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Author Topic: Wharf + Fishing Village  (Read 2032 times)

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meow

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Wharf + Fishing Village
« on: September 17, 2012, 08:16:32 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201209/17/game-20120917-050944-c5176435.html

cards in supply: Fishing Village, Hamlet, Haven, Lookout, Moat, Salvager, Shanty Town, Smithy, Spy, and Wharf

Opponent took a Lookout and I didn't.  My opinion was that the coppers help the economy more than get in the way of drawing.

Did I misplay this, or was it just my horrible shuffle luck.  In particular:

   — SpaceSquirrel's turn 9 —
   SpaceSquirrel gets +1 action and +$1 from the Fishing Village.
   SpaceSquirrel plays a Gold and 4 Coppers.
   SpaceSquirrel buys a Province.
   (SpaceSquirrel draws: 3 Wharves, a Gold, and a Copper.)

Those were the last 5 cards in the deck, so rather than have them all miss the shuffle, I didn't play any.  Does that seem like the right move?

The following shuffle also saw no Wharves in the 1st 2 hands.

On turn 13 my 2nd Wharf drew my Salvager and the 3rd Wharf.  Might have been better to Salvage the Wharf or Gold for Double Duchy or maybe Duchy + Prov.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Wharf + Fishing Village
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 09:37:39 am »
+1

Why you lost is probably due to shuffle luck.  You point out most of the big reasons why. 

To be entirely fair, you have a pretty favourable draw up until T6... which that buy should have been a wharf, and T7 should have been wharf/FV (or wharf/wharf if you could afford it).  I generally think that FV/Wharf engines should aim to just get FV/Wharf moreless.  If your deck is going to consistently draw out the 7 copper + whatever FV you have played, it'll probably amass the same $/turn as if you buy a gold and don't have the resources to draw out all your cards.  Once you're at the point of constantly drawing out your deck, then you can move on to Wharf/Gold buys (or Wharf/Terminal silver buys). 

I think lookout was a poor buy, but if your decks are aiming to have 2-3 wharves instead of 5-6... then it isn't horrible. 
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eHalcyon

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Re: Wharf + Fishing Village
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 12:48:06 pm »
+1

When you drew the 3 Wharves, I think you should have played one.  Wharf will cycle fast anyway, so missing the reshuffle isn't as big a deal.  Wharf, as a card-drawing Duration, will tend to miss more reshuffles anyway.
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Davio

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Re: Wharf + Fishing Village
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 03:36:52 pm »
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Maybe evolving as a player may cause some unnatural fear of missing reshuffles.

I mean, you've waited an entire shuffle for your cards already and if you don't play them now you might have to wade through you're deck once more if they're at the end again. So worst case you'll get to play that Wharf only once in 6 turns and at the end of those 6 turns, counting from the start of that reshuffle it was at the end of.

If you play it now, you'll at least get some bonus out of it instead of a couple of turns later. And like eHalcyon mentioned, playing a Wharf will bring the next reshuffle closer.

I mean, if your deck is small enough, you'll get to your next shuffle quickly enough. If your deck is big, it doesn't matter much, because you won't play it often anyway. So not playing something because of a reshuffle only matters with medium sized decks, barring the regular exceptions.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and hey, if you're having bad luck there's nothing you can do anyway.
You always have to make the best long term decisions, as with poker, but in any single game luck will play a pretty big factor.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Wharf + Fishing Village
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 03:47:11 pm »
+2

Maybe evolving as a player may cause some unnatural fear of missing reshuffles.

I mean, you've waited an entire shuffle for your cards already and if you don't play them now you might have to wade through you're deck once more if they're at the end again. So worst case you'll get to play that Wharf only once in 6 turns and at the end of those 6 turns, counting from the start of that reshuffle it was at the end of.

If you play it now, you'll at least get some bonus out of it instead of a couple of turns later. And like eHalcyon mentioned, playing a Wharf will bring the next reshuffle closer.

I mean, if your deck is small enough, you'll get to your next shuffle quickly enough. If your deck is big, it doesn't matter much, because you won't play it often anyway. So not playing something because of a reshuffle only matters with medium sized decks, barring the regular exceptions.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and hey, if you're having bad luck there's nothing you can do anyway.
You always have to make the best long term decisions, as with poker, but in any single game luck will play a pretty big factor.
This is good advice, but I would agree not to play that card because his deck was not slim whatsoever.  I'm guessing there was still another 15 cards left in his deck? It just isn't worth it to lose 3 of your 4 terminals... over possibly buying a FV, and increasing next turn's hand. 

Honestly, you did have poor luck, but if you did just go FV/Wharf only, there's a lot less variance in that play. 
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-Stef-

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Re: Wharf + Fishing Village
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 04:35:10 pm »
+1

Maybe evolving as a player may cause some unnatural fear of missing reshuffles.

I mean, you've waited an entire shuffle for your cards already and if you don't play them now you might have to wade through you're deck once more if they're at the end again. So worst case you'll get to play that Wharf only once in 6 turns and at the end of those 6 turns, counting from the start of that reshuffle it was at the end of.

If you play it now, you'll at least get some bonus out of it instead of a couple of turns later. And like eHalcyon mentioned, playing a Wharf will bring the next reshuffle closer.

I mean, if your deck is small enough, you'll get to your next shuffle quickly enough. If your deck is big, it doesn't matter much, because you won't play it often anyway. So not playing something because of a reshuffle only matters with medium sized decks, barring the regular exceptions.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and hey, if you're having bad luck there's nothing you can do anyway.
You always have to make the best long term decisions, as with poker, but in any single game luck will play a pretty big factor.
This is good advice, but I would agree not to play that card because his deck was not slim whatsoever.  I'm guessing there was still another 15 cards left in his deck? It just isn't worth it to lose 3 of your 4 terminals... over possibly buying a FV, and increasing next turn's hand. 

Honestly, you did have poor luck, but if you did just go FV/Wharf only, there's a lot less variance in that play.
I completely agree with RisingJaguar here.

Your turn 6 should have been double Fishing Village in stead of Gold
Your turn 7 should have been Wharf-Fishing Village-Fishing Village in stead of Wharf-Gold
This might be the case in any Wharf-Fishing Village game, but was especially true here because your opponent was quite behind with his lookout. You want to take the lesser risk.

But given the choices you made, not playing a wharf on turn 10 was very good. Just unlucky you didn't draw any of them turn 10 or 11, so it didn't pay off.
It's the kind of decision that still gives you a chance after things turn grim, due to either bad luck or some mistakes.
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