which was scrapped for exactly the reasons stated above; Not all that useful with a reduced hand size.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2012, 01:57:16 pm »
+1

Sent.  Didn't even realize there was a contest going on until now.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2012, 02:08:36 pm »
0

The only time I object is when the +Buy anti-synergizes with the rest of the card.  Then it just looks clumsy.  Imagine a Tactician that offered its +Buy on the current turn instead of the next turn -- exactly when you probably can't use it.

Bull in a Crystal Shop
$2 Action

+3 $
+5 buys
----------
While this is in play, you cannot buy any cards.


Works great with Procession!!
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 03:31:47 pm »
+1

Here is the ballot for Challenge #17!

--

Voting Rules:

Each person may cast votes as follows:  For each Challenge, you may fill your ballot out in one of two ways:

(1) Award 3 points to one entry.  Award 1 point to any number of other entries.
(2) Award 2 points to each of two entries.  Award 1 point to any number of other entries.

Submit your votes via PM to me by Monday, October 7, 2012, 10am EDT in the following format:

Quote
Challenge 1

3 CardName
1 AnotherCardName
1 StillAnotherCardName
1 AnotherCardNameGoesHereToo

Challenge 2

2 CardName
2 AnotherCardName
1 StillAnotherCardName

Please use the above format!  One card per line, with the number of votes given before it, and no extra punctuation or anything.  This will make it easy for me to copy-and-paste your votes into the format my vote-counting script needs it to be in.

Do not submit votes for your own cards.  (If you do, my script will catch you anyway.)

By submitting vote(s) for a challenge, you will automatically earn 1 point for your entry in that challenge.  This is to incentivize contestants to submit votes.  (My script does this automatically, so don't worry that I'll forget to do this.)

Note that the supplied card names are for discussion/identification only -- they are not the card names that were submitted to me.  The proper card names will be revealed when the results are announced.  Whenever card text says "[This Card]" it means the submitted text says the card's own name there.

Inclusion on the ballot means that the card was deemed eligible for the contest.  You therefore do not need to consider eligibility when voting.  In some cases, this may mean a pretty loose interpretation of the eligibility requirements.  I tried to be fair but also forgiving when a submission came in that twisted the rules in a way I hadn't foreseen.

As a voter, you may use whatever criteria you wish in determining what your votes will be.  Be as forgiving or particular as you like concerning conformance to standard Dominion terminology.   For all winning cards, there will be a chance to tweak the wording as a community, if necessary, before they are canonized.

--

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.


Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.


Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.


Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.


Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.


Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.


Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.


Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.


Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.


Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.


Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.


Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.


Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.


Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.


Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.


Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)


Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.


Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.


Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.


Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)


Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.


Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.


Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.


Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.


Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.


Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.


Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.


Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].


Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.


Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.


Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.


Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.


Space Invaders
$3 - Action-Reaction
+2 Cards
--
When your discard pile is empty, you may reveal and discard this card. If you do +3 Cards.

(Note from rinkworks:  I put this card in the wrong category by mistake.  The correct entry for this challenge follows:)


Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.


E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.


Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.


Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.


Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.


Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.


Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.


Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.


Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.


Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 09:13:08 am by rinkworks »
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 03:32:29 pm »
0

Whoever submitted the card Xenophobe, can you PM me?  In preparing the ballot, I lost my record of who submitted that one.  Thanks.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 04:00:47 pm »
+3

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

(!) A $4 Grand Market, and all you have to do is discard 1 measly Copper? Let's remember that Grand Market is undercosted at $6, because it has the purchase restriction to balance it. This is a hideously good card. Way, way, way wrongly priced.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 04:29:11 pm »
+3

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

(!) A $4 Grand Market, and all you have to do is discard 1 measly Copper? Let's remember that Grand Market is undercosted at $6, because it has the purchase restriction to balance it. This is a hideously good card. Way, way, way wrongly priced.

...Discarding a Copper is nearly-equivalent to –$1, right? So to a first approximation, it's (regular) Market if you have a Copper in hand, Woodcutter if you don't.

(Obviously it's more Grand Market–like when you have cards that can take the –copper in stride, like Minion, Library, Grand Market itself, often Menagerie, etc.)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 04:31:31 pm by AJD »
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 04:30:41 pm »
+9

Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

I hope the real name of this is "Farmer's Market".
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2012, 04:33:33 pm »
+1

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

(!) A $4 Grand Market, and all you have to do is discard 1 measly Copper? Let's remember that Grand Market is undercosted at $6, because it has the purchase restriction to balance it. This is a hideously good card. Way, way, way wrongly priced.

...Discarding a Copper is nearly-equivalent to –$1, right? So to a first approximation, it's (regular) Market if you have a Copper in hand, Woodcutter if you don't.

(Obviously it's more Grand Market–like when you have cards that can take the –copper in stride, like Minion, Library, often Menagerie, etc.)

Sure, but it's essentially always going to be Market, and cheaper in a non-trivial way. I can't see pricing this at $4 in any fair sense.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2012, 04:37:56 pm »
0

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

(!) A $4 Grand Market, and all you have to do is discard 1 measly Copper? Let's remember that Grand Market is undercosted at $6, because it has the purchase restriction to balance it. This is a hideously good card. Way, way, way wrongly priced.

...Discarding a Copper is nearly-equivalent to –$1, right? So to a first approximation, it's (regular) Market if you have a Copper in hand, Woodcutter if you don't.

(Obviously it's more Grand Market–like when you have cards that can take the –copper in stride, like Minion, Library, often Menagerie, etc.)

Sure, but it's essentially always going to be Market, and cheaper in a non-trivial way. I can't see pricing this at $4 in any fair sense.

I agree; it's kind of like trying to price Stables at $4.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2012, 04:38:14 pm »
0

Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

I hope the real name of this is "Farmer's Market".
When I organized the first fan card contest way back when I removed the names from the cards, but that was also because some submissions had been floating on the forums for a while and people would too easily recognize them. I also didn't want to discriminate against people who didn't have a good names or no name at all.

Now though I believe that card names are parts of a card's design and I would rather see them. I always try to come up with a name that's not only fitting for the card, but fitting in the existing Dominion space as well.

I mean, I understand that the names are removed, but something as simple as a name might convey the idea behind a card more clearly than just the mechanics.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2012, 04:41:15 pm »
+1

Moon Patrol?  That is strictly better than a Cellar.  Probably usually better than Warehouse.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2012, 04:46:57 pm »
0

Moon Patrol?  That is strictly better than a Cellar.  Probably usually better than Warehouse.

At a $3 price tag, it's fine if it's strictly better than Cellar.  Warehouse is a pretty different operation, as the discard comes first with Moon Patrol, so if it turns out that one is usually better than the other, that's not necessarily a problem.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2012, 04:49:50 pm »
+1

Moon Patrol?  That is strictly better than a Cellar.  Probably usually better than Warehouse.

At a $3 price tag, it's fine if it's strictly better than Cellar.  Warehouse is a pretty different operation, as the discard comes first with Moon Patrol, so if it turns out that one is usually better than the other, that's not necessarily a problem.

But Warehouse only gives you 1 Action.  If I have Moon Patrol in my hand, I'll discard the rest of my hand, giving me +4 Cards and +4 Actions.  You basically paid $3 for a better Madman with +Buy.  That makes you discard first.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2012, 04:50:21 pm »
0

Is Space Invaders in the wrong contest? It has a reaction and no plus buy.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2012, 04:51:28 pm »
0

Mario Bros. is confusingly worded. It says "At the end of your clean-up phase", but it's a duration. So is it the clean-up phase the turn you play it or the following turn?
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2012, 04:57:20 pm »
+1

Mario Bros. is confusingly worded. It says "At the end of your clean-up phase", but it's a duration. So is it the clean-up phase the turn you play it or the following turn?

What I'm taking away from it is that you get the +$3 and +1 Buy, and your opponent gets the +$1.  Does he then give it back to you after?
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2012, 04:58:17 pm »
0

Moon Patrol?  That is strictly better than a Cellar.  Probably usually better than Warehouse.

At a $3 price tag, it's fine if it's strictly better than Cellar.  Warehouse is a pretty different operation, as the discard comes first with Moon Patrol, so if it turns out that one is usually better than the other, that's not necessarily a problem.

But Warehouse only gives you 1 Action.  If I have Moon Patrol in my hand, I'll discard the rest of my hand, giving me +4 Cards and +4 Actions.  You basically paid $3 for a better Madman with +Buy.  That makes you discard first.

How is it a better Madman if you have to discard your initial hand to draw as many cards?  The strength of Madman is that you get to keep them.  You can wind up with more Actions than Madman gives you, but the more actions you have, the less likely you'll actually need them.

I also think you're missing just how significant it is to have to discard first.  The difference in power between Cellar and Warehouse ought to be illustrative of that.  With Cellar/Moon Patrol, if your next three cards happen to be dead Victory cards, you can only worsen your current turn, and if you don't your next turn will suck instead.  With Warehouse, tada, you've gotten all three out of the way.  To put in another way, Cellar lets you exchange the weakest of 4 cards for cards of unknown quality.  Warehouse lets you discard the weakest of 7 cards and guarantees that those remaining are the most desirable.

I'm not trying to defend Moon Patrol here, really.  I remain unbiased insofar as the value of the card itself is concerned.  But the reasoning behind these criticisms of it are way out of whack.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 04:59:34 pm by rinkworks »
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2012, 04:58:38 pm »
0

Is Space Invaders in the wrong contest? It has a reaction and no plus buy.

Yup.  I replaced the card with the correct entry.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2012, 05:00:19 pm »
0

Quote
Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Already gave my thoughts. Wrongly priced.
Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Again, let's compare to Grand Market. This is easier to buy than Grand Market, and so long as it draws a card worth at least $1, equivalent or better in effect. And since it only draws Actions and Treasure, it's probably better. So again, wrongly cheaply priced.

Quote
Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.

Uh, I can't really tell. Possibly not all that great, I think?

Quote
Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.

Well, this is likely too strong. I guess you can get around the attack by always trashing something, but the choice between $3 or 3 cards is really good.

Quote
Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.

I think this might also be too strong. Right? It's a super Haven with +Buy and draw.

Quote
Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

That's okay, I think.


Quote
Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

Problematic wording, I think. How do you enforce that this is the only Treasure you play this turn? It has to say "You may not play anymore Treasures this turn." OR else you just play this guy last. Anyway, I don't love it.

Quote
Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

That's kind of cool.


Quote
Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

Not my favorite. Kind of random.
Quote

Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

HATE. Creates Possession-style problems where you help one player way more than the other if you are playing with 3 people.


Quote
Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.

Hmm. Okay, Well, you have to play a Village first to be able to play Actions after this. So I think it might be balanced. Interesting.


Quote
Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

Don't like it. You can open Space War/Space War and get some random chance of gaining two $6 cards immediately. It's a huge luck factor problem.


Quote
Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

I don't like this last part. Let's say you buy a Silver. Okay, you haven't bought a Silver yet, so now you get +$1. Then what? If you have enough to buy another Silver, you already got the +$1. IF you buy a Copper, do you gain another +$1? I just don't think this concept works in execution.


Quote
Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

Way too good. Ridiculously so. Come on. Even if you HAD to trash this when you played it no matter what, it would still be way too good. You would just get nothing but this card to slingshot your way to the higher cards. Crazy overpowered.
Quote

Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.

........ Why did everyone take collective leave of their senses this round? This card is strictly superior to Laboratory, and $2 less expensive. It has the potential to be a LOT better than Laboratory. Why in the world would you price this at $3? Am I missing something?

I'm so blown away I have to pause my review of these cards.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2012, 05:04:47 pm »
0

I had that same reaction to Jungle Hunt. Surely there is a mistake there.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2012, 05:06:02 pm »
0

Also, tracking multiple Speed Racers sounds like a huge headache.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2012, 05:06:37 pm »
+1

Quote
Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.

........ Why did everyone take collective leave of their senses this round? This card is strictly superior to Laboratory, and $2 less expensive. It has the potential to be a LOT better than Laboratory. Why in the world would you price this at $3? Am I missing something?

The required discard means you can't enlarge your hand-size as you do with Laboratory.  If you fail to activate the extra +1 Card clause, it's more similar to Warehouse or Inn, which cannibalize your hand if you stack them too much.  When you do get the extra card, you wind up with the same hand-size, exactly like a cantrip would.  So it's no Laboratory.

As with Moon Patrol, though, I hasten to add that this post does not indicate that I approve (or disapprove, for that matter) of this card's overall power level.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 05:08:12 pm by rinkworks »
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2012, 05:08:21 pm »
+3

Oh, I think Robz and I assumed it was reveal and discard FROM YOUR DECK. If it's from your hand, that's different.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2012, 05:10:08 pm »
0

Official Non-Examples: Spice Merchant, because not having a Treasure in hand to trash happens a bit too often to be considered an edge case.
Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

Really rinkworks?  My deck starts with 7 Treasures in it, it doesn't start with 7 actions in it.
The Spice Merchant example was a legitimate roadblock for me in designing a card, so I would be rather unhappy if this card won.  This is on an entirely different level from Almoner in terms of rules violation.
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Robz888

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2012, 05:11:42 pm »
0

Oh, I think Robz and I assumed it was reveal and discard FROM YOUR DECK. If it's from your hand, that's different.

I also assumed this. Okay, I see now had it's not strictly superior to Lab. It is in desperate need of a "From your hand" clause, though.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2012, 05:11:59 pm »
0

Moon Patrol?  That is strictly better than a Cellar.  Probably usually better than Warehouse.
Well, it does cost more than Cellar, so it's allowed to be strictly better.

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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2012, 05:23:11 pm »
0

Moon Patrol?  That is strictly better than a Cellar.  Probably usually better than Warehouse.
Well, it does cost more than Cellar, so it's allowed to be strictly better.
I'd argue Cellar isn't that bad though, and I think it's too nice of a village.  If you have two estates in your hand, it's a lot like Crossroads.  If you don't have estates in your hand, you probably have those terminals you buy with this kind of strategy and it seems a little bit win win.
For Village to be stronger you need to have 1 or 0 cards you are willing to discard.  If you have 2 or more cards that you don't need, you're getting more draw and at least as many actions.  I don't like how they compare.

Rinkworks will probably disagree because he likes the whatchamacallit village "+2 cards, discard any number of cards, +1 action per card discarded", which is also broken.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2012, 05:25:24 pm »
+2

Combat is way too crazy strong in many Kingdoms. Except when there's no Villages around, in which case it's practically useless. That's FBI right? I mean, play a Village and then Combat. Now, every Cantrip is a Peddler. Every Peddler is an activated Conspirator. Play a couple Villages and get 2 Combats in play. Now every Pawn and Hamlet is a Grand Market! Far too easy to pull that off.

Then, put it in a Kingdom without a Village. It's a Ruined Market that costs $5.

*Note that Peddler = any Peddler variant, and Village = any +2 Actions card.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 05:27:18 pm by GendoIkari »
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AJD

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2012, 05:26:58 pm »
+2

Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Again, let's compare to Grand Market. This is easier to buy than Grand Market, and so long as it draws a card worth at least $1, equivalent or better in effect. And since it only draws Actions and Treasure, it's probably better. So again, wrongly cheaply priced.

Wait, what?

Othello : Grand Market :: Farming Village : Bazaar.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2012, 05:28:45 pm »
0

Well, it does cost more than Cellar, so it's allowed to be strictly better.
I'd argue Cellar isn't that bad though, and I think it's too nice of a village.  If you have two estates in your hand, it's a lot like Crossroads.  If you don't have estates in your hand, you probably have those terminals you buy with this kind of strategy and it seems a little bit win win.
For Village to be stronger you need to have 1 or 0 cards you are willing to discard.  If you have 2 or more cards that you don't need, you're getting more draw and at least as many actions.  I don't like how they compare.

Rinkworks will probably disagree because he likes the whatchamacallit village "+2 cards, discard any number of cards, +1 action per card discarded", which is also broken.
I'm not saying I think Moon Patrol is on a balanced power level; I was just pointing out that it costs more than Cellar does, so it's okay that it does everything Cellar does, and more. Maybe too much more.

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Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

It's a Native Market!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 05:30:28 pm by Drab Emordnilap »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2012, 05:29:00 pm »
0

Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Again, let's compare to Grand Market. This is easier to buy than Grand Market, and so long as it draws a card worth at least $1, equivalent or better in effect. And since it only draws Actions and Treasure, it's probably better. So again, wrongly cheaply priced.

Wait, what?

Othello : Grand Market :: Farming Village : Bazaar.

This is interesting.... I never thought about it before, but shouldn't Farming Village basically be better than any Peddler variant 95% of the time then? I mean, if you can assume that the card it draws you is at least worth $1, then Farming Village is Bazaar.... why isn't it a really strong $4 then?
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Dsell

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2012, 05:30:52 pm »
+1

Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Again, let's compare to Grand Market. This is easier to buy than Grand Market, and so long as it draws a card worth at least $1, equivalent or better in effect. And since it only draws Actions and Treasure, it's probably better. So again, wrongly cheaply priced.

Wait, what?

Othello : Grand Market :: Farming Village : Bazaar.

This is interesting.... I never thought about it before, but shouldn't Farming Village basically be better than any Peddler variant 95% of the time then? I mean, if you can assume that the card it draws you is at least worth $1, then Farming Village is Bazaar.... why isn't it a really strong $4 then?

Because Bazaar gives you the +$1 AND the card, which is not guaranteed to be worth $1, but very likely is in a decent deck.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2012, 05:31:17 pm »
0

Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Again, let's compare to Grand Market. This is easier to buy than Grand Market, and so long as it draws a card worth at least $1, equivalent or better in effect. And since it only draws Actions and Treasure, it's probably better. So again, wrongly cheaply priced.

Wait, what?

Othello : Grand Market :: Farming Village : Bazaar.

This is interesting.... I never thought about it before, but shouldn't Farming Village basically be better than any Peddler variant 95% of the time then? I mean, if you can assume that the card it draws you is at least worth $1, then Farming Village is Bazaar.... why isn't it a really strong $4 then?

Because Bazaar gives you the +$1 AND the card, which is not guaranteed to be worth $1, but very likely is in a decent deck.

Right, duh. Never mind then!
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2012, 05:31:25 pm »
0

This is interesting.... I never thought about it before, but shouldn't Farming Village basically be better than any Peddler variant 95% of the time then? I mean, if you can assume that the card it draws you is at least worth $1, then Farming Village is Bazaar.... why isn't it a really strong $4 then?
Bazaar gets you a card AND $1. Farming Village often only gets you $1.

EDIT: If you guys took the time to trim down the giant quote walls, I'd have a chance to answer questions first.  >:(
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Tejayes

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2012, 05:34:13 pm »
0

After complaining about such practices in the Treasure contest, I'm going to discuss these cards, one of which is mine...

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

It's a Woodcutter if you don't have a Copper, and it's basically a Market if you do since the loss of a Copper will drop the net money bonus to +$1. Probably balanced at $4, if a little strong in the early game.

Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

If this isn't named Farmer's Market, I'll shave my head. *had fingers crossed behind his back while typing that*

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Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.

Could be handy for those pesky $7 turns, if you don't mind buying a Copper. Not sure if $6 is too much, though.

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Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.

Definitely a creative idea, if a bit crazy. Looks like fun.

Quote
Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.

Meh.

Quote
Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

One or three, but not two? It's Junk Dealer with a +Buy instead of a +Card and the option to trash two extra cards. Strong opener.

Quote
Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

Clunky wording. If I understand it correctly, this could be a Gold+Potion or Gold+Buy or Silver+Potion+Buy if you get the full effect. In a full-draw deck with ample alternate $, this could be a decent-ish sole Treasure. Otherwise, I'll pass.

Quote
Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

Gimped Herbalist now, net Market later. Allows you to basically trade a crap card for something else. I normally don't care for fan Durations cards for some reason, but I'd at least want to try this out.

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Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

Reverse Harvest with +Buy. As an opener, this will usually be a Woodcutter with cycling, and a little luck could make this ridiculously strong. Then again, it's probably not strong enough for $4. Hmm...

Quote
Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

So this is a strong one-shot will just go back and forth in a 2P game, never leaving play, and always giving the current owner +$1 for each Mario Bros played. I like crazy cards, but this is too much for me.

Quote
Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.

In Village-free games, no one will buy this. Even in games with good chains available, you'll have to play this early to get the best mileage out of it. Situational at best.

Quote
Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

Up to $6 total or up to $6 each? I need clarification before I can critique for sure.

Quote
Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

Sort of a delayed Market, assuming you buy a Treasure. Meh.

Quote
Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

It's a decent one-shot or Gardens' best friend. Too friendly, even for this Gardens lover.

Quote
Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.

Laboratory-plus with a forced discard, but the option of another card if you lose two unwanted Actions or Treasures. Too strong.

Quote
Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)

tl:dr. Seriously, this is another one of those "too crazy even for me" cards. And I entered a card that changes Potion costs, for crying out loud!

Quote
Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.

Haven-plus with a conditional Lighthouse ability. Too strong at $4 for me.

Quote
Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

Do they cost more for everyone, or just me? If the former, then this is too shenaniganny. If the latter, I don't think this is strong enough.

Quote
Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.

Vagrant + Buy - Victory power = meh.

Quote
Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)

As I said before, I would like the ability to restart an Action phase. This method, though, I do not like.

Quote
Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.

Starts as an Herbalist without top-decking, then is a Woodcutter, then a Horse Traders without discard... Without extra actions, non-terminal +Buy, or TR/KC, this would be lame.

Quote
Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.

It's a Woodcutter or a Village depending on whether or not you like the bottom card of your deck. Or just what you need. I don't know about this one.

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Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.

Similar to Sky Diver, but you can discard a Victory or Curse, then do it again if you need a village. And I thought Sky Diver was a strong-ish $4.

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Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.

This Woodcutter variant allows you to get an immediate Caravan bonus if you do things right. Very situational, and pretty lame if Militia or something similar is on the board.

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Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

Oasis Market with a Hinterlands-y, Treasury-y bonus that I kind of like. Fine at $4.

Quote
Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.

Great Hall without the +Card but some Gardens potential. Is it enough, though?

Quote
Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.

Now that is a better way to convert Buys to cards, but does this work for both turns or just the turn played? In any case, Caravan is more readily spammable, but this card

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Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

Good placeholder name, rinkworks. Still, this wouldn't be all that fantastic unless you can get rid of your Treasures.

Quote
Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.

Interesting idea. Sort of a targeted Bridge that you can reuse if it didn't work for you the first time. Still a bit weak, but it has its uses.

Quote
Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.

Any card that requires the addition of a Kingdom card from another set (yes, this is a fan set, but it counts) doesn't work for me.

Quote
Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.

I like this use of "trash if you have unused Buys" better than Pac-Man for sure. This could be interesting.

Quote
Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.

Being restricted to one trash per card name doesn't appeal to me at $6, even if it is potentially worth a fortune.

Quote
Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

Play the Action once, it's a non-terminal super Woodcutter. Play the action twice, it's a Bazaar-plus-Throne Room. Play it three times, it's a King's Court that one-shots the Action. At times, I think this may be even better than King's Court, though certainly not always.

Quote
E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.

Same Action portion as Market Square, with a Reaction that is both less situational and less appealing.

Quote
Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

Too cheap.

Quote
Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.

Interesting. Gaining the Silver could actually hurt future plays of this card a little. At least, I guess that's the idea. Highly variable in power for sure, but I kind of like it.

Quote
Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Crazy Cellar. No thanks.

Quote
Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

I like this. Usually a Market Square, it becomes a Market(+) when you need it to be. Maybe a touch strong at $4, but not as an opener. I'd like to try this for sure.

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Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.

Another "+$ when you buy cards" card, but a little better done with the extra buy and the restriction to Victory cards. Still a little too Gardens happy, even for me.

Quote
Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.

Even with the discard, this seems too strong for $5.

Quote
Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.

Similar mechanic to the Holiday Village I entered a few challenges back. This one is too weak for the cost, though.

Quote
Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.

And I thought Trader was Silver-happy...
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AJD

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2012, 05:34:40 pm »
0

Oh, I think Robz and I assumed it was reveal and discard FROM YOUR DECK. If it's from your hand, that's different.

I also assumed this. Okay, I see now had it's not strictly superior to Lab. It is in desperate need of a "From your hand" clause, though.

"Unless otherwise specified, discarded cards are from the player’s hand"—though if multiple people were misled by it, it should probably have the stipulation anyway.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2012, 05:44:26 pm »
0

Vanguard can read

"You may discard your hand, if you do, gain 4 Silvers"

Which is too strong.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2012, 05:47:13 pm »
0

Vanguard can read

"You may discard your hand, if you do, gain 4 Silvers"

Which is too strong.

how do you figure?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2012, 06:05:58 pm »
0

Vanguard can read

"You may discard your hand, if you do, gain 4 Silvers"

Which is too strong.

I don't see how you can get 4 Silvers... What it does do is allow you to get 2 Golds and 2 Coppers every time you play it, which is probably way too strong.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2012, 06:07:39 pm »
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Oh, I think Robz and I assumed it was reveal and discard FROM YOUR DECK. If it's from your hand, that's different.

I also assumed this. Okay, I see now had it's not strictly superior to Lab. It is in desperate need of a "From your hand" clause, though.
"Unless otherwise specified, discarded cards are from the player’s hand"—though if multiple people were misled by it, it should probably have the stipulation anyway.

It's the "reveal and discard" that was misleading, compared to just "discard." I suppose the same "hand is default" rule would still apply, but it's not quite as immediately obvious.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 06:13:02 pm by GendoIkari »
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2012, 06:08:36 pm »
0

Vanguard can read

"You may discard your hand, if you do, gain 4 Silvers"

Which is too strong.

how do you figure?
The mean of a Copper and a Gold is a Silver
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2012, 06:13:43 pm »
0

Vanguard can read

"You may discard your hand, if you do, gain 4 Silvers"

Which is too strong.

how do you figure?
The mean of a Copper and a Gold is a Silver

Ah, so you meant the same thing I did. Except I'd say 2 Golds and 2 Coppers is a good bit stronger than 4 Silvers, in most decks.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2012, 06:52:07 pm »
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I wrote all of the below before reading any other thoughts.  I am reading now, before posting, and I see many of my thoughts have already been posted.  Some almost word for word.  So, um, yeah. :P

I have an entry in this contest, but it's not a serious entry.  +1 to first person who guesses my entry and what the joke is. :D

I actually don't like many entries this time around.  Hmm.

I will put in another disclaimer -- I know pops entry again.  He didn't submit the one that I liked out of his several ideas though. :P





Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

This is usually very close to Market.  A little weaker, so it shouldn't be $5, but I think this may be too strong for $4.  It wouldn't whiff very often, after all.  Hmm.

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Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

I bet this is called Farmer's Market.  Stronger than Market, certainly.  This is probably a weak $6, but still OK.

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Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.

Why not just say, "when you gain a card..."?  I think the only cards not covered by those three are Curse and Hovel.  The latter is a non-issue, and I see no reason to discount the former.

Given the structure of the card, this can always be +$4 if you are willing to pick up a Copper to start.

I wonder if this may be too strong.  It competes with Gold, and it fares OK.  It becomes a terminal but gains at least one +Buy in every case where it would matter, plus it can make MORE money as you make more purchases.  There's the Copper trick, of course.  And if you have a a cost reduction card available, you can pick up a few other things for free money too.

The restriction is a nice check to the card.  Not sure how worrying those combos might be.

I think this may be OK, but I'd like it a lot more if it didn't make you more money and only gave extra buys.

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Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.

Too many moving parts for my taste.  The number of choices on this card is staggering -- first, money or cards.  Then everyone has to decide trash or filter, and in that case they have to decide which card to trash/discard.  And then you have to choose an attack, and if you choose the second one then everyone has to choose a card to discard. 

This card is just trying to do so much at once.  It would be extremely slow to play, and I suspect this would be too powerful anyway.

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Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.

Seems mostly OK, I think.  It recalls Tactician a bit, so I wonder if $3 is too cheap.

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Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

Hard to judge.  Trashing 3 cards was apparently a lot slower in testing (on Chapel).  This does a few other things, but if you trash 3 it's still unlikely in the early game that you'll have enough to buy anything.  Trashing one, the natural comparison is Junk Dealer.  This gives a Buy instead of a Card, and Card is usually better.  Not sure if the 3 card trashing option would be enough to put it on par with Junk Dealer.  So maybe $4 is the right price for it.

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Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

So, if you play this first, do you choose 2?  What happens if you play more Treasure after that -- does your second choice get rescinded?

If the wording was supposed to be, "If this is the only Treasure you have played so far this turn" then it is too powerful as the first one is a terminal Gold with options if you prefer something else.

Perhaps the intention is that you postpone the choice until all treasures have been played?  That doesn't quite work within Dominion frameworks though.  Things happen when cards are played.  Other things may happen "while this card is in play".  So if this was the intention, maybe the wording could be changed to make it work.  But it would be awkward.

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Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

Looks OK to me.  There sure are a lot of Duration submissions this time around.

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Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

Obvious comparison is with Harvest.  This is cheaper and comes with +Buy.  The criteria is a little more difficult to evaluate.  Harvest wants different cards, Pengo wants the same cards.  This should hit $2 pretty easily.  It's almost certainly a better opening than Harvest.  But how quickly does it drop off?  I am not sure.

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Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

I don't like this at all.  There is probably some other intention, but this is how it would play out according to its wording:

You play it the first time and get a HUGE boost to your turn.  Huge.

In cleanup, you pass it to the player on your right.

When it gets to that players turn, they have an extra $1.  At the end of their turn, it again passes to the right.  And round and round it goes, forever.

Maybe this rotating bonus would be interesting, but I don't think I'd like it -- especially considering that there may very well be multiples of these going around and around.

I wonder if this was what the designer intended.  If so, I give them credit for thinking outside of the box.  It's just too strange for my tastes though.

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Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.

I am going to call FBI on this.  On many boards, this will be completely useless.  If you have no way to play multiple actions (no Villages, no TR, no Golem, etc.) then this is just a really expensive +1 Buy.

But on engine boards, this card is ridiculously powerful.  Get one of these in play and then every cantrip becomes a Peddler.  Two in play and they are all activated Conspirators.  KC any card and you automatically get +$4 per Combat in play ($1 from playing the KC, $1 for each play of the selected card).  It's mind-boggling.

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Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

Resub?  I feel like I've seen this before.

Is it two cards each costing up to $6, or two cards costing up to $6 total?  If the former, too swingy.

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Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

OK, I think.  Maybe a little weak.  Market Square has a really good reaction.  The effect here is not that great because it restricts your purchases.

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Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

Quite torn on this.  Probably OK.  I wonder how fun it would be though... If I'm buying this, I either want it for the big money boost or for the +Buy.  If the latter, it would feel terrible to have to trash this.  But how often would you fully use FOUR buys on a turn?  I mean, really.  Three buys even?  So you'll almost always have to pick up at least one Copper if you don't want to lose your source of +Buy.  You'll usually have to pick up 2, quite often 3.

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Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.

It's close to Warehouse with +Buy.  I think the extra chance at +1 Card is superfluous.  It will be pretty rare when you'll want to use it -- you have +1 action so you would usually rather play your actions than discard them.  And it's usually not worth discarding two Copper for a random card, I think.

Still, this is probably OK.

My evaluation assumes that the "reveal and discard" part is "discard from your hand".  If it's from the deck, then this is way, way better than Lab.

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Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)

So if a card has 2 + tokens and 1 - token, there is still no change in price?  Not intuitive.

But if you take the net change, then you run into the issue of ordering -- what happens if there are enough - tokens to make the price negative, and one + token?  Does it cost $1 (counting - tokens before + tokens) or still $0 (counting + tokens first)?

Quote
Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.

Wording should not have "and gain".  Should be: "At the start fo your next turn, +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy and return the set aside card to your hand."

I think the card is too weak since it does pretty much nothing on your turn.  However, it has a rather neat way to Moat attacks.

Quote
Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

The problem with cost increasers is that they conflict with cost decreasers.  Which applies first?  If I play three Bridges, does an Estate cost $0 or $1?

$0: 2 - 3 + 1 = 0
$1: 2 - 3 = -1 but it can't be less than 0; 0 + 1 = 1

A convention can be chosen, of course, but that's an unintuitive rule that has to be made via FAQ, since there isn't really room on a card to explain it all.

Assuming that issue is fixed, is this card any good?  +$3 is nice, but then everything costs $1 more!  That makes this pretty much Merchant Ship with +1 Buy, where that Buy is actually not so good because things become more expensive after the first one.

Another funny thing is that this can be inferior to Merchant Ship if you have a separate source of +Buy and a good enough deck to make use of those Buys.

Hm, but then you factor in that it is kind of an attack, since it should affect opponents inbetween turns...

Still, I think that price increasing is too gimicky.

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Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.

This is Vagrant with +Buy that picks up Copper instead of Victory/Shelter.  It's probably just fine, but I think it's too similar to Vagrant.

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Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)

Expensive +Buy.  Is it worth it for the effect?  As always, it depends on the board.  What happens if a cantrip or Village is played?  You now have extra actions -- can you use them?  I'm guessing no.  But this kind of mechanic worries me.

I also imagine that there must be some sort of broken combo, probably involving Bridge.

Quote
Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.

Probably OK, but I think this could get out of buy in some scenarios.  There is a reason why Diadem is a Prize instead of a regular stack of 10.

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Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.

Village or Workshop, as required.  Fine, I think.

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Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.

I like this more than Sky Diver, except this should cost $5.  I may vote for it in hopes that it gets a price increase.  It needs it.  But the potential Village and more Buys is cool.

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Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.

That's a rather specific trigger.  What if I buy a Great Hall and a Copper.  Am I covered, or do I need to buy three separate cards?

Quote
Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

Oasis:Crossbow::Peddler:Market

Except for that topdecking clause.

I guess it seems OK.

Quote
Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.

I guess it's OK.

Quote
Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.

Seems OK.

Quote
Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

Wow, um.  I don't know.  +$5 is quite a lot.  Discard 3 is quite a lot too.

Quote
Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.

Too difficult to track, I think.  Gotta remember what was revealed and what was not.  And do duplicates reduce cost by more than $1?

Quote
Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.

Sounds decent.

Quote
Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.

Hard to judge.  Gaining a card that costs MORE seems dangerously good.  OTOH, it will often force you to pick up extra junk if you don't want to lose this card.

Quote
Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.

Seems OK.  I think this might work just fine at $5.

Quote
Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

So strong.  Too strong, I think.  Note that if you play the other action only once, you get an effect that is already worth $6 on its own.  It is tempered in that (presumably) you don't get any bonus if you don't have another action to play.  But dang, this is really, really powerful.

Quote
E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.

Probably OK.  I find it difficult to judge powerful reactions like this.  I wonder if this could be cheaper -- compare with Market Square.  The only difference is the price and the reaction.  Is this reaction so much better?  Probably -- easier to trigger, at least.  Hm.

Quote
Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

Probably OK.  Choose between weaker Warehouse or Market Square.

Quote
Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.

Two or FEWER.  Grammar, people!  (I make this mistake a lot and one friend never lets me get away with it.)

I'm trying to figure out how often you can get the +$3 to trigger.  +2 cards leaves you with a hand of 6, then you discard two, leaving you with a hand of 4.  Early game you probably have a decent shot of leaving yourself with 2 Copper, 2 Estate.  So then you have $5 to spend plus you gain a Silver.  That seems really good to me.

Hmm... might be OK anyway.  I think I'd like it more if it didn't also gain Silver.

Quote
Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Much better than Cellar, but it does cost more.  Hmm.  I think this is OK.  In general, this is just a way to get a bucketload of extra actions.  Might need to be $4, but I think it's OK to start testing at $3.

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Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

Aha.  This reminds me so, so much of my $2 card submission.  It reminds me of the original concept, in fact, before I did some tweaking.  And I will indeed expound on this.

A while back, I thought it would be interesting if a set of cards used shared tokens.  The best concept card I came up with was one that would exchange those tokens for +$1.  That's how I eventually created my $2 Card submission, Plunder.

By the name "Plunder" you might surmise that it relates to Pirate Ship.  And so it did.  The original concept used Coin tokens as well, with the intent that it could combo with PS.  This is also why I made the token return worth $2, because otherwise it was always better NOT to return the tokens, because Pirate Ship was worth just as much without powering itself down.

But I didn't keep it on Coin token.  Why did I change it?  Look at the wording for Pirate Ship.  It says, "+$1 per Coin token you've taken with Pirate Ships this game".

The implications are subtle, but important. 

First, since it specifies tokens "taken with Pirate Ships", it means that Coin tokens gained by some other means (like a fan card) would not count towards Pirate Ship.  This already makes tracking difficult, as you have to keep some of your Coin tokens separate.

Second, since it specifies "tokens taken" and not "tokens you have", it means that Coin tokens removed by some other means (like a fan card) do not change the amount that PS produces.  Losing tokens doesn't change how many you've taken!  So that confounds tracking even more.

Anyway, I am slightly miffed at how similar this card is to my own earlier concept, so I probably won't vote for it.  I do realize, of course, that this concept is simple enough that independent minds could easily come up with it, so no cries of copying.  The designer didn't think enough about the implications of using Coin tokens though! ;)

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Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.

Probably fine.

Quote
Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.

Terminal Gold is too strong for $5.  Then this has +Buy to boot.  Discarding a card might be enough to temper it (HT discards 2 but it only costs $4, plus it has the reaction).  But then this will Curse others as well?  Way too good.  And then the "while in play" just kicks it up even higher. 

Too strong.  Too strong.

Quote
Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.

I think this is usually inferior to Baron.  Both will only give you money if you can draw it with a Victory card.  Baron is stricter, but for the early game it makes no difference.  Baron does not harm your next turn, whereas this does.  Baron gives more money.  If you don't draw the VP card, Baron gains you an Estate while Joust does not -- and this can be a point for Joust (really want +Buy, don't want junk) though it is sometimes a point for Baron (late game tie-breaking).

Might be OK anyway.

Quote
Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.

I don't really like this.  I think it may be too powerful that you can use this to gain two Gold before the second reshuffle (albeit you have to buy two Coppers as well).  I don't want to crunch the numbers though.

It can also gain Silvers lightning fast, and Silver gaining is pretty strong on its own.
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AJD

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2012, 06:56:08 pm »
0

Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

As written, this is incoherent, since the part under the line needs to be more specific than "During your Cleanup phase". (Following the instructions as written, turn 1 would be: I play 3 coppers, I buy a silver, I discard my coppers and estates, and put 10 copies of Mario Bros from the supply into my opponent's play area.)

I suspect the intended effect of this card is the following, though I can't be sure:

+$3
+1 Buy
During your cleanup phase this turn, place this card in the play area of the player to your right.
At the start of that player's next turn, he gets +$1.

...though there are other possible interpretations that might also be reasonable.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2012, 07:10:48 pm »
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Quote
Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

Just realized that this isn't clear.... it reads to me like if you play it 3 times, then you get the bonuses for playing it once as well as playing it twice... is that the intent? I could see it going either way. If you play a card 3 times, then you did play it once, right? Followed by 2 more times?
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2012, 07:14:03 pm »
0

Why did everyone take collective leave of their senses this round?

It seems that people like strong cards, view them as "more interesting" than weak cards, and are thus more willing to "try them out" (i.e. vote for them). Strong cards have been consistently getting lots of votes, and stronger versions of other cards entered tend to get more votes, and sometimes even win. Thus it seems to be better to err on the side of strength if you are going for votes.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2012, 07:54:03 pm »
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Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

The problem with cost increasers is that they conflict with cost decreasers.  Which applies first?  If I play three Bridges, does an Estate cost $0 or $1?

$0: 2 - 3 + 1 = 0
$1: 2 - 3 = -1 but it can't be less than 0; 0 + 1 = 1

A convention can be chosen, of course, but that's an unintuitive rule that has to be made via FAQ, since there isn't really room on a card to explain it all.

Assuming that issue is fixed, is this card any good?  +$3 is nice, but then everything costs $1 more!  That makes this pretty much Merchant Ship with +1 Buy, where that Buy is actually not so good because things become more expensive after the first one.

Another funny thing is that this can be inferior to Merchant Ship if you have a separate source of +Buy and a good enough deck to make use of those Buys.

Hm, but then you factor in that it is kind of an attack, since it should affect opponents inbetween turns...

Still, I think that price increasing is too gimicky.

I think it would work similarly to how Poor House works, in that it depends on the order the effects are played in. Village-Breakout-Bridge means Copper costs $0, but Village-Bridge-Breakout means Copper costs $1.

Also, it's a duration. Its effect lasts as long as it's in play, and just like Bridge, the cost changes affect all cards.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2012, 08:29:05 pm »
0

Quote
Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.

That's a rather specific trigger.  What if I buy a Great Hall and a Copper.  Am I covered, or do I need to buy three separate cards?

Seems like the same rules governing Ironworks for Great Hall cover this. I suppose it could use "a" instead of "1", but that doesn't seem to actually make a difference.

Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

As written, this is incoherent, since the part under the line needs to be more specific than "During your Cleanup phase". (Following the instructions as written, turn 1 would be: I play 3 coppers, I buy a silver, I discard my coppers and estates, and put 10 copies of Mario Bros from the supply into my opponent's play area.)

I suspect the intended effect of this card is the following, though I can't be sure:

+$3
+1 Buy
During your cleanup phase this turn, place this card in the play area of the player to your right.
At the start of that player's next turn, he gets +$1.

...though there are other possible interpretations that might also be reasonable.

The only question I have on this card is whether the intention was for it to endlessly go in a circle or for it to stop after one pass, go into that player's discard pile, and wait to be used again before passing.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 08:33:16 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2012, 08:55:50 pm »
0

To maximize effectiveness of my influence, I'm only going to comment on cards I think have a shot at victory, to either prevent or ensure the such a victory.
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
It's ok.  I don't love it.  Wouldn't be upset if it won I guess.
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Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.
I like what this aims to do, encourage buying a slew of cheap cards instead of one big card.  But I think its use as a copper penalized terminal +4$ is going to overshadow that and in practice it will rarely get used for a bunch of small purchases.  Decks that draw your whole deck with Oracle and Village or whatever won't hit 6$ early enough to want this, especially since its terminal.
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Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.
So this is at the price point where I'd like to see Centipede, but it is restricted to treasures.  Which is less interesting.  It's also probably too weak, so there's that.
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Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.
This isn't going to get used the way the designer intended, I don't think.
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Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.
We have too many similar official cards I think.  Between Warehouse, Embassy, Inn, Oasis, and Young Witch, we kind of already have cards that feel like this.
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Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)
The problem is, the rules say you play all your treasures, then start buying stuff.  So if you play a Smithy with this, you aren't allowed to play the Treasures you drew.  With that in mind, there aren't enough cards that support this.  Terminal Silvers work, but if there's not enough this guy is a dead card.  It's pretty weak even with terminal Silvers, really.
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Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.
Am I interpreting this wrong when I say this is strictly better than Woodcutter?  Even if it's not, I don't like Diadem style FBI.
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Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.
Waaay too strong, why do people like this?? A huge part of what makes all the official villages weaker is that sometimes you draw all your villages together and you don't get use out of the actions.  This Village guarantees that doesn't happen.  I know people like strong villages, and everyone likes Fishing Village and doesn't care that it's too strong, but I like villages at the usual power level.
Also, this is at the same price tier as both Woodcutter and Village and lets you choose which effect you want. Is there not something obviously wrong with that for you guys? 

Quote
Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.
Again, too strong for my liking.  This is similar to "Lab, discard a card" at 4$ that I recall Donald saying tested out too well, with this card replacing the card with a $, a downgrade, but allowing a village option, major upgrade.  The +buys are the gravy that pushes it over the edge.
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Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.
I like the concept, but it's a little too hard to pull off.
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Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.
This is like that other one , but forced into a particular mode, which is much more appropriate balance.  This makes the $/card substitution difference from "Lab, discard a card" enough to make this probably ok.
I don't love it, but can't fault it.
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Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.
This reminds me of how Great Hall voted more highly with unskilled players in Qvists card list, IIRC...
Too weak, very much so.

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Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.
Someone saw how much positive feedback Wind Chimes got and said "mm people like Walled Village clauses".
I think this is a bit too weak, unfortunately, though it's a nice concept.
Quote
Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.
Why exactly 2 more instead of up to 2 more?  Actually, with that in mind, how come Governor and Farmland are the same way.  Probably design principles beyond my understanding.
This card is weird.  It encourages working cheap cards into your strategy, that's a plus for me.  You can use it as a one shot Haggle too, kinda like Embargo with "gain a card costing 2$ less than the card you buy this turn". 
I don't know exactly what to think about this, in a good way.
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Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.
I don't like it when a board's key trasher is at an inaccessible price point.  That includes Forge, I hate Forge.
Quote
Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.
The second mode is too good.  It's like your King's Courting something, but the third time it turns into a Peddler.  Which is really, really good in that kinda situation.

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Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.
This applied to the other Warehouse variant, but, +buy doesn't synergize with Warehousery, which I dislike.  If you use +buy to buy a Treasury and a Lighthouse, then when you play Warehouse later, you'll have draw both the Treasury and the Lighthouse, and be all, "wtf, I want both these guys".  If you don't have any +buy, so you buy Gold, you draw a Gold and one of your starting cards, like Copper.  And then you say "oh I'm so glad I bought a sifter, I can dump this Copper and keep this Gold."
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Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.
slotmachine.gif
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Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.
I already said, I don't like Villages that are this powerful.  Village and Smithy both cost a card and an action and supply 1 more card or action than they costed.  This can cost a card and give you 4 Actions, which is 2 more actions or cards than costed.  Like.  Think of it this way.  If you draw hands and see this card and don't look at any other cards, you can play it and discard everything and get 4 Actions.  You've done no intelligent sifting, so you just have this 3$ card that gives you +4 Actions, +1 Buy
This card is actually better than +4 Actions, which would be decried as OP at 3$.  But if you decide not to play this as blind sifting +4 Actions, it was because you could do something even -better-.  So it's even stronger than that.
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Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.
This is overpowered, I think.  It's kind of like "+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 VP", which would be overpowered at 4$.  Because at the end, you can convert the tokens into VP at a 8:6 ratio, without that VP being in your deck at any point before the very end of the game.
I think with any sort of trashing this card gets out of hand.
Quote
Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.
Oh hey.. the Silver dilutes your deck so the VP cards don't hurt so much.
I'm afraid it won't work well enough in practice though because of poor comparison to Bureaucrat.
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2012, 09:07:00 pm »
0

Usual "one of these cards is mine" disclaimer, blah blah.

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

I think this is actually OK.  Strong $4 in the early game, I agree, but strictly inferior to Market early on (equal quite often, never better) since you'll never have the cards to recover.  Conflicts with strong trashing though, and actually becomes a bit weaker later in the game as it's more likely to be a more expensive Woodcutter if you can't connect with a Copper.  Of course, if you're not hitting a Copper you're probably hitting other good stuff and don't care so much.  Might actually be better than Market with certain "draw up to X" cards.  Price it at $4.5 and call it a day?

Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

I don't know that I like it fishing for Actions.  I guess the idea is that it's a super-Market (hey, there's a name) that always draws you something good.  Might be all right, I guess.

Quote
Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.

This seems fair enough to me, with a couple caveats.  The "no duplicate buys" restriction is a good move and a mechanic I like.  Might be better when "when you buy" instead of "when you gain"; this can get ugly fast with Border Village/Haggler shenanigans.

Quote
Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.

It's a pretty mild attack for the most part (the "each other player" part is never hurtful because "draw 1, discard 1" is at worst neutral).  Is $3 and a buy a fair price in a vacuum though?  It seems pretty strong, and the fact that there's an attack with it ... I dunno.

Quote
Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.

Someone above compared this to a Tactician; I think a terminal super-Haven is probably more appropriate.  I am trying to figure out when I'd particularly want it, though I guess with +2 Cards it's pretty useful in a BM deck.

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Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

Maybe?  Trash 3 cards early on seems pretty nice.  Of course, the rest of it isn't useful then, but it's almost as good as a Chapel, and you could buy a useful $2 with it out... might be too good.  Maybe I'm missing something.

Quote
Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

Others have elaborated on the "how do you know if it's the only Treasure you play this turn" thing.  Besides that, I don't like the alternate Potion thing, and it doesn't seem like you'll really use the +Buy option a bunch, which makes it another reason to not vote for it.

Quote
Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

Hmm.  Draw this/Estate/Estate/Copper/Copper turn 3, trash 2 Estates to buy Copper/Silver, draw CCCCE next turn, buy a $5 and trash your other Estate seems awfully strong to me.  And I didn't even draw your other turn 1/2 purchase.

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Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

This is a lock $2 early on, and probably averages out to like $2.5 or so (decent chance of hitting 3xCopper).  Of course, you don't need the +Buy then.  I dunno.
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Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

So this perpetually gets passed around the table (albeit slowly), since it never really leaves play that I can see?  Whatever, I just don't like it.

Quote
Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.

Dare I utter the words FBI?  Either this is completely terrible (BM), or completely brokenly powerful (draw-your-deck situations with various other cards).  If nothing else, it turns all your Peddlers into non-terminal Silvers, your Familiars into curse-giving Peddlers... no.

Quote
Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

Up to $6 EACH?  Like Treasure Map, only far more swingy.  No thanks.

Quote
Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

Hmm. I guess it's okay?  It doesn't really do anything for me.  Sort of a non-terminal mini-Quarry for treasure cards. 

Quote
Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

Even for a one-shot, I think this is too powerful -- and then I utter words like Watchtower and Gardens, and shake my head.

Quote
Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.

Does one Action, one Treasure count?  As it is, it's Inn minus an action and plus a Buy, and you get control over getting the third card; I think this would be more appropriately priced at $4.

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Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)

This actually seems somewhat weak to me, but I could be wrong.  I'm comparing it to Bridge; your opponents get one turn of benefit from it, you get two, but you don't get a $1 the second time, and it's only a Bridge for one particular card (unless there are multiples of this card around)... it might be interesting, but I dunno.

Quote
Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.

I am honestly not sure how to evaluate this.

Quote
Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

So it's $2 and a Buy twice, for $6 (and worse if you actually want to use the +Buy).  Compare to Merchant Ship, I suppose, but probably weak at $6?

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Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.

It's like a Wishing Well, only if you were really depressed and wanted to kill yourself.  Probably okay?  Not sure I'd want it?

Quote
Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)

What happens if I buy Throne Room?  I buy it, it looks for an Action card in my hand and I have to play that action twice, doesn't it?  Except it doesn't according to the rules clarification?  Space-time continuum is disrupted IMO.

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Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.

So the very first time you play it it's $2 and a Buy (because we have two buys, one from this card and one from our Buy).  With any other source of +Buy early on (I'm looking at you, Wharf), this is $3, +1 Buy for $3.  Seems strong for $3.

Quote
Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.

So basically it's a Village/Woodcutter choice (ignoring the implications of not enjoying discarding the bottom card).  I think this might even be a tad weak because discarding from the bottom can really hurt.

Quote
Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.

So +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1 for $4 if you discard one, -1 Card, +2 Action, +2 Buy, $1 if you discard two, and probably something better than $2 and a buy in a big money deck.  I could see this being awesome with "draw up to X" combos.

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Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.

I kinda like this, but I'm not sure how often the situation will actually come up to make it worth the extra $1 over Woodcutter.  Compare/contrast to the first card; this feels like it should cost $3.2, but it obviously can't cost $3 because, well, Woodcutter.

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Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

So, Oasis with a buy?  Seems fair enough, I guess.  I'm not sure about that last condition, merely because it's weird.

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Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.

(shrug) I dunno.  Pick a cheap one of these up and then your real card is the point, I guess.

Quote
Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.

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Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

I'm not sure I like a card that can give $5 at will (okay, Platinum I'll let slide).  "Draw up to X" makes this completely gross, I think.  I could be convinced that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

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Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.

Hmm?  I'm trying to think of ways this is broken, but I can't (they can presumably come up with a Copper or something awful, right, and even if they don't...), so it's basically $1 and +1 Buy for a card you already have in your hand -- unless they're cheap and you want two of them or something.  I think it's too weak for a $2, and yes I know what I just said.

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Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.

I what is this I don't even... the fact that it adds a card I don't even like to the supply makes it worse.

Quote
Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.

Yoiks, no way dude -- it's like a brokener Haggler.  I wouldn't buy it turn 1 of course, but early-mid game, hellz yeah, it's like a Hoard except you only need $6 for the Province/Gold combo.

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Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.

Maybe?  "Differently named" is pretty important here I suppose.  Might be too good even so, but I could be wrong, it is $6.  Might be okay.

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Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

Seems pretty strong, because it's, at minimum, $3, +1 virtual Action, +1 Buy for $6 assuming you have another Action.  I'm trying to think about what happens if you chain these together with cheap actions.  It's not pretty. 

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E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.

This might actually be pretty okay, because you need a second buy in the first place to take advantage of the reaction ability, which means you need two of these in hand (or some other buy source) to make it work.  Seems interesting.

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Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

I think this is better priced at $4, but I could be wrong.

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Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.

Not sure the "gain a silver" thing is necessary.  Otherwise it might be okay.

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Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.

I am quite sure I hate this (discard hand, draw various power cards; at any rate, start with +4 Actions and a four card hand is awfully good most of the time) for reasons I can't fully articulate.  Insane with draw to X.

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Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

OK, I guess; better the longer you can hold off.  I think it might actually accumulate too well.

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Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.

Seems awfully powerful to me.  Gain a Silver for $3 is by itself a decent card.

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Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.

Jeebus this is strong.  Too strong.  Am I wrong to think this plus two Highways = buy out the Ikari Warriors pile and dump a bunch of Curses on someone (until you run out of cards in hand)?  That's irrevocably broken.

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Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.

Swingy but a fair sort of swingy, I think.  I assume it's called Baroness.   It's pretty inferior to Baron, though.

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Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.

Yeah, I don't like the "buy a gold and a Cache on turn 3" play, which is basically what this is.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2012, 11:11:52 pm »
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Am I interpreting this wrong when I say this is strictly better than Woodcutter?

Not if played via Phoenix!
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2012, 11:38:21 pm »
0

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Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

I believe Donald recently said that Feast started out as "+$3. Trash this." for $4. So... Add +1 action, +3 buys, and not always one-shot.... It shouldn't still be $4.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #75 on: September 27, 2012, 11:44:29 pm »
+1

I've seen some surprising comments on some cards. Cards I think look weak people are saying look strong and vice versa. Let's go.

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Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Woodcutter or Market for $4, often Market. Well, it also reduces hand size in the process which is a good thing. One of these in your deck seems very good, getting more and you run risks of a very bad hand (compare Market x5 to Sky Diver x5...). I like it.

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Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

So now we can Farmerize cards, just like we can Grand them? Interesting... it seems like an alright card.


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Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.

I agree with Robz, I don't see the need for spelling out card types. It seems like it would go extremely well into an Engine where you're happy to pick up a few different cards at a time, and especially well with cost reducers. But in BM it's weak, and I think it seems like a fun card to try and take advantage of.


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Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.

Took me a minute to get my head around this. So it's basically three parts: Big bonus to yourself, bonus to everyone else, weak attack on everyone else. The +buy also looked a little tacked on until I saw what was going on with it in the attack, either everyone gets extra cards (+buy for you and coppers for others) or everyone loses a card (trashing for you and discarding for others). I actually don't think this looks too strong, like, maybe top 20 $5 level? +$3 +buy is pretty good, but the bonus to others outweighs it (turn an Estate into a copper, sounds good, or cycle my deck, also good). And in terms of choices, mostly I think it seems pretty easy to decide what you want. I actually think this would be an interesting card to play.

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Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.

Apt name. This doesn't seem too good to me actually. You can only set aside treasures, and how much treasure do you want to set aside? It's a bit like Tactician in a way, but it could combo very well with tactician as well. I think that actually, you'd happily set aside $2-4 to almost guarantee a Gold/Province the next turn. I think I'd like this more at $5.

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Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

One or three? This is otherwise a copper with buy, which also thins your deck, which seems too weak compared to the other forced-trasher-with-buy (e.g. Salvager, Trade Route etc. which can give +$3 or more easily), but the deck thinning early maybe makes up for that? Hard to say. It doesn't really excite me to be honest. I think I might have liked that +action to be a +$1 although then I wonder about power. Probably still okay at $4 actually.

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Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

This card's wording seems so horribly broken I don't even want to explain. But going by the card's intention, it's going to be a Gold with buy if you play no other treasure, or your choice of silver or copper with buy otherwise. In Alchemy games, it's at least copper plus Potion, which is just too good there, simply. Just... Ugh.

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Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

Flat effect is alright. In play effect is cool and interesting. For a start, you can probably turn your Estates into Coppers very easily, and generally improve your deck very well. Seems like a very fun card to use.

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Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

Reverse Harvest, with a buy. Seems a lot less reliable, though, but much better early game where you have a decent shot of getting +$4 (on turn 3, if you draw this I think it's a 21% chance... less on turn 4, and there's a 1/6 chance you don't draw it until turn 5... okay, that's actually not too great). I think this is probably usually worse than Woodcutter, and that's one of the weakest $3's already. And I don't think there's enough top of deck manipulation to make me give this a 'fun to manipulate' point.

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Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

Okay, this requires some thinking about what the heck exactly it's supposed to do. I THINK it's supposed to move the card itself, meaning you get a big bonus immediately, and then the card starts cycling around, giving players +$1 as it moves, until the end of the game. And as this is such a strong opener for $2 (one shot +$3? Yes please), I can easily see many of these entering play and basically causing massive money inflation. Pass. Massive pass.

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Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.

I like the idea, but the fact you need a village, and really NEED an engine to get any real benefit out of this card is a massive turn off. It's a pretty much dead card far too often, I think. To work well, I think you need the card to have +1 action, probably +2 actions, so it's not often still dead and then it's too good, so you need to limit it, and well suddenly you've made my submission to the village contest.

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Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

The +buy feels tacked on, and that's all I think I need to say in this contest.

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Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

Alas! This would have been far more interesting if not for Market Square. I actually like the concept, though. It means you can turn it into a gimped Peddler by buying a Copper, or a Market if you pick up a Silver (at the cost of needing to buy Silver), and even more if you can get other +buys. In particular it stacks with itself in a powerful way - play e.g. three of them, if you have $3 in play then grab Copper, then Gold, then Silver. That's just one option of course. I like this card.

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Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

Should be terminal, and even then, a $4 one shot Gold is enough to be worthwhile a lot of the time. Especially when it gives you extra buys, should you need them. Also, did someone mention Gardens?

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Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.

Uh, okay. Slight wording confusion, does this require both to be (Actions or Treasures), or both to be one or the other? Either way it's a Warehouse that gives a buy in exchange for a little less sifting. Seems fine but generally not very exciting.

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Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)

Multiples of these in play starts getting silly, as you apply the effect for each one and start to get very easily accessible cards and almost impossible to access cards. It's a very interesting idea, and this is probably the best 'tax card' implementation I've seen, and after some thought the +buy makes a lot of sense. So... do I like it? I honestly don't know. I think with some clever play it could be amazing fun. So yes.

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Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.

So it's a more extreme Haven with a weak but very interesting Lighthouse effect. I like it.

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Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

It's a barely stronger Merchant Ship, ultimately. ... Oh! But it affects other players! Which I think makes it too strong, and thus games with this will be frustrating and slow BM+Breakout games a lot of the time.

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Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.

This is pretty close to, uh, Vagrant(?) but with a random +buy. No.

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Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)

I'm sure there are some rules nightmares that will occur here. If you have at least $10 you can immediately run out the Bridge pile. And pick up at least two Provinces as a result. It's a very interesting idea though, even though I'm cautious about some rule issues.

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Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.

Strictly better than Woodcutter. Next.

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Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.

Village or Woodcutter with a possible nudge towards choosing the other one. I don't like the random linking between bottom-of-deck and what bonus you get. I don't like this because of that.

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Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.

So it's either +Card, +$1, or an Oasimarket, or a... Market+Hamlet almost thing. It seems good, but not too good for it's cost. The versatility makes me think it'd be a strong, but situational $4. I like it.

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Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.

Woodcutter with a difficult to activate condition that also makes it a Lab. Hmm... Very nice, yes. It's the kind of card that would fit perfectly into an Engine, but even if you can't activate it, it's a Woodcutter for $4 which is fine. And it's much easier to trigger with multi type cards.

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Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

Oasimarket which can go on deck. Fine. Sometimes the simple cards are best. I don't actually think the top decking clause is necessary but, okay.

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Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.

It's probably okay, but, boring. And extra buys are kinda shoehorned.

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Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.

Seems very good potentially. Turns +buy into a Lab next turn. Especially stacking these, makes your extra buys far too good. There's a reason Diadem is limited to a single copy.

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Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

Oh, man, that's tough to judge. It's a better Horse Traders, that's for sure, but without the reaction and more expensive. One of these plus a Gold or another of these is probably (or certainly) a Province, but then again, so's two Gold. In fact comparing two of these to two Golds, and this comes out worse, and discarding three cards, this probably comes out worse. So in conclusion, seems too weak. You can do clever things if you can draw your deck (discard 1 of these, draw it again, play one, discard one of these etc.) but that's about it.

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Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.

Hard to track, although let's be honest, everyone else is going to reveal Copper/Estate/Curse etc. So not that bad actually. It's a trickier to use Bridge which is cheaper. Seems like a fun card to try and make work but generally pretty poor. I like it.

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Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.

I don't like the double lines, I don't like forcing Fool's Gold, I don't like that the card is boring and usually bad, but occasionally very strong (but only probably one-two copies of it)

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Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.

I don't vote for $5 or $6 cards when they cost $2. Let me give you an idea of how strong this is. I open with this and whatever. Turn 3 I draw this, Estate, 3 Coppers. I buy Silver, I also gain a $5 card. I let this card get trashed, or even, I buy a Copper and gain another of these. Now imagine it with about $8 and three buys.

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Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.

Hmm... this seems good normally with Copper/Estates to trash, but in DA with Ruins, Shelters etc. it could get crazy. But it's a $6 and getting that many different cards into hand requires some effort. It being able to get that crazy though, I think is enough to make me err away from it.

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Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

Seems far too good. You can choose your bonus and some of them are very good (as long as it collides with an action, it's at least a terminal Gold+buy+whatever card you chose, or throne room with awesome bonuses). Maybe even as good as KC, being able to choose Smithy for 7 cards, an action and a coin is pretty awesome.

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E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.

Gimped Gold for $5, which can at worst let itself activate itself. Very nice.

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Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

Weaker warehouse or cantrip buy. Sounds alright. Not very exciting but, alright.

Quote
Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.

Obvious comparison is Horse Traders. It's a little tougher to activate, but if you can't you normally have at least $4 in hand and likely more. It seems pretty strong overall.

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Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Hmm... Cellar that generates plentyful extra actions, with a random +buy. I can't see the point of the +buy. So no vote.

Quote
Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

Native Market? Seems pretty good, probably almost as good as Market actually, although... maybe not. Hm. Probably much better in engines? I dunno. I disagree with DWetzel's comments in particular - because you need those Provinces to actually be available at the end of the game, you need the extra buys, and more than likely you'll need to do some trading in for Duchies at a 5:3 rate, which is cantrip +0.6VPs. Overall I like this.

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Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.

Sounds like a crazy engine card and pretty bad in BM. It doesn't excite me much.

Quote
Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.

Sounds too strong. +$3 +1 buy is already a decent $5, adding an almost free cursing attack is crazy, much better than Witch and Mountebank (okay, weaker after curses are gone but still). Oh and by the way I'm saying it's stronger than Witch while ignoring the instant play attack clause, which makes it utterly ludicrous.

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Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.
Um, okay. Baron does pretty much the same thing, but with discarding instead of self-Bureaucrating, and gives an extra $1. And it gains Estates. This is better in endgame, kinda, but that's not enough to make up for the penalty. I'd rather see this at $5 giving +$5 I think. And that sounds a little crazy, so... eh.

Quote
Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.

Play this. Buy two Copper. Gain two Gold. Overpowered.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2012, 12:09:08 am »
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The wording on Pole Position doesn't seem horribly broken to me. It's not on existing cards, but it's hardly ambiguous.

If you've already played other treasures, than obviously you can only choose one. If you play it first, than you can choose one or choose two, but if you choose two than you can't play anymore treasures. Pretty straightforward.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2012, 12:10:44 am »
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What I am afraid of off the bat is that people just tacked +Buy onto one of their ideas and tried to get it into the set. Let's see, starting from the bottom.

Quote
Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.
This is usually better than Market, a $5 card. Even if it weren't, it is uninteresting.
Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
This is a slightly better Market that has the Farming Village effect added to it. I don't think it is particularly interesting.
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Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.
I don't know why this doesn't let you self-curse. Other cards, such as Gravitar, do this coin for buys in a more interesting way.
Quote
Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.
There are too many choices on this card. The +buy seems extraneous.
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Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.
I don't like that this is a Tactician that only works in Big Money.
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Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.
The buy seems tacked on. The card also doesn't work well with giving a +Action.
Quote
Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.
I don't want a non-potion card giving me potion resources.
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Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.
This is a jack of all trades, not the card. It lets you trade in cards from your hand for coppers, trashes, and gives you +$2 and 2 buys overall. I like it, but I don't think we need it in the set. Seems okay.
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Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.
I love Pengo, the game, but this little game seems bothersome. It depends on luck and is only good between the first and second reshuffles.
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Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.
This confuses me a little. I don't like cards that cycle around the table. I think this card just increases the $ output of all turns forever.
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Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.
If you play KC-KC-Action-Action-Action after this, you get an additional +$12, right? This card is only good if you can play additional actions, making this useless without villages. Also, you need to play a village, this, and 3 cards after this to get anything better than a woodcutter.
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Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.
This is a Treasure Map that you can get easily, that helps you buy the other one, and this time offers a more reasonable benefit. I still don't want another card that creates that kind of gameplay.
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Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.
This almost explicitly says: buy a Copper to make this a Market. The other variants interested me more.
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Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.
This is not my favorite application of the "one-shot unless you use all your buys" idea. This one gives you the choice to use it once or get loads of Coppers.
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Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.
A weak Warehouse that lets you dump good cards for a +card. Slightly weaker than a card that said +3 cards. +1 action. +1 buy. Discard 2 cards. If either was neither an action or treasure, discard another card. The +buy seems extraneous.
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Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)
Too much work. It does seem well balanced, though.
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Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.
This is a terminal defense. Compared to Lighthouse, which is a slightly delayed Silver, this is a terminal that delays 2 cards and gives you a Worker's Village next turn. Its defense is also weaker. It is like the middle ground between Haven and Tactician. I think this card combines an element of nearly every card in Seaside, hah! seems okay.
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Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.
A reverse Bridge Merchant Ship. It gives you +$2 each turn essentially. The +Buy is a (still a good thing) liability here since all cards are costlier. This card is mostly weaker than Merchant ship for a higher cost, though I like higher cost shannanigans. Edit: I realize that this would increase the cost of cards for all other players. That makes it too strong, then. In 4player, if played by more than one player more than one turn, cards start being too expensive to end the game.
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Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.
Too similar to Vagrant.
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Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)
Lets say you have this and buy a Smithy, you get +3 cards and only the Treasures matter, cool. Lets say you buy a Count, cool stuff happens. Buy a Conspirator, hey this became a Woodcutter. This is too weak and causes too many rules headaches.
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Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.
By itself, this is a worse Woodcutter. Even if you played three of these, it wouldn't be better than 3 Woodcutters. You need other +Buy to make this even close to worth it. Market Squares become Markets, Markets become Grand Markets, Pawns become Super-Pawns. This doesn't seem to be at the right position between too weak and too strong enough.
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Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.
When I saw the name, I was hoping for a card that was slightly less adventure-y than Adventurer. The bottom of deck choice has less to do with that card and more to do with whether you want a Village or Woodcutter. That makes the card less cool than a card that just gave the choice directly.
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Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.
This, like Crossbow, is an Market Oasis. It can also be a Bazaar +2 Buys if you discard 2 cards. The versatility is cool. Seems okay.
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Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.
That is a lot of work for a little reward. You either need to buy a useful Victory card (Tunnel, Great Hall, Island, Harem, Farmlands) or  this is just a Woodcutter with a small chance to buy an Estate for an additional card.
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Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.
A Market Oasis instead of a Peddler one. It is balanced, but it isn't interesting to me.
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Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.
Like a Great Hall that you can pick up on any stray $11 that you have. I don't see this card defining or particularly helping any strategy.
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Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.
This turns every +Buy into a +Card next turn. When you have multiple +Buys, from Squires or multiple of any non-terminal +buy, this seems too good, while it is very weak without it.
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Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].
As a center-piece of a deck, this works. If your 5-card hand includes this and a Gold, you can get a Province (like with Vault). That makes the choice to get this or a Gold interesting. Seems fun.
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Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.
Other players could always pick Copper, and this is useless.
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Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.
I don't like adding Setup restrictions to our set. Fools Gold already has good friends. The article about it is on the front page.
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Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.
Now we are starting to have too many $2s. If you have this and $4 in hand, you can buy a 4 cost card and get a free Gold, but unless you also get a Copper and a free Star Raiders, you have to trash this card. If you have this and $5, you can buy a Silver, get a $5 action, then get a Star Raiders, getting a $4 card. Out of the cards that get trashed if you have unused buys, this one seems the most fun, but the giant decks this causes are a little crazy. Seems okay.
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Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.
I came up with this or remembered it (depending on whether it was mentioned earlier) when deciding on my submission. This feels like a Forge/Salvager hybrid that depends on a lot of luck and doesn't work well as late in the game as it appears. Great against Cursing/Ruins, but you have to be able to afford it against the tide.
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Space Invaders
$3 - Action-Reaction
+2 Cards
--
When your discard pile is empty, you may reveal and discard this card. If you do +3 Cards.
This is posted in the wrong contest, rinkworks!
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E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.
This is a Gold that you can use on a second buy, or a Market Square. You can play 2 of these, buy a cheap card, and then get another card. I try to get excited, but I can't.
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Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.
This is either a weak Warehouse or Market Square. These options seem boring to me.
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Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.
This confusing card provides a mix of cards and $. It seems like having 4 or less Treasures out of 6 cards is mostly to chance.
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Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.
The +1 Buy seems tacked on. I would likely discard all my cards except Actions worth 5 or more. I would then have a hand of 4 cards, +4 Actions. This is too strong, since it produces up to +4 actions, more if your hand size is larger.
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Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.
Like EHalcyon's Plunder/Wouldn't it Be Nice, this one lets you save up a little bit of money. Every other use of this could be a Market, or every 3 uses is a Grand Market, or this can be saved up for a megaturn or to buy more components. Seems strong, but fun.
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Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.
I like buying a VP card for +$3, since it is a net profit from an Estate. In the late game, this makes each Estate (which you want at that point) add further to your score. If you had 5 total buys and $10, you can buy Estate ($11), Estate ($12), Estate ($13), Province ($8), Province ($3) and get a total of 15 VP. If this card was a Bridge instead, you could almost buy 2 Provinces. Gaining a Silver is another buffer against this greening. Seems okay.
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Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.
This is just way too strong.
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Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.
We talked about a village version of this earlier. That one worked like a Festival. This one works like a Woodcutter that self Bureaucrats in order to get an extra $. It is sad when this doesn't collide with Victory cards, though multiples can help with that. Compared to Baron, this looks really bad.
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Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.
Doesn't this let you buy 2 coppers and get 2 free Golds? This seems a little silly and unworkable. Watchtower, Trader, Market Square, Pawn, Hamlet, Vault, and other interactions push this over the top.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 12:21:09 am by One Armed Man »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2012, 12:15:24 am »
0

The wording on Pole Position doesn't seem horribly broken to me. It's not on existing cards, but it's hardly ambiguous.

If you've already played other treasures, than obviously you can only choose one. If you play it first, than you can choose one or choose two, but if you choose two than you can't play anymore treasures. Pretty straightforward.

And what if another rule instructs you to play another card? Not that I can think of any official examples off the top of my head, but saying "you may not play another treasure this turn" just sounds problematic. With actions, it definitely doesn't work, like if it were played with Golem.
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werothegreat

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2012, 12:30:35 am »
+3

Seeing everyone ripping into my card (though not as badly as some) really makes me want to go back and revise it.  I really should think these cards through more before I submit them...
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2012, 12:38:45 am »
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Quote
Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

I'm not sure I like a card that can give $5 at will (okay, Platinum I'll let slide).  "Draw up to X" makes this completely gross, I think.  I could be convinced that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Vault already has this interaction with "draw up to x". Vault gives you +2 cards, and you can discard 5 cards from your hand for +$5. I don't find that the Vault, Draw up to interaction comes up that much.

Death Cart has +$5 written on it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 12:43:41 am by One Armed Man »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2012, 12:55:34 am »
0

Quote
Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

I'm not sure I like a card that can give $5 at will (okay, Platinum I'll let slide).  "Draw up to X" makes this completely gross, I think.  I could be convinced that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Vault already has this interaction with "draw up to x". Vault gives you +2 cards, and you can discard 5 cards from your hand for +$5. I don't find that the Vault, Draw up to interaction comes up that much.

It might with a Production Village engine in this set
This card's benefit is identical to Vault with a +buy for $1 more, but I think the "clash" ability is powerful.
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #82 on: September 28, 2012, 01:05:19 am »
0

Quote
Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

I'm not sure I like a card that can give $5 at will (okay, Platinum I'll let slide).  "Draw up to X" makes this completely gross, I think.  I could be convinced that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Vault already has this interaction with "draw up to x". Vault gives you +2 cards, and you can discard 5 cards from your hand for +$5. I don't find that the Vault, Draw up to interaction comes up that much.

Death Cart has +$5 written on it.
Death Cart has you trash, not discard. Which is a huge difference.

Vault gives your opponet an occasional benifit, while this gives you an occasional benifit (having an Xeno in hand)

Death Cart also lacks the +Buy this has, and has the Ruins penalty (you could argue that is useful fodder for DC though)

Overall, I have to agree and say this card is too strong. I think choice discard is interesting and would make a great theme for a fan set, but this card is just too powerful.
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #83 on: September 28, 2012, 01:13:12 am »
0

Quote
Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

I'm not sure I like a card that can give $5 at will (okay, Platinum I'll let slide).  "Draw up to X" makes this completely gross, I think.  I could be convinced that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Vault already has this interaction with "draw up to x". Vault gives you +2 cards, and you can discard 5 cards from your hand for +$5. I don't find that the Vault, Draw up to interaction comes up that much.

Death Cart has +$5 written on it.
Death Cart has you trash, not discard. Which is a huge difference.

Vault gives your opponet an occasional benifit, while this gives you an occasional benifit (having an Xeno in hand)

Death Cart also lacks the +Buy this has, and has the Ruins penalty (you could argue that is useful fodder for DC though)

Overall, I have to agree and say this card is too strong. I think choice discard is interesting and would make a great theme for a fan set, but this card is just too powerful.

Conceptually I do kind of like it.

One word should hopefully explain why this is a really dangerous card: Scrying Pool.

Okay, that's two words.  It's also pretty gross with Tactician (but, I suppose, what isn't?)
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2012, 01:19:53 am »
0

Quote
Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

I'm not sure I like a card that can give $5 at will (okay, Platinum I'll let slide).  "Draw up to X" makes this completely gross, I think.  I could be convinced that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Vault already has this interaction with "draw up to x". Vault gives you +2 cards, and you can discard 5 cards from your hand for +$5. I don't find that the Vault, Draw up to interaction comes up that much.

Death Cart has +$5 written on it.
Death Cart has you trash, not discard. Which is a huge difference.

Vault gives your opponet an occasional benifit, while this gives you an occasional benifit (having an Xeno in hand)

Death Cart also lacks the +Buy this has, and has the Ruins penalty (you could argue that is useful fodder for DC though)

Overall, I have to agree and say this card is too strong. I think choice discard is interesting and would make a great theme for a fan set, but this card is just too powerful.
[snip]
Okay, that's two words.  It's also pretty gross with Tactician (but, I suppose, what isn't?)

Menagerie.

Library.

Hunting Party.
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Archetype

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2012, 01:21:51 am »
0

Madman's pretty horrible with it too.


/jk
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 01:24:28 am by Archetype »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2012, 01:35:03 am »
0

@OAM, you have two evaluations that are very wrong.

Sky Diver is not usually better than Market.  Since you have to discard a Copper for the cantrip bit, that +$2 is actually +$1.  It's usually about the same as a Market.

I didn't notice the first time through, but Secret Quest is always at least as good as Woodcutter.  When you play it, you have at least 2 Buys, so it is +$2 -- as good as a regular Woodcutter.  The second Woodcutter gives +$3.  It is strictly better than Woodcutter!  Not sure why you think that even playing three of these is inferior.  Maybe you're not counting the +1 Buy it gives you off the bat?
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2012, 04:08:08 am »
0

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

This is a neat way to encourage Copper to remain in your deck, which is a strategy I find is fun to build around. I agree with others that the stats aren't perfectly, but I find the concept acceptible and interesting.

Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Big Farming Village is an okay idea, but not a particuarlly more exciting one.

Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.

I don't know whether I'd name the card types or not. Is buying a Curse, a Copper, and 4 different Ruins to make this mega a neat interaction or a bad one? I'd say the latter, since its risky but splashy. I don't like how this interacts with Highway, but you'd have to spam pretty hard for it to totally break. I like the idea, but I don't like that it goes for "infinite" buys.

Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.

I concede that busy cards are possibly a necessity of the game, but I think the game itself sports some poor ones, and I don't think this calamity improves on those.

Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.

I don't enjoy the concept of the mini-tactian save in its more innocent forms (see Haven). It's just a lot more difficult to balance the concept at lower costs.

Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

Trashing and extra buys don't really mesh all that well. They don't necessarily have to, but unless there's a trade-off occuring (Salvager, Trade Route), it doesn't do a whole lot. I realize that's not necessarily the main feature on this card, but it still isn't a redeeming factor. I like the trash 1 or 3 mechanic, just not for this particular set of stats.

Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

Because treasures can be played in any order, you'll need a lot of extra text to make this work. It's already messy as is.

Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

I like it! Elegant and interesting. I'm somewhat in the camp that a set with durations wants multiple durations, but that won't stop me from voting for this. One thing of note, though: the extra buy will rarely help you with trashing, at least, not early on. If you open DD/Silver, and draw DD/S/C/C/E, chances are you're gonna buy a $5 and trash the Estate rather than buy two $2s. I don't necessarily think that's a bad feature, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

Funny how this will often get worse as the game goes on. It's an interesting card that allows for blistering fast starts at times, which probably makes up a little too much for the downward spiral it takes (though it won't fall through the floor in all games). I think I like it, but I'd want to see a lot of playtesting results.

Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.

I'd go with "At start of Clean-up, pass this to the player on your right. It remains in play." I think the idea of a card continually staying in play is neat, but also difficult to manage without some special care. 10 of these running around getting passed every turn feels like a nuisance.

Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.

Too swingy for my tastes. It's either totaly crap or broken. Card's are allowed to be swingy, but should be closer to the center than this.

Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

I liked this concept in the Honda contest, but felt the spamability to be a negative feature. This twist is interesting, but doesn't really solve the issue I had with the other version.

Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

Has that spammable Market quality, except multiples of these are way more impressive at such a cost. The concept itself has some merit, but I'm more on the side of making it difficult to stack this type of effect.

Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

Interesting way to impose a restriction. Has that Cache quality to it. An okay submission.

Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.

The mechanic is broken or anything, I just don't like how the card meshes overall.

Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)

Too much going on compared to what you get from it all.

Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.

Part Tactician, part Haven, part Lighthouse, less appealing than all three.

Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

I'm not a fan of the +1 Buy with card taxing anti-synergy. It just seems pointless to grant the +Buy at all. The only two reasons I see for making a card that increases costs is to hurt other players (which this thankfully does) and on trash for benefit cards. That's the combination I'd go with and leave the buy out. It's a clever interaction, but not an interesting one in actual game-play.

Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.

Too similar to Vagrant for my votes. It would have been much cooler to say "Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $0, put it in your hand." That way it works with all the cards you listed and has some cute combos on the side.

Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)

I've been convinced that playing cards in phases they aren't normally played in just isn't fun. But I really like this card. I'm more in favor of trying this out than saying no to it because of some cautionary standard.

Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.

I've seen this idea attempted in a few ways, but never this simply. It has the unfortunate feature of requiring 3 buys just to get ahead of Woodcutter. I'm not sure the best way to balance this, but I like the card in general.

Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.

I don't get it. Like, I understand how it works just fine, but I don't know why you'd want to put these abilities together.

Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.

Simple and efficient. Seems rather decent, actually.

Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.

I like that you avoided the need to make this a duration. I wonder if the bonus is enough, but I think it is. I wonder if +2 Buys would have been appropriate here.

Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

I think the bottom half is rather neat. Not sure how I feel about the card as a whole, though.

Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.

I would love the simple Victory-only version of this. Making it an Action card took a lot of the interest away for me.

Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.

This is so good with spammable buys. A Worker's Village or Market chain turns this into a super-Tactician without the cost. I like the idea of counting unused buy (I've made some bad renditions myself), but I just don't think this is the right way to tackle it.

Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].

Has that Death Cart vibe to it. Not a bad card, really; I wonder if $4 would be just as fine. I sorta think it would.

Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.

Could be a fine Bridge variant. Not sure if I like it better or worse with the reuse ability.

Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.

Very specific. Wouldn't want it in a set that didn't also have Fool's Gold in it. Which I suspect this set won't, even if this card got top nominations. A more general card would work better, me thinks.

Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.

Haggler goes minimum of $1 down and costs $5. I fear this favors too well in comparison working up.

Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.

Nice. I like this a lot.

Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

It's an interesting exercise mentally, but I think it's asking too much of the players. Very neat. I'm just a bit wary.

E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.

The self-synergy is neat. I have a feeling it works better over if you brought the cost down to $4 and the discard trigger down to $2. But a nice idea indeed.

Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

It's just a hodgepodge. The more cohesive the "choose your adventure" cards feel, the better.

Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.

The thing that sucks about being toward the bottom of these lists is that a tired reviewer like myself starts losing his cool and just wants to say "meh" or "cool". Anyway, this card is sorta interesting, sorta blaise. It seems functional, but just doesn't interest me. (Note: I like complicated cards and simple cards of all varieties, so a card will rarely get nixed just because of that.)

Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Spamming actions like that might not actually be detrimental, but I'm not a fan of it.

Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

People sure do love their Market variants. Something about getting all the features. This one is fine, but one of the endearing things about storage cards is that they aren't easily to stack up all in one turn on their own.

Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.

This card is wacky in Garden games: play this, gain a Silver, play two Copper, buy an Estate, +$3, buy an Estate, $1 +$3, buy a Gardens. That just gained you 4 cards. I'm all for making a better Woodcutter, but not in this capacity.

Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.

I liked the simpler version posted above WAY more.

Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.

This card should be called Hypocrite. I feel it could almost be any card that gets tossed back on top. The problem then is the trigger condition becomes too easy. But requiring a victory card makes for some turns where you get nothing, and that's such a griefer. This is basically Mandarin for cheaper, and I'm not on board with that.

Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.

Interesting enough that I'd want to see it tested.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 01:58:47 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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Saucery

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2012, 05:20:31 am »
0

Well, i have the time so i'm going to do one of these. The cards that interest me are ones which have new mechanics and weird interactions, ones where I can look at it and see a lot of untapped potential for new strategies. Ones which look and play like existing cards usually bore me.
Disclaimer: most of these cards aren't mine, etc...

Quote
Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.
More cards which can be terminal or cantrip/village would be interesting, but this doesn't really give you a choice. I guess its okay.
Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
Eh its fine.
Quote
Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.
I believe the clause here is to prevent someone spamming coppers to get infinite $+1 and deck bloat. I think it would be fair if the player wanted to buy a curse for that extra $1.
Quote
Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.
A whole lot of choices. It would be fine if they all interacted together in some broad scheme, but i don't see it, making the card seem tedious.
Quote
Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.
Scoop up a whole bunch of cards and use them next turn. Opening this card/silver would allow you to hotshot to platinum by turn 4/5. Probably needs a rethink.
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Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.
Salvager works with +buy because you can sometimes generate alot of coin with it. This one not so much, I don't like +buy on this.
Quote
Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.
The timing of this cards effects given subsequent treasure plays is awkward and can be fixed with wording. Hey, if i need potions or buys, its there.
Quote
Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.
When you consider that merchant ship is simply +$2 now & later, this seems too strong for $4. Its a worthy $5 to me. Gaining cards happens almost every turn, so the mechanic only becomes interesting (very strong) when you start adding gainers or extra buys into the equation.
Quote
Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.
I'm not a fan of the luck involved in this card as an opener. Even when you refine your deck a bit, ehh its okay.
Quote
Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.
The pass around effect is overall neutral and adds some luck into the game. I'm open to a card which get passed around, but this particular card isn't it.
Quote
Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.
+$1 is worth a fair bit on cantrips. Reminds me of king's court; if you draw it with the right components before your opponent then it explodes and you usually win. Not a fan of those types of games.
Quote
Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.
+Buy lets you get some more of these, but lack of coin doesn't. It would be interesting to see if spamming these is in fact a good way to start up your deck.
Quote
Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.
Definitely good for museum. Seems fine but not super exciting.
Quote
Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.
Like a few other cards around here, its very strong with some alt VP (gardens). Problem is this is also very strong and kind of a no-brainer pickup in the majority of decks. Not a fan.
Quote
Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.
It would be okay at $4, but +buy with a card which reduces your handsize (or buying power if you discard treasures) isn't very good.
Quote
Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)
Using cost changes to hurt an opponent and help yourself. With a computer doing the work, i wouldn't mind trying this card out. In live games, there needs to be a way to tell which cards correspond to which tokens if there are multiple Krulls flying around. Love the idea but needs work.
Quote
Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.
A halfway house between a number of cards. This basically works out to both improve and preserve your next hand. Mitigates chain attacks and luck, which i like.
Quote
Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.
This is interesting enough. When you finally get around to putting a couple of these in play they can stop a BM or alt VP opponent dead in their tracks. I actually like it, but the effect could get too out of control (stalling the game) and probably needs a limit.
Quote
Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.
Theres a material difference to vagrant in that its a lab+buy in a copper deck. This only makes it a little less dull.
Quote
Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)
It seems absurd that you could play treasures then buy a watchtower and regenerate your hand. Not any more absurd than black market but still, this type of effect requires rigorous playtesting.
Quote
Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.
Quite niche. The way it should be played is quite obvious. Diadem has similar issues. Overall its meh.
Quote
Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.
The two choices being tied together is awkward and unintuitive. It would be completely fine without the bottom card mechanic.
Quote
Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.
Super hamlet/market hybrid. Probably fine, nothing new.
Quote
Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.
Very situational and the bonus isn't a big deal. Doesn't really capture my imagination.
Quote
Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.
These markets are beginning to blend together in my mind. Topdecking one or two of these is probably fine, too many and you're begging for a draw up to something.
Quote
Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.
I look at this and i'm indifferent. Hey, if i need buy or points, its there.
Quote
Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.
I suppose if you got enough of these, and enough villages, you would end up with a wharf-style engine. Turning buys into something has potential. Its better than most.
Quote
Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].
This could be the money piece of both a draw engine (if you can redraw the discarded Xeno over and over) and a draw up to engine. Its fine, but could do with being more flexible.
Quote
Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.
I'd get frustrated trying to keep track of everything when multiples are played, which seems to be what you want with bridge type cards. Concept has potential.
Quote
Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.
There's no guarantee you'll have fool's gold available. Better to extend the effect to more piles.
Quote
Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.
$2 +buy with the potential for some explosion ($5/KC, $4/gold, gold/prov) if you can pull it off. Its ok.
Quote
Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.
Its fine, better at clearing ruins than other junk. It has similar problems to forge. It could very well be fine at $5.
Quote
Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.
A whole bunch of choices, similar to KC, not particularly inspiring and falls into spice merchant territory as far as being a source of buy.
Quote
E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.
Ok, fine. The reaction is a little awkward given its a cantrip, works okay if you already played one. You'll need to know more about the top of your deck when using this.
Quote
Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.
Hey, it works. But not interesting.
Quote
Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.
Cantrip and draw up to engines will clog up when using this. Decks which want lots of cards or to hit $5 consistently will love this. Add gardens or duke and this is very strong. Maybe too strong?
Quote
Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.
Jokes
Quote
Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.
One of the better market ideas. However, when you're saving up a whole bunch of coin, you're not using the buys that a string of these will generate. I suppose the same could be said with regular markets, but you can happily grab just one or two of those. For this one, you want to play it quite often.
Quote
Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.
Mostly an awkward and not very useful terminal. This card probably dominates in alt VP, as you can get $1 gardens/silk roads or $2 duchys, and those decks want silver. So situational it suffers, and could be more interesting with some tweaks.
Quote
Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.
This is stronger than already super strong $5 cursers without the on-buy effect. Keep in mind a slog like that will usually have an estate or curse to discard.
Quote
Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.
Its okay, maybe a bit weak. I find mandarin to be much more interesting.
Quote
Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.
I agree with the others, its exploitable.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 05:32:54 am by Saucery »
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2012, 08:24:44 am »
0

@OAM, you have two evaluations that are very wrong.

Sky Diver is not usually better than Market.  Since you have to discard a Copper for the cantrip bit, that +$2 is actually +$1.  It's usually about the same as a Market.

I didn't notice the first time through, but Secret Quest is always at least as good as Woodcutter.  When you play it, you have at least 2 Buys, so it is +$2 -- as good as a regular Woodcutter.  The second Woodcutter gives +$3.  It is strictly better than Woodcutter!  Not sure why you think that even playing three of these is inferior.  Maybe you're not counting the +1 Buy it gives you off the bat?

Sky Diver is sometimes a Woodcutter. Sometimes, you would prefer a Woodcutter, if you have greened your way to a low average $. Still, it is definitely not always better than Market. It is still uninteresting.

I didn't notice the first time through, either. The wording is deceptive. Secret Quest is strictly better than Woodcutter!
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #90 on: September 28, 2012, 09:17:42 am »
0

@OAM, you have two evaluations that are very wrong.

Sky Diver is not usually better than Market.  Since you have to discard a Copper for the cantrip bit, that +$2 is actually +$1.  It's usually about the same as a Market.

But sometimes it's better, as well. The Copper discard and $2 do not cancel and become +$1. Discarding the Copper allows you to draw more cards with Library cards (as noted by others) or doesn't really matter (like with Minion). There's supposed to be a big gap between $4 and $5 and I'm not seeing it here.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 09:19:08 am by Polk5440 »
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #91 on: September 28, 2012, 10:05:29 am »
+1

Official Non-Examples: Spice Merchant, because not having a Treasure in hand to trash happens a bit too often to be considered an edge case.
Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

Really rinkworks?  My deck starts with 7 Treasures in it, it doesn't start with 7 actions in it.
The Spice Merchant example was a legitimate roadblock for me in designing a card, so I would be rather unhappy if this card won.  This is on an entirely different level from Almoner in terms of rules violation.

You have a compelling point.  The truth is, I didn't have enough time this week to vet as thoroughly as I would have liked (I couldn't even get the other ballot posted yesterday).  I stand by the card's eligibility at this point, but of course voters may use whatever criteria they wish to decide how to vote.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #92 on: September 28, 2012, 10:07:43 am »
+2

Oh, I think Robz and I assumed it was reveal and discard FROM YOUR DECK. If it's from your hand, that's different.

Ohhhhh!  The protests make so much more sense now.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #93 on: September 28, 2012, 10:41:20 am »
0

Rinkworks will probably disagree because he likes the whatchamacallit village "+2 cards, discard any number of cards, +1 action per card discarded", which is also broken.

I'm assuming this wasn't your intention, but this reads really rude to me.  I'll be happy to comment on the card after the contest is over if asked, but please let me speak for myself when it comes to what my opinion might be on it.  For now, I've explicitly stated that my opinion of the card overall is that I have no opinion.

As for the "+2 Cards, discard cards, +1 Action per card discarded" one, I have not commented on that card since Donald came out saying that "Laboratory, discard a card" (which is strictly inferior) is too strong for a $4 price tag.  As he's said this, I have no choice to concede that the Discarder Village needs a $5 price tag at minimum.

I have, however, played a few dozen games, maybe 30, with the card priced at $3 and $4, and I can assure you that "broken" is an overstatement.  As a Village, it is not especially amazing.  Here's the thing, though -- and it's a testament to how, despite playtesting being the single most important thing for a fan card designer to do to refine his cards -- it is not infallible.  I'd never actually tried using it as a Laboratory variant, only as a Village variant.

Following Donald's statement, I went back to the card and tried playing a few games using it as a nerfed Lab.  Turned out, I could see what he meant.  It IS stronger as a Lab variant than as a Village variant.  I didn't notice because I hadn't played with it that way before.  Even if I had, the strength is extremely subtle.  I probably would not have reached the conclusion that it's overpowered at $4 on my own, but I could see why he made that call (and I take it for granted that it was the correct call).

But I do not believe it is "broken," and I don't see how you can assert that it is without (correct me if I'm wrong) having playtested it even once, let alone as many times as I have.  Donald didn't say it was broken.  He said it was "too crazy," which is rather more subjective.  And he did not say that the Discarder Village version wouldn't be perfectly fine at $5.  I haven't tested it at $5 yet, but I am looking forward to doing so.

As for how this relates to Moon Patrol, I must point out that it is not the +Actions part of Discarder Village that makes it strong but the "Lab, discard a card" use of it.  Moon Patrol can't be used that way, and so if it is too strong, that's not the reason why.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #94 on: September 28, 2012, 10:50:49 am »
+1

Here are some comments, by category. Submitted cards are getting stronger and less fixable by a price change, which leaves me less to like. I also don't like as many of the mechanics this time around. I submitted a card to the contest.

"Markets"

Some nice ideas here. Cards in this category can certainly add something to our set.

Quote
Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Probably okay at $6. Nice and simple. I like nice and simple, but considering most $6 Action cards in Dominion have a little more strategic spice to them, this card leaves me wanting.

Quote
Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

It's a Market only if you buy two cards and at least one Treasure. I kind of like it, actually. It's a slick new restriction spelled out in just a few words. The restriciton is a softer version of what is being achieved in E.T.: more coin if you make a second buy. I prefer Outlaw.
 
Quote
Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

In between an Oasis and a Market. The top-decking condition could lead to some interesting buy choices mid to late game. Night Driver is a more convoluted version of Crossbow.

I don't like these:
Sky Diver: I agree with Robz888. Too often a Market or better. 
Millipede: Probably too strong at $4 and too close to Junk Dealer. I like Junk Dealer better, anyway.
Casino: Probably too similar to Vagrant, and not as well designed.
Human Cannonball: Another "save it for later" card. Only not implemented as well as some of the previous incarnations we've seen. Probably too strong, as well, as popsofctown noted. And Coin tokens on a new mat? I still don't like these fan cards that introduce new mats.

This Was a Duration Contest, Right?

Lots of durations this time! Is it just me or are the Duration cards getting worse with each contest?

Quote
Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.

The best of the bunch. Neat defense. Second turn is really strong though. @OneArmedMan: This is more than a Worker's Village: It's like a +2 Cards, +2 Actions, +1 Buy card. That's more than a $5 card. I like the idea of another duration Village, but honestly, I would have liked to see the benefits a little more spread out. If it actually was a Worker's Village on your next turn (just +1 Action, +1 Buy), it would have been better balanced.

Egg Catch: Loves Bank. And conveniently gives you a plus buy, too. Village + Egg Catch + Tactician could be pretty amazing, too. Too strong at $3.
Dig Dug: Interesting idea, but the may trash condition on a duration is most likely going to be too strong because it allows trashing on your first turn buy, during Cursing/Looting/Clogging attacks, and on the second turn all with one card.
Mario Bros: Just...no. So many wording and rules issues here. And doesn't seem that fun.
Krull: Frankly, I'm done with the cost adjustment cards for now. We just put two of them in the set two weeks ago. Also, two new tokens and the text won't fit on a card. Three stikes and this card's out.
Breakout: I'm done with the cost adjusters for now. So may as well knock out the other non-duration cost adjuster, Street Racer, too.
Surround: I don't like the ability.

Plus Buy and Coin

Lots of money is a good reason to have a plus buy. These cards give you more coin. And a buy.

Quote
Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

I like the idea here. If it doesn't hit often enough, it would be easy to change "identical" to "share a  type."

Quote
Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.
Waaay too strong, why do people like this?? A huge part of what makes all the official villages weaker is that sometimes you draw all your villages together and you don't get use out of the actions.  This Village guarantees that doesn't happen.  I know people like strong villages, and everyone likes Fishing Village and doesn't care that it's too strong, but I like villages at the usual power level.
Also, this is at the same price tier as both Woodcutter and Village and lets you choose which effect you want. Is there not something obviously wrong with that for you guys? 

Pops has a point here. I suppose you are treating $3 and $4 cards as the "same tier"? This card has AMAZING synergy with itself. Also note, you can get the +$2 and +1 Buy on Spice Merchant (which also gives you a choice), but you have to trash a Treasure, first. A $1 upcharge here probably isn't enough. I do really like the idea, though. The bottom of the deck condition is weird, though.

Quote
Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.

Nice idea. Like Forge and Bishop, helps endgame when you are canabalizing your deck for VP! Could be even better than Forge at this: a draw your deck engine with variety; trash all those Actions, etc. and buy the last two Provinces! I like this even better than the one-shot reduce-cost-by-$2 card we let in the set two weeks ago.

Quote
Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.

I quite like this. It makes a big difference that you get the bonus with any Victory, not just Estates, so I think this is worse than Baron early, better as the game goes on. Definitely not too weak. Combos with Scout (Village-Joust-Scout).

Centipede: Should probably read "...that you have not gained another copy of this turn." Definitely has to be at $6 since it's better than Mandarin in most cases. But, I like Outlaw better for this mechanic.
Combat: Unbalanceable. Money generator for engines was done better last week by Lucy, Shut Down, and others by giving coin for Victory cards, I think.
Secret Quest: Lol. Must have been entered just in case no one's paying attention. People like strong cards, but voters haven't completely fallen off the cliff, yet.
Obelix: This is silly. Just put Woodcutter in the Kingdom, instead, please.
Xenophobe: At the very least, the +$5 should be conditional on discarding. As it is, the discarding is just not enough of a penalty most of the time.
Gravitar: This card scares me a little with alt VP games. Might be okay, but I think I would rather vote for something else.
Vanguard: Way too strong.

One Shots, Attacks, and all the Rest

Quote
Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

Looks like a refinement from last week. A baby Treasure Map; same mechanic, but less swingy. I liked it then. I like it better now.

Quote
Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

Appropriately priced version of Jungle Hut. Cleaner and simpler, too. I like Missle Command a lot better. As far as sifters go, I don't like Galaxian or Moon Patrol. They are also slightly strong, but not overly so, like some of the other cards submitted.

Asteroids: The externality may offset the power of this card, but I would be more sure of that if it read "each other player MAY choose one." Don't really like it, anyway.
Pac-Man: This one shot doesn't work for me. Feels like it should be a Treasure.
Defender: We had better versions of cards very similar to this in earlier contests. They didn't win, either.
Road Runner: Fool's Gold doesn't need to be made any stronger or more buyable in any more kingdoms than it already is.
Star Raiders: Is there a typo here? There has to be....
Space Invaders: So when I Throne Room an Action, it's like I also play a Grand Market and a Silver? Way too good. Unless it means "exactly one time," etc. In which case that should be clarified, and I don't really think it fits the spirit of the plus buy competition.
Ikari Warriors: Too strong.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #95 on: September 28, 2012, 11:15:17 am »
0

Quote
Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.

The best of the bunch. Neat defense. Second turn is really strong though. @OneArmedMan: This is more than a Worker's Village: It's like a +2 Cards, +2 Actions, +1 Buy card. That's more than a $5 card. I like the idea of another duration Village, but honestly, I would have liked to see the benefits a little more spread out. If it actually was a Worker's Village on your next turn (just +1 Action, +1 Buy), it would have been better balanced.
Here is what I said: This is a terminal defense. Compared to Lighthouse, which is a slightly delayed Silver, this is a terminal that delays 2 cards and gives you a Worker's Village next turn. Its defense is also weaker. It is like the middle ground between Haven and Tactician. I think this card combines an element of nearly every card in Seaside, hah! seems okay.

To clarify: When you play this on a turn, you get -1action and -2 card immediately (counting one that you set aside). The next turn, you get +1 action, +1 Buy, and +2 cards (the set aside card and an additional card), the effect of a Haven and the (worth about 7) +2 cards, +2 actions, +1 Buy card. Things that benefit you: a delayed village, haven, and delayed +buy, and the lighthouse-like defense. You can also think of it as Tactician that only requires one discarded card, but gives 3 less cards on the following turn. The more I think about it, it seems less like a $4 card and more like a $5, but I would like to try it out.
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #96 on: September 28, 2012, 11:42:06 am »
0

ok. I misinterpreted what you meant by "delays two cards." Even so, I do think if it had more of a Village feel than a Tac feel, I would like it better. I did say it was the best duration card submitted, so I hope I conveyed that I do like it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 11:43:43 am by Polk5440 »
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Guy Srinivasan

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #97 on: September 28, 2012, 12:44:14 pm »
0

(one of these is mine)

Sky Diver
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.
Simple and almost a required buy if there's no trashing. I like it.

Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
Too weak IMO. Market is one of the weakest 5-cost cards. At 5 I think it'd be fairly strong.

Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.
Like a Bridge that comes with +$1 and more Buys as long as you diversify? Or like a terminal Gold that gives you +$1 if you happen to buy two things. Feels fun and not unbalanced.

Asteroids
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.
There's a lot going on here. My guess is the choice of +$3 or +3 Cards makes this too strong, but the benefit to the other players is pretty high. I'm not sure what the power level of this card is. I like the forced discard after your opponents trash or discard their worst card.

Egg Catch
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.
This card feels too strong at $3. It doesn't have as many tricks as Tactician, of course, but it's such an important T1/T2 buy...

Millipede
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.
Nope. One or three is funny, but I don't like how this makes me feel. Trade Route has upside, this is a super-awkward trasher that doesn't make me want to buy Copper to fuel it or anything.

Pole Position
$5 - Treasure
Choose one:
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.
Templating issues. Silver with upside, I'm not sure the "choose 2" will really come up much...

Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.
This card feels too strong. Merchant Ship at 5 with +1 Buy on each turn had to be nerfed, it was better than Wharf. This loses +$1 on each turn but lets you trash... which actually makes this much more balanced, now that I think about it, since you'll run out of things you want to trash and this will start colliding a lot more due to trashing.

Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.
I guess early on you'll most always get a Woodcutter out of this, sometimes only +$1, and occasionally +$4. I'd want to see just how often 3 Copper comes up, it needs to be fairly frequently for this card to work. It's nice that the more you get +$4 the faster you start getting +$1.

Mario Bros
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place [This Card] in play for the player to your right.
I don't like cards like this. I think it's deceptively weak, which is fun. On the turn you play it, you get +$3, +1 Buy, -1 Action, -1 Card, and you put a card in your opponent's hand that says +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, Trash this. And your opponent gets this card. Edit: others are reading this as staying in play forever, moving around the table. I don't think that was the original intent. Maybe we'll find out.

Combat
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.
Worthless without a Village, nah.

Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.
Kind of like a Bad Feast with a +Buy? Or you can gain Gold + Copper. Topdecking a Silver with another Silver gained isn't bad. I think this needs way more payoff though.

Outlaw
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.
Like a worse Market usually. Feels weak, not enough payoff for stacking them, just like Market.

Pac-Man
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.
This is close to just being a Spoils with +Buy. Fairly costed at 4, probably.

Jungle Hunt
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.
Um. No. Edit: Others point out this probably meant the cards to be discarded from hand. In that case, I think it's a little too angsty for me.

Krull
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once [This Card] leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)
TEXT. Actually this feels like the best implementation of the long-term card-cost-changing effect I've seen yet. I think it's close to balanced, too. Like the Overpowered Merchant Ship with -$1, and some interesting help and hurt to opponents.

Battlezone
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a [This Card] in play are unaffected by the attack.
This gives you a permanent +Buy and Attack defense? With a bit of choice about the permanent bit. Feels too strong, like I have to buy one. Edit: I completely misread this card. :)

Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.
Too strong. It's the Overpowered Merchant Ship with a nice attack tacked on (and you lose $1 for every card after the first you buy).

Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.
This feels fairly better than Silver in the opening. What happens after the reveal? Discard, put back, choose?

Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)
Hmm. Hard to evaluate. The +Buy fits very well. This becomes dead in a lot of decks a lot of the time. I think it ends up fairly weak? But in cost reduction engines this can be silly good. "Also, I buy all the Woodcutters for +$20".

Secret Quest
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.
Woodcutter with upside. I'm in. Simple and strictly better than Woodcutter, but hey, Woodcutter could use a boost. This much of a boost, though? Villages with +Buy make this amazing.

Adventure
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.
Choose Woodcutter or Village? A choice between two very different effects is definitely worth the +$1 cost... solid card, not sparkly but solid.

Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.
This is a good Gardens card? I can't decide whether it's better or worse than Hamlet, and I think it may be worse.

Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.
Woodcutter with a tiny, tiny upside, for 4. No thanks.

Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.
Slightly worse and slightly better than a non-stackable Market? I like cards like this. Simple and not quite what you wish it was every time you buy it.

Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.
Worth buying in some decks if it's the only source of +Buy, otherwise very weak. +Card is in general much better than +Buy.

Surround
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.
Too strong even if you don't have other sources of +Buy, and then way too strong. Compare to Overpowered Merchant Ship and Wharf...

Xenophobe
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 [This Card].
Initial reaction: sweet concept! Now let's see if I like it on reflection... yeah I still do. This feels like a fun card, and it's simple!

Street Racer
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.
Fun. Maybe a bit weak? but potentially a nice engine-building helper.

Road Runner
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.
"An" information leak! Sorry, I don't like adding Fool's Gold.

Star Raiders
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.
Almost a $2 non-terminal Feast... sometimes better. Definitely too strong.

Quadrun
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.
I'd buy it if there were no other trashing available. Otherwise if you're buying this for the +$ then you're either making a mistake or you've built an interesting engine.

Space Invaders
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.
Is this a Throne Room that gives +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$4, and has choices? This seems really good. Like a lot. Way better than King's Court even, 'cause when are you King's Courting a card that's better than +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, and +$4? Or should the bonuses not stack? In which case this is either a terminal Gold with a +Action and a +Buy, or it's about half a King's Court... yeah so I guess the bonuses aren't meant to stack, that's much more reasonable. I don't like the AP I predict this inducing.

E.T.
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.
Fun. The second and onwards are a cheap Gold if you buy two things, the first just hands you a +Buy and that's it. Feels a little weak but I'd try it out.

Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.
You only want one or two of these, nothing about them stacks well. Of course I'd pick one up if there weren't other +Buys, but I would never really be happy about it.

Galaxian
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.
Feels like it might be too strong? What are the T3/T4 options if you buy Silver? You'll play this and have a 6-card hand. If you have 2+ Estates, you can gain a Silver and a 5-6 cost card, which is very good. If you don't, then you have $5-6, which is an okay result. The worst is getting Estate and 5x Copper... everything else is quite strong. How likely is that? About 14%? I think this might be a must-buy.

Moon Patrol
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.
Amazing engine lubricant. Maybe too amazing? I think too amazing, yes. One of its default uses makes it read "+4 Actions, +1 Buy, Cycle your deck some".

Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.
This is better than Market. Sure, it gives somewhat less +$ overall, but the added variance is definitely worth it IMO. Kinda like how Native Village is more often useful than Village, I think.

Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.
There has never been a better Gardens enabler. I love cards like this. Like Hoard. That said, I'm not convinced this card won't enable silly rushes even without Gardens on the board.

Ikari Warriors
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.
Super strong. Wow, so strong. Sure, the Curses eventually run out, and then this is merely a pretty good card?

Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.
Interesting! Woodcutter but you have to Bureaucrat yourself and you get +$1... I think this would be fine at 3-cost.

Vanguard
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.
Wait, so I can just gain a Copper and a Gold off of this? Strong opening, rapidly gets mediocre and then bad. Er... hold on, I can actually grab 2x Copper and 2x Gold. Pretend it did nothing else, that's like two Caches. Too good.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 12:45:58 pm by Guy Srinivasan »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #98 on: September 28, 2012, 12:47:18 pm »
0

@OAM, you have two evaluations that are very wrong.

Sky Diver is not usually better than Market.  Since you have to discard a Copper for the cantrip bit, that +$2 is actually +$1.  It's usually about the same as a Market.

But sometimes it's better, as well. The Copper discard and $2 do not cancel and become +$1. Discarding the Copper allows you to draw more cards with Library cards (as noted by others) or doesn't really matter (like with Minion). There's supposed to be a big gap between $4 and $5 and I'm not seeing it here.

"+$2, discard a copper" effectively becomes +$1 though.  Some other times when Sky Diver is better include when Grand Market is available (don't want Copper) and when you don't need the cantrip (i.e. prefer Woodcutter).

Sometimes it is worse -- you might want to keep your Copper for Bank, or Coppersmith (or Aqua Vitae), or as fodder for Stables or Spice Merchant or Moneylender.  Sometimes the hand size reduction hurts, for Cellar or any number of other reasons.  And what about cases where you want to make a slick Treasure-free engine?  Market works brilliantly but Sky Diver would not.  It even fails if all you want is to trash out the starting Copper and only have the bigger Treasures.

But my point in the end was that this is, on average, the same as Market.  We can keep spinning edge cases, but I am indeed in the camp that this is too strong for $4 (and too weak for $5).  If we keep talking about it, though, I might end up thinking it's OK.  It does lose its cantrippiness if you get rid of your Copper...  :-X
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #99 on: September 28, 2012, 12:58:08 pm »
0

I use the word broken hyperbolically.  I come from a fighting game community where the 7th best character in the game might spam his second best move 4 times in a row and we all yell broken until the word has little meaning left.
The +2 cards village is not broken, it's just rather strong.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #100 on: September 28, 2012, 01:10:16 pm »
0

Quote
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an [This Card].
"An" information leak!

Hahaha.  Believe it or not, I did spend a couple of moments considering changing that to "a".  I left it as "an", though, because I knew I'd forget to change it back.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2012, 01:33:24 pm »
0

My entry this week was a joke but I still twitch a little when people criticize it.  I don't know if I can wait until the results to explain the joke!

Hint: it is a musical joke.




OK, trying to figure out who I actually want to vote for.  Nothing stands out to me this week (at least not in a good way) so I have to be a little less critical.  Taking into account opinions posted by others (especially issues I didn't notice the first time through, e.g. Secret Quest being strictly better than Woodcutter), these are my favourites (none of these are mine -- mine is a joke entry).  (Here, have some more parentheses.)


Sky Diver -- Ugh.  I hate that I am starting to like this.  The dependency on Copper is starting to make me think that this might actually be OK, since it would not function in an engine without Copper.  Hummmm.  But it would fit in just fine in a BM deck, so it's probably still no good.  Ahhhhhhh.

Othello -- a little boring but inoffensive.

Outlaw -- I think this may be my favourite.  It looks rather weak, but not every card has to be killer strong.  It also stacks with itself in a decent way.

Night Driver -- $4 is too cheap for it but I like the concept.  If it won, I would really suggest testing start at $5.  It is weaker than Market (in that it needs a discard) but it is more flexible (second discard to Village with bonus +Buy).

Missile Command -- boring but inoffensive.




OK, yeah, Outlaw is the most interesting to me.  GO OUTLAW!
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2012, 02:00:36 pm »
0

One of these cards is mine and I just had to point something out.  :P

Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
Too weak IMO. Market is one of the weakest 5-cost cards. At 5 I think it'd be fairly strong.

It can't really be a $5 because of Market. I can imagine enough situations where you'd want this over Gold, especially in a deck that's trimmed its Copper count.

Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.
This card feels too strong. Merchant Ship at 5 with +1 Buy on each turn had to be nerfed, it was better than Wharf. This loses +$1 on each turn but lets you trash... which actually makes this much more balanced, now that I think about it, since you'll run out of things you want to trash and this will start colliding a lot more due to trashing.

The trash not being forced, it doesn't ever really become awkward unless you have multiples, and even then you can just trash copies to each other.

Pengo
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.
I guess early on you'll most always get a Woodcutter out of this, sometimes only +$1, and occasionally +$4. I'd want to see just how often 3 Copper comes up, it needs to be fairly frequently for this card to work. It's nice that the more you get +$4 the faster you start getting +$1.

If you go Pengo/$4 card, and if my math is correct (which it might not be), then playing Pengo on turn 3 will net you $4 a little over 21% of the time.

Casino
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.
This feels fairly better than Silver in the opening. What happens after the reveal? Discard, put back, choose?

It's just like Wishing Well: the card remains on top. Revealing doesn't actually move anything from anywhere, like how Moat just stays put in your hand after each reveal.

Obelix
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.
Woodcutter with a tiny, tiny upside, for 4. No thanks.

How many cards would you have to net over the course of a game to make this better than Noman Camp? Camp has that initial buying boost, but this can easily grab an extra 3 cards over the course of a game, more in kingdoms with dual-type cards. It might want +2 Buys to help facilitate that, though.

Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.
Interesting! Woodcutter but you have to Bureaucrat yourself and you get +$1... I think this would be fine at 3-cost.

The jump from providing $2 and providing $3 is a big one. This is basically a cheaper Mandarin part of the time. $3 seems ridiculously low for that sort of effect.

One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #103 on: September 28, 2012, 02:11:04 pm »
0

Joust
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.
Interesting! Woodcutter but you have to Bureaucrat yourself and you get +$1... I think this would be fine at 3-cost.

The jump from providing $2 and providing $3 is a big one. This is basically a cheaper Mandarin part of the time. $3 seems ridiculously low for that sort of effect.
Mandarin is great when you have colliding terminals. This just hopes you have a victory card, doesn't get rid of it (like Baron), and gives you no money otherwise.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #104 on: September 28, 2012, 02:14:09 pm »
0

Quick note:  "Pole Position" had some extraneous text in it.  There was an extra use of "Choose one:" in there that was not in the card originally submitted.  I fixed it in the ballot post.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #105 on: September 28, 2012, 02:21:22 pm »
+1

Quote
Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)

What happens if I buy Throne Room?  I buy it, it looks for an Action card in my hand and I have to play that action twice, doesn't it?  Except it doesn't according to the rules clarification?  Space-time continuum is disrupted IMO.

The original submission actually included further clarifications that buying Throne Room would result in choosing a card from your hand and playing it twice.  I thought this was an unnecessary clarification and so removed it.

But yeah, buying a Throne Room would mean playing it, and resolving Throne Room's on-play behavior requires playing other cards.  Presumably if you bought a Cultist, you'd play it, and then be able to play other Cultists from your hand.  Because playing those other Cultists is really just a part of resolving the first one.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #106 on: September 28, 2012, 02:30:21 pm »
0

Quote
Breakout
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

Do they cost more for everyone, or just me?

The author confirms the cards cost $1 more for everyone.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #107 on: September 28, 2012, 03:29:25 pm »
0

I think I hate Gravitar the least.  Maybe even like it.  After you get two provinces, I think you could go for some really cool fancy Duchy rush thing if you transition into Gravitar.  Like, you use double estate to buy a third Province.  Then you start buying a bunch of cheap Duchies, picking up coppers with bonus buys to keep things swimming.  You pile out the Duchies and then you start just buying nothing but Estates.  Meanwhile your opponent's thin deck, because that's the situation you'd wanna do this in, it's choking on itself.  I've won with 3 provinces before, it's tricky but it's gratifying.
It's definitely balanced.
Yeah. Gravitarrr.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #108 on: September 29, 2012, 04:25:59 pm »
+2

Here are some comments, by category. Submitted cards are getting stronger and less fixable by a price change, which leaves me less to like. I also don't like as many of the mechanics this time around. I submitted a card to the contest.
...

Polk5440 does the best reviews of these. They're not as long, quote some cards but not others, and are well organized. I don't always agree with the opinions, but they definitely deserve some respect. Keep up the good work!
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #109 on: September 30, 2012, 12:18:20 am »
+1

Wow, thanks for the compliment!
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #110 on: September 30, 2012, 03:44:34 pm »
0

Quote
Human Cannonball
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your [This Card] mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

Aha.  This reminds me so, so much of my $2 card submission.  It reminds me of the original concept, in fact, before I did some tweaking.  And I will indeed expound on this.

A while back, I thought it would be interesting if a set of cards used shared tokens.  The best concept card I came up with was one that would exchange those tokens for +$1.  That's how I eventually created my $2 Card submission, Plunder.

By the name "Plunder" you might surmise that it relates to Pirate Ship.  And so it did.  The original concept used Coin tokens as well, with the intent that it could combo with PS.  This is also why I made the token return worth $2, because otherwise it was always better NOT to return the tokens, because Pirate Ship was worth just as much without powering itself down.

But I didn't keep it on Coin token.  Why did I change it?  Look at the wording for Pirate Ship.  It says, "+$1 per Coin token you've taken with Pirate Ships this game".

The implications are subtle, but important. 

First, since it specifies tokens "taken with Pirate Ships", it means that Coin tokens gained by some other means (like a fan card) would not count towards Pirate Ship.  This already makes tracking difficult, as you have to keep some of your Coin tokens separate.

Second, since it specifies "tokens taken" and not "tokens you have", it means that Coin tokens removed by some other means (like a fan card) do not change the amount that PS produces.  Losing tokens doesn't change how many you've taken!  So that confounds tracking even more.

Anyway, I am slightly miffed at how similar this card is to my own earlier concept, so I probably won't vote for it.  I do realize, of course, that this concept is simple enough that independent minds could easily come up with it, so no cries of copying.  The designer didn't think enough about the implications of using Coin tokens though! ;)

Dude, it uses a different mat. Not that I'm defending the card (not even sure if I like it or not), but it says to put the tokens on the [This Card] mat, not the Pirate Ship mat.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #111 on: September 30, 2012, 04:53:02 pm »
+1

I decided to only comment on cards that I like this time around. One of which is mine. I mostly liked Market variants this time around. Otherwise, most of the cards were very strong to too strong or had other weirdness issues.

BTW, I'm not a fan of the "do X if you have unused Buys" clauses. They just seem a bit weird.

Othello
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

This card may actually be a bit weak for a $6 card. It acts as a Market that guarantees an Action or Treasure draw. But, Market is on the weaker side of $5, and the gap in strength between $5 and $6 is pretty large - I don't often see picking one of these up over a Gold. But, it's pretty obviously better than Market, so you can't exactly have it at $5. I do like the card, but it would probably be ok to weak as costed.

Dig Dug
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

This seems pretty strong as an opener, and weak after that. Without the trashing, this is obviously weak. The trashing makes it pretty strong - you can use early buys to trash Estates, and could even buy a Copper to trash an Estate. Since it's duration, it can trash Estates on two consecutive turns, which is very strong. Anyway, I sort of like it, but do worry about its strength as a trasher.

Night Driver
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.

So, there are three options here. With no discarding, the approx. cost is $2, discarding 1 card is like a discarding Market, so a strongish $4, and discarding 2 it is a Worker's Village + $1 + 1 Buy + 2 Discards, probably also a strongish $4. So, since you get options that are pretty strong, this might be better at $5 than at $4, but may be ok as-is. I like the simplicity and the options.

Crossbow
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

Market + discard is probably a strongish $4, as I said with Night Driver. But, unlike Lab + discard, I'm not sure it is unworkable, considering Lab is much stronger than Market. You really gain only the +Buy over Oasis, which doesn't seem like a huge addition. The on-gain makes it a bit stronger, since you get it a reshuffle earlier. But, I think it's probably balanced and a fun and simple card.

Missile Command
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

This is probably fine. I'm not sure how strong the first option is - definitely worse than Warehouse. The second option is basically Market Square. So, both are weak, but maybe having a choice makes this an ok $3? We could use more $3 cards, so I'm fine with that.

Note: This could read: +1 Card, +1 Action, Choose one: +1 card and discard 2 cards, or +1 Buy. Maybe this is a bit simpler, maybe not.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #112 on: September 30, 2012, 06:10:01 pm »
0

Dude, it uses a different mat. Not that I'm defending the card (not even sure if I like it or not), but it says to put the tokens on the [This Card] mat, not the Pirate Ship mat.

Good point.  My bad!

Edit: fixing a typo like a day later.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 11:05:46 am by eHalcyon »
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2012, 09:14:45 am »
0

Quote
Space War
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of [This Card] from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

Up to $6 total or up to $6 each? I need clarification before I can critique for sure.

I'm told by the author that each card may cost up to $6.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #114 on: October 01, 2012, 08:37:55 pm »
0

These are my favorites:
Quote
Centipede
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.
I agree with others that naming all the types probably isn't necessary, but I do rather like the idea, where it technically decreases the cost of every card you purchase by one assuming you only purchase one copy of every card. The combo with Highway and other cost-reducers is obvious. It seems like this would be good for building up some particularly obtuse engines with lots of parts (and those are my favorite kind of decks) or one could grab a Copper to practically turn it into +$4, but that might be a weak use for it.
Quote
Phoenix
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)
This is interesting and I'd like to see how it plays out, but I can't imagine that it would be even decent since you have to buy more copies of the card you want to play (and you can't particularly afford to buy lots of terminal cards) and +1 Buy is an extremely weak effect on a card that doesn't aid you in purchasing any cards. I would like to see this changed into a Woodcutter plus, with some terminal coin and perhaps a reduced cost since playing Action cards in your buy phase often won't lead to much benefit since you mostly have to buy non-terminal actions whose non-terminal aspects will not be of any assistance and card draw is useless at that point. It still might have some clever interactions which would be fun to explore.
Quote
Defender
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.
I like Victory variants, and though the set already has a few, it is practically a sub-theme at this point. The non-terminal buy means this is usually about as useless as an Estate in hand, but it is a vanishing card (in that it provides actions and doesn't draw cards) which would help "draw until you have x cards in hand" cards. And it would also be a welcome sight on a great many tables simply because it has a buy that is easily integrated into an engine.
Quote
Gravitar
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.
This is similar to Centipede, but more focused. I still like gaining coins when buying cards, but I think this is much less interesting since this can only be used to hasten purchasing Victory cards-- which mostly means it would work exceptionally well for Feodum (particularly with that Silver gain) and Silk Road, though its interaction with cost reducers is probably not as bad as Centipede's would be since it doesn't provide you with as many buys as unique cards you purchase. At the same time, the two buys are also hard to use for the same reason that Phoenix's buy has such a hard time, but if you have at least $2, you will be able to buy at least 3 Estates, which is not too shabby for a $3 card.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #115 on: October 03, 2012, 11:44:00 am »
0

Submit your votes via PM to me by Thursday, October 6, 2012, 10am EDT in the following format:

I may have missed a clarification, but is it Thursday... or October 6?  Same applies to the Reaction competition.
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PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #116 on: October 03, 2012, 11:59:14 am »
0

Submit your votes via PM to me by Thursday, October 6, 2012, 10am EDT in the following format:

I may have missed a clarification, but is it Thursday... or October 6?  Same applies to the Reaction competition.

I didn't notice this as well! It's always been on a Thursday EDT deadline though. I submitted mine just now assuming the deadline is Thursday.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #117 on: October 03, 2012, 03:07:31 pm »
0

Uh.  Um.

I guess we ought to go with the later deadline, but it's not the one I intended.
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PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #118 on: October 08, 2012, 08:15:08 am »
0

Patiently waiting for the results...
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #119 on: October 08, 2012, 04:12:42 pm »
0

Maybe rinkworks lost the votes?
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #120 on: October 08, 2012, 07:54:41 pm »
0

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PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #121 on: October 09, 2012, 07:48:00 am »
0

Maybe rinkworks lost the votes?

Hopefully not, but he should be able to check the PM inbox in case he lost the tally.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #122 on: October 09, 2012, 09:20:02 am »
0

Sorry, I forgot last week that Monday was a holiday, and I was basically offline the whole day.  Results and new ballots coming today for sure.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #123 on: October 09, 2012, 11:07:45 am »
+3

The results for the +Buy challenge are (finally) in!  The objective was:

Quote
Create a card that offers at least +1 Buy each time it is played.  The card need not always give +Buy, but it must always (rare edge cases excepted) be possible for the player to choose to get +Buy by playing the card.

I did this challenge in large part to assuage the concerns of many who had noted the relative lack of +Buy in the community set so far.  Those of you who had those concerns may rest easy now:  the votes were spread thin this time around, resulting in a whopping three-way tie for first place.  That means three +Buy cards rejoice in their shared victory and join the set!

Your winners are....

#1 (tie) - Farmers' Market (2) by Jack Rudd with 13 points (Othello)
$6 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card.  Put that card into your hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

#1 (tie) - Flea Market by Polk5440 with 13 points (Crossbow)
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Discard a card.
--
When you gain this, if at least one supply pile is empty, you may put this on your deck.

#1 (tie) - Barge by NoMoreFun with 13 points (Dig Dug)
$4 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Buy
+$1
--
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand.


Two of the winning cards are Market variants.  People guessed the name for one of them -- well, what else could you possibly call it?  It's a strong card, but the price tag means it needs just the right deck.  The other Market is an Oasisized Market, which provides +Buy, a little cash, and a little filtering, but drops you down in hand-size.  Unlike Oasis, whose added value to your deck is usually directly correlated with the percentage of junk cards in it, this one is trickier to figure, as you need to also take into account your need for that +Buy.

The third winner is something entirely different:  the set's first Duration card.  It offers +Buy on two separate turns, like Wharf does, but without the extra vanilla bonuses that automatically make that +Buy an important asset.  That's appropriate for a $4 card -- you have to work to make it work for you.  But it could be great for setting up an engine, as it provides the light trashing you need to get it started, then the +Buy that makes it lucrative afterward.  It's also a soft-counter to Curses.  You can't trash incoming Curses, but an incoming Curse will allow you to get rid of one you'd gotten previously.

Just a 1-point drop to the next card in the list.  As I said before, the votes were pretty spread out this time.


#4 - Forest Village by yuma with 12 points (Adventure)
$4 - Action
Look at the bottom card of your draw pile; you may discard it. If you do, +$2 and +1 Buy. If you don't; put it back on bottom, +2 Actions, and +1 Card.

#5 - Exchange by Guy Srinivasan with 10 points (Outlaw)
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a Treasure you have not yet bought this turn, +$1.

#6 - Fishmonger by Schneau with 9 points (Night Driver)
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+$1
You may discard up to 2 Cards. +1 Action and +1 Buy per card discarded.

#7 - Scrapper by dnkywin with 8 points (Gravitar)
$3 - Action
+2 Buys
Gain a Silver.
--
While this card is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +$3.

#8 - Foundry by RobertJ with 7 points (Quadrun)
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +$2 for each card trashed.

#9 (tie) - Machinist by RichardNixon with 6 points (Phoenix)
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, Action cards you buy are immediately played.
--
(Rules clarification: This would allow you to play action cards during the buy phase, but only those you are purchasing. This is not optional and does not require leftover actions.)

#9 (tie) - Gallery by Rush Clasic with 6 points (Obelix)
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
--
When you discard this from play, if you gained at least 1 Treasure card, 1 Action card, and 1 Victory card this turn, draw an additional card during this turn's Clean-up phase.

#11 (tie) - Tornado by popsofctown with 5 points (Star Raiders)
$2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing exactly $2 more.
--
When you discard this from play, trash it if you have any unused Buys.

#11 (tie) - Dweller by nopawnsintended with 5 points (Space War)
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
You may trash this and another copy of Dweller from your hand.  If you do, gain two differently named cards costing up to $6, placing the card with the lowest cost on top of your deck.

#11 (tie) - Prince by Powerman with 5 points (Missile Command)
$3 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one: +2 Cards and discard 2 cards; or +1 Card, +1 Buy.

#14 (tie) - Poseur by PenPen with 4 points (Street Racer)
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.

#14 (tie) - Farmer's Market (1) by DWetzel with 4 points (Sky Diver)
$4 - Action
+$2
+1 Buy
Discard a Copper, or reveal a hand with no Copper.  If you did discard a Copper, +1 Card, +1 Action.

#14 (tie) - Gambler by Kirian with 4 points (Pengo)
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top three cards of your deck.  If all three are identical, +$4.  If exactly two are identical, +$2.  If there are no duplicates, +$1.

#14 (tie) - Stock Market by Qvist with 4 points (Human Cannonball)
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Choose one: Put a Coin token on your Stock Market mat; or remove any number of Coin tokens and get +$1 per removed token.

#14 (tie) - Holy Day by Saucery with 4 points (Battlezone)
$4 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, return it to your hand and gain +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
--
When a player plays an Attack card, they may discard a Treasure card. If they do not, players who have a Holy Day in play are unaffected by the attack.

#19 (tie) - Bath House by Graystripe77 with 3 points (Millipede)
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

#19 (tie) - Merchant by Mecherath with 3 points (E.T.)
$5 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
When you buy a card you may discard this.  If you do, +$3.

#19 (tie) - Foreign Merchant by Fragasnap with 3 points (Centipede)
$6 - Action
+$3
--
While this is in play, when you gain an Action, Treasure, or Victory card that you have not gained this turn: +1 Buy, +$1.

#19 (tie) - Magistrate by Tables with 3 points (Asteroids)
$5 - Action-Attack
Choose one: +$3 or +3 Cards.
Each other player chooses one: they trash a card from their hand, or draw a card and discard a card from their hand.
Choose one: +1 buy and each other player gains a Copper; OR trash a card from your hand and each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a card.

#23 (tie) - Champion by One Armed Man with 2 points (Xenophobe)
$6 - Action
+1 Buy
+$5
Discard 3 cards or 1 Champion.

#23 (tie) - Fortune Hunter by Tejayes with 2 points (Vanguard)
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Gold if you have no Treasures in play. Otherwise, gain a Silver if you have no Golds in play.

#23 (tie) - Ark by Adrienaline with 2 points (Pac-Man)
$4 - Action
+1 Action
+3 Buys
+$3
--
If you have unused buys at the end of the turn you play this card, trash this card.

#23 (tie) - Ferry by Sakako with 2 points (Krull)
$5 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
On your next turn: +1 Buy.
Choose two non-empty piles from the supply. Place a Plus token on one and a Minus token on the other.
--
While this is in play, cards from supply piles with Plus tokens on them cost $1 more and cards from supply piles with Minus tokens on them cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0). When this leaves play, remove one Plus token and one Minus token from supply piles.
--
(Rules clarification: The maximum change in price is $1, even if there are multiple Plus or Minus tokens on a pile. If there are both Plus and Minus tokens on a pile, there is no change. If you play this card with a multiplier such as Throne Room or King's Court, there will be tokens left on piles once Ferry leaves play, but if nobody has one in play, the tokens will do nothing.)

#23 (tie) - Exhibition Hall by Fuu with 2 points (Defender)
$3 - Action-Victory
+1 Action
+1 Buy
--
Worth 1 VP
--
When you buy this, if this is the first card bought this turn, +1 Buy.

#23 (tie) - Jeweler by werothegreat with 2 points (Combat)
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, whenever you play an Action, +$1.

#23 (tie) - Great Buy by Bella Cullen with 2 points (Casino)
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck.  If it is a Ruins, Curse, or a Copper, put it into your hand.

#23 (tie) - Monopoly by Drab Emordnilap with 2 points (Breakout)
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+$3
+1 Buy
--
While this is in play, cards cost $1 more.

#31 (tie) - Tavern by Michaelf7777777 with 1 point (Surround)
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Buy
+$1
--
At the end of your Buy phase, set aside one card from your deck for every unused buy face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.

#31 (tie) - Royal Chambers by angrybirds with 1 point (Space Invaders)
$6 - Action
Reveal an Action card from your hand, play it up to three times.
If you play it once: +1 Buy, +$3.
If you play it twice: +1 Action, +1 Card, +$1.
If you play it thrice: trash the Action card.

#31 (tie) - Art Gallery by Robz888 with 1 point (Secret Quest)
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
When you play this, +$1 per Buy you have.

#31 (tie) - Troubadours by eHalcyon with 1 point (Road Runner)
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an Troubadours.
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.

#31 (tie) - Bartering Chip by jotheonah with 1 point (Pole Position)
$5 - Treasure
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

#31 (tie) - Metropolis by PurplePotato with 1 point (Moon Patrol)
$3 - Action
+1 Buy
Discard any number of cards. For each card discarded this way, +1 Card, +1 Action.

#31 (tie) - Surveyor by Archetype with 1 point (Joust)
$4 - Action
+1 Buy
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$3.

#31 (tie) - Marauder by ignorentmen with 1 point (Ikari Warriors)
$5 - Action-Attack
+1 Buy
+$3
Discard one card; if you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
--
While this is in play, if you buy an Attack card; play it immediately.

#31 (tie) - Master Merchant by jamespotter with 1 point (Galaxian)
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards. Reveal your hand. If you have 2 or less treasures in it, +$3 and gain a silver.

#31 (tie) - Escrow by Davio with 1 point (Egg Catch)
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 Cards
Set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand face up on top of this card.
During the buy phase of your next turn: +1 Buy and play the set aside cards in any order.

#41 (tie) - Vagabond by Buggy with 0 points (Mario Bros)
$2 - Action-Duration
+$3
+1 Buy
At the start of your turn: +$1.
--
During your Clean Up phase, place Vagabond in play for the player to your right.

#41 (tie) - Larder by Nicrosil with 0 points (Jungle Hunt)
$3 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard 2 cards. If both cards discarded were Actions or Treasures, +1 Card.
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Qvist

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #124 on: October 09, 2012, 11:19:24 am »
0

I'm glad that Dig Dug aka Barge won, very interesting idea. Congrats NoMoreFun.
On the other hand I'm very surprised that variants of existing cards (Farming Village + Market, Oasis + Treasury + Market) were voted so often, I didn't like them so much, although the When-gain effect of Flea Market makes it at least more interesting.

PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #125 on: October 09, 2012, 11:29:23 am »
0

Congrats to Jack Rudd, Polk5440 and NoMoreFun! We now have 3 +buy cards. Awesome.

A question about Barge however, as I didn't vote for it because my understanding was that you can gain-trash as many cards as you would like, while it's put in play? It felt like there's lots of opportunity where you can manipulate your hand with the right combination. But I do like the soft-counter reaction as a duration thing.
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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #126 on: October 09, 2012, 11:32:20 am »
0

Congrats to the winners - I voted for all three! I am very happy to have these as +Buys in our set. :)
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #127 on: October 09, 2012, 11:43:26 am »
0

So, who can decipher my joke?
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #128 on: October 09, 2012, 11:45:06 am »
0

A question about Barge however, as I didn't vote for it because my understanding was that you can gain-trash as many cards as you would like, while it's put in play? It felt like there's lots of opportunity where you can manipulate your hand with the right combination.

The while-in-play effect does certainly work for as many cards as you gain, but you're still limited by how many cards you can gain in the first place.  With +Buy, that does mean you can buy two Coppers at minimum, but doing that undermines whatever deck-thinning you hoped to accomplish.  So it's really more of an sneaky upgrader (like Rats) than a trasher.

As for manipulating your hand, you can't add cards to it, only remove cards, so I guess you could sneakily activate a Menagerie that wouldn't otherwise have activated, but that seems like something you ought to be able to do if you're clever enough.

Maybe there's something I'm missing, though.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #129 on: October 09, 2012, 11:46:17 am »
0

Well, Watchtower lets you trash cards without putting Coppers in your deck, but that's pretty trivial.
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PenPen

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2012, 11:58:57 am »
0

A question about Barge however, as I didn't vote for it because my understanding was that you can gain-trash as many cards as you would like, while it's put in play? It felt like there's lots of opportunity where you can manipulate your hand with the right combination.

The while-in-play effect does certainly work for as many cards as you gain, but you're still limited by how many cards you can gain in the first place.  With +Buy, that does mean you can buy two Coppers at minimum, but doing that undermines whatever deck-thinning you hoped to accomplish.  So it's really more of an sneaky upgrader (like Rats) than a trasher.

As for manipulating your hand, you can't add cards to it, only remove cards, so I guess you could sneakily activate a Menagerie that wouldn't otherwise have activated, but that seems like something you ought to be able to do if you're clever enough.

Maybe there's something I'm missing, though.

Right...it doesn't seem that crazy now that you've explained it (and maybe I misread a word or two). I look forward to seeing this card get some playtime!

Quote
#14 (tie) - Poseur by PenPen with 4 points (Street Racer)
$2 - Action
+1 Buy
All players (including you) reveal a card from their hand. All cards revealed this way cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
--
If you did not buy any copies of the revealed cards, you may put this card on top of your deck.

On my card, it seems like most people liked the idea but it was too weak. It was the original intention for everyone to reveal the card, but as some mentioned, it's mostly revolving around you because the other players will reveal a useless card like Copper or Curse or whatnot. That's halfway intentional, which is why I made the cost so low.

I think that if you combine this with some discarding attacks it'd be much more useful, but Poseur could use some tuneups though. Maybe +$1, but that'd make this a Bridge-lite.

I also wanted to name the card "Wannabe" as in "all the other cool kids got their cool cards and I want one too" but that sounds too modern for the theme.  :P
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 12:00:28 pm by PenPen »
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jotheonah

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #131 on: October 09, 2012, 12:06:51 pm »
0

#31 (tie) - Bartering Chip by jotheonah with 1 point (Pole Position)
$5 - Treasure
If this is the only Treasure you play this turn, choose 2. Otherwise, choose 1: +$1P; OR +$2; OR +$1, +1 Buy.

Some thoughts on my widely-panned card and first submission ever (talk about joining the game way too late.)

The apparently problematic "If this is..." clause was a last-minute addition to make the card more interesting. I see the problems now, I still think there's a way to make it work, but whatever.

I basically wanted to create a Swiss Army Treasure. You need a +buy? It's a Copper with a +buy. You need a Potion? It's a Copper and a Potion (not as good as a Potion since it won't help your Apothecaries or Alchemists). You don't need any of those things? Well, you spent $5 on a Silver. But you do that with Stash and, sort of, Venture, so that's not such a big deal.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #132 on: October 09, 2012, 12:28:24 pm »
+3

Thanks for the votes everyone. I am so happy to win.

I've been thinking about Barge a lot though, and I'm worried that it could be a bit too strong. It's not "light trashing"; it can trash 2 cards with each play if you just do the regular thing and gain one card every turn, so it can be compared to Ambassador, Remake, Steward and Trading post. Those cards are among the strongest in the game, and I think Barge has an edge over them. It's not going to hurt your hand as badly while you're trashing, since you can space the trashing over 2 hands, and each trashing is optional. The +$1 on each turn means that trashing your opening junk never hurts your buying power; a trait shared with Trading Post. It maintains utility into the late game, like Steward, especially with the +buys in a engine building deck. The duration effect absolutely obliterates cursers (which was intentional), but since it's such a generally useful card anyway, I don't think it's going to have interesting ramifications for the strategy.

We'll see how it playtests, but if it needs nerfing, I would like to suggest;
*Give it a chancellor effect, so it always misses reshuffles (an interesting concept I've been meaning to put on a duration card)
*Replace +$1 with "While this is in play, cards cost $1 less", so that everyone gets a benefit (but only YOU get the buys)
*Make the trashing not optional (which can be extremely dangerous; you could pin yourself if a knight hits your feodum)
*Maybe price bump to $5 if the other nerfs don't work.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 12:34:11 pm by NoMoreFun »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #133 on: October 09, 2012, 01:26:42 pm »
+1

#31 (tie) - Troubadours by eHalcyon with 1 point (Road Runner)
$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+3 Buys
--
In games using this, when you trash a Fool's Gold, you may gain an Troubadours.
--
Setup: Add Fool's Gold as an extra Kingdom card pile.

Troubadours are musicians.  Therefore, this card gets +2 Actions, just like Wandering Minstrel.

This card also has + Buy Buy Buy.

As for why it likes trashing FG...

"Don't wanna be a fool for you / Just another player in your game for two"

 ;)
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #134 on: October 09, 2012, 02:00:31 pm »
0

I won one? Yay!
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #135 on: October 09, 2012, 03:19:55 pm »
0

Wow, I am quite surprised that my entry won this one! rinkworks hinted that Flea Market is "tough to figure out." I agree -- and I created the card! I hope people have fun testing it.

I do find it amusing that this card gets more interesting when one supply pile is empty and Canal (my other winning entry) gets more interesting when two supply piles are empty. I guess I am good at creating those types of cards? I don't know....

Thanks for everyone who voted for mine! And congrats to the other winners.
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Davio

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #136 on: October 09, 2012, 03:23:02 pm »
+1

Well, I'm glad Barge is in there, but I'm not too keen on having two new Markets.
I mean, there's so much room for creativity, to go off the beaten track and we get two cards which are a whole lot similar to cards we already have, just with a new twist.

Congrats to the winners though, but this set is not shaping up to what I would have liked.
If anything, the set is becoming sort of a mix between Base and Hinterlands, no real innovation.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #137 on: October 09, 2012, 03:31:14 pm »
0

As I think popsofctown would put it, it is easy for the contest to devolve into: "I know I can identify that this card is fair for its price because of its combination of simple effects, so I will vote for this" and "This card changes the game so much and it is difficult to determine whether it is good without playtesting it, so I won't vote for it. Better safe than sorry." We are getting balanced cards, but not cards that define new strategies.

Somewhat of a shame, and it is odd that we would include this set of 3 cards and the other set of 2 cards because they got such low vote totals. Also, we just added 5 +1 Buys to the set! That seems like overkill! I may just be bitter that I never won a contest.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #138 on: October 09, 2012, 03:34:44 pm »
0

As I think popsofctown would put it, it is easy for the contest to devolve into: "I know I can identify that this card is fair for its price because of its combination of simple effects, so I will vote for this" and "This card changes the game so much and it is difficult to determine whether it is good without playtesting it, so I won't vote for it. Better safe than sorry." We are getting balanced cards, but not cards that define new strategies.

Somewhat of a shame, and it is odd that we would include this set of 3 cards and the other set of 2 cards because they got such low vote totals. Also, we just added 5 +1 Buys to the set! That seems like overkill! I may just be bitter that I never won a contest.

No, you're bitter because you never won a contest and derivative cards did.

And it is kinda suck that the challenges with less clarity on where the diamonds in the rough are cause more inclusions.  I was worried that would happen with the Alchemy challenge and it did. (possibly not a single alchemy submission was really printworthy, alchemy is really, really hard to design for)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 03:40:30 pm by popsofctown »
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #139 on: October 09, 2012, 03:47:19 pm »
0

I looked through my comments of the winning cards this time (both contests), and I noted that every winner except Barge was uninteresting. I said Barge didn't belong in our set due to strength and similarity to other cards in the set. I am glad that I posted a fan set (shameless plug) because I think that I will have fun testing my cards anyway.

I will post another Combo update, though. I still love the fan set!
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #140 on: October 09, 2012, 03:56:33 pm »
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I looked through my comments of the winning cards this time (both contests), and I noted that every winner except Barge was uninteresting. I said Barge didn't belong in our set due to strength and similarity to other cards in the set. I am glad that I posted a fan set (shameless plug) because I think that I will have fun testing my cards anyway.

I will post another Combo update, though. I still love the fan set!
I'm happier when something like Barge wins than when something boring wins.  Barge is new.  If it's too strong, it's not something inherently wrong with the concept imo, the mandatory chancellor suggestion seems like a very, very good way to ratchet the power down.
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Qvist

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #141 on: October 09, 2012, 04:07:55 pm »
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Well, I'm glad Barge is in there, but I'm not too keen on having two new Markets.
I mean, there's so much room for creativity, to go off the beaten track and we get two cards which are a whole lot similar to cards we already have, just with a new twist.

Congrats to the winners though, but this set is not shaping up to what I would have liked.
If anything, the set is becoming sort of a mix between Base and Hinterlands, no real innovation.

Exactly my thoughts as I said above.

Just take my card, the much talked about "Native Market" that I called Stock Market. There was a lot of talk going on if it is balanced or not at $4 and many seemed to like it.
But it only got 4 votes, that surprised me. Was it obviously too strong for you for the cost, or were you simply afraid that it may or may not be balanced?? Some said that they don't want to vote for a card with a mat which is acceptable.

My reasoning: Native Village costs one less than Village although it might often be stronger because you have a delayed draw, similar to Duration cards that are cheaper because of the delayed effect (yes and the possibility to miss the reshuffle). If I'm going to make a sort of Native Market than a cost at $4 might be fine although there may be many situations were it is superior to Market. Also I think it plays very differently to Market and Native Village although the idea is borrowed. I can't really say that about the winner Market variants, sorry, don't get me wrong and don't take this personal.

Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #142 on: October 09, 2012, 04:37:10 pm »
+2

We are getting balanced cards, but not cards that define new strategies.

I'm happier when something like Barge wins than when something boring wins. 

These types of comments assume that entered cards that define new strategies were actually potentially interesting and potentially good cards.

I would claim (and I think I have in my comments on cards past) that most of the cards entered that had "new strategies" wouldn't actually be any good or much fun. Also, "new mechanic" does not equal "new strategy." Just because a card has something new to it doesn't mean it plays new. A lot of the cards with mats and tokens entered in the contest over the last couple of months are like this: tedious accounting without actually introducing sufficiently new strategy to the game to justify the pain. Also, just because a card doesn't have a new mechanic on it doesn't mean it doesn't play differently or introduce new strategy into certain Kingdoms.

I do think some interesting cards with new mechanics did very well in the past. In the treasure contest, my card Copper Press was way out there but placed fourth. A wacky card could have won if it was good enough. And I think that's a testament to the voting system and the way people voted. In addition, it's kind of hard to claim that "no new mechanic" won. We have some cool cards in the set.

I for one am happy so many people care about balance on the cards and that the contest did not devolve into including a bunch of wacky overpowered cards that you play once, realize are stupid or broken and then throw out, defeating the purpose of putting together a SET.
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Schneau

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #143 on: October 09, 2012, 04:53:54 pm »
+1

We are getting balanced cards, but not cards that define new strategies.

I'm happier when something like Barge wins than when something boring wins. 

These types of comments assume that entered cards that define new strategies were actually potentially interesting and potentially good cards.

I would claim (and I think I have in my comments on cards past) that most of the cards entered that had "new strategies" wouldn't actually be any good or much fun. Also, "new mechanic" does not equal "new strategy." Just because a card has something new to it doesn't mean it plays new. A lot of the cards with mats and tokens entered in the contest over the last couple of months are like this: tedious accounting without actually introducing sufficiently new strategy to the game to justify the pain. Also, just because a card doesn't have a new mechanic on it doesn't mean it doesn't play differently or introduce new strategy into certain Kingdoms.

I do think some interesting cards with new mechanics did very well in the past. In the treasure contest, my card Copper Press was way out there but placed fourth. A wacky card could have won if it was good enough. And I think that's a testament to the voting system and the way people voted. In addition, it's kind of hard to claim that "no new mechanic" won. We have some cool cards in the set.

I for one am happy so many people care about balance on the cards and that the contest did not devolve into including a bunch of wacky overpowered cards that you play once, realize are stupid or broken and then throw out, defeating the purpose of putting together a SET.

I agree 100%. In addition, every set needs some more basic cards - not every card can be as crazy as Grave Robber or Poor House. For example, Sage definitely doesn't "define new strategies" or "introduce new mechanics" - but, it is a fine card that fits the set well.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #144 on: October 09, 2012, 05:03:06 pm »
+2

+1 to Polk5440.

For starters, every set needs some basic utility cards.  Wacky, crazy Dark Ages still has Junk Dealer and Hunting Grounds and Wandering Minstrel.

Secondly, it's a great observation that new mechanics aren't the same thing as new strategies.  A new mechanic can open new strategic opportunities, true, but not necessarily; and it doesn't take a new mechanic to introduce a new strategy.  I wouldn't say Production Village or Tea House (just to pick two random examples) are new mechanics, but they certainly offer new strategic opportunities I'm excited to explore.

Third, although I can absolutely understand and respect the desire and hope to invent new mechanics (on a par with Potions introduced by Alchemy and Ruins introduced by Dark Ages and Platinum/Colony introduced by Prosperity) and would have liked to have seen some of that myself, I think it's an unrealistic expectation that that would occur in a set constructed card by card.  Were we to create a fan expansion along those lines, I think we'd have to have a separate contest for choosing a mechanic and only then designing cards to exploit it.  It's actually somewhat fortunate that we stumbled upon a theme of sorts -- a Copper theme, with Almoner giving cards like Pawn Shop and Aqua Vitae a wider range of strategic opportunity than otherwise.

That said, we do have some cards with new mechanics:  Soothsayer, Pawn Shop, Canal, Harbinger, Missionary, Astrolabe, and Barge all seem like brand new mechanics to me, and a few like Crystal Ball and Gatherer straddle the line.  That isn't so many that the set couldn't accommodate a few more, but too many such cards is arguably worse than too few.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #145 on: October 09, 2012, 06:05:26 pm »
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This was never the ideal way to build a set anyway. I'd just take it for what it is: a collection of interesting ideas. For the set to seem like anything more would take plenty of testing and crafting of different thematic ideas, and you just don't get that in this format. Not that I think this was a bad idea; it was a great exercise!

popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #146 on: October 09, 2012, 06:10:25 pm »
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Maybe everyone wants something different out of this than I do.  I wanted to make high quality cards and card concepts, playtest them until they work, and then mock them up and play with them as much as the official ones to enhance my Dominion experience.

That involves giving unusual, dangerous ideas a chance.  Donald says he has done tons of outtakes that didn't turn out workable, but amongst the outtakes were great, innovative cards. 

Maybe that is not the purpose others have.  Maybe most people are more interested in the fun of sparring in a contest to impress eachother and balance cards well, and want to put all these cards in a glass case in a sticky thread on the forum and just look at them.  And say "hey, I got one in there." 

I'm starting to think most people are more interested in the latter attitude.  The lack of playtesting makes it increasingly obvious.  So I should really be less surprised when a correctly costed incest-baby of Farmer's Village and Market wins a slot in the contest.  It's not a vanilla waste of a blank card, it's a witty pun for the glass case.


EDIT: I was ninja'ed rather poetically by someone who "gets" what the actual point of the contest is, rather than what I misperceived/hoped it was.
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yuma

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #147 on: October 09, 2012, 06:44:04 pm »
+1

I think it is also important to consider what someone else has said before in regard to this forum that constraints inspire creativity. This specific challenge, the + buy, was not a huge constraint... as such there was less creativity and I think that was reflected in the voting.

My submission, which was very vanilla as a woodcutter, village card took 4th and certainly wasn't very creative, but I didn't have to be.

Other challenges of this contest have been more specific with greater constraints and required and received greater creativity.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 06:53:06 pm by yuma »
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenge #17: +Buy!
« Reply #148 on: October 10, 2012, 09:47:49 pm »
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I was ninja'ed rather poetically by someone who "gets" what the actual point of the contest is, rather than what I misperceived/hoped it was.

If you get people who want to playtest the set and leave wide open the ability to adjust, cut, and add cards as needed, the set can be more than what I see it as. Right now, it's nothing more than a collection of cards. (Set-wise, that is. Contest-wise, it's much more.)
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