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Author Topic: Combo: Scrying pool/Vault  (Read 11615 times)

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Fangz

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Combo: Scrying pool/Vault
« on: August 11, 2011, 01:39:51 pm »
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Just had an interesting game where I used this combination to overpower a couple of newbie opponents. I don't know whether this is objectively very effective, but it seems to work well.

The main idea is quite simple: scrying pool to draw a chain of actions, vault to discard them for money, scrying pool to draw them all over again. Repeat until you build up a vast amount of money, and buy lots of provinces in a turn. Vault and scrying pool by themselves are good cards, and scrying pool before the vault will help stop your opponents from drawing good cards from the vault discard and draw effect. You will also need at least one +action card to make use of this.

Secret chamber will also work, but vault is better because drawn by itself it's more useful, and it'll assist in drawing non-actions or, with a village, in hunting for those scrying pools.

Support cards:
Getting a source of +buy is essential to make use of large money rounds, and to acquire lots of scrying pools quickly. Best for this is worker's village, since with vault it'll also draw enough to avoid stalling, and it provides +action.
Cheap actions help, obviously, especially if they are non-terminals, to avoid dead hands without scrying pool in hand. Pawns or hamlets are nice. Alternatively an university or ironworks to build up on villages and so on.
Drawers and trashers make this really super powerful. Ideally you'd try to have as few non-actions in your hand as possible. Once you draw all your non-actions, you can then vault/scrying pool freely without risk, as long as you have the +actions to enable it. Buying treasures actively harms this combo.

It's hurt by curses, but mostly immune to card discarders.
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Razzishi

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Re: Combo: Scrying pool/Vault
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 10:35:18 pm »
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See http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=246.0 for previous discussion.  It is quite absurd when it gets going.  I managed to pull it off again the same day, although it hasn't come up since.  It's very susceptible to misplaying as well; for optimal results you need to be extremely careful about how you fill your discard pile and you had better make sure not to run out of actions.  At least, I've had some pretty poor turns trying to get it moving just because I messed up; it's really hard to keep track of absolutely everything you need to do to get the best effect, and you'll probably need every buy and every coin it can make because it takes a somewhat long time to pull together perfectly.

I actually prefer Secret Chamber over Vault for this deck as it's much cheaper.  You need to get a lot of different kinds of cards (Potions, Villages, Scrying Pools, other non-terminal stuff to bulk up your action density) that going for a $5 over a $2 is going to slow it down quite a bit.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 10:52:37 pm by Razzishi »
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Fangz

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Re: Combo: Scrying pool/Vault
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 11:47:52 pm »
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Darn, I looked but I didn't find the previous thread at all.

I think vault is preferable to secret chamber, however. The buying strategy with this combo should be - have potion? Get scrying pool. Don't have potion? Get vault, or village, or whatever. Secret chamber may be cheaper, but vault is a bit more forgiving since 1 vault can draw 2 remaining non-action cards at the bottom of your deck, without requiring multiple other drawers to deal with it. Vault will also help you cycle your deck a bit faster in the process of assembling the combination, and chain things up if you don't have scrying pool, especially letting you pick up things like laboratory which will make everything easier, and hit that potion more often. If I had $2 spare I'd pick up things like Hamlet or Pawn over Secret chamber.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 11:53:07 pm by Fangz »
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Fangz

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Re: Combo: Scrying pool/Vault
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 02:10:06 pm »
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Anyway here's a recent game where this worked out fairly well.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110811-091340-eb9f5ab3.html
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Deadlock39

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Re: Combo: Scrying pool/Vault
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 10:26:12 pm »
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I just got this to work, and it certainly is beautiful when it does work.  Unfortunately, I am sure it is torture for your opponent because of the time it takes to play.  As such, the second time I got a big turn my opponent resigned. 

I definitely didn't play optimally setting it up or after I had it going, but it was about to explode.  (heck, I accidentally discarded the silver I still had left on my last turn and still ended up with $19 and 5 buys) The only danger is that it would instantly fail as soon as I bought any green, so I would have needed to be careful to buy a bunch of provinces and finish off action piles I was working on at the same time.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201108/15/game-20110815-191459-5c4ff0d0.html

WanderingWinder

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Re: Combo: Scrying pool/Vault
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 10:43:43 pm »
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Heck, you didn't really need the secret chambers to make that deck go - conspirators would have done just great for you, though they are nice icing on the cake. Also golems help. That looks like a set that was really made for this kind of play, easily strong enough to overcome the sheer power of a big money-esque wharf strategy that's normally so strong. Nice game.

Deadlock39

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Re: Combo: Scrying pool/Vault
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 11:12:13 pm »
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Yea, I knew the Conspirators would make a Scrying deck all on their own, but I saw the combo and wanted to go crazy.  (Of course, even the entire stack of Conspirators could only give $20, and I nearly hit that on the last turn I got to play while I was still ramping up.)  I really screwed up on my first big turn not getting Conspirators. (Wharf was incredibly dumb beyond the first two I got when I was starting... or maybe even those two. and Caravan was completely worthless.) 

The whole set really was set up beautifully for it with Hamlet that can discard for free buys and actions only to have those cards snatched back up by the Scry.  Conspirators to get even more money after the last Chamber has been played (and a subsequent Scry) and Wharfs for even more buys if you need them and to buff you starting hand size to prevent a dead one.  I think the only thing that could have made it better would have been Chapel to get rid of the starting cards faster, but considering the buying power Moneylender gave as I was setting it up, the combo of that and Masquerade was probably about as good as anything.

I can't imagine the insanity if both players went after this strategy.  It would be crazy, first fighting for resources, and then playing chicken with being able to end the game off of the inevitable low piles.  The first person to be able to drain 3 piles and buy an Estate would win.  (Which I find hilarious since I am sure fully powered, this could buy the entire Province stack.)
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