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werothegreat

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Translations
« on: September 07, 2012, 10:39:32 am »
+2

Languages interest me very much.  So, while trying to find the German translations for the Dark Ages cards (for my own diversion), which don't seem to be published yet, I came across something I had seen before - the translations for the other cards.  Handelsposten (Trading Post) still makes me laugh hysterically.  But one thing I found curious was the translation for Ill-Gotten Gains: Blutzoll.  I tried putting this into a German/English dictionary, but it didn't come up.  So I tried de.wikipedia, but it sent me to a disambiguation page, and my German is not good enough to figure out what was said there.  Trying Wiktionary, no page came up, but what did come up was a search result for "death toll" - for which the German translation is "Blutzoll."  Turns out it's a compound word (which, if you're not aware, happens a hell of a lot in German).  The two compounds here are "Blut" (blood) and "Zoll" (toll).  So literally, the translation for Ill-Gotten Gains is "Blood Tax."  That's very disturbing.  Thanks, Germans.
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Watno

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Re: Translations
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 10:43:20 am »
+1

What's funny about Handelsposten?

Also, the German name of Loan is "Lohn", which doesn't mean Loan, but Wage. The publisher stated in the rulebook that they deliberately translated it that way because they thought it was more fitting.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 10:47:36 am by Watno »
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 10:46:52 am »
+2

What's funny about Handelsposten?

It's such a funny word to say!  Especially in a German accent.  HANDELSPOSTEN.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 10:55:37 am »
+3

What's funny about Handelsposten?

It's such a funny word to say!  Especially in a German accent.  HANDELSPOSTEN.

This is also true of all words spoken in a German accent though...
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Re: Translations
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2012, 10:58:37 am »
0

This is also true of all words spoken in a German accent though...

I love hearing "Schadenfreude." That's a fun word!

And it could pass for a not-quite-literal translation of Torturer.
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Watno

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Re: Translations
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2012, 11:06:26 am »
0

Oh Torturer is "Kerkermeister", which translates to Jailor. I think the reasoning was that they didn't see torturing is an appropriate theme.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Translations
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2012, 11:25:37 am »
+14

Some Dutch translations are awful. "Familiar" was translated into "Oude Bekende" which means "Old acquaintance"...
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Re: Translations
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2012, 01:53:08 pm »
+2

Some Dutch translations are awful. "Familiar" was translated into "Oude Bekende" which means "Old acquaintance"...

I guess they were technically correct...
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2012, 02:04:40 pm »
+4

Someone got a bit too familiar with their Familiar.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2012, 02:34:26 pm »
+5

What's funny about Handelsposten?
Yeah, composers can't have blogs?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2012, 02:40:16 pm »
+3

Who here would play Dominion if all the names were re-translations of bad translations?  I know I would.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2012, 09:05:52 pm »
0

Also, the German name of Loan is "Lohn", which doesn't mean Loan, but Wage. The publisher stated in the rulebook that they deliberately translated it that way because they thought it was more fitting.
Arg! I have to think about this every time I see Loan on the board. And who believes they did it on purpose? It's definitely the worst translation of a card name in German.

Ill-Gotten Gains: Blutzoll.
I like the term IGG so much. "Blutzoll" has a completly different meaning, the one you already pointed out. But to be honest, I have no idea how to translate it better. As far as i know, a term like ill-gotten gains does not exist in German.

Turns out it's a compound word (which, if you're not aware, happens a hell of a lot in German).
True. German is not a nice language. Very hard to learn, too. The best thing of our language is the possibility to build infinite long compound words.
If you like this, you should have a look on this word: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbarbärbel.
The tranlation would be something like "Rhubarb Barbara(name) bar barbarian beard barber beer bar Bärbel(name)". :)

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kn1tt3r

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Re: Translations
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2012, 02:41:45 am »
0

I think most translations are quite reasonable. I couldn't have come up with a better translation for IGG than Blutzoll, and the Loan-Lohn thing was done knowing that it's wrong, but it fit the picture, and "Kredit" feels far too modern to put on a Dominion card.

What annoys me most I think is the translation of Salvager. I mean, really? Müllverwerter??? Ok, Salvager CAN mean something like that, but this feels so wrong looking at the picture...
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2012, 09:47:48 am »
+1

I think most translations are quite reasonable. I couldn't have come up with a better translation for IGG than Blutzoll, and the Loan-Lohn thing was done knowing that it's wrong, but it fit the picture, and "Kredit" feels far too modern to put on a Dominion card.

What annoys me most I think is the translation of Salvager. I mean, really? Müllverwerter??? Ok, Salvager CAN mean something like that, but this feels so wrong looking at the picture...

...waste management company?
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Watno

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Re: Translations
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 11:49:14 am »
0

Pretty much, except it's not a company, but a person.

New Highlight: According to a BGG image, the German version of Dark Ages will be called "Darkages", which doesn't even resemble any german word.
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2012, 01:11:29 am »
+3

Looking at French translations, I came across some fun ones:

Touche-a-tout (Jack of all Trades): Literally, a touch of everything.

Maquignons (Horse Traders): I find it hilarious that the French have a distinct, non-compound word for "Horse Dealer."  Apparently it can also mean a shady dealer.  This inspired me to look up a reason for this, and came across Wikipedia (of course): "Due to the difficulties in evaluating the merits of a horse offered for sale, the selling of horses offered great opportunities for dishonesty. It was expected that horse sellers would capitalize on these opportunities and so those who dealt in horses gained a reputation for shady business practices."  And "Reflecting this attitude, the term horse trading was widely adopted as a way to describe what might be seen as unethical business practices in a more positive light."  I think this is where we get the phrase "I've got to see a man about a horse."

Brocanteur (Junk Dealer): A second-hand goods dealer.  Man, these French are on a roll with these distinct root words.

Malfaiteurs (Band of Misfits): Literally "criminals."  I guess the French don't think very highly of those possessed of flexible talents.

Fou (Madman): Man, but these French are literal!

Chaudronnier (Coppersmith): Literally "boilermaker."  Wut.

Escroc (Swindler): Just a fun word to say!

Larbin (Minion): "Dogsbody" LOL

Phare (Lighthouse): Obviously derived from the Greek "pharos/φάρος."  A very pretty word.

Taudis (Shanty Town): "Hovel" or "pigsty."  Delightful.
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werothegreat

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Re: Translations
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2012, 01:16:28 am »
+2

It might be cool to have these translation quirks put into the wiki.  An "in other languages" section or something.  Or perhaps just some context behind the meaning - Horse Traders obviously has more context than the buying and selling of hoofed mammals.
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2012, 02:57:18 am »
+2

I think most translations are quite reasonable. I couldn't have come up with a better translation for IGG than Blutzoll, and the Loan-Lohn thing was done knowing that it's wrong, but it fit the picture, and "Kredit" feels far too modern to put on a Dominion card.

What annoys me most I think is the translation of Salvager. I mean, really? Müllverwerter??? Ok, Salvager CAN mean something like that, but this feels so wrong looking at the picture...

My translation for IGG would be "Schwarzgeld" or "Judaslohn" or "unrecht' Gut". Blutzoll is just wrong.

I can't think of a German word for "Familiar", didn't know before long that there is a word for "animal companion". My stab at Familiar would have been "Gefährte".

"Lohn" fits the picture, I have no qualms with that.

What I like about the German version is that all upgrading-type cards (expressed in verbs in English) end in "-bau". Wonder how long they'll keep that up. I think they will bend in on "Procession", but Überbau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure) would be a nice, if liberal, translation. A real blunder is the Dutch translation to "Remake", which is something like "Version 2.0". It should obviously have been translated with a verb.

A more literal translation to "JoaT" would be "Hans Dampf in allen Gassen" (Hans Steam in all alleys), "Lebenskünstler" (bohemien, bon vivant) fits the picture though.

"Minion" would have been better translated with "Günstling" or "Hofschranze". "Lakai" is closer to "Lackey" in meaning.

Oh yes, and "Dark Ages" should have been "Finstre Zeiten" (bracing for a cease and decist by Friedemann Friese) or "Harte Zeiten" ("hard times").

"Kerkermeister" does its job with the picture and gives a good cue to an old Erste Allgemeine Verunsicherung song.

I can't really think of a good translation to "Salvager", maybe "Bergung". ("Berger" would sound too much like a surname, there is no tradition of having verbs as card titles in the German version so "bergen" doesn't fit, and "Schatztaucher" next to "Perlentaucher" would be too bland.)

"Pferdehändler" has similar connotations as "Horse Traders". You can even insult a used car salesman calling him "Pferdehändler" or "Teppichhändler".
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 03:07:51 am by ipofanes »
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2012, 03:12:42 am »
0

Chaudronnier (Coppersmith): Literally "boilermaker."  Wut.

When I think of a coppersmith, I would not expect somebody making coins but rather making roof tiles or cauldrons. Maybe someone in demand of copper, thus driving up the price of it?
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Re: Translations
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2012, 04:08:23 am »
+1

A real blunder is the Dutch translation to "Remake", which is something like "Version 2.0". It should obviously have been translated with a verb.

Another huge blunder is Forge: translated as Vervalsen which is a verb that translates into forge, but in the sense of "making fake copies of something", like forging paintings, diamonds or ID's. While the art and card mechanic clearly suggest that Forge is meant as "melting furnace", so Smeltoven would have been better. I ran into Forge on Iso before IRL, and it befuddled me completely, I really had to think deeply about which card I was staring at...:)
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Re: Translations
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2012, 04:23:31 am »
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The bad thing about the Swedish edition is that there's a typo on the Duchy card. It says "Hertigöme" instead of "Hertigdöme".

Is it the same with other translated editions that the inlay isn't changed, so the cards are not in alphabetical order but in the same order as in the English edition?
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2012, 04:48:29 am »
+1

The bad thing about the Swedish edition is that there's a typo on the Duchy card. It says "Hertigöme" instead of "Hertigdöme".

Ah, I was wondering what the isotropic name meant.

Quote
Is it the same with other translated editions that the inlay isn't changed, so the cards are not in alphabetical order but in the same order as in the English edition?

Not in the German edition, where the order is price - (German) name by alphabet.
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2012, 04:51:39 am »
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Another huge blunder is Forge: translated as Vervalsen which is a verb that translates into forge, but in the sense of "making fake copies of something", like forging paintings, diamonds or ID's. While the art and card mechanic clearly suggest that Forge is meant as "melting furnace", so Smeltoven would have been better. I ran into Forge on Iso before IRL, and it befuddled me completely, I really had to think deeply about which card I was staring at...:)

Whew. Obviously the translators didn't get to look at the cards, the card texts, let alone to play the game.

The German translation reads "Kunstschmiede", mainly because "Schmiede" was already taken for "Smithy"; but "Schmelze" would have been more fitting.
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Re: Translations
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2012, 06:37:42 am »
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Yes, french translations are sometimes weird.

"Ill-Gotten gains" is translated "Argent noir" ("black money").
"Jack of all trades" is really an untranslatable word. "Touche à tout" is not bad, but I would just have called it "Jack" ^^
"Death cart" is another problem to translate. It is translated "charette de cadavre", I've never heard this term...

There are also long and painful words to say : "Diseuse de bonne aventure" (fortune teller), "Hôtel de la monnaie" (Mint) ...

Oh, and "Urchin" = Orphelin (Orphan). Is it really a correct translation ?
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ipofanes

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Re: Translations
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2012, 07:02:15 am »
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Yes, french translations are sometimes weird.

"Ill-Gotten gains" is translated "Argent noir" ("black money").
"Jack of all trades" is really an untranslatable word. "Touche à tout" is not bad, but I would just have called it "Jack" ^^

Well, my suggestion for the German Translation was "Schwarzgeld", which has literally the same meaning. Don't know about the connotations in French though.

Look at my remarks to "Jack of all Trades" and my re-translation attempts of "Lebenskünstler" into English and you will see that I actually used French words, but I think Touche à tout sounds great.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 07:03:16 am by ipofanes »
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