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Author Topic: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)  (Read 4870 times)

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Graystripe77

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Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« on: September 08, 2012, 02:21:43 pm »
+1

This is the first half of cards in my expansion. All have been tested a bit, and they seem to work so far.

Facade: $1
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Place this on top of any supply pile.
----
When you buy this, +1 Buy

-A combination of my previous card, and the idea of making cards cost $1 more. It works really well.

Smuggled Goods: $4
Treasure
$1
+1 Buy
Play a treasure from the trash or supply other than Smuggled Goods. Trash it or return it to the supply. Trash this.

-A one-shot better-than-Gold-or-Platinum. So far, seems appropriately costed.

Treaty: $3
Action/Duration
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
At the start of your next turn, +1 Action, +1 Buy. While this is in play, when another player plays an attack card, it doesn't affect you.

-A villagey Lighthouse. Works pretty well.

Tailor: $2
Action
+2 Cards
When you gain or play this, shuffle a card from your discard pile into your deck.

-Weak, but not all $2's are strong. (See Moat)

Panacea: $3p
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card, OR +1 Buy, +$1, OR trash a card from your hand.

-This was in rinkworks' contest, so it may not actually end up in this expansion. Very versatile, and a very fun card.

Prospector: $5
+$1
Trash a card from your hand.
Draw up to 5 cards in hand.

-Contrary to the response this got on another topic, it's actually pretty powerful.

Cathedral: $3*
Victory
2vp
--
You may pay any amount for this, so long as you pay at least $3. When you buy this, gain a card costing at most $2 less than you paid.

-Fun tricks with this card.

Professor: $3
Action
+2 Cards
Put any number of cards from your hand on top of your deck.

-Never draw dead.

Canal: $3
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. Discard a card costing $4 or less that is not a Victory card, and gain a copy of it.

-I love this card. It's great with engines that use less expensive components.

Scribe: $2
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Name a card costing $5 or less. While this is in play, when you gain the named card, put it on top of your deck.

-So many cantrips. This one is real fun.

Merchant Banker: $4
Action/Duration
+$4
--
At the start of your next turn, discard a card.

-This card seems to be the opposite of Envoy. It hates BM decks. For some reason, it keeps hitting $7 in those games.

Missionary: $2
Action/Reaction
Trash two cards from your hand.
--
When you would gain a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing $1 more instead.

-Silverless Trader variant, that after tweaking, became nothing like Trader.

Assassin: $5
Action/Attack
+$1
Put your deck into your discard pile. Each other player gains a curse.

-The fact that this card reshuffles your deck after each turn it's played makes it easier to play more often.

Archer: $4
Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
+$1

-The vanilla card. This one is powerful, but not strong enough for $5

Bath House: $4
Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

-A real fun trasher. Not sure if it's still too powerful.

Abandoned Village: $4
Action/Reaction
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
When any player gains a Victory card, you may set this aside. If you do, gain a Silver in hand. At the start of your turn, return this to your hand.

-A Village variant with an endgame use. A weaker Village, but still a fun card.

Sneak: $3
action
+2 Actions
+$1
Each other player reveals their hand. +$1 if any cards costing $6 or more were revealed this way.

-Village that gets better late-game.

Thoughts?

Edit: Fixed SG and Missionary.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:44:56 pm by Graystripe77 »
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 06:58:16 pm »
0

Facade: $1
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Place this on top of any supply pile.
----
When you buy this, +1 Buy

This has been one of the more interesting mechanical ideas floating around, and I really like this interpretation of it. It's simple, effectual, and the buy bonus is nice. It does come with a lot of rules baggage, though.

1) If it's on top of the Silver pile, and I play Trader, do I gain it or a Silver? I think this is an intuitive enough situation: I gain Silver. That's what Trader says I gain. But it sets a precedent that causes other issues.

2) If it's on top of the Estate pile, and I play Ambassador revealing an Estate but returning none of them, does my opponent gain an Estate or a Facade? Again, the intuitive answer is to gain an Estate. Facade is, after all, not a copy of it.

3) Suppose Facade is the second card down in the Copper pile, because I returned 2 Coppers with Ambassador and only have one opponent. If I later Ambassador a Facade, can my opponent gain the one that's buried? I'd instinctively say "no", but this is where I start to think some disagreement might crop up.

These questions go on for a while. There are reasonable answers to most, but man, that's a lot of Q&A. That's why I'm a fan of adding clarification on the card for how it works. Something like "If this is on top of a Supply pile and you would gain a card from that pile, gain this instead. The same is true for trashing." I'm not even sure that covers all of the corner cases. It might also be that I've over-thought this ability since it's one of the first custom designs that intrigued me, but I think the issues are at least marginally real. I'd be very curious to hear about more testing on this card.

Smuggled Goods: $4
Treasure
$1
+1 Buy
Play a treasure from the trash or supply. Trash it or return it to the supply. Trash this.

Play this, play a copy of it from the supply, play another copy, trash the whole pile in one stroke. Needs a different mechanic.

Treaty: $3
Action/Duration
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
At the start of your next turn, +1 Action, +1 Buy. While this is in play, when another player plays an attack card, it doesn't affect you.

Fair enough, but treads a bit on Lighthouse's shoes. There's a reason none of the other reaction cards just Moat attacks, for instance.

Tailor: $2
Action
+2 Cards
When you gain or play this, shuffle a card from your discard pile into your deck.

It's a pet peeve of mine when cards add excessive shuffling to a game. It's so much busy work and is the number one thing slowing play down. I'd like this more if if just triggered on the buy, that way there's a limited amount of extra forced shuffling. I mean, Chancellor exists, so there's an argument the other way. And the game already shuffles way more than almost any card game I've ever played. So take that for what you will. Overall, I really do like the function.

Panacea: $3p
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card, OR +1 Buy, +$1, OR trash a card from your hand.

One of the reasons I like Pawn is because it's a challenging card to play well. This version strips a bit of that, since the cantrip takes away much of the concern. That does make it simpler to play though, which is a nice feature. Not a big fan of it being to only Potion card in the set. Instead of that, you could add another condition for buying it. "As an additional cost to buy this, discard a Duchy." There's all sorts of things you can do, albeit less elegant unless you want to make a theme of it.

Prospector: $5
+$1
Trash a card from your hand.
Draw up to 5 cards in hand.

The +$1 sorta sticks out. You say the card is powerful, so I wonder if it's necessary. I really like the idea: the trashing is an excellent theme to weave into a Library variant.

Cathedral: $3*
Victory
2vp
--
You may pay any amount for this, so long as you pay at least $3. When you buy this, gain a card costing at most $2 less than you paid.

I like the idea behind this card, but not the wording. If I understand correctly, if I pay $4 for this, I can gain an Estate? I had to read it a number of times before being rather certain about that. It's also awkward that you have to spend $3 on this even with a three Highways out. I'm not sure how best to approach it. The concept could be interesting: it's basically a flexible Border Village.

Professor: $3
Action
+2 Cards
Put any number of cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Tough to judge the power on this one. I feel like Courtyard would be better in a huge amount of situations, but I wonder if it is in enough to obsolete this. Either way, I think this can exist fine at $2.

Canal: $3
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. Discard a card costing $4 or less that is not a Victory card, and gain a copy of it.

I like it! Sorta like a Workshop that doesn't waste your action for the turn... but then again, it sorta does. Seems like it could be great with kingdoms that cantrip a lot but don't village up.

Scribe: $2
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Name a card costing $5 or less. While this is in play, when you gain the named card, put it on top of your deck.

Seems like a simple enough card and a generally good idea. How differently does it play from Royal Seal? I feel like this should live at a higher cost. Notice the similarities to Scheme.

Merchant Banker: $4
Action/Duration
+$4
--
At the start of your next turn, discard a card.

Not much to say. The "big turn at the cost of a small turn" theme has proven well in the past.

Missionary: $2
Action/Reaction
Trash two cards from your hand.
--
When you gain a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing $1 more instead.

Very interesting card. It took a while for the theme to sink in, but I like it now that it's there. It's neat that your trasher still has a use later in the game, in exchange for being a weaker trasher to being with.

Assassin: $5
Action/Attack
+$1
Put your deck into your discard pile. Each other player gains a curse.

That's evil. I wonder if this could just go the Sea Hag route and not provide coins at all.

Archer: $4
Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
+$1

Gotta get all those available combinations while they're still out there!

Bath House: $4
Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash one or three cards from your hand.

Hmmm... I'm lost on what to think of this. The variable trashing is interesting if nothing else.

Abandoned Village: $4
Action/Reaction
+1 Card
+2 Actions
--
When any player gains a Victory card, you may set this aside. If you do, gain a Silver in hand. At the start of your turn, return this to your hand.

Awkward in games with no +Buy. I mean, not that awkward: you buy a Duchy, you set this aside, your Silver goes to hand, you discard your hand, Abandoned Village comes back. I just mean that the Silver going to your hand won't mean anything sometimes, which is fine, that happens to all cards. Just not so obviously.

Sneak: $3
action
+2 Actions
+$1
Each other player reveals their hand. +$1 if any cards costing $6 or more were revealed this way.

Very reasonable. It's a nice enough way to work toward the endgame, and the improvement is simple and nice. One of my favorites in the lot.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 06:59:40 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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AJD

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 07:32:27 pm »
0

Missionary: $2
Action/Reaction
Trash two cards from your hand.
--
When you gain a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing $1 more instead.

would gain
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AJD

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 07:35:46 pm »
0

Facade: $1
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Place this on top of any supply pile.
----
When you buy this, +1 Buy

This has been one of the more interesting mechanical ideas floating around, and I really like this interpretation of it. It's simple, effectual, and the buy bonus is nice. It does come with a lot of rules baggage, though.

1) If it's on top of the Silver pile, and I play Trader, do I gain it or a Silver? I think this is an intuitive enough situation: I gain Silver. That's what Trader says I gain. But it sets a precedent that causes other issues.

We already have rules for what happens when a card is in the Supply somewhere, but not the top card of any pile. You gain nothing.

Quote
2) If it's on top of the Estate pile, and I play Ambassador revealing an Estate but returning none of them, does my opponent gain an Estate or a Facade? Again, the intuitive answer is to gain an Estate. Facade is, after all, not a copy of it.

Your opponent gains nothing. Cf. the case where you Ambassador a Ruins that doesn't match the one on top of the pile.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 08:42:22 pm »
0

Ah, okay. To my knowledge, Dark Ages is the first time we've had this interaction.

Graystripe77

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 08:43:35 pm »
0

Facade Clarification: Unless a card specifically names another card, you must get the Facade off of the pile before obtaining anything under it. Also, will edit some wording when this is actually going to be printed.
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AJD

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 08:56:03 pm »
0

Facade Clarification: Unless a card specifically names another card, you must get the Facade off of the pile before obtaining anything under it. Also, will edit some wording when this is actually going to be printed.

I'm not clear on what you mean by this. Do you intend it to work the same way Ruins and Knights do, or differently?
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Graystripe77

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 09:25:03 pm »
0

Facade Clarification: Unless a card specifically names another card, you must get the Facade off of the pile before obtaining anything under it. Also, will edit some wording when this is actually going to be printed.

I'm not clear on what you mean by this. Do you intend it to work the same way Ruins and Knights do, or differently?

I dunno, I haven't played or looked at DA much.
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AJD

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2012, 09:50:28 pm »
0

Facade Clarification: Unless a card specifically names another card, you must get the Facade off of the pile before obtaining anything under it. Also, will edit some wording when this is actually going to be printed.

I'm not clear on what you mean by this. Do you intend it to work the same way Ruins and Knights do, or differently?

I dunno, I haven't played or looked at DA much.

A card that's not on top of a supply pile is essentially not in the supply at all (until it's back on top); you can't gain one for any reason. So if Facade is on Silver, then Bureaucrats, Traders, and so on will fizzle and gain nothing, just as if the Silver pile were empty.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:59:54 pm by AJD »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2012, 11:35:45 pm »
+1

Facade Clarification: Unless a card specifically names another card, you must get the Facade off of the pile before obtaining anything under it. Also, will edit some wording when this is actually going to be printed.

I'm not clear on what you mean by this. Do you intend it to work the same way Ruins and Knights do, or differently?

I dunno, I haven't played or looked at DA much.

You should look at it.  As fan card creators, it's on us to ensure that our cards fit properly with existing cards.  With the release of DA, fan cards that were balanced before might not be any more.  For example, suppose you had created a fan card that was properly priced before, but a new card is released at the same price point that has a strictly inferior effect.  Well, now your fan card needs a price increase, or a complete revamp.

Or maybe a fan card has some quirky rules interaction, and you envision it to work a certain way.  A new card is released that has a similar mechanic, but the rules work differently.  Depending on the specific situation, it might mean you need to change your card to match the official mechanic.

This definitely looks like a situation where you should bring it in line with the Ruins mechanics.
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Grujah

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2012, 05:16:10 am »
0

Thing with Facade is that you can empty it in one go.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2012, 05:57:06 pm »
+1

Thing with Facade is that you can empty it in one go.
Sure, for $10.
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Polk5440

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2012, 11:11:57 pm »
0

Nice cards, overall. Here are some thoughts I had reading over the cards:

Treaty: $3
Action/Duration
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
At the start of your next turn, +1 Action, +1 Buy. While this is in play, when another player plays an attack card, it doesn't affect you.

Fair enough, but treads a bit on Lighthouse's shoes. There's a reason none of the other reaction cards just Moat attacks, for instance.

Tailor: $2
Action
+2 Cards
When you gain or play this, shuffle a card from your discard pile into your deck.

It's a pet peeve of mine when cards add excessive shuffling to a game. It's so much busy work and is the number one thing slowing play down.

Agree on both cards. Also, Treaty read as just too strong to me.

Quote
Prospector: $5
+$1
Trash a card from your hand.
Draw up to 5 cards in hand.

This is too close to Jack of All Trades. I can't see myself ever playing fan cards that are too close to existing cards because of the increased set up costs and lack of pretty art!

Quote
Professor: $3
Action
+2 Cards
Put any number of cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Cool card. Might be my favorite of the bunch. But will it really play that much differently than Courtyard, which it needs to in order to justify its existence?

Quote
Canal: $3
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. Discard a card costing $4 or less that is not a Victory card, and gain a copy of it.

Is it a problem that this cards shares its name with a card with which I won one of rinkworks's challenges (the Victory Card challenge)?

Quote
Merchant Banker: $4
Action/Duration
+$4
--
At the start of your next turn, discard a card.

I like the idea, but I don't think the penalty is severe enough. I mean, Mandarin makes you put a card back on your deck this turn (which is sometimes worse than discarding), only gives you +$3, and costs $5. Much of the time with Merchant Banker you can discard a Victory card or Copper and that doesn't hurt that much.

Quote
Assassin: $5
Action/Attack
+$1
Put your deck into your discard pile. Each other player gains a curse.

I like it.

Quote
Sneak: $3
action
+2 Actions
+$1
Each other player reveals their hand. +$1 if any cards costing $6 or more were revealed this way.

This card just has too much revealing for my taste. Everyone has to show their whole hand? At some point there are going to be so many cards that ask players to reveal their hand, we may as well play with our cards laid out on the table!
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Graystripe77

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2012, 09:02:08 am »
0

Thanks for the insight, Polk. But I have say, why do people keep comparing Prospector to JoaT? they play nothing similar to each other, even if they look similar.
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Polk5440

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2012, 11:32:44 am »
+1

Thanks for the insight, Polk. But I have say, why do people keep comparing Prospector to JoaT? they play nothing similar to each other, even if they look similar.

Really? I am surprised.

Instead of getting a Silver and a Spy-effect you get +$1 now, so I get why that could be stronger or weaker depending. That has the benefit that it's simpler, I'll give it that, and simpler is usually better. The order you trash/draw is reversed, giving you one extra card, so I get why this is at $5.

My thinking was:
1) Big Money -Jack and Big Money- Prospector would be similar in implementation; just with prospector you are more likely to be buying a Gold earlier while Jack just gains you a Silver. But maybe this would play differently...
2) Both have the option of giving you a 5 card hand after a play which is a great counter to discard attacks.
3) What I would trash and when probably wouldn't differ Oh, wait -- I completely missed that Prospector lets you trash anything but Jack doesn't let you trash Treasure! And you must trash with Prospector...

OK. I get why it's significantly different now. I just read it too quickly. Now that I think about it more, I do like it as is.
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ConMan

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 12:42:56 am »
0

Thing with Facade is that you can empty it in one go.
Sure, for $10.
Although one Bridge or Highway would solve that problem (and make for some crazy strategy if you're planning to use it to three-pile).
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Graystripe77

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Re: Fan Expansion: Control Freak (1st Half)
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2012, 01:00:29 pm »
0

Thing with Facade is that you can empty it in one go.
Sure, for $10.
Although one Bridge or Highway would solve that problem (and make for some crazy strategy if you're planning to use it to three-pile).

Actually, this makes games really interesting, and unlike I thought, it adds more than it takes away from the strategy. You have to be really careful about 3-piles, though.
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