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Author Topic: Android: Netrunner  (Read 23293 times)

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sherwinpr

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Android: Netrunner
« on: September 11, 2012, 11:59:14 pm »
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Has anyone tried this yet, or played the original? 

I bought two core sets of the new game (probably a bit excessive), and so far the rules seem very interesting, and I enjoy most of the artwork and graphic design (choice of fonts, etc.) on the cards, but I've yet to get a chance to play.  It seems different than most LCG/CCGs, in that a lot of the game is in the playing portion, rather than primarily being restricted to the deck design portion.  I thought it might appeal to some people on these forums.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 02:08:08 am »
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It's 2p, right?

I liked Dominion because it allowed me to play with more than 2 (yes, it's possible!).
This is also a reason I didn't like Magic or any other such 2p game (yes, I know about multiplayer Magic).

So it's not for me as I don't have a regular gaming partner to play this with.
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sherwinpr

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 03:32:01 pm »
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It's 2p, right?

I liked Dominion because it allowed me to play with more than 2 (yes, it's possible!).
This is also a reason I didn't like Magic or any other such 2p game (yes, I know about multiplayer Magic).

So it's not for me as I don't have a regular gaming partner to play this with.

Yes it's a 2P game (with the playing styles of the two sides being very asymmetrical).
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 04:46:37 pm »
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With asymmetrical play you always have to be wary of "A few Acres of Snow" problems....
But Twilight Struggle proves it can be done beautifully.
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sherwinpr

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 08:00:04 pm »
+1

Android: Netrunner is even more assymetric than those games (although I don't have direct experience with A Few Acres of Snow).  Rather than just the cards being different, the fundamental rules governing the two sides are different.  In a game like Twilight Struggle the only (but the use of the word only here is ridiculous) difference between the two sides are action resolution order, the cards that benefit them, initial configuration (location of home countries, possession of China card, influence placement, etc.)  Yes, the two sides are radically different, and feel and play differently, and have strengths in different stages of the game, but I mean they both play and resolve cards, space race, manipulate the def con, use ops, etc. in fundamentally the same way.

In Android: Netrunner, not only are the two side's cards different and the wind conditions different, they have complete different actions available to them, and one side brings nearly all its cards into play facedown, as a sort of bluffing mechanic, and can try to mislead the other player into confusing their valuable and decoy facedown cards, while the other side's cards come into play in a more traditional way, and are organized very differently.  In fact, card types for the two sides are typically different also.

That's not to say Android: Netrunner is better than Twilight Struggle; I haven't even played the former yet, I'm just saying that the degree of asymmetry is different, which can be a good thing, a bad thing, or a neutral thing.  I haven't played many board games that are genuinely asymmetrical to this extent; War of the Ring is quite asymmetrical, though the two sides resolve combat in a similar manner.  Certain deduction games probably count though.  And of course, games like "Hide and Go Seek", "Tag", etc. are genuinely asymmetrical.
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Jdaki

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 06:19:34 pm »
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Bit of a necro, but kind of surprised to see no other mentions of this really. It's been the new "hot" boardgame for a while now, like Dominion was a few years back.
I have the base set and have only played around a dozen games, mostly with one person, but I can see why people love it. I never played Magic either, but I love the thinking you have to do with the information you have and the thinking about the stuff you don't know. There are strategies around the deck building but in game there are plenty of tactical decisions.

The wording and vocabulary is pretty off putting to some people and the cyberpunk Android universe won't be a hit with everyone. But I can see it appealing to fellow Dominion players, particularly given the large majority of the games played online are duels. Also there is an online implementation via octgn I believe, but I have been too scared to play yet! (Took a little while before I stepped into Isotropic for the first time, and longer still before I made an account :))
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2013, 06:50:45 pm »
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It has been discussed here before, a few times, notably I remember getting called out for playing it in the Random Stuff thread (I don't play it but have been thinking of grabbing a core set for casual games). I think it's a really cool game, the main thing that puts me off is the price - which is more of an issue than Dominion, because it's much harder to just 'play' Netrunner with people for the first time.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 03:18:30 pm »
+1

Yes it certainly is not as instant a "grab" as Dominion, it takes longer to explain and longer to play, and cannot be played with more than one other person. But it compares favourably with other board games in terms of the basic price and what you can do, there are 4 Corps and 3 Runner basic decks straight out of the box so 24 different match ups without even doing any deck building. The base set was a relatively easy buy for me even without others to guarantee play with as there are others who I am sure I can convince to give it a go. However, the expansion packs are something I can't really justify at this point in time.
Perhaps if you are interested in checking out the online implentation on octgn I'd happily try it out with you at some point. (or any others!). The Fantasy Flight four part tutorial video on YouTube is excellent.
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Dsell

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 03:50:59 pm »
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I am a huge Netrunner fan. It's rivaling Dominion as one of my favorites right now. I haven't played a lot (octgn won't work on my Mac) but I've kept up with the expansions and the current meta/theory trends. I love games that are customizable and that let you build something, so Netrunner (and Dominion) really fit that to a tee.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 02:34:25 am »
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I love deck building. That's the main reason why I love Dominion. And that's also why I really like Netrunner. You know, apart from the core gameplay being pretty good as well. The game has some quirks, but most games have. I don't really like the lack of stuff to do on your opponent's turn, the wording on some cards are unclear and the rules aren't well enough written that you can figure rules issues out without consulting the designers or the evergrowing FAQ.

However, the game is good enough that I brought it overseas when I went to GenCon. Unfortunately, I didn't get to play it any during the con.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 10:06:27 am »
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However, the game is good enough that I brought it overseas when I went to GenCon. Unfortunately, I didn't get to play it any during the con.
Were you (being non-American) prohibited from playing in US Nationals tournament? If I was at GenCon, I'd definitely want to play it, both for experience of a big field tourney and nice alt art Private Security Force card.

I started playing Netrunner two months ago when Polish translation was published, I guess I will play it more once summer ends.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 09:39:11 am »
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The reason I didn't play was because I did other stuff. I hadn't even considered that I might not be allowed to play due to not being american.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 05:43:55 am »
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Started to play this: it's amazing. Anyone else want to play me on octgn sometime?
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2013, 03:22:59 am »
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I still have my original Netrunner cards from 1996. Is it compatible? What are the main mechanical differences?
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Dsell

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2013, 05:56:50 am »
+1

I still have my original Netrunner cards from 1996. Is it compatible? What are the main mechanical differences?

I never played the original Netrunner, but some of the changes I know about are:
Factions. There are now 4 Corp and 3 Runner factions, and deckbuilding is limited by the amount of out of faction influence points you have and the influence cost of the cards you'd like to import. Plus within each faction are identities, which have abilities that change gameplay pretty significantly.

You can only have 3 copies of any card in your deck. I don't remember whether that's a change or not.

People have said that the ice has more interesting effects and feels less homogenous.

Aside from that I know that bad publicity and traces work differently, and you need many fewer agenda points to win (agendas are consequently worth fewer points). It's much easier to get tags to stick!

Oh, and I should mention that the LCG format changes things a lot. There are no random boosters or chasing rares, and there aren't really any "better" versions of other cards.

I really love it, and there's a way to play online through OCTGN, though it doesn't work on Macs. Hope this helps!
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2013, 06:08:54 pm »
+1

Oh and Netrunner cards are totally incompatible with Android: Netrunner. Lots of old Netrunner effects would be broken in the new format (if they weren't in the old), and considering the game's age and the new influence system, it just doesn't make sense for cards to be compatible. Plus it totally messes up the whole LCG format that FFG is endorsing.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2013, 06:09:36 pm »
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Also I bought Netrunner recently, it's sitting in a package at my family home waiting for me to go back at Christmas. And I might be getting some data packs for Christmas as well.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2013, 12:29:17 pm »
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Ok so I should have been in this thread with my rules questions I guess

On the timing chart, do the little green arrows mean either player can activate abilities, or only the player controlling the turn can activate abilities?  If not, can the runner really do nothing at all during the corporation's turn?


My dad is going to attempt to play today, I'm going to use the recommended beginning decks.  Should I have him play runner or corp?  My sense is I should let him run.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2013, 01:25:04 pm »
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Ok so I should have been in this thread with my rules questions I guess

On the timing chart, do the little green arrows mean either player can activate abilities, or only the player controlling the turn can activate abilities?  If not, can the runner really do nothing at all during the corporation's turn?


My dad is going to attempt to play today, I'm going to use the recommended beginning decks.  Should I have him play runner or corp?  My sense is I should let him run.

There's some debate about this actually. In general, runner may be easier to grasp for beginners.

I say it depends on whether he's stressed out by having too much information or too little. The burden of information is on the corp, since they know everything in their hand, and all the facedown cards in and protecting their server. Having all of this information plus keeping in mind everything the runner has installed can be overwhelming for some people. On the other hand, the runner is faced with a lot of unknowns. Is it going to be stressful for him to run when he has absolutely no idea what the facedown pieces of ice do? If he is frustrated by making decisions with too little information, runner may not be for him when he's just starting out.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2013, 01:36:25 pm »
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He's the type that tries to get by without reading all the cards.  Things probably won't end well.  I'm gonna have him run.

If the corporation doesn't put a piece of ice in front of both HQ and RD turn 1, does that means the runner can make easy successful runs on HQ and RD on his turn 1, even without any icebreakers installed?

I suppose there is a risk there that you don't actually hit any Agendas, so you feel like you should have spent more time setting up an income or something.  It seems like a good strategy for that criminal guy that gets money for running HQ, though.

I'm a little perturbed that Chum is one of the cards in the recommended first game deck, it seems hard to understand.  After reading the rules FAQ document on how Chum interacts with Femme Fatale I just got even more confused myself.  Would it perhaps be a good idea to swap Chum out for another piece of ice from another faction for our first game? Something crappy and weak simple.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2013, 01:42:20 pm »
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He's the type that tries to get by without reading all the cards.  Things probably won't end well.  I'm gonna have him run.

If the corporation doesn't put a piece of ice in front of both HQ and RD turn 1, does that means the runner can make easy successful runs on HQ and RD on his turn 1, even without any icebreakers installed?

I suppose there is a risk there that you don't actually hit any Agendas, so you feel like you should have spent more time setting up an income or something.  It seems like a good strategy for that criminal guy that gets money for running HQ, though.

I'm a little perturbed that Chum is one of the cards in the recommended first game deck, it seems hard to understand.  After reading the rules FAQ document on how Chum interacts with Femme Fatale I just got even more confused myself.  Would it perhaps be a good idea to swap Chum out for another piece of ice from another faction for our first game? Something crappy and weak simple.

Chum and Femme Fatale is a weird one, even I don't remember the exact ruling offhand, but in most cases it'll be fine. For the core set there shouldn't be a problem, the weirdness only arises when a piece of ice has no subroutines. As long as there's a subroutine, you have to actually break it or Chum will fire. Bypassing the ice doesn't count as breaking the subs.

But yeah, in your case having him be runner sounds like the right move!
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2013, 01:45:34 pm »
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Thought Femme Fatale was shaper, it's criminal though.

Seems like a shaper thing to me though.  "Can I slip through ice with pure feminine charm? I wanna see if I can do that"
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2013, 02:42:18 pm »
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I think of it as being more of a seductress, getting you past through underhand means. But really lots of cards could be argued to belong more in other factions, so I don't think it's a big deal.

Runner is generally somewhat easier to play as a beginner, and is also a little more fun (for beginners!), since you get the thrill of breaking into stuff.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2013, 11:20:01 am »
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He's the type that tries to get by without reading all the cards.  Things probably won't end well.  I'm gonna have him run.
How did it go?

IMO in a game where a more experienced player teaches a new one, the new player should run. Mostly because the other player sees his cards and can help. Additionally, as most new players are too cautious as runners, you will be encouraging him to do fun things (run).

For deck choice: everything depends on what cards you have. Genesis cycle is full of simple cards which can easily go into learning decks. I think the thing to avoid when building a learning deck is paid abilities (because they get in the way of natural rhytm of spending one click after another, making the game way more complicated). And, if the new player is the runner, corp deck should be low on traps/ambushes and aim rather at agenda than flatline win. The runner deck should not rely much on tutoring effects (as the new player won't have an idea what to tutor for). I did a quick try and I came up with those two lists:
http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/byTXfqaNEqYwdZZ7A
http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/ME6WgrywkEHsfCc6f
Those decks are simple, show the basic ideas of ice against icebreakers, but contain a few tricks so there's something to discover.

I
f the corporation doesn't put a piece of ice in front of both HQ and RD turn 1, does that means the runner can make easy successful runs on HQ and RD on his turn 1, even without any icebreakers installed?
Yes, and generally he should - sometimes you will get an agenda, but every time you will learn something about your opponent's deck. Of course you should not spend your entire turn running unguarded HQ, but one run is often a good idea, and it's almost always a good idea to run unguarded R&D.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2013, 02:52:21 pm »
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My dad ended up not wanting to play.  I played with my housemate instead.  Most games he likes about an average amount, he's usually pretty easy to please, but the teaching game of netrunner was a terrible experience.

I let him run and played Jinteki.  I have no idea how on God's green earth FFG thinks Jinteki is the best corp for the first beginner game.  I tried to get into the whole trappy sense of it, icing my deck and hand and leaving remotes randomly guarded or unguarded.  He got several unadvanced agendas for free because I didn't really know what I was doing.  Then he made a run on HQ and I had Chum in that row.  Chum was as painful to work out as I thought it might be.  I had to explain to him that if he jacked out he still took 3 netdamage, but didn't have to deal with the higher strength ice.  The card is not a super intuitive first game kind of card.

He got 6 agenda points really fast because I did lots of stupid stuff.  Then I charged up a project junebug twice and he ran it and flatlined.  It was kind of a wtf ending and he already was having trouble understanding things and fumbling through the game so he was pretty unenthused at the end of things.

Just really confused about what FFG imagined first games playing out like with Shaper versus Jinteki. 
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2013, 07:03:47 pm »
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From what I've seen on BGG, most people recommend Weyland or HB as a first game deck vs. Shaper. Jinteki is kind of recommended only if you have a veteran vs. a newbie, since the Jinteki deck is pretty bad.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2013, 09:17:12 am »
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Then he made a run on HQ and I had Chum in that row.  Chum was as painful to work out as I thought it might be.  I had to explain to him that if he jacked out he still took 3 netdamage, but didn't have to deal with the higher strength ice.

I agree that Jinteki is really dumb as the first game deck, but I just want to point out that the above is wrong. If you jack out from chum, it is as if chum just had 'end the run' as its subroutine and you hit it. In the early game it pretty much functions as a 1 cost ETR that only works if you have ice behind it.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2013, 03:28:24 pm »
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Then he made a run on HQ and I had Chum in that row.  Chum was as painful to work out as I thought it might be.  I had to explain to him that if he jacked out he still took 3 netdamage, but didn't have to deal with the higher strength ice.

I agree that Jinteki is really dumb as the first game deck, but I just want to point out that the above is wrong. If you jack out from chum, it is as if chum just had 'end the run' as its subroutine and you hit it. In the early game it pretty much functions as a 1 cost ETR that only works if you have ice behind it.

I genuinely appreciate the correction.  I over-remembered the second part of the clarifications on Chum in the FAQ and mixed them up with the first part, which is very clear that you are correct.

I don't think this actually ruined our game because correct play was for him to make a successful run, but I will keep this in mind now.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2013, 08:47:05 pm »
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Honor and Profit, the second deluxe expansion, has been recently announced on FFG's site - which focuses on Criminal and Jinteki cards (including 3 identities for each)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2013, 08:48:40 pm »
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Honor and Profit, the second deluxe expansion, has been recently announced on FFG's site - which focuses on Criminal and Jinteki cards (including 3 identities for each)

And it's awwwwweeeeeeeessssssssoooooommmmeee

The relatively steady stream of spoilers is what keeps me totally hooked on this game.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2013, 08:54:26 pm »
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Honor and Profit, the second deluxe expansion, has been recently announced on FFG's site - which focuses on Criminal and Jinteki cards (including 3 identities for each)

And it's awwwwweeeeeeeessssssssoooooommmmeee

The relatively steady stream of spoilers is what keeps me totally hooked on this game.
It's hard to get hooked on this game when no one will play it with me
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2013, 08:57:07 pm »
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Honor and Profit, the second deluxe expansion, has been recently announced on FFG's site - which focuses on Criminal and Jinteki cards (including 3 identities for each)

And it's awwwwweeeeeeeessssssssoooooommmmeee

The relatively steady stream of spoilers is what keeps me totally hooked on this game.
It's hard to get hooked on this game when no one will play it with me

Yeah, that's an issue. If you're in the US though you're likely fairly close to some Netrunner players.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2013, 02:26:43 am »
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Yeah, they play at a nearby game store everyone weekend, but I don't have a car, and the buses don't run on Saturday :(
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2013, 06:07:28 am »
0

Not a huge fan of Criminal, but I pretty much always play Jinteki. :)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2013, 07:11:25 am »
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Yeah, they play at a nearby game store everyone weekend, but I don't have a car, and the buses don't run on Saturday :(
Hitch-hiking? :)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2013, 04:17:33 pm »
0

Yeah, they play at a nearby game store everyone weekend, but I don't have a car, and the buses don't run on Saturday :(
Hitch-hiking? :)

As tempting as that gets, they say it's a good way to get mugged and stuff
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2013, 04:51:32 pm »
0

Yeah, they play at a nearby game store everyone weekend, but I don't have a car, and the buses don't run on Saturday :(

Where do you live that the buses don't run on Saturday?
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2013, 12:38:59 am »
0

Yeah, they play at a nearby game store everyone weekend, but I don't have a car, and the buses don't run on Saturday :(

Where do you live that the buses don't run on Saturday?
I know, right? Huntsville, Alabama. 
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2013, 01:38:55 pm »
0

With all the buzz about this game I thought the easiest way to get my head round it would be to buy a copy.  I've read the rules and the cards, and tried a solo game with the suggested Shaper/Jinteki to test the mechanics.  Right now I agree that recommending Jinteki as an introduction seems insane. 

Part of why this game is so complicated is that it's important to know the exact names for everything, something I only appreciated after looking up what exactly Nisei Mk II was supposed to do.  There's enough going on in Netrunner that I wouldn't like to have to explain the rules to anybody.

FFG make a big fuss about the fact that this is a LCG, not a CCG, and that every set contains the same cards.  What they don't say is that the cards appear in different frequencies, so that although you can use up to three copies of a card in a deck, only a single copy of some cards are provided.  So if you want three of one of those cards you still have to buy excessive quantities of other cards that you don't want or need.  A quick glance at the FFG catalogue suggests that this problem is specific to the core set, but it's still annoying.

I'll see how this goes, and might be tempted to venture onto octgn if it works out, but I don't see myself spending much more on physical cards.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2013, 02:55:38 pm »
+1

Yeah, the Core set being bitty with numbers of cards provided is extremely annoying. I can understand why they've done it - to increase the variety in the starting decks, giving more options to play with using just the core set, as well as ensuring the "base" Core decks work properly and also meaning you don't need to worry much about unique cards since they're all one-offs in the set. But not releasing the cards to make up the numbers for the rest of cards is, while sensible business wise, incredibly frustrating if you want to get competitive - you need to at least buy a second Core set (possibly  a third, but two cores gives you three copies of most cards and the ones you don't are all two copies, so two is usually fine. San San City Grid is probably the most notable card you'd want three copies of for fast advance decks).

I'm probably going to end up involved in a few Netrunner drafts eventually, hopefully that'll make up my numbers a little and give me a few cards from data packs I don't have (which is currently all of them in the Genesis Cycle, so pretty good odds :P). But that's not exactly a cheap way of getting the cards, so eh.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2013, 05:56:46 am »
+1

How do these netrunner drafts work?
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2013, 07:07:26 am »
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2014, 12:29:18 am »
0

Thank you for the video.  At what times are you allowed to score an agenda?
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2014, 01:57:39 am »
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Basically during your turn.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2014, 01:03:20 pm »
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I made a custom deck.  I intend to take it to play with the fancy people at the comic store on tuesday
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2014, 01:26:04 pm »
0

I made a haas bioroid deck and tried to swap out for cards that make Accelerated Beta test powerful.  Including two precognitions.  Theoretically, you can play Precognition one turn, order your deck to be Junk-Ice-Ice-Ice-Junk, then draw Precognition the next turn, then play the 4$ Village to score the beta test straight from hand and cheat out three ices.  It's a little less far fetched since that top card could be either the Village or the Beta test.

That costs seven credits to do so I tried to put lots of money cards in for the other stuff. 
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2014, 01:30:13 pm »
0

I made a haas bioroid deck and tried to swap out for cards that make Accelerated Beta test powerful.  Including two precognitions.  Theoretically, you can play Precognition one turn, order your deck to be Junk-Ice-Ice-Ice-Junk, then draw Precognition the next turn, then play the 4$ Village to score the beta test straight from hand and cheat out three ices.  It's a little less far fetched since that top card could be either the Village or the Beta test.

That costs seven credits to do so I tried to put lots of money cards in for the other stuff. 

That's quite a nice combo, the first Corp deck I ever played (made by someone else) used that exact card combo to work. One slight issue is that Corps tend to not have much in the way of card searching, so it can be very hard to get all the parts together, especially since there are three bits to it. And even once they are, reasonably often you might Precognition and only see one or two bits of ice.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2014, 09:00:22 pm »
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Yeah.  Do you think there is something way, way stronger in the base set though? 

Since using the base set requires you to use Priority Requisition anyway, it seemed like a good idea to go ahead and do a cheat big ice deck.  I put two Hunters in, if the beta test hits even one Hunter, that's about as good as three pieces of Ice right there.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2014, 12:29:55 am »
0

In the base set alone? Probably, but I couldn't tell you what it is. The base set is pretty runner-sided overall I believe.

I just finished making my first deck with my two data packs (Second Thoughts and Opening Moves). That's not a huge amount of extra cards, but it's enough to give a decent number of new options. I ended up making what's probably going to be a crappy Weyland deck, whose rough game plan is 1) Acquire tons of money, 2) Spend it on massive Ice to slow the runner down while you 3) Tag the runner and kill him through various damage effects. I spent a decent amount of time tinkering with things, and I still feel like I need more economy (especially burst economy) to make the idea work, but there's no more sensible way to get that (I could spend extra influence on it, but then I need to drop some other important cards, especially Ice, which I'm already slightly low on). Still it should be interesting.

Next I'll need to look at my runner cards and consider what to do. I'd like to do something with Caissas, but Noise really isn't a good character to do that, and I don't have any other Anarchs.

Also while messing around with by Corp deck I drew some random starting hands (which is actually a surprisingly useful tool for working out if your deck will work in the earlygame). I managed to draw a hand of 4 Agendas one time after a mulligan, and later on managed to draw 5 agendas. My deck has 9 Agendas IIRC out of 49 cards. Yeah.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 12:35:47 am by Tables »
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2014, 02:08:58 am »
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I put two Hunters in, if the beta test hits even one Hunter, that's about as good as three pieces of Ice right there.

I'm curious why you think this, especially with an HB deck. Do you have very much that's able to punish the runner when he or she has tags?
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2014, 02:10:15 am »
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The other agenda you're forced to use with the base set deck is Private Security force.. there's a couple other tag punishers in there too.  Neutrals, I think.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2014, 02:11:09 am »
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Wait, did I mix up Hunter with Archer?  I put the Weyland one that costs an Agenda in.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2014, 02:21:58 am »
0

Wait, did I mix up Hunter with Archer?  I put the Weyland one that costs an Agenda in.

Ah, archer yeah. Hunter is trace4 to give a tag. It's not bad in decks that are trying to do that, but I never cared for it much with just the base set. Or at all, really, but I've not played much NBN.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2014, 02:25:26 am »
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Yeah.  I left Hunter in the deck, I don't think I could afford the Influence to swap it out.  Since I have Private Security force anyway.

But definitely wouldn't consider a 1 credit ice as good as three ice  ;D
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2014, 02:33:53 am »
0

Tag and Bag is very potent with Core only.

You make sure the Runner is tagged, either by ICE, Posted Bounty/Breaking News or SEA Source, then you hit them with Scorched Earth.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2014, 02:43:48 am »
0

Tag and Bag is very potent with Core only.

You make sure the Runner is tagged, either by ICE, Posted Bounty/Breaking News or SEA Source, then you hit them with Scorched Earth.
Yeah.  I don't know if that is a great strategy for haas bioroid though since none of those cards are HB
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2014, 02:45:17 am »
+2

i wish i could play netrunner online instead of hearthstone

I also wish I could play dominion online instead of hearthstone
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2014, 02:57:11 am »
0

Tag and Bag is very potent with Core only.

You make sure the Runner is tagged, either by ICE, Posted Bounty/Breaking News or SEA Source, then you hit them with Scorched Earth.
Yeah.  I don't know if that is a great strategy for haas bioroid though since none of those cards are HB

It is not. I think you have to run either Wayland (Works very well) or NBN (works). I didn't realize you wanted to play HB. If you have access to maybe one additional SanSan City Grid you could look up HB Fast Advance. It's pretty strong. And you could probably run it without double/triple SanSan.

i wish i could play netrunner online instead of hearthstone

Check out OCTGN. ;)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2014, 03:06:18 am »
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I just have the one SanSan.  I tend to be OCD about playing imperfect versions of good decks so I opted not to build a SanSan based deck.

I really wish they put no fewer than two copies of each card in the core set.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2014, 03:11:13 am »
0

I think not following the LCG part for the Core set was pretty silly.

The thing with SanSan is that it's not fully needed with Core only. You have the Biotic Labor that basically does the same thing. Let you score Agendas straight from your hand. I can't remember if you get two or three Biotics in the Core set, but if it's three you are fine with only 1 SanSan. It will probably not be AS consistant as it could be, but it will be fast either way.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #60 on: January 03, 2014, 03:13:58 am »
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Yeah, I have three Biotic Labors.  Thank God.

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2014, 03:28:29 am »
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Looking at the contents of the Core set, I see that it might be hard/impossible to build a viable Fast Advance since you only have three Agendas that are 3 cost 2 points.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #62 on: January 03, 2014, 03:37:21 am »
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I downloaded octgn and added netrunner.  Would anyone from here play with me? If magicworkstation taught me anything it's that random internet strangers aren't always patient with newbies.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #63 on: January 03, 2014, 03:41:14 am »
0

I would, but I'm at work right now. I might have some time during the weekend.

Also, if you create a game where you announce that you are a new player the Netrunner online players tend to be pretty understanding.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 03:42:19 am by Lekkit »
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #64 on: January 03, 2014, 03:46:32 am »
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That wouldn't stop HME, heh..
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2014, 03:49:04 am »
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I'll try one after this HS arena run is over.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2014, 09:37:29 pm »
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Played a bunch of games on octgn, then got mega turned off by the last one.

Can someone explain to me how Snare is well designed gameplay?
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2014, 11:49:03 am »
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It makes blindly accessing advanced cards not an automatic move for the runner. Using something to reduce damage, or just drawing an extra card before accessing, means you survive. And since it costs the corp 4 credits plus the 3 and 3 actions they spent to advance it, losing 6 cards isn't quite so bad as it sounds.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2014, 12:22:33 pm »
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It makes blindly accessing advanced cards not an automatic move for the runner. Using something to reduce damage, or just drawing an extra card before accessing, means you survive. And since it costs the corp 4 credits plus the 3 and 3 actions they spent to advance it, losing 6 cards isn't quite so bad as it sounds.

I'm a bit confused: are you thinking about parts of two different cards?

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2014, 12:43:17 pm »
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It makes blindly accessing advanced cards not an automatic move for the runner. Using something to reduce damage, or just drawing an extra card before accessing, means you survive. And since it costs the corp 4 credits plus the 3 and 3 actions they spent to advance it, losing 6 cards isn't quite so bad as it sounds.

I'm a bit confused: are you thinking about parts of two different cards?



Oh... yes, I suppose I was confusing them. Snare is even just fixed damage, even easier to work around. There's a lot of traps the corp can throw at a runner, but you can't prepare for all of them. Just be careful when facing Jinteki.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2014, 06:35:13 pm »
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Snare bugs me a lot more than Project Junebug.  Even if you have 3 cards in hand, hitting it in R&D means you lose three clicks worth of cards as a "reward" for accessing R&D, at random.  It reminds me of Dominion fan cards that randomly steal Provinces from decks.


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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2014, 06:36:57 pm »
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I feel like when I'm running on Weyland R&D or something, the difference between Priority Requisition and Hedge Fund is swingy enough.  I don't understand why for Jinteki the possibility has to vary so widely, all the way from 3 point agenda to -3 clicks.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2014, 06:38:11 pm »
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Saw it played at FLGS (where MTG is played 90% of the time). Look interesting, read rules, watched some matches, kinda getting hooked.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2014, 06:59:23 pm »
0

I feel like when I'm running on Weyland R&D or something, the difference between Priority Requisition and Hedge Fund is swingy enough.  I don't understand why for Jinteki the possibility has to vary so widely, all the way from 3 point agenda to -3 clicks.

Most of the time a single blind R&D run isn't going to do much. You generally need to combine it with other things to boost success - getting an R&D lock, for example, is extremely powerful (this is where you access R&D every turn, always seeing the Corp's next card, and thus ensuring they can't draw Agendas without spending clicks to draw extra cards). Other ways to boost the effectiveness of running R&D is to use cards to access more than one thing at once (e.g. The Makers Eye, Medium, in the base set), trash lots of things out of R&D to try and find agendas (e.g. Demolition Run, especially combined with the previous two) or other various tricks introduced in expansions.

Jinteki are always the tricks and traps faction. The main thing with Snare is less the damage it will do occasionally when you access it, but the threat of potentially accessing it forcing you to have your hand size at a decent level.

Oh, and 3 cards is less than 3 clicks. Probably closer to 2 clicks. You don't HAVE to draw back up after hitting a Snare, and you will probably have ways of drawing more or drawing what you want to fill in the gaps, e.g. Diesel, Special Orders, Djinn. So the damage isn't really that huge. Add to that you can trash the Snare at no cost, removing one of at most 3 of them from their deck...
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2014, 07:05:18 pm »
0

I feel like when I'm running on Weyland R&D or something, the difference between Priority Requisition and Hedge Fund is swingy enough.  I don't understand why for Jinteki the possibility has to vary so widely, all the way from 3 point agenda to -3 clicks.

Most of the time a single blind R&D run isn't going to do much. You generally need to combine it with other things to boost success - getting an R&D lock, for example, is extremely powerful (this is where you access R&D every turn, always seeing the Corp's next card, and thus ensuring they can't draw Agendas without spending clicks to draw extra cards). Other ways to boost the effectiveness of running R&D is to use cards to access more than one thing at once (e.g. The Makers Eye, Medium, in the base set), trash lots of things out of R&D to try and find agendas (e.g. Demolition Run, especially combined with the previous two) or other various tricks introduced in expansions.

Jinteki are always the tricks and traps faction. The main thing with Snare is less the damage it will do occasionally when you access it, but the threat of potentially accessing it forcing you to have your hand size at a decent level.

Oh, and 3 cards is less than 3 clicks. Probably closer to 2 clicks. You don't HAVE to draw back up after hitting a Snare, and you will probably have ways of drawing more or drawing what you want to fill in the gaps, e.g. Diesel, Special Orders, Djinn. So the damage isn't really that huge. Add to that you can trash the Snare at no cost, removing one of at most 3 of them from their deck...

There's that new Jinteki identity that requires you to run R&D to access a remote server, though :(.  Unless you run HQ, which will have even higher snare density, or archives, which has no potential benefit.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2014, 07:24:18 pm »
0

I feel like when I'm running on Weyland R&D or something, the difference between Priority Requisition and Hedge Fund is swingy enough.  I don't understand why for Jinteki the possibility has to vary so widely, all the way from 3 point agenda to -3 clicks.

Most of the time a single blind R&D run isn't going to do much. You generally need to combine it with other things to boost success - getting an R&D lock, for example, is extremely powerful (this is where you access R&D every turn, always seeing the Corp's next card, and thus ensuring they can't draw Agendas without spending clicks to draw extra cards). Other ways to boost the effectiveness of running R&D is to use cards to access more than one thing at once (e.g. The Makers Eye, Medium, in the base set), trash lots of things out of R&D to try and find agendas (e.g. Demolition Run, especially combined with the previous two) or other various tricks introduced in expansions.

Jinteki are always the tricks and traps faction. The main thing with Snare is less the damage it will do occasionally when you access it, but the threat of potentially accessing it forcing you to have your hand size at a decent level.

Oh, and 3 cards is less than 3 clicks. Probably closer to 2 clicks. You don't HAVE to draw back up after hitting a Snare, and you will probably have ways of drawing more or drawing what you want to fill in the gaps, e.g. Diesel, Special Orders, Djinn. So the damage isn't really that huge. Add to that you can trash the Snare at no cost, removing one of at most 3 of them from their deck...

There's that new Jinteki identity that requires you to run R&D to access a remote server, though :(.  Unless you run HQ, which will have even higher snare density, or archives, which has no potential benefit.

I wouldn't call it new, it was the 3rd identity released beyond the base game :P. It also requires you to only make a run on a central server, not to be successful, or to access cards, and I'm not sure what point you're making about the different Central servers is. Why would HQ have a higher Snare Density? Also if I access a card from H&Q and it's a Snare, and they activate it, I just lowered the Corp's hand size by one and their credit pool by 1, while I lost 3 cards. That's not much worse than just seeing a card I can't trash or steal.

Also, if you're playing against Jinteki, their whole manifesto is tricks and traps everywhere. If you don't hit ANY of their traps, you're very likely going to win. Even if you hit a few Snares and whatnot you're still in a decent position.
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But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #76 on: January 05, 2014, 01:05:42 am »
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You still have to encounter a piece of ice when you make a run, right? That's at the very least a credit and a click before you can run something successfully.  Or just a click if Archives is still naked, but it's not hard to drop one ice on Archives just to be irritating.

Snare has higher density in hand than in deck because Snare is less likely to get played than Ice or Operations, so the zone becomes "biased" towards snares while the deck is just fully random.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2014, 07:05:44 am »
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Is it just me, or runner wins waaay more often than Corp (like 8:2 at least, judging by many videos on Team Covenant on youtube from various tourneys)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2014, 10:09:25 am »
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it's not actually that bad: look at the 2012 worlds for example, first runner died to junebug and the second to SE. I think the actually statistics are something like 60-40. Even that is quite annoying though.

Re: Snare
Jinteki's main thing is that since they have ice that's bad at keeping the runner out of their servers, they make it less profitable to run. It's a half-flavor half-balance thing, and keep in mind the corp does still have to pay 4 money for it to activate.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2014, 10:46:21 am »
+1

While I can see how it seems very unfair at first. It's really not.

Drawing cards for Runners are worth less clicks than credits are for Corps. Therefore the 4 credit cost to activate Snare is actually quite reasonable. Add to that that you want to run 3 of it to decrease the randomness of it. That's 6 influence outside of Jinteki. And just like every other Jinteki trap they are best outside of Jinteki. That doesn't prevent most of the Jinteki decks from playing 3 Snares, though. But against Jinteki you're prepared.

While accessing a snare from the top of the R&D seems like random luck, you'll have to take into consideration how high the chance of hitting stuff you want/don't want. Assume your oponent has 3 Snares. He also has 3 Nisei MK II, 3 Private Security Force and 3 Priority Requisition (with Core only). So out of 12 worthwile cards 3 are Snares. While it's higher chance to hit an Agenda, it's not that low chance to hit a Snare. Assuming you hit something worthwile, which is not true in many cases. Which is why R&D runs are mostly good for knowing which cards the Corp will throw at you.

Also, if you play a couple of games against Criminals, you'll notice how good the fact that Snare exists is. They can be aggressive, but the mere possibility of you running Snares will hold them back a little. It's one of those cards that are needed to make sure the first two turns aren't, Run, Run, Run, Run.

Speaking of Criminals, they are the main reason why I don't think Replicating Perfection is that good. Between Desperado and the often splashed Data Suckers, they just make a run on the cheapest central and get good benefit from it. ICEing Archives is good and all, but unless it's an ICE that hurts you, you'll be fine. Any ICE that "just" end the run is basically only a click extra to run a remote server. And protecting three centrals is MUCH harder than protecting two (which is the usual way to do it). It's the reason why Sneakdoor Beta is such a good card.

I don't want to sound judgemental here, but the best way to keep the Corp player in check is to run a lot. Make him rez ICE that's how you keep their economy down. By being aggressive you'l limit their plays. That's the strength of the runner. If you let them bank 10+ credits you'll be sitting there guessing what ICE they have and how many Agendas they can score off their SanSan that they haven't even rezzed. If you do that you'll see that it's not uncommon for the Corp to sit on less than 4 credits when you access cards. And then you really benefit from hitting that Snare.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #80 on: January 05, 2014, 11:06:05 am »
0

The runner win rate is more like 52:48 currently, on OCTGN, I believe. It's very close to balanced but with a slight edge to the runner.
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But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2014, 02:09:00 pm »
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Yeah, I know. The 60-40 figure is from the top level (1%) of play.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2014, 07:52:34 pm »
0

it's not actually that bad: look at the 2012 worlds for example, first runner died to junebug and the second to SE. I think the actually statistics are something like 60-40. Even that is quite annoying though.

This game?


He takes 2$ rather than removing the tag and he was well in the money, meh. And Corp player puts down a wrong card near the end. Awesome game, otherwise.

I've never played a game of this but I've watched so many videos that I almost know all the cards already  ;D
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 08:01:07 pm by Grujah »
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2014, 01:49:56 am »
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I will take your word for it I guess, because I know less.  Can we agree the job does a terrible job of explaining/introducing new players to the possibilities there, though.  My very first game was a runner with 6 AP losing to a level 2 Project Junebug, and then after that I was pretty sure the main idea was not to run on -installed- Jinteki stuff.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2014, 01:53:11 am »
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How would i go about playing one of you guys on octgn
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2014, 02:26:02 am »
0

I will take your word for it I guess, because I know less.  Can we agree the job does a terrible job of explaining/introducing new players to the possibilities there, though.  My very first game was a runner with 6 AP losing to a level 2 Project Junebug, and then after that I was pretty sure the main idea was not to run on -installed- Jinteki stuff.

I think the main thing here is that while flatlining the Runner happens every once in a while, and running a deck that often wins by doing that is viable, the second win con for the Runner isn't. To deck out the Corp. So right now, I feel like there's two ways for the Corp to win and only one for the Runner. And also the high damage stuff will pretty much always be frustrating. Whether it's running into a random Snare or getting trapped into running on Edge of World.

Regarding playing on OCTGN, I'm busy today and tomorrow, but I'm free on wednesday and thursday and would love to get a game or two in then. You can friend me on there. Username is Lekkit.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #86 on: January 06, 2014, 02:33:06 am »
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You gotta wait until school starts to be available, darnit :(
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #87 on: January 06, 2014, 02:33:54 am »
+2

It's okay, I have a date tomorrow.  And you know what happens on the second date.  I take her back to my place, light some candles, and break out the Bureaucrats.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2014, 03:25:01 am »
0

I will take your word for it I guess, because I know less.  Can we agree the job does a terrible job of explaining/introducing new players to the possibilities there, though.  My very first game was a runner with 6 AP losing to a level 2 Project Junebug, and then after that I was pretty sure the main idea was not to run on -installed- Jinteki stuff.

It's a FFG game, explaining things badly and having walls of FAQs and errata is part of the package honestly.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #89 on: January 06, 2014, 11:56:12 am »
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I will take your word for it I guess, because I know less.  Can we agree the job does a terrible job of explaining/introducing new players to the possibilities there, though.  My very first game was a runner with 6 AP losing to a level 2 Project Junebug, and then after that I was pretty sure the main idea was not to run on -installed- Jinteki stuff.

It's a FFG game, explaining things badly and having walls of FAQs and errata is part of the package honestly.

QFT.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2014, 10:10:04 am »
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I've just realized that you actually DO NOT get 3 of each card in Core Set. You get 2 and 1 one of some, which makes you have to buy 2 or 3 sets to have everything.

Isn't that really against what LCG should be? Be once and be set?

This turns me off buying it, A LOT.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2014, 11:29:31 am »
0

The problem of core set is that it also is (for quite many people) a game-in-a-box buy. Which means it should be easy to use and interesting as a single core set with prebuit decks.

The current core set is good at it. Prebuilt decks are simple to assemble (take all cards for a faction, add all neutrals, go). If all cards were filled to 3-of, it would be more complicated to assemble them and adding ~80 cards more would drive the price up, making people less likely to purchase. Yes, if you want to be competitive, you will have to get more than one set. But you'd want to do this anyway most probably, as being a competitive player you're likely to want to have more than one deck built at the same time, so it's good to have more core set 3-of staples. Together with my gf we have 3 cores, 2 of every expansion, and if money was not an issue, we'd probably have a bit more to have more various decks ready.

Most likely all you'd want is a second core which you can buy used. You definitely can be competitive with this. If you play just casually, you don't need even the second one. Third is for people who want to be able to build every deck they imagine, or for people sharing their card pool with someone else.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2014, 01:07:53 pm »
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Nah.  I think they should have done a runner core set with  Shaper, HB, Jinteki, NBN filled out to 3-ofs, then a corp core set with Criminal, Anarchist, Weyland filled out to 3-ofs.  Would be easier to get a full collection.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #93 on: January 08, 2014, 06:34:05 pm »
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Would be easier to get a full collection.
This would be terrible from a new player's point of view. 3 or 4 decks in the box instead of 7 is way less replayability.

I think the perfect solution would be getting rid of 1-ofs. For example cutting Aesop's Pawnshop, Ice Carver and Data Dealer for second copies of consoles, cutting Akitaro Watanabe for second Zaibatsu Loyality or the other way round, cutting a Tollbooth, an Ichi 1.0 and a Shadow to add second Corporate Troubleshooter, SanSan City Grid and Security Subcontract. Then two players getting 3 core sets would each have a playset.

But the current model is not that bad. You can be competitive with two core sets, and you have good use for many of the cards from second one. LCG model is quite new and I guess in a few years Fantasy Flight will learn how to use it better. Netrunner is huge improvement anyway - Game of Thrones LCG core set is mostly 1-ofs with a few 2-ofs, so to be competitive you really need 3 cores. And some expansions also didn't contain 3 copies of each card (they were later reprinted in 3-of format).
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #94 on: January 08, 2014, 08:11:37 pm »
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To be competitive you need 3 of some of the 1 of cards. Desperado comes to mind.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #95 on: January 08, 2014, 08:24:49 pm »
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If they only made a "completetion set" but of course, that lands them less money, sigh.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #96 on: January 08, 2014, 10:28:16 pm »
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To be competitive you need 3 of some of the 1 of cards. Desperado comes to mind.
Even with the console restriction? Damn that thing is busted
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #97 on: January 09, 2014, 10:15:12 am »
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To be competitive you need 3 of some of the 1 of cards. Desperado comes to mind.
Even with the console restriction? Damn that thing is busted

If you're a Criminal runner, then yes. Even with the console restriction. If you're not, then 2 might be enough, but you'd still prefer 3 if you have the influence. You want that Desperado up and running as soon as possible. And yes, it's busted.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #98 on: January 09, 2014, 10:32:24 am »
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I've just realized that you actually DO NOT get 3 of each card in Core Set. You get 2 and 1 one of some, which makes you have to buy 2 or 3 sets to have everything.

Isn't that really against what LCG should be? Be once and be set?

This turns me off buying it, A LOT.

Yeah, it would really be nicer the other way, but 2 core sets, or 3 for two people works pretty well. With the second option, both people get a full set of the two-ofs, and there are 3 of the one-ofs for one person. (and with two people, they might want to build different kinds of decks, like katman vs andy or something)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #99 on: January 09, 2014, 10:43:22 am »
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Also, the draft sets will work as "booster packs", so there will be additional copies out.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #100 on: January 09, 2014, 12:13:48 pm »
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I've generally seen people say running two Desperados and maybe also one Doppleganger is usually fine. Even if not, if it's a friendly game, just use a proxy provided your opponent is okay with it.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #101 on: January 09, 2014, 03:58:42 pm »
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Yeah, it would really be nicer the other way, but 2 core sets, or 3 for two people works pretty well. With the second option, both people get a full set of the two-ofs, and there are 3 of the one-ofs for one person. (and with two people, they might want to build different kinds of decks, like katman vs andy or something)
This isn't a very good example, as Katman (in traditional, most popular version) runs 3x Desperado as well (though I really enjoy my build which uses 2x Doppelganger and a Djinn instead, using saved influence for a Faerie).

3x Desperado is definitely good to have (though I think I more often use the fact that I have access to 3 core sets by playing 3x Corporate Troubleshooter). But unless you want to be top level competitive, 2 core sets is definitely enough. The winning decks of Polish Nationals were built from double core.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #102 on: January 09, 2014, 06:25:12 pm »
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Yeah, thing is that since I got heavy into MTG, I tend to look at many games from ultra competitive angle (even though I probably wont actually be that competitive, as ATM scene here is nonexistant) and it irks me if I cannot build optimal netdeck. Sure, I'll proxy if needed for friendly games / borrow if absolutely needed, but I would feel so much better if I  wouldn't be constrained with card count.


EDIT: And before somebody goes with "but if you play magic, you are used to overpaying for cards, extra core sets shouldn' be a problem" thing is that with expensive MTG cards I know that they will hold value or even rise, and I don't feel it will with extra ANR cards.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 06:28:07 pm by Grujah »
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #103 on: January 09, 2014, 10:04:16 pm »
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That's totally circular logic.  You're saying "It's ok that Magic cards cost more because Magic cards cost more".  The reason cards hold value and can appreciate is because they're expensive to acquire in the first place.  If buying up Zendikar fetches had required a 2$ investment instead of a 15$ one, they would have hardly appreciated at all because everyone would have gotten some and there would be lots of supply for the demand.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #104 on: January 09, 2014, 11:07:54 pm »
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No, if Fetches were 2$ there would still be the same amount of them in supply (people would still open the same amount of boosters) and the price today would be the same (40-50). Was worth investing in when they were 10 a pop. If they were printed at Uncommon rarity, that would be a totally different story. (Goyf is an example of a card that was bulk rare when it came out, than was discovered broken and was 30, which was still a bargain compared to today's price).

Thing is as long as playerbase stays the same or increases, prices (I'm talking staples here) will rise or at least stay the same (or suffer minimal,bareable loss), EVEN if cards get reprinted, weirdly. Unless something gets a significant ban or a staple gets a superior version, but WoTC knows better, I hope.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #105 on: January 09, 2014, 11:11:27 pm »
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No, if Fetches were 2$ there would still be the same amount of them in supply (people would still open the same amount of boosters) and the price today would be the same (40-50). Was worth investing in when they were 10 a pop. If they were printed at Uncommon rarity, that would be a totally different story. (Goyf is an example of a card that was bulk rare when it came out, than was discovered broken and was 30, which was still a bargain compared to today's price).

Thing is as long as playerbase stays the same or increases, prices (I'm talking staples here) will rise or at least stay the same (or suffer minimal,bareable loss), EVEN if cards get reprinted, weirdly. Unless something gets a significant ban or a staple gets a superior version, but WoTC knows better, I hope.
Fetches wouldn't have originally been 2$ unless Zendikar packs costed less, or Zendikar packs were sold in boxes with guaranteed contents..
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #106 on: January 09, 2014, 11:22:23 pm »
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They would cost less if people didn't realize that they were any good. They would cost the same now in that case.

Or if like, there were no support for it at that time but then it got released later (Alphas/Shocks).
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 11:23:39 pm by Grujah »
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hsiale

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #107 on: January 10, 2014, 02:45:26 am »
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thing is that with expensive MTG cards I know that they will hold value or even rise, and I don't feel it will with extra ANR cards.
Never played Magic, so I have no idea about the market. Do strong Standard cards which don't get reprinted (so they stop being Standard legal) and are not Vintage/other non-rotation format strong hold their value?

Regarding Netrunner, if you want your cards to hold value, buy a whole second and third core set and don't throw away the box or rulebook. Exactly due to the way core set is done, it is a really good board game on its own and would preserve value like any other good board game. If you are not in a hurry and buy a used one in good shape or wait for a sale in an online store, you should be able to sell once you want to get out of the game for more or less the same you bught it for. Secondary market prices for expansions will probably be worse, but you need just one of those.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #108 on: January 10, 2014, 08:48:21 am »
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thing is that with expensive MTG cards I know that they will hold value or even rise, and I don't feel it will with extra ANR cards.
Never played Magic, so I have no idea about the market. Do strong Standard cards which don't get reprinted (so they stop being Standard legal) and are not Vintage/other non-rotation format strong hold their value?

Of course not, most lose quite a lot of value when they rotate out. But Standard meta shifts way more faster than other formats (with every expansion/toruney there are big changes) so prices go down and up very fast, and you can cash out on Standard-only playable cards during their stay in Standard quite easily.
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popsofctown

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2014, 01:25:43 pm »
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I still don't really get why you think Magic is "cheaper" because you can sell the cards later. 
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2014, 01:42:48 pm »
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I do not think it's cheaper (It's hellishly expensive) but I feel like I am getting more for my money worth. With third copy you are basically paying 50$ for a few cards (As you really only need third Desperado and maybe a few other, not all 11) - doesn't really end up much different that caching in for a booster box. And this is something LCG is supposted not be strictly AGAINST. I'd rather invest in singles.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2014, 02:37:44 pm »
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I do not think it's cheaper (It's hellishly expensive) but I feel like I am getting more for my money worth. With third copy you are basically paying 50$ for a few cards (As you really only need third Desperado and maybe a few other, not all 11) - doesn't really end up much different that caching in for a booster box. And this is something LCG is supposted not be strictly AGAINST. I'd rather invest in singles.

It's like saying collector stuffed animals won from a crane game spree of 50$ are more valuable than ones bought in 50$ sets with duplicates because you're paying the whole set price for the one ofs.

It's wrong because none of the stuffed animals really have any value, they are made of cotton and plastic beans. 

The crane game Beanie Babies might increase in value because the company decides to create an artificial shortage by producing no more koala bears to meet rising demand, and this way may bolster their reputation as a "true collectible". The box set of toys may or may not employ the same tactic in the future.  But over a long haul I expect one of the brands to have a healthier, stabler, happier fanbase as a result of those payment models.

I would have preferred a 3-of base set, but that small error by no means makes MTG's correctly implemented TCG better than FFG's poorly implemented LCG. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 02:39:18 pm by popsofctown »
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hsiale

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #112 on: January 12, 2014, 09:19:07 am »
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With third copy you are basically paying 50$ for a few cards
Do you live in Australia or some other place where shipping costs (or very high taxes) drive games' prices sky high? In USA coolstuffinc sells Netrunner core sets for $27. Here in Poland I can buy one for $37.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2014, 07:52:17 am »
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@pops - I was to write shit, but I am probably very MTG biased as I put a lot of money in it so I need excuses. :D

@hsiale - yeah, Serbia. Not only anything game related (that needs to be shipped) is much more expensive, also average pay/living standard makes is way lower than USA/rest of Europe, which basically makes it even MORE expensive (relatively speaking).
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #114 on: October 21, 2014, 10:20:10 am »
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Bought it at Essen last weekend and played it now three times using Jinteki vs. Shaper. It was fun, but we made still some errors, but noticed most of them during the game.

But we had one main question: What happens if the Runner runs out of cards? Is he limited to making runs and has to wait until the corp runs out of cards as well?
Also, just to be sure: The runner can't play Events during a run, right? For example the corp just rezzed a piece of ice and the runner wants to use Tinkering on it, he can't, right?

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #115 on: October 21, 2014, 10:56:59 am »
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You can't play events during runs. So you are correct.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #116 on: October 21, 2014, 11:32:06 am »
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Jinteki vs Shaper is actually not the best beginner matchup - HB and Shaper is supposed to be the best description of what it's like.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #117 on: October 25, 2014, 08:25:04 am »
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Thanks for your answers.

But I still don't know what happens if the Runner runs out of cards. With Wyldside this could happen really easily.
Also, I have a question about Djinn. Can it host virus programs previously played or only virus programs that I play after it?
Also regarding Wyldside, can I as a runner, just get rid of it whenever I like? I like it in the early game, but later you have to discard all your good cards and I don't want that effect anymore.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #118 on: October 25, 2014, 09:09:15 am »
+1

Thanks for your answers.

But I still don't know what happens if the Runner runs out of cards. With Wyldside this could happen really easily.
Also, I have a question about Djinn. Can it host virus programs previously played or only virus programs that I play after it?
Also regarding Wyldside, can I as a runner, just get rid of it whenever I like? I like it in the early game, but later you have to discard all your good cards and I don't want that effect anymore.

The runner is allowed to run out of cards.  They might run out of useful things to do, but it's not an auto-loss like it would be for the Corp.

You can only host card A on card B at the time you install card A.

You cannot just discard Wyldside whenever you like.  Some core only decks run Aesop for exactly this purpose.  You similarly cannot discard programs to free up memory—you have to find some other way to get rid of them.

This is all from memory.

Edit: Thanks Grujah—should have stuck to answering the questions!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:43:42 am by qmech »
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2014, 10:09:22 am »
+2

qmech, correction:
When you install a new program, you can trash any number of previously installed programs.

I just picked up a Core Set recently, and I am having a blast, the game is superawesome.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2014, 02:11:30 pm »
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Thanks a lot.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #121 on: September 18, 2015, 09:55:30 am »
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By the way, if anyone is still looking for a good netrunner forum, stimhack.com is really good.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #122 on: October 29, 2015, 06:10:47 pm »
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The content people post here might be good, but oh my gosh, this might be the worst forum interface I've ever attempted to use.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2015, 11:14:28 am »
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Is there a place to play this online? I don't have interested parties in the area, but I own a core set and it seems like it ought to be fun.

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #124 on: October 30, 2015, 11:34:39 am »
+1

Yes - jinteki.net is the easiest one, though OCTGN is somewhat more competitive - I'll play a game with you there to explain the site any time you want. (although it is pretty easy to understand)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #125 on: November 03, 2015, 05:24:29 pm »
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chairs, I really wouldn't recommend this game if you don't have a good local playgroup.  I feel like even more so than Magic, a lot of the magic (no pun intended) is lost in an online game.

OTOH, I have an awesome local playgroup and am quitting like all other board games for netrunner.  My town is sending like 8 people to Worlds, even.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2015, 12:03:39 pm »
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I mean, I play MtG almost exclusively online using Mumble and Jabber in conjunction with Cockatrice.

XerxesPraelor

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2015, 12:06:39 pm »
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There is something cool about having the servers laid out in front of you, but I think it's still pretty fun online.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2015, 12:12:35 pm »
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yeah I like online MTG a lot more than online Netrunner
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2015, 12:22:15 pm »
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Yeah I'm biased - I don't like MTG very much at all. (I don't like the way the mana system ramps up so that some cards are useless at the beginning and others are useless at the end) Netrunner has a much more fluid economy, and that's more fun for me. But to each their own!

Probably just try it out once or twice and see how it goes.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #130 on: November 22, 2015, 01:35:10 pm »
+1

I think netrunner is the second most popular competitive card game next to MtG, now?  And yet still a tiny dwarf compared to it.

I think the new game of thrones game will probably overtake it because it's more simplistic (as far as I can tell from watching it).  That makes me sad, it's a sad reason for netrunner not to be the premiere LCG.  Caprice would be a way better reason.

I have heard lots of rumors that FFG wants Game of Thrones, or failing that, their upcoming Lo5R, to overtake Netrunner, because the liscensing deals on those is more generous and they have to pay too heavy a proportion of the profits on Netrunner on the liscensing deal. 
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #131 on: November 22, 2015, 08:22:48 pm »
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I think netrunner is the second most popular competitive card game next to MtG, now?  And yet still a tiny dwarf compared to it.

I think the new game of thrones game will probably overtake it because it's more simplistic (as far as I can tell from watching it).  That makes me sad, it's a sad reason for netrunner not to be the premiere LCG.  Caprice would be a way better reason.

I have heard lots of rumors that FFG wants Game of Thrones, or failing that, their upcoming Lo5R, to overtake Netrunner, because the liscensing deals on those is more generous and they have to pay too heavy a proportion of the profits on Netrunner on the liscensing deal.

next to MtG and HS, tho :P
What about YGO, Pokemon?

We had some small ANR scene here locally, tho it kinda broke down now mostly cuz only a few people had more than a an expansion or two, and due to some LGS management change. :s
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2015, 04:16:40 pm »
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HS doesn't count, you can't play it with paper or play it on a tabletop.  You could bring two tablets anyplace and battle it out, but the game is not set up to where you want to, it's much more geared towards putting a deck together and seeing if you can grind out 12 out of 20 wins the next time you play ladder.

Yu Gi Oh is not bigger in my area, as far as I can tell.  Which is good, because that game sucks.  Few games are so bad that I want to hate on them.  But I feel like Yu Gi Oh is the farmville of board and card games or something.  Just awful.

PTCG is much better than Yu Gi Oh, and does pretty well.  Admittedly there are more people playing PTCG at my local game store than those playing Netrunner.  The demographic is totally different though.  Little kids are playing it, and there parents are playing it.  Which I think is kind of cool.  It's not as cerebral as Magic or Netrunner, but it still has plenty going on.  It's probably a counterexample to "Netrunner is the second most popular CCG" in some sense.  But the game is also published by WotC and is rather deliberately intended to not overlap with MtG at all.  I like to dream that one of these other little games will topple Magic, which is absolutely silly of me, I can't really dream that for PTCG.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2015, 04:18:22 pm »
+2

Captain Frisk disappeared into netrunner, for anyone who didn't know. 
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2015, 05:29:24 pm »
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HS doesn't count, you can't play it with paper or play it on a tabletop.  You could bring two tablets anyplace and battle it out, but the game is not set up to where you want to, it's much more geared towards putting a deck together and seeing if you can grind out 12 out of 20 wins the next time you play ladder.

Yu Gi Oh is not bigger in my area, as far as I can tell.  Which is good, because that game sucks.  Few games are so bad that I want to hate on them.  But I feel like Yu Gi Oh is the farmville of board and card games or something.  Just awful.

PTCG is much better than Yu Gi Oh, and does pretty well.  Admittedly there are more people playing PTCG at my local game store than those playing Netrunner.  The demographic is totally different though.  Little kids are playing it, and there parents are playing it.  Which I think is kind of cool.  It's not as cerebral as Magic or Netrunner, but it still has plenty going on.  It's probably a counterexample to "Netrunner is the second most popular CCG" in some sense.  But the game is also published by WotC and is rather deliberately intended to not overlap with MtG at all.  I like to dream that one of these other little games will topple Magic, which is absolutely silly of me, I can't really dream that for PTCG.

I agree on YGO. We have small amount of people playing, kinds mostly, but the game is horrid. I never saw anybody play Pokemons, nor know how.

MTG will be hard or impossible to topple. I do love Netrunner, but to be serious competiton to magic, it needs better torunament structure. For the small amout of time I've been following it, it changed many times, and I don't really liek any iteration.
For example, I saw if I win 7-4, you must win 7-4 next game for match win. I saw score doesn't matter, you can only gain 1,0 or 2 points in a match.
I also saw horrid example where playoffs are best of 1 - where better position player choose to be Runner or Corp. Ugh, so sucky  - esp as by playoffs you know what your opponent is playing.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2015, 07:58:57 pm »
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Just discovered Jinteki re: these posts. Pretty good interface. I've been playing around with it. Won the first game I played, but I'm unsure what the caliber of play is here.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #136 on: January 27, 2016, 04:34:31 pm »
+1

Netrunner consumes my life now.

I want to thank Makingfun that their client is so garbage that I am into a totally different game now.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #137 on: January 28, 2016, 05:56:46 am »
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I'm thinking of getting back into Netrunner now that a couple of friends started playing more and I got news about the Most Wanted list or whatever it's called. When I heard about the list, the first five cards I could think of that would fit a list like that were on it. Yog was a surprise to me as I haven't really seen it, but I guess there's been some recent Code Gates that needed breaking. Then there were some new cards that I didn't even know existed.

But I'm currently more than 1,5 whole cycles and two deluxe expansions behind.
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popsofctown

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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #138 on: January 28, 2016, 09:57:36 am »
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I'm thinking of getting back into Netrunner now that a couple of friends started playing more and I got news about the Most Wanted list or whatever it's called. When I heard about the list, the first five cards I could think of that would fit a list like that were on it. Yog was a surprise to me as I haven't really seen it, but I guess there's been some recent Code Gates that needed breaking. Then there were some new cards that I didn't even know existed.

But I'm currently more than 1,5 whole cycles and two deluxe expansions behind.
Yog is a weird fellow.  The thing is, all the red decks were running 3x Data Sucker, 3x Parasite, usually Ice Carver and occasionally Net-Ready Eyes (a cheap hardware that can give an ice breaker 1 strength temporarily).  In that kind of environment Yog becomes a strength 3 with "0: break code gate sub" and "1: +1 strength", because you have access to all these abilities that cost roughly a credit to activate and let Yog meet the strength of any Ice it needs to match.

That means it's the best codegate icebreaker for Anarchs (though Noise skipped it because he likes to do silly stuff instead of playing Netrunner).  It's actually fine that it's the best code gate icebreaker for Anarchs.  Gordian Blade is the best code gate breaker for shapers and Passport is the best code gate Icebreaker for criminals.  That's all ok.

The problem is that future design was stifled by knowing Yog.0 would just be hanging around all the time.  The design team can't make a cool neutral code gate with 3 strength, a sub "the runner draws a card, then trashes two cards from his or her grip", "The runner loses 1 credit", and "End the run" (made up example).  Because no one would ever, ever play it, because Yog is omnipresent as Anarch's best breaker.  Gordian blade doesn't stifle design this way (it stifles design for a code gate that says "When you encounter this code gate, all codegates in this server gain +2 strength", but that's much more narrow than everything strength 3).  Passport doesn't stifle design this way either.

The designer said Yog being on the list was for the sake of making new cards more so than Yog's current strength.  There's common consensus that raw power wise it's one of the weakest cards on the list of right now, but the idea is that putting it on the list is a helpful good idea going forward.


The main current impact is that you can play more Yagura, play a Viktor 1.0 and that not be awful, and counter Faust by putting Turing on a central without getting wrecked for trying to make your opponent pay credits to break ice.



It's definitely the opposite of "there's some recent Code Gates that need breaking"  4 out of the last 5 code gates release have had more than 3 strength, perhaps because design felt the need to evade Yog, and the 3 strength code gate has never touched a sleeve (and looks a bit like a funzie card that wasn't definitely supposed to)
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #139 on: January 28, 2016, 10:07:07 am »
0

That's a compelling argument. ;) My thoughts were just the first that came to my mind.

The thing is. When I played (although not nearly at a higher level) nobody really played Yog, and people hardly played code gates, except for a very select few. Pop-up Window and Tollbooth comes to mind. I think there was another NBN one, but I can't remember. I didn't really consider them not being played because of Yog or if they weren't barriers.
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Re: Android: Netrunner
« Reply #140 on: February 01, 2016, 08:58:37 pm »
0

Anyone wanna play sometime? I need to practice against RP for my upcoming tournaments, and I can't ask my friends, because, well, they're entering and would see my secrets haha
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