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Author Topic: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses  (Read 2497 times)

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SirPeebles

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Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« on: September 11, 2012, 10:02:30 pm »
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Sarcophagus
Treasure - $4

+$2

When gain this, gain a Curse.
When you discard this from play, each other player gains a curse.



Thematically, you're cursed as soon as you open the sarcophagus, but then you curse others when they are exposed to it.  As a comparison to Sea Hag, it's slower (you even curse yourself!), but it's essentially never dead since it's a silver at worst.

The "When you discard this from play" clause prevents shenanigans with Herbalist and Mandarin, and also means cursing if you use a Counterfeit or purchase a Mint.

Watchtower or Trader allows you bypass the on gain effect making Sarcophagus more appealing, but then cursing is usually a bit weaker with either of these cards on the table anyhow.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 10:10:56 pm »
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Too strong.  This is WAY faster than Sea Hag.  The on-gain Curse does not hurt that much.  Sea Hag is slow because Sea Hag does not help you at all.  When the Curses run out, Sea Hag is itself as bad as a Curse (this is why you usually don't want more than one Sea Hag).  Sarcophagus gives you one dead card, but it is also a Silver that curses.  As a Treasure, it is non-terminal.  Sea Hag + 4 Copper gets you a Silver, maybe some Kingdom card.  Sarcophagus + 4 Copper gets you a Gold.  Margrave draws Sea Hag, you're out of luck.  Margrave draws Sarcophagus, you're in business.  Draw Sea Hag with another terminal, you have to choose one or the other.  Draw Sarcophagus with another terminal, no clash at all.

This needs to be at least $5.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 10:47:26 pm »
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If you go first and open Sea Hag, and then I open Sarcophagus, and we each curse once per shuffle, I'm going lose the Curse split 4-6.  You could argue, of course, that the Sea Hag practically becomes a curse when spent, so it's comparable to a 5-6 split.  Each shuffle I encounter two curses more than you, but in exchange my curse giver is a silver, which allows more flexibility and growth.  In comparison to other curse givers, it would generally be unwise to purchase many Sarcophagi since you'll take on too many curses.

Rather than raising the price to $5, one could lower its value to $1 so that it is a cursing copper rather than a cursing silver.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 10:54:16 pm »
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This needs to be at least $5.

Agreed. Or the treasure aspect needs to be nerfed. $1? Maybe even $0.

EDIT: Ninja'd
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eHalcyon

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 11:49:07 pm »
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If you go first and open Sea Hag, and then I open Sarcophagus, and we each curse once per shuffle, I'm going lose the Curse split 4-6.  You could argue, of course, that the Sea Hag practically becomes a curse when spent, so it's comparable to a 5-6 split.  Each shuffle I encounter two curses more than you, but in exchange my curse giver is a silver, which allows more flexibility and growth.  In comparison to other curse givers, it would generally be unwise to purchase many Sarcophagi since you'll take on too many curses.

Rather than raising the price to $5, one could lower its value to $1 so that it is a cursing copper rather than a cursing silver.

If I go first and open Sarcophagus and you open Sea Hag, and we each curse once per shuffle, we'll split 5-5 except you have a dead Sea Hag and I have a Silver, plus the extra good cards I was able to buy due to having that Silver.  Even in your scenario, the Sarcophagus player only encounters ONE more dead card, because you need to count Sea Hag.  But the extra early game economy provided by Sarcophagus more than makes up for it.

You don't need to buy multiple Sarcophagi.  Since it is a Treasure, you can buy actions that increase your deck cycling, allowing you to play Sarcophagus more.  You can safely buy multiples with Trader and Watchtower, of course.

Making it a Cursing Copper is more reasonable, but it should still be tested.
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AJD

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 12:27:22 am »
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The "When you discard this from play" clause prevents shenanigans with Herbalist and Mandarin, and also means cursing if you use a Counterfeit or purchase a Mint.

Mint and Counterfeit trash from play; they don't discard from play.
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AJD

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 12:27:46 am »
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Also: should this be the rare Treasure–Attack type?
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 10:00:44 am »
+1

Also: should this be the rare Treasure–Attack type?
No. It does not give out Curses when played, but when discarded. Therefore Moat and the like won't protect you anyway.
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Davio

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 10:16:09 am »
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Since a cursing treasure can ALWAYS be played when you have it in hand, it's way way stronger than an cursing action card.

You'll never draw it dead and it keeps providing economy even after the cursing, something you need in cursing games, because economy is always scarce.

Maybe even $5 is too little, could be a 6.
I mean, Harem is a 6 and gives $2 when played with 2 VP.
How does 2 VP scale with giving curses? You only need 3 plays of this for the same VP effect with the added effect that you've ruined your opponent's deck more and your own a little more.

But making it $5 or $6 would probably defeat the designer's purpose, so you'll have to look elsewhere for the tweaking.

Even with it giving $1 instead of $2 it could still be a $5.
But making it give $0 is not really fun.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Sarcophagus: A treasure which curses
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 10:18:14 am »
+1

Also: should this be the rare Treasure–Attack type?
No. It does not give out Curses when played, but when discarded. Therefore Moat and the like won't protect you anyway.

I almost made this same post (had it halfway typed-up, actually!) but then I thought more about it... Moat will protect you. You have to reveal the Moat when Sarcophagus is played. Moat says that the attack doesn't affect you (which I believe is synonymous with "the attack card doesn't affect you"). So, that Sarcophagus cannot affect you; not while it is played and not while it is discarded or anything else.
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