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Author Topic: Translations  (Read 37381 times)

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Oyvind

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Re: Translations
« Reply #225 on: April 19, 2018, 12:25:49 pm »
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Well, I did get the file for Prosperity several years after it was published. I proofread the rulebook and had lots of comments, even suggesting ways of making it better. I was so depressed going through it, that I never even got going for the cards themselves (except for the probably known issues of different fonts, Stash saying "Myntkort" at the bottom, while all the other treasures simply saying "Mynt", all-capital or all-lowercase letters on a host of card titles, differences like "kort på hånden" og "håndkort", etc.), if you discount that I already mentioned the functional error on Biskop.

What did the original Tyv and Park say? My printing of these seem fine (N-22024860), though they're still kind of poorly translated.

There were lots of things I would change, mind you, but I don't think I saw any other functional errors, or I've forgotten all about them (as I don't read the Norwegian cards anymore).

Yeah, I also found many, many things to improve in the Empires rulebook. The good thing is that I got paid for it that time. (With Intrigue it was voluntary.) Maybe next time they'll give me the translation job from scratch, but it seems that they have no more plans for Dominion.

Original Tyv used "may" ("kan") for trashing opponents' Treasures!
Original Park was an Action card (Befalingskort). I assume the translator thought it was simpler if Kingdom cards and Action cards were the same thing. In the rules there was no distinction between the two.

Hahah, I certainly didn’t see those!

I made a quick scan now, and found several other errors that I already mentioned for Vennerød. Seems like my memory failed me. But anyway, your tale is both hilarious and scary.
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WQB

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Re: Translations
« Reply #226 on: April 19, 2018, 04:56:49 pm »
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The german translation for „Jack of all Trades“ is „Lebenskünstler“. I would translate „Lebenskünstler“ with „Survivalist“.
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #227 on: April 20, 2018, 03:10:35 am »
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The german translation for „Jack of all Trades“ is „Lebenskünstler“. I would translate „Lebenskünstler“ with „Survivalist“.

So would Google, which doesn't make it a good translation. If you translate round-robin, you get "Überlebenskünster", which is something different. A "Lebenskünstler" is a bonvivant on a budget, a Diogenes in the barrel.

A direct translation would be the dated "Hans Dampf in allen Gassen" which doesn't really fit the title space. "Multitalent" might have been an apt translation. But I am fine with "Lebenskünstler" as it fits the image of Roadside Jack.
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #228 on: April 20, 2018, 03:24:20 am »
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I am not really satisfied with the recent German translations. "Cobbler" was translated with "Schuster", which is technically correct but doesn't fit the image. An obvious choice for a night phase would have been "Heinzelmännchen", the folks who come out and night and do the handiwork. Also "Geschenk des Waldes/der Flamme" etc. is a "present" for birthday. The more spiritual meaning of "gift" would translate as "Gabe".

The trash for something better cards, which with the exception of Butcher are titled with verbs, have in most cases been named with words ending on "-bau". Dismantle could have been titled in the same vein as "Rückbau" which is admittedly a more technocratic expression for "Abbruch" (Teardown) but would have fit the scheme.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Translations
« Reply #229 on: April 20, 2018, 05:37:51 am »
+2

I've been looking through the list of cards in other languages, and one thing I find very funny is that Walled Village is called Carcassonne in German, but not in French.
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Jeebus

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Re: Translations
« Reply #230 on: April 20, 2018, 10:03:43 am »
+1

At least the Norwegian translations have done a pretty good job with the flavor part - the card names and such. I would say that getting the actual rules right is slightly more important though.

Jeebus

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Re: Translations
« Reply #231 on: April 20, 2018, 10:30:31 am »
+1

Looking at the notes I wrote to the Norwegian publisher about Intrigue (which as I mentioned I still haven't checked if they followed), I found the following.

In the section about the three piles to end the game, it was explained as "Treasure, Victory and Action cards". (Of course Curse was missing.) I recommended writing "kingdom cards" instead of "Action cards". Although no Kingdom cards existed that were not either Treasure, Victory or Action, I theorized that in the future there might be some. My theory was actually not confirmed until Nocturne!

Oyvind

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Re: Translations
« Reply #232 on: April 20, 2018, 05:50:41 pm »
+1

At least the Norwegian translations have done a pretty good job with the flavor part - the card names and such. I would say that getting the actual rules right is slightly more important though.

I agree. I’ve commended and applauded them several times for their ability to use flavorful card titles. That was a big reason for my fascination with the game when I first started out. If they would keep off the flavor path for the mechanical game texts on each card, that would’ve been much better, but I’m so happy we have cards like Skarpretter, Renkesmed, Sjarlatan, etc.!

All in all I’m extremely thankful for what Vennerød has done for the game! I’m also thankful for the fact that they listen to their customer base as much as they do. Very sad that they seem to have given up on Dominion, more or less, but I actually think the release of the 2nd edition acted as a nail in their Dominion coffin. They probably need to release those before releasing the other sets (now that the original boxes are as good as obsolete), and that is, of course, very expensive in such a little country with so small print runs. They probably still have a lot of 1st ed. boxes that suddenly became much less attractive. And that could probably kill the company, if it was a little smaller.

Luckily they’re not dependent on Dominion to survive in the industry, but it’s really sad for fans of the game like you and me. It’s so much easier to spread the gospel with Norwegian cards in Norway. In your absence this year, I’ll probably arrange the Norwegian Dominion Championship 2018 at Arcon. Details are not finalized, but I’ve been in contact with Knut about it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 06:26:16 pm by Oyvind »
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Oyvind

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Re: Translations
« Reply #233 on: April 20, 2018, 06:24:59 pm »
+1

Looking at the notes I wrote to the Norwegian publisher about Intrigue (which as I mentioned I still haven't checked if they followed), I found the following.

In the section about the three piles to end the game, it was explained as "Treasure, Victory and Action cards". (Of course Curse was missing.) I recommended writing "kingdom cards" instead of "Action cards". Although no Kingdom cards existed that were not either Treasure, Victory or Action, I theorized that in the future there might be some. My theory was actually not confirmed until Nocturne!

Well, the Norwegian Intrigue rulebook now says: «The game ends at the end of a player’s turn if one of these conditions are met: Either that the Province pile is empty, or that three other piles are empty (treasures, victory cards, kingdom cards. curse cards).» The period inside the brackets isn’t a typo on my part, by the way, and is probably there because you reminded them of the curse pile counting for a three-pile ending. This is kind of awkward to read, I think. Extraneous words and a dubious sentence at best. And why did they specify «other» piles? While I guess it’s technically correct (if Province is among the first three piles to empty, the Province pile IS empty, so the game would end either way), it seems unnecessary and out of place, as a reference to three empty piles or an empty Province pile, in that order, mind you, like the English rules say, is both much simpler and much shorter: «The game ends after 3 piles are empty or the Province pile is empty». I think they should’ve removed the brackets altogether. People would understand, I think.
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Jeebus

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Re: Translations
« Reply #234 on: April 20, 2018, 06:41:28 pm »
+1

Well, the Norwegian Intrigue rulebook now says: «The game ends at the end of a player’s turn if one of these conditions are met: Either that the Province pile is empty, or that three other piles are empty (treasures, victory cards, kingdom cards. curse cards).» The period inside the brackets isn’t a typo on my part, by the way, and is probably there because you reminded them of the curse pile counting for a three-pile ending. This is kind of awkward to read, I think. Extraneous words and a dubious sentence at best. And why did they specify «other» piles? While I guess it’s technically correct (if Province is among the first three piles to empty, the Province pile IS empty, so the game would end either way), it seems unnecessary and out of place, as a reference to three empty piles or an empty Province pile, in that order, mind you, like the English rules say, is both much simpler and much shorter: «The game ends after 3 piles are empty or the Province pile is empty». I think they should’ve removed the brackets altogether. People would understand, I think.

I'm amazed that "curse cards" was just added after the period, and nobody even proofread it before print (or it seems not anyway). I don't think adding "other" is that bad, but it's sad that they're not putting a little more effort into making the rules clear and precise.

ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #235 on: April 23, 2018, 03:27:23 am »
+1

I’m so happy we have cards like Skarpretter, Renkesmed, Sjarlatan, etc.!

Renkesmed sounds great to German ears too, but it would be a bit more fitting if the primary function would be card drawing. After all, it's a smed (smith, I guess), if only in a figurative sense. To my mind, Diplomat would be a good renkesmed.

I don't know if Skarpretter means the same as German Scharfrichter, but that would be an executioner, whose purpose is beheading, not torturing.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 03:30:50 am by ipofanes »
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Oyvind

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Re: Translations
« Reply #236 on: April 25, 2018, 08:11:37 pm »
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I’m so happy we have cards like Skarpretter, Renkesmed, Sjarlatan, etc.!

Renkesmed sounds great to German ears too, but it would be a bit more fitting if the primary function would be card drawing. After all, it's a smed (smith, I guess), if only in a figurative sense. To my mind, Diplomat would be a good renkesmed.

I don't know if Skarpretter means the same as German Scharfrichter, but that would be an executioner, whose purpose is beheading, not torturing.

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I like your take on this. I agree that the Scharfrichter’s main purpose was to execute murderers and enemies to the throne (by axe or sword, unlike the Büttel who usually used other methods like hanging), but I had to look it up when I saw the Norwegian card title, as I too disagreed with the translators a bit. I learnt a lot, and I feel that the card name is actually very fitting after all. They’re mostly known for their executions, that’s true, but that was only a part of their job. You can only execute so many, you know. A lot of their work, in Norway at least, included interrogation and/or branding of criminals and cutting off of hands/fingers and the like. I don’t know if German Scharfrichters did the same, but in Norway, I think they could qualify as Torturers. Besides, the name is evocative (and we frankly have few alternative words in Norwegian).

As for Renkesmed: Like you said, the name implies smithing in a figurative sense, as they kind of forge chains of rumors and gossip. As they draw when a lot is going on (3+ actions in the same round), I think it’s kind of appropriate. They need help from other Conspirators to make solid chains, so a single such ‘smith’ shouldn’t draw a lot. I like the fact that with more things going on in your kingdom, the conspiracies thrive.

I guess my main point is that they’ve found old-fashioned words that have actually been used a lot in Norway, and to me at least, they’re dramatic and evocative.
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #237 on: April 26, 2018, 02:55:17 am »
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Hm, a Renkesmed I would expect to spread rumours and gossip, whereas a Conspirator would be someone I would expect to be very silent about the matter connected with his clandestine plans.
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Jeebus

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Re: Translations
« Reply #238 on: April 26, 2018, 11:24:55 am »
+1

Hm, a Renkesmed I would expect to spread rumours and gossip, whereas a Conspirator would be someone I would expect to be very silent about the matter connected with his clandestine plans.

"Renkesmed" translates to "schemer, intriguer", so it's pretty accurate. A synonym in Norwegien is "intrigemaker". It also has a connotation of spreading rumors in order to further one's plans, but doing so secretly, which is what Oyvind is talking about. I don't know if that connotation is specifically Norwegian and not English/American, but I remember the word "renkesmed" being used that way when I heard it more (some decades ago - it's pretty outdated now).

Oyvind

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Re: Translations
« Reply #239 on: April 26, 2018, 04:55:44 pm »
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Hm, a Renkesmed I would expect to spread rumours and gossip, whereas a Conspirator would be someone I would expect to be very silent about the matter connected with his clandestine plans.

"Renkesmed" translates to "schemer, intriguer", so it's pretty accurate. A synonym in Norwegien is "intrigemaker". It also has a connotation of spreading rumors in order to further one's plans, but doing so secretly, which is what Oyvind is talking about. I don't know if that connotation is specifically Norwegian and not English/American, but I remember the word "renkesmed" being used that way when I heard it more (some decades ago - it's pretty outdated now).

Most definitely. These are covert operations, and they have a very specific purpose for the Renkesmed.
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #240 on: May 22, 2018, 01:03:13 pm »
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Are there any Portuguese speakers here?  I can't seem to find Portuguese translations anywhere, though they seem to have done the 2nd editions of Base and Intrigue.
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